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rajincajun01
Topic Author
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AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:47 pm

AA has released a new rule effective tomorrow that states any passenger who holds two separate tickets cannot have their checked bag sent to their final destination without leaving security and rechecking the bag. This includes AA to AA flights and AA to One World carriers.

Not sure the reasoning behind this. This will cause many fliers headaches and not benefit the carrier very much financially. They slow continue to find ways to lose their loyal fliers.
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IPFreely
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:02 pm

The only reason I can see is that before they charged passengers $25 to check a bag to their final destination. Now they can charge $25 to take your bag to your connecting airport and another $25 to take it to your final destination.
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:11 pm

This also discourages buying un-married segment tickets, which sometimes can be a trick to get cheaper pricing.
 
SmithAir747
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:11 pm

AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.

I liked the options (with their escalating scale of benefits), especially Choice Essential, where I could bundle a checked bag into the fare instead of paying separately for a bag. Now the single option for Main Cabin--Choice--does not allow bundling, so any checked bags will be charged separately at check-in. There is also no escalating scale of benefits.

SmithAir747
Last edited by SmithAir747 on Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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HPRamper
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:12 pm

I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.
 
zkncj
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:15 pm

AA's latest attempt to lose customers


Don't really think it will lose them to many customers - some airlines have been doing it for the last 10 years and they are some of the most profitable airlines.

When the airline accepts your bag, they just take liability for it to the final destination that they tagged it to. Connecting baggage is an risk, why take an risk?
 
rta
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:24 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.


I still see those options.

HPRamper wrote:
I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.


Maybe used miles for one leg, and cash for another. Sometimes buying a connection separately might be cheaper as well.

Either way, this ends up hurting the consumer. Fascinating how airlines adapted technology with industry wide commonality to make travel seamless, only to thwart such efforts by creating these kinds of policies.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:32 pm

rta wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.


I still see those options.

HPRamper wrote:
I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.


Maybe used miles for one leg, and cash for another. Sometimes buying a connection separately might be cheaper as well.

Either way, this ends up hurting the consumer. Fascinating how airlines adapted technology with industry wide commonality to make travel seamless, only to thwart such efforts by creating these kinds of policies.

Miles is one reason (have done it) but also had situation where I rerouted due to work & it was cheaper to delay the last leg of my return flight from vacation & route myself out of the hub to the destination for work.
1.4mm and counting...
 
rajincajun01
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:40 pm

This doesn't increase revenue for say a passenger who books AA from RDU-ORD and then on Royal Jordanian from ORD-AMM on a separate ticket. It just discourages the customer from looking due to the possibility of misconnecting due to long security lines.

On top of that, this undermines the airlines' attempt to shorten security lines by adding more screenings that would not be necessary without the rule change.
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AAlaxfan
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:51 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.

I liked the options (with their escalating scale of benefits), especially Choice Essential, where I could bundle a checked bag into the fare instead of paying separately for a bag. Now the single option for Main Cabin--Choice--does not allow bundling, so any checked bags will be charged separately at check-in. There is also no escalating scale of benefits.

SmithAir747

They were there 2 minutes ago when I tried a dummy booking.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
777PHX
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:49 pm

HPRamper wrote:
I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.


I can think of a number of reasons. Maybe they're marrying two tickets together because it's cheaper than one ticket combined. Maybe they're positioning to an airport where they'll be departing on a mileage ticket, etc.

zkncj wrote:
Don't really think it will lose them to many customers - some airlines have been doing it for the last 10 years and they are some of the most profitable airlines.


Sort of similar, but I know from personal experience that HA stopped taking interlined bags from flights on other airlines from the mainland to Hawaii. Of course, they're more than happy to interline them for you going the other direction because they're the one that gets to collect the baggage fees.
 
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vhtje
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:53 pm

My understanding is that this is actually the implementation of a new oneworld policy.

Read some more information about it here: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... rotection/

and here: http://www.ausbt.com.au/oneworld-airlin ... ng-flights

and here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/america ... olicy.html

I am scratching my head to understand why oneworld has done this. As you can see above, the various Frequent Flyer forums are burning with angry loyal oneworld customers who are and will be hugely inconvenienced by this change (including yours truly). What benefit does this change bring the carriers?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
mozart
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:25 pm

rta wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.


