Smoking In Cockpit? - See This!

dee-see-eit · Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:08 pm

Hi guys,

on most of the flights smoking is forbidden. I think that most of the companies do also tell pilots not to smoke in the cockpit.

Look at this pic:

Click for large version

Photo © Marlo Plate

If you look closer, you will see a box of a known brand on the center console near the F/O.

Question:

- Do you think its OK that pilots smoke if its forbidden for the passengers?

- If there are pilots here: Is it common that pilots smoke in cockpit?

Regards
DC8

SPRINGBOK · Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:01 pm

WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!!
This should not be allowed for any smokeaholics, especially pilots, what if they dropped their cigarrette on to the panel, hundreds of peoples lives at risk!!!
I hope this practise is not carried out by pilots, or if it is something should be done.
SPRINGBOK

sushka · Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:10 pm

Even thouh I dont like smoking I think it is a good thing because they fly all day and if they don't feed their addiction they can start do weird stuff like start shaking and that could be even worse!
I have seen Pilots and flight attendants smoking on Samara Airlines and Aeroflot before.

Fly-K · Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:48 pm

I'm afraid it still happens more often than we'd like it to. Some pilots may think it's "their" aircraft and are not bound to any rule. It's probably also fiercly discussed among crews.

Konstantin

jwenting · Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:58 pm

smoking is not allowed in public areas, the cockpit is not a public area... (this according to EU regs, I know in the US the rules are different).
Also, IB does not (to the best of my knowledge) have a non-smoking policy. In Spain a lot of people smoke (more than in many other countries) and such a policy would not sit well with their homemarket.

dee-see-eit · Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:32 pm

Jwenting,

IB has a non-smoking policy on all their flights (after a very long debate with their pilots...)!

You are right that in Spain many people smoke, but if the pax can stand a 8 or 10 hours flight, why not the crew?

DC8 Smokin cool

G-CIVP · Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:36 pm

Well, despite the fact there is a pack of cigs. on flight deck, no-one is actually in the act of smoking them.

BelugaBoy · Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:47 pm

That is also possible, right now there is a pack of sigarettes on my desk too but I don't smoke inside this building since that is not allowed.
If you took a picture of my desk, am I violating that rule ? In my opinion not.

TonyBurr · Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:49 pm

Get real! Outragged! A lot worse could happen. I am glad that 1) the package in the center was a "cigarette" brand and not something else, and 2) they were not holding a drink

As to the comment that they might drop the cigarette and burn the plane up, are you for real? Do you remember the 'years" that pilots ( and passengers) smoked in planes. Planes were not "dropping" out of the skies due to cigarettes burning the planes up.

Another example of smoker bashing

If you want to find real problems in the world, just look around you. This is not one of them!

PS I do not smoke

mightyfalcon · Wed Jun 27, 2001 10:08 pm

I would agree with BelugaBoy saying that a packet of cigarettes doesn' prove the pilots are smoking in the cockpit.

Maybe they're going outside the plane in turn to have a puff and then without breaking any rule! Laugh out loud

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Airbus_A340 · Wed Jun 27, 2001 10:15 pm

Hello, interesting discussion.
If smoking is not allowed in the flightdeck why is the pack of fags on the pedestal in the first place, shouldn't it be inside the pilots bag or something, it's not going to be much use there.

Anything can happen when it comes to fire, we may know that smoking was allowed before, but many more lives are at risk and there are more planes flying now, like i said fire can do anything.
Look at this Airbus A340, I'm sure it wasn't from a cigaret or it was flying (thank God), but it shows what a fire can do.

Click for large version

Photo © Guido Latz

Anyways, my opinion, I don't think pilots should smoke in the cockpit.

Cheers
Trevor
http://www.the-wu.org/projectairbus

Greg · Wed Jun 27, 2001 10:20 pm

hey...let 'em smoke.
i don't want a nervous pilot in command on my aircraft.
although i don't condone smoking, i don't think there have been and accidents or deaths due to crew smoking.
and no, don't start all these posts about cigs in the toilets and garbage..were talking about 'crew'.

VgnAtl747 · Wed Jun 27, 2001 10:40 pm

Just cause they were there doesn't mean he was smoking. Maybe he removed them from his pocket before sitting down.

turbulence · Wed Jun 27, 2001 10:56 pm

I won't enter in if snoking is permitted in the cockpit or not, because I don't know. Neither if it is a public place or not, because I guess it is not. But it is a working place (like an office) and I perfectly know that in most offices, public and private in EU, and in all (or almost) in the US, it is forbidden for sure.

