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Draken21fx
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New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:25 pm

Please do keep this topic non political. Everyone has their views but a "Civil Aviation" forum is not the place to express them.

To my question now: I noticed that Trump has signed a new executive order banning arrivals from 7 countries. Since that came a bit quick I was wondering how this is affecting immigration at US airports. Are ppl just sent back from where they came from? Also what happens with green card holders who are from those countries but currently overseas. Will they be refused entry as well?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:39 pm

I doubt a Green card holder, having under gone the long process, would be refused on return just because his/her country is now suddenly on a ban list.
Green cards are not issued lightly.
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smokeybandit
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:44 pm

From how I read it, it only affects new visa applications and refugees. Not those already with standing in the United States.
 
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RobK
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:52 pm

For those of us not up on USA news, what is this new "executive order" that you speak of? A link in the OP would have been useful...
 
smokeybandit
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:54 pm

RobK wrote:
For those of us not up on USA news, what is this new "executive order" that you speak of? A link in the OP would have been useful...


A temporary halt to accepting refugees and granting visas to those from seven middle eastern countries while screening policies and procedures can be reviewed.
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:58 pm

Trump has signed an order that puts in place a 90-day block on entry to the US from citizens from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Libya and Somalia. Th efull text of theorder can be read by following this link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -full-text
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blockski
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:58 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
I doubt a Green card holder, having under gone the long process, would be refused on return just because his/her country is now suddenly on a ban list.
Green cards are not issued lightly.


It appears you are wrong. The wording of the executive order applies to all 'aliens' from the specified countries. That term encompasses all non-citizens, including those holding green cards. The language is somewhat sloppy, but the administration issued this order late on a Friday afternoon and hasn't clarified.

Meanwhile, US airports are prepared to deny entry to green card holders. And various airlines have been denying boarding to green card holders.

https://twitter.com/thomaserdbrink/stat ... 1701500934

This is from the Tehran bureau chief for the New York Times, nothing that Qatar and Lufthansa denied boarding in Tehran for green card holders. Emirates did not, saying passengers could travel at their own risk. There are more reports coming in as well, and people are definitely interpreting this as also applicable to permanent residents.
 
Draken21fx
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:58 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
RobK wrote:
For those of us not up on USA news, what is this new "executive order" that you speak of? A link in the OP would have been useful...


A temporary halt to accepting refugees and granting visas to those from seven middle eastern countries while screening policies and procedures can be reviewed.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jan/28/world-digests-donald-trumps-order-to-ban-refugees-from-muslim-countries
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:14 pm

For what it is worth, none of the countries in question have nonstop or direct flights to the USA. The real effect would be very small in terms of who gets affected.

Now, as for green card holders, that could become a bit controversial, as the United States Supreme Court has specifically declared a border exemption to the Bill of Rights. That said, Trump needs to clarify who gets in for those already having permanent residencies or else he'll get a lawsuit from a family in the USA.
 
anshabhi
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:40 pm

My sister has an Iranian friend, who is doing MS in US. Will she have to leave her studies in between?

While there may not be a direct impact, but indirectly it will lead to a massive spike in hate crimes at US airports. Basically, every Muslim is now much more vulnerable.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Google has started recalling staff from abroad, so it does seem like this is potentially affecting green card holders:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38781420
 
Armodeen
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:13 pm

There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.
 
910A
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Cairo airport officials say seven U.S.-bound migrants — six from Iraq and one from Yemen — have been prevented from boarding an EgyptAir flight to New York’s JFK airport.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/so ... c77fe5334f
 
Mortyman
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:25 pm

Refugees Detained at U.S. Airports, Prompting Legal Challenges to Trump’s Immigration Order


President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect Friday night. Refugees who were in the air on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.


The detentions prompted legal challenges as lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees held at Kennedy Airport filed a writ of habeas corpus early Saturday in the Eastern District of New York seeking to have their clients released. At the same time, they filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry.


The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the U.S. government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for a U.S. contractor, and young son, the lawyers said. They said both men were detained at the airport Friday night after arriving on separate flights.