I still see those options.


So do I
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:27 pm

vhtje wrote:
I am scratching my head to understand why oneworld has done this. As you can see above, the various Frequent Flyer forums are burning with angry loyal oneworld customers who are and will be hugely inconvenienced by this change (including yours truly). What benefit does this change bring the carriers?


I can't speak for the availability of "split" mileage and dollar bookings across OneWorld, but it seems to me that this is the only category that is potentially problematic. As I understand it, I can book BNA-ORD on AA stock and ORD-AMM on RJ stock and still get the "through" benefits provided it's all on a single PNR.
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grbauc
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:31 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.

I liked the options (with their escalating scale of benefits), especially Choice Essential, where I could bundle a checked bag into the fare instead of paying separately for a bag. Now the single option for Main Cabin--Choice--does not allow bundling, so any checked bags will be charged separately at check-in. There is also no escalating scale of benefits.

SmithAir747


This really better be a oversight why give options and not the ability to book them.
 
coolian2
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:32 pm

Basically they've lost $1 and are prepared to lose $25 more to save it.
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vhtje
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:02 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
I can't speak for the availability of "split" mileage and dollar bookings across OneWorld, but it seems to me that this is the only category that is potentially problematic. As I understand it, I can book BNA-ORD on AA stock and ORD-AMM on RJ stock and still get the "through" benefits provided it's all on a single PNR.


Yes but how can you get separate tickets on the same PNR?

Plans change. Say, in July, I plan a trip to New York for Christmas. I keep an eye out and in September find AA offering a killer deal in Business to JFK, so I book a flight, returning in mid-January. However, in November it transpires that Christmas is going to be instead hosted by the in-laws in England. No problem. I call AA and try and change my booking. No dice - the deal is too good; no refunds, no changes. Okay, so instead I make a new booking JFK <> LHR on BA, which I book in November. I time this to connect with my inbound flight from AA from SFO. I do the same on the return.

So I now have one 001- ticket (AA) connecting to a 125- ticket on BA.

Previously I could show my two bookings at check-in at SFO, and my bags would be checked through to LHR. Now, I have to collect my bags upon arrival in Terminal 8 in JFK, schlepp them myself to terminal 7, and then recheck them with BA. I face the reverse upon my return in January.

oneworld needs to rethink this ridiculous new policy. Hopefully the outcry will cause them to do so, and soon.
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Cubsrule
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:18 am

vhtje wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I can't speak for the availability of "split" mileage and dollar bookings across OneWorld, but it seems to me that this is the only category that is potentially problematic. As I understand it, I can book BNA-ORD on AA stock and ORD-AMM on RJ stock and still get the "through" benefits provided it's all on a single PNR.


Yes but how can you get separate tickets on the same PNR?


With a travel agent or OTA . . .

vhtje wrote:
Plans change. Say, in July, I plan a trip to New York for Christmas. I keep an eye out and in September find AA offering a killer deal in Business to JFK, so I book a flight, returning in mid-January. However, in November it transpires that Christmas is going to be instead hosted by the in-laws in England. No problem. I call AA and try and change my booking. No dice - the deal is too good; no refunds, no changes. Okay, so instead I make a new booking JFK <> LHR on BA, which I book in November. I time this to connect with my inbound flight from AA from SFO. I do the same on the return.


You aren't going to like this answer, but people with this sort of booking behavior are not AA's target customer.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:31 am

I have had seperate tickets a few times, not on AA, but I've done it on DL a few times and the reason it usually happens for me is because of booking adjacent trips - usually business & personal trips.

Example -
I booked a DTW-DEN roundtrip on DL for personal travel well in advance.
A business trip came up and I needed to do DTW-BOS roundtrip. I timed by BOS-DTW return flight to arrive prior to my DTW-DEN flight that was previously booked.
I basically did DTW-BOS-DTW-DEN-DTW, but on 2 seperate tickets, booked for seperate purposes, and through different payment types.
I had to check bags, and I wanted in BOS to check a bag BOS-DTW-DEN across two different tickets.