Then, in a feed-back to Dee-see-eit, I certify that Iberia, although after a strong debate on whether ban it or not, finally banned smoking on board, and was not of the latest european lines to do it.

What I can certify, though, is that I've been in several flight decks of Iberia, Spanair, Olympic Airways and other european companies, and I am not able to recall one only occasion where one or both of the pilots were not smoking. Not only this: in one of the Iberia cockpit, not only BOTH of them were smoking: they even offered a cigarette to me, despite the non-smoking policy.

Best turbulences

KUGN · Wed Jun 27, 2001 11:06 pm

Hey, how does this go along with Euro argument for cleaner enviroment? Is cockpit part of an enviroment too? Wink/being sarcastic

Btw, is there a picture of their bookshelf; perhaps we can see what kind of booze they have on board. Somethings on long hauls unusall things happen sometimes -- like pregnant passanger gives a birth to a baby, and that has to be celebrated (in such case hopefully they won't smoke around the baby) with a champaign or glass of Scotch...

174thfwff · Wed Jun 27, 2001 11:40 pm

The pilots have alot of stress. Also they are just going to step out on the wing to light up, so they aren't going to bother any other passengers. I would much rather see them smoking a cigar though! I am only 16 and I smoke a cigar now and then. I know smoking is bad, but a nice cigar is wonderful!
LoL, I would love to see a captian who smokes with those "patches" all over his face and stuff becasue they aren't allowed to smoke in the airplane in the usa. You know those patches that help you quit? Well he would have them all over his body and stuff to get the amount of niciatene (sp) into his or her body. LOL

KUGN · Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:07 am

Well, if you want to see pilot smoking a cigar during a takeoff (!!!), just rent Airport 2 with captain/flying pilot Charlton Heston.

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:17 am

100% agreed with Airbus_A340.

174thfwff · Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:45 am

I wouldn't prefer anyone smoking, but I hate cigerettes

a380 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:02 am

Well from that photo alone, I had no evidence of the pilots smoking onboard.

B747-437B · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:32 am

Crew DO smoke in the cockpit all the time. You have to be kidding yourself if you think a chainsmoker (which a lot of airline crew qualify as) can go a longhaul flight without lighting up. It all depends on the PIC of course, but if he says ok then the cockpit can tend to become somewhat of a smoking lounge.

Boeing727 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:41 am

If you look very closely @ the picture, you will realize the effect smoking has on crew members: It puts them to sleep!!! Both are napping in my opinion looking at the picture.

Boeing727

456 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:55 am

I do not see any problem:
- When nobody in the cockpit disagree with the fact that there will be smoking, nobody has to say something about it (maybe they both smoke, so they can join eachother) When they constantly are concentrating, a cigarette can be used as a sort of drug (a sort of ??? Big grin

) so they can concentrate for some hours again.
- When they drop their ashes in a sort of tray, and not on the ground, they will not fill their workplace in filth. And IF they drop (i smoke, even in a car sometimes, and the chance is very small, but ok: even the smallest chances are too high in aviation) it will fall on the ground, and that is not a wooden floor i hope.

Ugh... I deserve a cigarette Big grin

And yes, i am trying to stop, its a disgusting habit

DL_Mech · Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:27 am

I think you should go after the airlines that allow Alcohol in the cockpit first.....and then worry about smoking........

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:36 am

I propose that smokers should not able to become pilots. One day this pathetic addiction will exist only in history books. As for the picture, someone should use it to submit a comlaint to the airline.

456 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:56 am

CYKA> Because of a cigarette package on a console??? Because of a picture on a website???

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:05 am

.......you bet.

456 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:21 am

Mkay

Well, you can ask Iberia (but who says IT IS Iberia, besides the photo taker) what the policy is, and how it will observed.
But i doubt if Iberia will take further steps to sue this F/O.

goingboeing · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:42 am

CYKA - do you ever drink an alcoholic beverage? I abhor them, and I think that anyone who's ever had a glass of wine over dinner shouldn't be allowed to become a pilot.

Do you like to eat meat? Meat clogs arteries and causes heart attacks. I find that to be repulsive, and I think that meat eaters shouldn't be allowed to become pilots.

