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777kicksass
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NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:50 am

I know that NW have ordered a333s to replace their DC-10s but are they oredering the a321 to replace the 727s? Are they replacing DC-9s with a320s? Are they replacing the classic jumbos with a340-600s? Any plans to replace 744s with a340-600s?

Sorry about all the questions, I have just lost track of things!!

Thanks
 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:54 am

They're not replacing the 744s, they even ordered a pair of 744 when they announced the orders for 333/752/753
 
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STT757
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:58 am

They ordered some A330's to replace DC-10-30s,18 757-300's to replace the DC-10-40 and ordered two more 747-400s.

They're not retiring the 747-400s,they're actually adding two more.

No A321's,whatever A320's they still might have on order are to replace 727s. They still might have some 757-200's coming in as well.

The DC-9 fleet replacement is still up in the air,although the 717 has to be the favorite.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FLY DC JETS
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:08 am

NW is highly unlikely to operate the A340-500/600 due to the RR engines that power the aircraft. Northwest has never purchased an engine from Rolls-Royce and in their recent orders have continued their predicted preference for Pratt and Whitney engines.

The RR engines that power the 717 make it a tougher sell to NW as well. If the PW6000 were offered on the 717, I'd say the relationship between PW and NW would make this combination the clear favorite. However, I would say that if the replacement decision were to be made tomorrow, I would go to the Airbus product in my opinion.
 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:12 am

I see more 744s replaceing the 742s.
-Tom
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:19 am

Here's something to throw out for discussion. Perhaps as a DC9 replacement Nw will order the RJX family of a/c. These are better suited for shorter and frequent flights than the 318 is designed for. When NW finishes the purchase of Mesaba, there are talks that Mesaba will be merged into Express. With this, operating CRJs and ARjs may not make sense. So, NW could take back the Avros and build that fleet with the RJX fleet to replace the DC9s. It has also been said by the #1 man at mesaba that CRJs in Mesabas fleet are a very soon possibility. These are independant from the extra CRjs that haven't been allocated to Express. Remember NW has many options on the CRjs above and beyond the 57 is has on order now. SO!! This could be an intersting time for NW and its Airlink affiliates. Also, there is an Avro sim in the making for Mesaba to go with the 2 Saab sims that will go in the new training facility in Eagan.

As far as the other fleet... the 319/320 family is replacing the 727s and the 753 the DC10-40, the 333 the DC10-30, nothing to replace the 747s and there will be 12 DC10-30 retained for HNL.

My 2 cents.

AZJ
 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:24 am

I am pretty sure the DC9 replacement will be announced in the next year or so and it will be either the A318 or 717. There are pluses and minuses to both, but I think the A318 may have the edge because of fleet commonality. NW policy is apparently to retire the aircraft at 100,000 cycles and if any approach that right now they are being replaced by A319s.

There is no 747-200 replacement yet, but these planes with brand new interiors still have a lot of flying left in them.

The DC10-30 replacement is the A330-300.

The DC10-40 replacement is the 757-300 on most routes and on high density routes the newest DC10-30s will be kept for a while.

The 727-200s are being phased out with A319/A320s over the next year or so.

Over the next couple of years the NW fleet will be:

747-400s
747-200s
A330-300s
DC10-30s
757-200/300s
A319/A320
DC9-30/40/50 (I think the -10s will be gone pretty soon)

A couple of years further down the track and I think the NW fleet will be:

747-400s
A340-600 (replace the 747-200)
A330-300s (more ordered to retire the last DC10-30s)
757-200/300s
A318 (replace the DC9-30)/A319 (replace the DC9-40/50)/A320.


 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:28 am

I think everyone is forgetting that NW just spent big $$$ to have a large portion of thier -9 fleet overhauled. Im talking torn down and built back up again. I don't see the -9s going anywhere for awhile.
-Tom
 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:35 am

I don't either but I know NW is retiring them as they get to 100,000 cycles so they won't be around for too much longer. I love the DC9 and from a passenger standpoint who doesn't know a 717 from a DC9, NW DC9 could pass for 717s because they have been completely rebuilt.
 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:38 am

Who knows if Airbus wants to get an order from NW for the A340-500/600, they may offer them a P&W 4000 series engine on it. If this happens you may see airlines that are equipped with other P&W 4000 series powered aircraft order the A340-500/600.
 
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STT757
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 11:31 am

I think a Pratt powered 777 would be better,only two engines.

Of course there's a strong possibility that if the US/UAL merger goes through there will further consolidation of the industry,and the only remaining partners for NW are all Boeing customers.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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Here's A Point:

Wed Mar 28, 2001 11:37 am

Wait a minute, something just occurred to me. Northwest likes Pratt engines. So do I, big deal. But here's the kicker: Northwest has A320 and 319 in their fleet already. Now, the A318 will be powered by PRATT ENGINES. So, since they like the Airbusses AND the Pratts, why would they order a 717 (my favorite aircraft by the way) with Rolls engines?

Just an observation.

Randy
 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 12:20 pm

NORTHWEST AIRLINES SUCKS! CONTINENTAL AIRLINES RULES THE WORLD.



 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 1:04 pm

If you had read some other posts you would know that we (NW or Co fans) have basically agreed to not bash eachothers favorite airline as we realize the importance of the alliance with all the industry consolidation. Please refrain from such immature comments in the future.

Thanks

LONG LIVE NW/CO  Smile
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 1:47 pm

As of right now, rumor has it within the airline that the whenever the replacement is named, the 777 (i am not sure which series...i imagine the 300) will replace the 747-200s. I am not sure whether or not the A340 500 or 600 are in consideration..i have heard no talk of the 340s, only 777s and 747-400s.