The attorneys said they were not allowed to meet with their clients, and there were tense moments as they tried to reach them.


The executive order, which Mr. Trump said was part of an extreme vetting plan to keep out “radical Islamic terrorists,” also established a religious test for refugees from Muslim nations: He ordered that Christians and others from minority religions be granted priority over Muslims.


“These are people with valid visas and legitimate refugee claims who have already been determined by the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security to be admissible and to be allowed to enter the U.S. and now are being unlawfully detained,” Mr. Doss said.




https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/r ... -news&_r=0
 
BravoOne
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:27 pm

Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.



Would you care to offer proof of what you just posted? "There are reports" is pretty sketchy.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.

It is airlines that deny the boarding, because US didn't confirm what to do with green card holders as of yet beside saying "case-by-case". There's no green card holders among those strained in US airports (I think.. all articles that I read talk about visa holders as of yet including the NYT one).
 
Armodeen
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:40 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.



Would you care to offer proof of what you just posted? "There are reports" is pretty sketchy.


Not really, I can't be bothered to find it again on FT. The accounts are out there if you want to search for them.
 
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enilria
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:42 pm

To frame the scale/scope of this discussion, this is how many people traveled into the USA from each of those countries in 2016 using data from an MIDT based source. This is based upon ticketing not passports, so a lot of these people were Americans and it also means that if they drove from Yemen to Oman to catch a flight they are lost in the data. Similarly, if they bought a ticket to Dubai and then a second ticket to the USA they are also lost. If they bought a single ticket, I.E. Baghdad to Paris to New York to Louisville on SkyTeam or interline, they are counted.

On a human scale these are large numbers, but in terms of total traffic to the regions they are pretty small. It's ~525/day arriving into the USA, at least half of which are U.S. passport holders. So, we are talking about one widebody aircraft full of people per day into the entirety of the USA that are likely impacted.

Iran - 120,000
Iraq - 50,000
Syria - 0
Yemen - 0
Sudan - 17,000
Somalia - 4,900
Libya - 0
 
345tas
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:43 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.



Would you care to offer proof of what you just posted? "There are reports" is pretty sketchy.


Please see the timeline of the NYT bureau chief in Tehran, he's been following the different policies of the various airlines flying out of IKA. He says Lufthansa has banned green card holders from flying. Although Qatar has apparently revoked this policy and is now allowing green card holders to fly (as is EK).

https://twitter.com/ThomasErdbrink
 
Armodeen
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:49 pm

I don't know why I bothered, but 30 seconds on google found me some news outlets reporting green card holders being denied boarding.

Social media was flooded with claims of people being denied entry to the US, even if, in some cases, they were green card holders. The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) said it had received reports that green-card and other visa holders had been denied boarding and admission into the US at various airports.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -be-denied

There are other outlets reporting similar things.
 
itchief
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:12 pm

The airlines that are not allowing green card holders to fly are doing this to protect themselves from a gray area on this. It is better to refuse boarding than have them turned back in the US where the airline could then be fined by USCIS for letting them fly.

The press is just using this as click bate.

CNN has a headline that says 134,000,000 denied entry into the US. Does anyone really that think that all 134,000,000 would be able to get a visa to visit the US or even have the means to visit the US?

I am married to an immigrant, unlike many making comments who do not know how the process works, I do. I have been through the process to get a visa/green card/citizenship for my wife, and to get a visa for her family to visit. We have friends that are in the same situation as we are, my in-laws got a visa to visit, our friends family were denied. They are from the same county, same city, same living conditions, no good reason why one gets it and one does not. It is not an easy process and it is certainly not a 'right' for someone from one of theses countries to get a visa. They need to need to meet the US immigration requirements to get one.
 
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enilria
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:52 pm

itchief wrote:
The airlines that are not allowing green card holders to fly are doing this to protect themselves from a gray area on this. It is better to refuse boarding than have them turned back in the US where the airline could then be fined by USCIS for letting them fly.