Ever have sex? I find that sexually transmitted diseases are disgusting, and the only people who get them have had sex. I think that nobody who has ever had sex should be allowed to be a pilot.

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:52 am

The first 2 yes. The third one, well not yet. Eating meat and drinking(whatever it might be) are nesseseties of life. Inhaling smoke is not. I just really hate smoking because my mom smokes and I fear she will die of cancer prematurely. So if you exclude smokers from certain jobs and activites, not as many people will start in the first place which will in the long run eliminate this epedemic forever.

One thing puzzles me, with all the reasearch and proof that smoking degrades the quality of a physical life and causes countless cancers; why do people continue to get addicted?

456 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:59 am

GoingBoeing> HAHAHAHA LoL... Luckily i have a reason then why i am not a pilot Big grin

CYKA> It is off-topic, but: It is the choice of a human being to smoke, and to risk some diseases. I live in Holland, and EVERYONE is aware of the fact that you have a greater CHANCE that you will get c*ncer. ...

But my old man says: Live is as your nose, take everything out of it whats in it.

Please on topic again: Smoking in Cockpit?

777boy · Thu Jun 28, 2001 8:47 am

Uh, just a question. If someone stepped onto the wing (fuel close) or even anywhere on the tarmac, wouldn't there be a strong risk of catching more fuel and lighting a huge fire? I thought that smoking was prohibited on the ramp, at least in the US. Don't know about smoking in the cockpit, but I assume that all US airlines would prohibit it.

Matt

IFlyADesk · Thu Jun 28, 2001 9:15 am

I have been in many smoking cockpits over the years and there are several deciding factors that must be considered.

I have NEVER ridden in a jumpseat on a non-smoking passenger airline when ANYBODY lit-up in the cockpit. That could cause a riot on board if passengers smelled cig smoke and started raising hell.

On airlines where smoking is allowed, it is normally up to the discretion of the Captain. If the CAPTAIN smokes, ANYBODY can smoke, and usually does. However, if the Captain is a non-smoker, chances are that he may not permit it.

Freighters are another story. If you must smoke, go back behind the cockpit and do it.

Then there are a few Asian airlines where smoking is generally accepted. On THOSE airlines, the gear comes-up and the cigs get lit (sometimes sooner), for hours and hours on end.

Cockpits are smaller than you think, however the airflow does an amazing job of circulating the air, ridding the cockpit of smoke. The real stench is when the small ashtrays fill-up and they start using half-drinken coffee cups for butt-depositories.

Talk about non-smoking pilots? Alaska Airlines has a 100% ban on employee smoking REGARDLESS of what job you have. They refer to any applicant as "a
non-user of nicotine products"...

AerLingus · Thu Jun 28, 2001 10:45 am

It probably makes the non-smoking cockpit crew upset. After all, they can't crack open a window!

ha2vegas · Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:15 pm

I can't believe I read the whooooole thing.

ILOVEA340 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:51 pm

Airline should hand out patches before flights...

hkniceguy · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:26 pm

Airline pilots are professional!!!! do you see stuff smoking in law court? or a bus driver light a cigarettes while driving down the hightway???, is extremely dangerous, what if those cockpit instrument start to overheat? they won't know rather the smell of smoke come from thier cigarettes or instrument!! although I'm a smoker too.... but I don't think pilots should smoke when they're on duty!!!!!!

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:37 pm

Please inform me how a ciggy can effect the safety of the flight, or make the pilots any worse?
Iain

myself · Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:50 pm

INTOLERANCE kills more people than cigarettes.
Stop treating smokers as if they are criminals.

strickerje · Thu Jun 28, 2001 4:01 pm

This is definately a controversial topic, and my guess would be that it will be divided between smokers and non-smokers. And as just another passenger, I will deposit my two cents.

First of all, I must agree with AerLingus's comment, as my grandmother smokes heavily, and whenever I visit her small, unventilated apartment, I almost cannot breathe at first. If I were to become an airline pilot, which I hope to do one day, I certainly would not want, as a non-smoker, to enter a smoky cockpit. Many of you have said that smoking keeps the pilots who smoke from having a nervous breakdown, which I agree is true for many heavy smokers, but this works both ways: a smoky cockpit would adversely affect my ability to fly the aircraft.