I wasn't trying to scam anyone or do anything wrong, but trying to do something logical.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:39 am

Like anyone needs an excuse not to fly AA. They're hopeless on just about every level. With more and more competition the desire to fly them gets less and less.
Most airlines have that process for separate tickets on other carriers, but most still allow through-check on their own metal. I think only the carriers like FR are identical to AA. If you don't check a bag it changes nothing however f you webcheck in for both flights
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michman
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:50 am

AAlaxfan wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
AA have also removed their booking categories (Choice, Choice Plus, Choice Essential, Fully Flexible, and Business/First) from their website recently, reducing the options to two--Choice and First.

I liked the options (with their escalating scale of benefits), especially Choice Essential, where I could bundle a checked bag into the fare instead of paying separately for a bag. Now the single option for Main Cabin--Choice--does not allow bundling, so any checked bags will be charged separately at check-in. There is also no escalating scale of benefits.

SmithAir747

They were there 2 minutes ago when I tried a dummy booking.



Try booking flights beyond November.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:54 am

If this is in response to a customer being able to book a cheaper fare by buying two separate tickets... I imagine AA's aim is to rid themselves of said passengers... Customers like this have zero loyalty.
 
scorpy
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:03 am

This is important for international travellers, a group that AA state they want to attract. I do this all the time on UA, and this is just another reason not to fly AA.

Consider the following - i take 3-4 trips to the USA every year for work. For cost reasons, intercontinental tickets must be approved by CEO or President. (takes time) So once i have my main reason to travel to the USA i book my ticket, usually to the companies usa HQ. However, while i am there i take advantage of the opportunity to schedule meetings with key customers and partners. These are not normally confirmed until a week or so before i leave, sometimes even later. These domestic trips can be approved by a department head (me in this case) so i can arrange the schedule on the fly. i'll usually end up with an international ticket and separate 3-4 domestic tickets. Last time i went last minute to see a key partner in omaha, and ua was able to check my bag OMA-DEN-LAX-SYD, with OMA-DEN being on one ticket and the rest on my original international ticket.

To the point made by one poster, while at this company the travel is coach, the tickets are not cheap and i used a similar strategy at my last company where flights over 10hrs were biz class. At that time often $12-15k tickets.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:47 am

Why doesn't AA fly the 73G?
 
billreid
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:34 am

I have done this multiple times on same and different airlines. Origination destination pricing on many international tickets is cheaper when broken up.

If OneWorld had half a brain they would just charge the bag fee twice.

But as a million miler I don't get charged bag fees so this is designed as a way to prevent or inconvenience me into rechecking. If the airline is real smart they will make the connection times impossible too.

So if I was AA I would justimplement a $100,000 connection fee to thier most loyal customers, that would solve the problem.
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luv2cattlecall
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:56 am

Cubsrule wrote:
vhtje wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I can't speak for the availability of "split" mileage and dollar bookings across OneWorld, but it seems to me that this is the only category that is potentially problematic. As I understand it, I can book BNA-ORD on AA stock and ORD-AMM on RJ stock and still get the "through" benefits provided it's all on a single PNR.


Yes but how can you get separate tickets on the same PNR?


With a travel agent or OTA . . .

vhtje wrote:
Plans change. Say, in July, I plan a trip to New York for ChristdChristdmasmas. I keep an eye out and in September find AA offering a killer deal in Business to JFK, so I book a flight, returning in mid-January. However, in November it transpires that Christmas is going to be instead hosted by the in-laws in England. No problem. I call AA and try and change my booking. No dice - the deal is too good; no refunds, no changes. Okay, so instead I make a new booking JFK <> LHR on BA, which I book in November. I time this to connect with my inbound flight from AA from SFO. I do the same on the return.


You aren't going to like this answer, but people with this sort of booking behavior are not AA's target customer.


Unless they are averaging 100% load factors, better to make a few hundred in marginal revenue off of someone than to worry about every pax meeting the "target customer" criteria.
 
chrisair
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:22 am

HPRamper wrote:
I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.