Is it a real cash fine or is it really just a requirement to carry them back at the airlines' expense? I think it is the latter. It's off-season so I suspect the load factors are low enough that the risk is worth it.
itchief wrote:
CNN has a headline that says 134,000,000 denied entry into the US. Does anyone really that think that all 134,000,000 would be able to get a visa to visit the US or even have the means to visit the US?

I posted the traffic numbers. It's impossible it is anywhere near that. That's basically the population of all the countries impacted! Only a tiny % wanted to visit the USA and could get a visa under the prior policy.
 
345tas
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:01 pm

itchief wrote:
The airlines that are not allowing green card holders to fly are doing this to protect themselves from a gray area on this. It is better to refuse boarding than have them turned back in the US where the airline could then be fined by USCIS for letting them fly.

The press is just using this as click bate.



The "gray area" is now clarified. The order includes green card holders: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15C0KX
 
dmg626
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:04 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
blockski wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
I doubt a Green card holder, having under gone the long process, would be refused on return just because his/her country is now suddenly on a ban list.
Green cards are not issued lightly.


It appears you are wrong. The wording of the executive order applies to all 'aliens' from the specified countries. That term encompasses all non-citizens, including those holding green cards. The language is somewhat sloppy, but the administration issued this order late on a Friday afternoon and hasn't clarified.

Meanwhile, US airports are prepared to deny entry to green card holders. And various airlines have been denying boarding to green card holders.

https://twitter.com/thomaserdbrink/stat ... 1701500934

This is from the Tehran bureau chief for the New York Times, nothing that Qatar and Lufthansa denied boarding in Tehran for green card holders. Emirates did not, saying passengers could travel at their own risk. There are more reports coming in as well, and people are definitely interpreting this as also applicable to permanent residents.

What chaotic was to run a country, the next 4 years does not bode well. :shakehead:



The chaos has been in the last several decades when politicians kept kicking the can for the next administrations to deal with this mess, this administration has finally decided that this stops here and something is finally being done.
 
scotron11
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:05 pm

Seeing as all 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi....wonder why their citizens are not subject to the same restrictions
 
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Aesma
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:11 pm

scotron11 wrote:
Seeing as all 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi....wonder why their citizens are not subject to the same restrictions


And the San Bernardino terrorists were from Pakistan (one US born).
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KLDC10
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:13 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The USA has become a joke. Putting out such an order without clarifying whom it exactly includes, is just plain chaotic. You have a president who does not care about laws and rules and proper process. Have fun the next four years.


The order is pretty specific. It excludes a certain number of specific visa, which implies that everyone else who is a citizen of the countries specified in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12); no matter their current visa status (except for those specified), is included in this order. That obviously includes green card holders. Interpreting it any other way would be logically unsound, lead the orders aim ad-absurdum and make it meaningless.

Meanwhile, you (and many other people) are acting as if this were unprecedented. The reality is, many presidents in the past have issued very similar orders; including his liberal holiness Bill Clinton and yes, even the holy ghost himself Barack Obama. Jimmy Carter, himself a Democrat, has collectively banned all Iranians from entry in his day. And Mr. Reagan did the same with Cubans.

So stop acting all upset. There is no doubt at all that Mr. Trump is allowed to do this under current laws and the implication that this order is in any way less specific than prior orders is just as ludicrous as the assumption that Mr. Trump is the first President to do this.

It's time we became realistic again and stopped this dishonest outburst of collective indignation.


I don't want to make this political, but I also don't want to beat around the bush. None of the Presidents you mentioned banned anyone on the basis of their faith, a first Amendment right, and Reagan's banning of the Cubans, nor Carter's banning of the Iranians was in such a blatant violation of a fundamental constitutional right. Obviously Trump didn't call it the Muslim ban to get it signed, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that this IS the Muslim ban. When you run such an openly divisive campaign excluding minorities, and lash out out at them repeatedly, we should be furious that he is bringing us back to a modern day version of segregation where you can be refused service, looked down upon as a second class citizen, and be the victim of hate crimes.