However, in the end, it should be the individual airlines' decisions, as they own the aircraft (most of them, anyway) and have the right to regulate their use. The FAA should not be able to prohibit smoking in the cockpit just as AAA cannot prohibit you from smoking in your car. After all, it is your property.

-Jeffrey S.
Jackson, MS

il75 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 4:20 pm

Just dropping the issue of wheter the crew on the pic smoked or will smoke in the cockpit... and leaving aside the question about how dangerous it is... I think we are missing an important point here when talking about pilots smoking while on duty.

If Iberia has a rule baning smoking in cockpits the rule should be complied with. I certainly do not want crews breaking any rules because they do not share them or think these rules are stupid. It seriously damages discipline and it is not a professional behaviour that enhances safety onboard.

Regards
Erico

ILUV767 · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:37 pm

Smoking in cockpits...BAD! Why? The reason is simple. Long term damage to the control serfaces in the cockpit, from the residue(sp?) from the smoke.

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:52 pm

I love the idea of posting a picture of a burned out A340 to prove how dangerous fire is. But do you not think that its a little bit out of context?

This picture and discussion shows yet another reason why passengers should NOT be allowed into the flight deck, especially with a camera.

Guest · Thu Jun 28, 2001 7:52 pm

I've seen a movie about the introduction of the A340 in Lufthansas fleet where the pilot was smoking a cigar inflight.
No biggie I guess.

B737-700

slawko · Thu Jun 28, 2001 8:22 pm

Click for large version

Greg · Thu Jun 28, 2001 11:26 pm

slawko..
could you explain to the forum how the pilots were smoking in the AFT lavatory during approach?

We made it clear at the beginning of the thread we were discussing 'crew' smoking in the cockpit...not passengers smoking...

airsicknessbag · Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:24 am

>>This plane crashed because the crew were smoking.

This is not correct. It is not clear why the fire started. An electrical fault is cited as possible cause as well.

Back to the original topic: there´s nothing to discuss about; there are three alternatives.
1) The airline (=employer) bans employee smoking at the work place;
2) There´s legislation ordering work places to be smoke free;
3) There´s legislation that every employee is entitled to a smoke free work place, and the non smoking pilot exercises that right.

Unless one of those situations occurrs, it´s completely OK for a pilot to smoke; the pax won´t even notice.

When I was jumpseating at Lufthansa once (not as passenger, but as an intern), the captain (!) asked (!!) me (!!!) politely whether I´d mind if he smoked - of course I didn´t - with a little tolerance from both sides life´s much more smooth, don´t you agree?

Daniel Smile

SAETA · Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:33 am

Well, if I am correct, Federal Regulations stipulate that smoking is not allowed in the cabin, but says nothing about the cockpit. However, my employer forbids smoking in the 'pit as well, although this is sometimes ignored by pilots and flight attendants alike, especially the older,senior pilots. Basically the attitude is, if the non-smoking first officer does not object, smoking is usually not a problem.
As for the pack of Marlboro's on the pedestal...well, I have seen pilots just smell the open pack just to satisfy their urge!

Squigee · Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:04 am

There is a story that still circulates in the discussions at the airport here. It goes:

There was a guy who was about to take his first solo flight from Drumheller to Calgary. He had already done the trip there OK and was preparing for the trip back. His flight instructor knew that he was a smoker, and during his lessons, he always reminded his student never to smoke in the cockpit. Sure enough, about half an hour into the flight, he had the craving, and decided that since he was in the plane alone, no one would ever know. So, he light up. Just then, he hit a patch of rought air, and the plane shot up, shaking the cig out of his hand. He was so busy regaining flight level that he didn't notice where the cigarette fell. Thinking quickly, he decided that instead of looking around for it and risking an accident, or leaving it alone and risking a fire, he would... declare and emergency! So he radioed in an emergency, and landed in a farmers field. It took a week before the NavCanada guys went out there and re-certified the plane. They couldn't believe the reason for the crash landing.

So it goes to show, if you're gonna smoke in the 'pit, make sure you have a co-pilot to keep an eye on where the cigarette falls.

Squigee

BOEING747-700 · Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:05 am

Well I for one will never be a smoker. I have never smoked anything in my life and I will keep it that way. Why would any pilot do that? They not only put their life on the line but they will also put their job on it too. Those medical requirements are hard enough to pass for a non smoker!!!

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