Used to do it all the time on WN to force connections that weren't published. Routings were sometimes a little weird, but total trip time would wind up being less, which always made my life better when commuting out of TUS. Also it was the only way to get to DAL. Used to have to book XXX-ABQ/Texas--DAL on two separate tix.

And with AA, it's often cheaper--way cheaper--to do this. This week: PHX-LAX: $36, LAX-SEA: $110. PHX-LAX-SEA (same flights) $1,050. PHX-SEA (nonstop) $179, but limited availability (two flights on Tuesday).
 
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vhtje
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:01 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
You aren't going to like this answer, but people with this sort of booking behavior are not AA's target customer.


I do not understand what you mean. I am BAEC Gold; I am currently on secondment to the US based in SFO; I fly AA most weeks and cross the pond on BA nearly every month and go to Australia on AY/QF/CX/BA once most years. Yes, when I book private travel I seek a good fare - who doesn't? - but my long haul travel is always in a premium cabin. The only time I fly in Economy regularly is on short-haul sectors on AA for business.

Surely, I am the very definition of AA's (and oneworld's) target customer?

At any rate my point remains: plans do change.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:36 pm

vhtje wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
You aren't going to like this answer, but people with this sort of booking behavior are not AA's target customer.


I do not understand what you mean. I am BAEC Gold; I am currently on secondment to the US based in SFO; I fly AA most weeks and cross the pond on BA nearly every month and go to Australia on AY/QF/CX/BA once most years. Yes, when I book private travel I seek a good fare - who doesn't? - but my long haul travel is always in a premium cabin. The only time I fly in Economy regularly is on short-haul sectors on AA for business.


I didn't say their choice is rational, and you demonstrate quite well why it is not. Virtually all of us seek good fares for our personal travel. That doesn't mean that we do not spend--and spend heavily--for business travel. AA is increasingly marginalizing any passenger who buys on price at any time for any reason. It's foolish.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
IPFreely
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:19 pm

chrisair wrote:
And with AA, it's often cheaper--way cheaper--to do this. This week: PHX-LAX: $36, LAX-SEA: $110. PHX-LAX-SEA (same flights) $1,050. PHX-SEA (nonstop) $179, but limited availability (two flights on Tuesday).


Alaska has nonstop flights PHX-SEA for prices ranging from $179 to $320 next week with multiple choices available on all days. Plus connecting flights they PDX for even more choice of departure times, at similar prices.

Why would anyone deal with the nonsense of AA's pricing, restricted non-stops, and new baggage rules when their competitor is so much better with regard to these things?
 
Varsity1
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:41 pm

SFOA380 wrote:
If this is in response to a customer being able to book a cheaper fare by buying two separate tickets... I imagine AA's aim is to rid themselves of said passengers... Customers like this have zero loyalty.


Uh yeah, welcome to the airline business. Switching costs are essentially zero. It's the nature of the game.
 
csavel
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Re: AA's latest attempt to lose customers

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:02 pm

HPRamper wrote:
I can't really figure out why someone would have two separate tickets for one flight, especially an AA to AA flight with no interlining required.


I do it often. I travel for work a lot and sometimes I try to add a mini vacation. Did it in South Africa a month ago (JFK-JNB) for work. I did a separate booking JNB - CPT for a long week-end. They checked my bags all the way through to NY no problem.

April I had to go to San Francisco, decided to take a week-end jaunt to LA. Again, company paid fare to SFO, but I did a separate ticket SFO - LAX on Delta. Apparently two separate tickets meant no checking all the way to New York. Unfortunately the LAX - SFO flight was cancelled which meant my SFO - JFK flight went bye-bye. The two separate tickets caused all sorts of problems. Apparently there was no way in their reservation systems to book me LAX to JFK or even get me on a later flight from SFO to JFK (b/c technically I didn't miss a flight. In the Deltaverse I was two separate persons). Finally in SFO, they had extra room on a redeye to MSP and then the earliest morning flight to JFK.

Agents were incredibly nice in a trying time. Not their fault.

You might ask why not buy everything on one ticket and then reimburse my company? Hell no! The paperwork for that would be worse than any problems caused by two separate tickets.
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