It isn't based on faith. It is based on the unpredictable domestic situations in each of the seven countries affected by the order. There are plenty of other Muslim-Majority nations, like Morocco, Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Turkey, The Gambia (the list goes on for a very long time) that are in no way affected by this ban.
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aviationaware
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:16 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
but it doesn't take a genius to realize that this IS the Muslim ban.


Uh huh? I don't think muslims from Egypt or Malaysia will have any trouble entering the US under this order. If you are seeing things that aren't there, I hope that you can at least still go and see a doctor.
 
yyztpa
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:34 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.



Would you care to offer proof of what you just posted? "There are reports" is pretty sketchy.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-puti ... -1.3956694

"People holding green cards, making them legal permanent U.S. residents, are included in the order, a Department of Homeland security spokeswoman said on Saturday.

"It will bar green card holders," said Gillian Christensen."
 
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hvusslax
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:36 pm

345tas wrote:
itchief wrote:
The airlines that are not allowing green card holders to fly are doing this to protect themselves from a gray area on this. It is better to refuse boarding than have them turned back in the US where the airline could then be fined by USCIS for letting them fly.

The press is just using this as click bate.



The "gray area" is now clarified. The order includes green card holders: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15C0KX


Here I was thinking that reports about permanent residents being denied boarding were some exaggerations or misunderstandings. Surely, it would be legally impossible for the Prez to affect status of current visa or green card-holders with an executive order. Surely it would only affect issuance of new visas. I have clearly misunderstood the American system of governance because it does not seem to be bound by law after all if people who are lawful permanent residents (some of which may not even remember living anywhere else) can be denied re-entering the country on the basis of an executive order.
 
vfw614
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:10 pm

I am wondering what impact this will have on the US-flights of the ME3. While the numbers of those directly affected are relatively small, I would assume that an indirect effect will be that muslims from other countries will be much more reluctant to travel to the US.

Quick question: I would assume that the list of banned countries does not relate to the country of departure, but on the country of citizenship? A lot of those people "from country x" are nowadays living in other countries and some hold dual citizenship or have been naturalized-

Aesma wrote:
scotron11 wrote:
Seeing as all 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi....wonder why their citizens are not subject to the same restrictions


And the San Bernardino terrorists were from Pakistan (one US born).


Hmmm, and Timothy McVeigh was from the US. Come to think of it, that would be a bold move by POTUS... Just sayin'.
 
SCQ83
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Apparently Iran has just banned US citizens to enter the country.
 
PanHAM
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:34 pm

About 20 People in Transit from the Middle East have been denied Boarding their continuing flights to the USA at FRA today. That included green Card holders and the others had visas as otherwise they would not have been accepted for travel to FRA. Some have returned already to their origin cities and others are waiting for ther return flights. Word has it that not only Muslims but also Christian minorities from Iran are affected.
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SQ22
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:46 pm

As mentioned by the topic author please keep politics out of this, I do know it is not easy. Political implications can be discussed in the non aviation forum.
 
Armodeen
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:02 pm

How on earth can you deny entry to people who are perminant residents who have the right to work etc. These people haven't done anything wrong. I suspect a lawyer storm is winding up.
 
ExDubai
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:13 pm

anshabhi wrote:
My sister has an Iranian friend, who is doing MS in US. Will she have to leave her studies in between?

While there may not be a direct impact, but indirectly it will lead to a massive spike in hate crimes at US airports. Basically, every Muslim is now much more vulnerable.

At least he should change his travel plans. I just had a chat with a friend @LH. It seems that also green card holders can't enter the US
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LJ
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:41 pm

enilria wrote:
To frame the scale/scope of this discussion, this is how many people traveled into the USA from each of those countries in 2016 using data from an MIDT based source.


This is not the entire scope. It's about nationals of those countries, thus an Iranian coming back from a trip to Canada cannot enter the USA as well.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:24 pm

LJ wrote:
enilria wrote:
To frame the scale/scope of this discussion, this is how many people traveled into the USA from each of those countries in 2016 using data from an MIDT based source.