THey have no plans in replaceing the DC-9s for quite a while....they DC-9s are in great shape and have just been majorly overhauled who knows what the replacement will be. As of right now there are no plans to get the A318 or 717.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
MAC_Veteran
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RE: NWA 747-400

Wed Mar 28, 2001 1:55 pm

NWA747-400

If NWA opts for the A340-600, if RR remains the sole engine supplier for it, will NWA bite? If the only impediment is the cost of adding a new engine supplier, then I tend to believe they will, for NWA prefers 3 and 4 engined aircraft on the Trans Pacific routing.

Mel Ott is a retired 747-400 pilot and has (or -had-) a site on AVSIM.Com that dealt with his real life experiences working with NWA. Captain Tarmack is hios nickname. He's a hell of a guy!

He told me in a forum message posted there that NWA's strategy of choosing aircraft was mostly directed at the most safety and systems redundant aircraft possible, which explains why they operate the 747-200 for so long and why they continued with the -400 and employed the DC-10 for much longer than other carriers. I got the impression that with this strategy in mind, NWA will that likely remain a 3-4 engined aircraft operator over the Pacific.

He even detailed why NWA never ordered the 737 (indeed..the rudder system was why and they knew of the potential for problems a -long- time ago). Explains why they stuck with the 727 and ordered them well into the 1970s.

It showed to me that they are very conservative and cautious when it comes to procuring a new fleet types. It will be interesting to see what they go for when the 742's time is up.

Regards
MAC

 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Wed Mar 28, 2001 2:43 pm

I honestly don't think they will go for the 777 seeings how they passed it up for the A330.

Unless boeing puts together a nice package on 777-300s and 717s??

I think fleet commonality is very important to NW more so than engine types, and a s a loyal airbus customer I could even see airbus coming up with a PW engine just to lure NW business....
 
MAC_Veteran
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RE: NWA 747-400

Wed Mar 28, 2001 2:53 pm

The PW engine offering does make sense and a possibility PW could easily jump into given their yearning to get a leg up in the market. They build incredible engines. The combination of a PW and RR choice for the A340NG would be a -huge- boon to that aircraft program. If Airbus accomodated Air France with the CFM56 on the A318, they could do the same for PW and Northwest here as well.

Regards
MAC
 
gnx99
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DC-9s

Wed Mar 28, 2001 3:28 pm

"Universal Avionics' MFD-640 Multi-Function Display Received STC for Northwest Airlines' DC-9 Fleet Retrofit"

http://www.uasc.com/marketing/news.asp
-or-
http://www.uasc.com/marketing/newsdetail.asp?newsid=33

Although I wish they (DC-9s) were gone years ago, this doesn't suggest NW is getting rid of them any time soon.
 
Guest

RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 3:09 am

Just think if Airbus offers a P&W 4000 series engine on the A340-500/600, it will lure A330 and maybe other aircraft (747, 767, & 777), operators with P&W 4000 series engines to order the aircraft to share engine commonality.
 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 3:53 am

The DC9s will be around at least until 2005 when the TAWS must be in all aircraft so that is probably why NW is installing them.

I think the DC9s will eventually go around 2007 at the latest.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 5:13 am

If NW was going to replace their 747-200 fleet completely, buying the 747-400 series may not be such a bad idea, especially considering that flights to Asia tend to be full most of the year.  Smile

But I think NW should consider buying 20-25 747-400ER's so they could fly MSP-HKG or DTW-HKG non-stop with no payload restrictions on a year-round basis. That way, NW won't have to pay a premium for the 747X series, nor will they have to pay through the nose for the A380 series.
 
ScottB
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 6:45 am

NWA's published fleet plans include 210 DC-9's through the end of 2005 - they're retiring a grand total of *10* between now and then. Coincidentally (or not so coincidentally), that's how many DC9-10's they currently fly as well.

Even if they were to retire 50 DC-9's per year annually (and that's a VERY aggressive plan), the 9's would still be in the fleet until at least 2009 or 2010. As for replacement of the 747-200's, that's anyone's best guess. After all, a desire to maintain 3- or 4-engine aircraft would have dictated selection of the A340-300 instead of the A330-300. Several years down the road, Northwest will be in a better position to evaluate the track records of all their options.

I'd respectfully disagree with anyone who thought that Northwest should undertake any large-scale Asia-Pacific expansion at this point; since the Asian economic crisis (actually since October '96) they've only made money in the Pacific in two quarters - 97Q3 and 99Q3.
 
nwa747-400
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RE: NW Fleet Modernisation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:06 am

NW operates 171 DC9s.

8 of which are -10s.

MDouglass has tested the DC9 up to 200,000 cycles and NW plans to operate them to 100,00 cycles. The -10s are getting fairly close to that at around 35 years of age. Most of the -30s are about 28-30 years old now no they will probably be gone witihn 5 years. I think the -40/-50 are alittle newer so they could be around for alittle longer.

The 747-200s may have an average age of 21, but there are some that are fairly young.

I don't think NW is planning any major expansion to Asia anytime very soon. They are beefing up service from MSP to twice daily and I think they are adding more DTW frequencies, but certainly no major expansion plans.

By 2005 NW will have something like 65% new generation aircraft vs. the 45% currently (as reported in a press conference) With more and more new aircraft coming in after 2005 that number of new generation aircraft will continue to grow until the DC9s are gone.

The average fleet age of NW aircraft other than the DC9 is about 11 years (again from a NW press conference)

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