This is not the entire scope. It's about nationals of those countries, thus an Iranian coming back from a trip to Canada cannot enter the USA as well.


It also appears that dual citizens of other visa waver countries are also being denied. An Iraqi Canadian will not be granted access to the US even though they are a Canadian Citizen as well.
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CO953
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:00 pm

It's very important that people around the world read the text of the executive order, before forming and spreading opinions. The media is going to go off into complete hysteria. I took the time to read every word of the structured order, and it does specifically give discretion, on a case-by-case basis, to allow people in, who would seem to be banned if one just listens to a broad brush "total ban" reading which many media outlets are going with (such as the growing hollywood furor over an Iranian director supposedly banned from coming to an awards show). The order specifically gives authority to address cases like that of the Iranian director.

In my opinion, this is almost like a wx ground stop of sorts for immigration, which was promised by Trump during the campaign. The executive order also details very specific timelines (30-, 60, 90-day, or 30-, 100-, 200-day, depending on which section of the order is referred to), for agencies to report back to Trump about the integrity of the entire system, vis a vis whether it is effective enough to screen out potential terrorists, or needs changes, Reading the report, it looks like Trump intends to get to work quickly, evaluate the issues, and then make needed adjustments. The order also re-activates the biometric entry/exit system, which was scrapped under Obama.

Again, I urge everyone to take the time to read every word of the order. While you may not agree with the plan, it IS a specific action plan, with deadlines. Overall, I don't read the order as arbitrary, as many media outlets are playing it; it looks like Trump has a specific plan, and is executing it. I, for one, plan to give the president the benefit of the doubt and see if he can work through this issue effectively, and without delay..
 
alfa164
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:21 pm

CO953 wrote:
It's very important that people around the world read the text of the executive order, before forming and spreading opinions. The media is going to go off into complete hysteria. I took the time to read every word of the structured order, and it does specifically give discretion, on a case-by-case basis, to allow people in, who would seem to be banned if one just listens to a broad brush "total ban" reading which many media outlets are going with (such as the growing hollywood furor over an Iranian director supposedly banned from coming to an awards show). The order specifically gives authority to address cases like that of the Iranian director.
In my opinion, this is almost like a wx ground stop of sorts for immigration, which was promised by Trump during the campaign. The executive order also details very specific timelines (30-, 60, 90-day, or 30-, 100-, 200-day, depending on which section of the order is referred to), for agencies to report back to Trump about the integrity of the entire system, vis a vis whether it is effective enough to screen out potential terrorists, or needs changes, Reading the report, it looks like Trump intends to get to work quickly, evaluate the issues, and then make needed adjustments. The order also re-activates the biometric entry/exit system, which was scrapped under Obama.
Again, I urge everyone to take the time to read every word of the order. While you may not agree with the plan, it IS a specific action plan, with deadlines. Overall, I don't read the order as arbitrary, as many media outlets are playing it; it looks like Trump has a specific plan, and is executing it. I, for one, plan to give the president the benefit of the doubt and see if he can work through this issue effectively, and without delay..

You make it all sound so warm and cuddly... "...almost like a wx ground stop..", but the evidence shows it hasn't been so well thought out... or, at least, not well transmitted to the authorities (and the airlines) who are tasked with enforcing it:

yyztpa wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
There are reports coming in of green card holders being denied boarding at their departure airports. What a joke.

Would you care to offer proof of what you just posted? "There are reports" is pretty sketchy.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-puti ... -1.3956694
"People holding green cards, making them legal permanent U.S. residents, are included in the order, a Department of Homeland security spokeswoman said on Saturday.
"It will bar green card holders," said Gillian Christensen."

On that basis, I do read the order as arbitrary - and probably unconstitutional. It will definitely cause problems for US citizens overseas; there is no doubt other countries will (and will be justified, however unpleasant it is) retaliate.

Unlike an impulsive and ill-informed tweet, it isn't something that will be easy to back away from, once the damage is done.
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gatibosgru
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:34 pm

CO953 wrote:
It's very important that people around the world read the text of the executive order, before forming and spreading opinions. The media is going to go off into complete hysteria. I took the time to read every word of the structured order, and it does specifically give discretion, on a case-by-case basis, to allow people in, who would seem to be banned if one just listens to a broad brush "total ban" reading which many media outlets are going with (such as the growing hollywood furor over an Iranian director supposedly banned from coming to an awards show). The order specifically gives authority to address cases like that of the Iranian director.

In my opinion, this is almost like a wx ground stop of sorts for immigration, which was promised by Trump during the campaign. The executive order also details very specific timelines (30-, 60, 90-day, or 30-, 100-, 200-day, depending on which section of the order is referred to), for agencies to report back to Trump about the integrity of the entire system, vis a vis whether it is effective enough to screen out potential terrorists, or needs changes, Reading the report, it looks like Trump intends to get to work quickly, evaluate the issues, and then make needed adjustments. The order also re-activates the biometric entry/exit system, which was scrapped under Obama.

Again, I urge everyone to take the time to read every word of the order. While you may not agree with the plan, it IS a specific action plan, with deadlines. Overall, I don't read the order as arbitrary, as many media outlets are playing it; it looks like Trump has a specific plan, and is executing it. I, for one, plan to give the president the benefit of the doubt and see if he can work through this issue effectively, and without delay..


It's still ridiculous and flawed, no matter how it is spun.
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vfw614
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:15 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
It also appears that dual citizens of other visa waver countries are also being denied. An Iraqi Canadian will not be granted access to the US even though they are a Canadian Citizen as well.


Even crazier: Many countries do not allow citizens to give up citizenship. Here in Germany, the media are reporting about a member of the German Parliament who happens to be the Vice-Chairman of the US-German Parliamentary Association. He is a German, but because he had Iranian citizienship when born and Iran does not let people out of its citizenship, he is covered by the travel ban...

This will get very messy as there are hundreds of thousands of citizens of countries allied with the US who have a citizenship of a muslim country they cannot get rid off.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:47 pm

We're way past 9/11 hijackers. What we don't want are the kind of things that have happened in France, Belgium, Germany, etc. We've had our own problems with terrorist attacks by people who were given asylum as refugees. You call us racists, but we welcome everyone who does comes here with good intentions. We want a strong vetting process to make sure truly evil people stay where they are. You should want the same for your country.
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Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:10 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
We're way past 9/11 hijackers. What we don't want are the kind of things that have happened in France, Belgium, Germany, etc.


Then we're doing pretty damn well, because we're not having those things. Most of that can be attributed to the fact that we're actually pretty good at integrating immigrants, far better than the European nations. That's a feather in our cap. We're also pretty good at vetting those who come here.

Sancho99504 wrote:
We've had our own problems with terrorist attacks by people who were given asylum as refugees.


Fact check time: we have actually not had terrorist attacks by people who came as refugees.

Sancho99504 wrote:
We want a strong vetting process to make sure truly evil people stay where they are. You should want the same for your country.


We're denying refugees and green card holders, who have to go through the most stringent vetting process of anybody. So spare me this "this is about safety" crap. It's not.
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SANChaser
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:36 am

Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:15 am

What happens to Boeing's order from Iran? How is business going to happen when people from either country can't travel to eavh others? 16bln $ ain't coming anymore?
 
alfa164
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Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:20 am

Now what will the airlines do? A Federal Judge has blocked the Executive Order; will passengers be permitted to fly based on the previous law, or will the airlines be skittish and refuse (with the possibility of being sued late) to transport them?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... ar-AAmml8l

The lack of planning and notification leaves everyone in a bind.
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indcwby
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: New executive order - implications at US airports

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:54 am

alfa164 wrote:
Now what will the airlines do? A Federal Judge has blocked the Executive Order; will passengers be permitted to fly based on the previous law, or will the airlines be skittish and refuse (with the possibility of being sued late) to transport them?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... ar-AAmml8l

The lack of planning and notification leaves everyone in a bind.


Judge only blocked a portion of the executive order in which those who were already at the airport and those in transit will be allowed in.
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