Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
airboeingbus
Topic Author
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:38 pm

Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:01 pm

I was wondering what examples could be uses for airlines that where unhappy with aircraft they ordered and regretted ordering them ?
 
Zachbt
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:03 pm

AA and the md-11?
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:11 pm

CO and the late build 762s
Everyone who bought the A345 (once fuel got expensive)
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:14 pm

MH and the A380's?
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:16 pm

Jetblue and Air Canada with E190
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:19 pm

SK and the 737-600.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 899
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:20 pm

Horizon Air with the Dornier 328. Although passengers liked them, they were hangar queens and went tech often. They were disposed of shortly afterwards.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:34 pm

As I recall both NW and PA didn't care for the DC8 and bought 707s in larger numbers.
UA and the caravelle. Nice ride, but no room for baggage, let alone freight to help pay the bills.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:41 pm

Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:43 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?
 
MBSDALHOU
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:44 pm

What about Frontier and the A318? Some of those planes were 4-5 years old when they hit the scrapper
 
DDR
Posts: 1737
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:48 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:


We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA? Can you remember what it was about the planes that CO did not like? I didn't even know CO had that type in its fleet. Learned something today!
 
Flanker7
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:49 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?


KL was happy with the MD11
Flying blue only if possible
 
PayaLebar
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:28 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:49 pm

SQ and the 727, 757 & DC10.
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:51 pm

Air France and the 767?

That was an oddball in the fleet.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
hooverman
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Kenia airways and the 77W
 
DDR
Posts: 1737
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:04 pm

For AA, the 747SP was a necessary evil.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:11 pm

The F100 had an interesting stint @ AA.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6414
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:27 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Air France and the 767?

That was an oddball in the fleet.


Just because it was an oddball doesn't make it a bad choice.

The PSA L-1011s are often cited as a poor fleet choice.
 
User avatar
ACCS300
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:33 pm

UA and the recent cheap deal on 737-700's

Westjet 737-600's
 
User avatar
ACCS300
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:34 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.


It was more the slogan that failed, the A340's served Virgin very well
 
TigerFlyer
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:02 pm

DL and AA domestic 747s in the 70s.
 
User avatar
AAlaxfan
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:50 pm

For some posters it was anyone who bought the 737 series vs the 320 series. :stirthepot:
My favorite airport is the one I'm flying to! :airplane:
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6414
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
For some posters it was anyone who bought the 737 series vs the 320 series. :stirthepot:


Do you really want to start this? In some ways the 737 has better performance and economics, albeit the flight deck is nothing to brag about.

I admit the CO 767-200ER was an odd purchase. They got them basically the same time they got the 767-400s
 
mmo
Posts: 2059
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:26 pm

SQ A340-300. Loved the so much some went directly to Boeing!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:43 pm

F9 and the A318
AA and the MD11
AF and the Concorde
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
IranianMan123
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:59 pm

Qatar Airways A346
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4421
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Long way back, but the Lockheed L-188 Electra with KLM. They purchased it for their European network at the time all other airlines bought regional jets such as the Caravelle and BAC 1-11 for this job. KLM was the outsider using a prop for this, but not for long. The L-188s were quickly retired and replaced with DC-9s.
 
WIederling
Posts: 9792
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:41 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.


It was more the slogan that failed, the A340's served Virgin very well


Did it ?

With so much energy spent on lavish derision continued well beyond "its use before" date
VA ( and Airbus ) must have done something right in advertising.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:30 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?

Pretty sure any love-affair SR had with the M11 would've ended around September 1998, even though it wasn't specifically that model's fault.


WIederling wrote:
VA ( and Airbus ) must have done something right in advertising.

Virgin Australia didn't even exist at the time, and Airbus was using the slogan long before VS... though not to any widespread effect, as evident by the sales number.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dstc47
Posts: 1476
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:45 am

Aer Lingus with the Vickers Viking, bought as DC3 replacements.

Very quickly replaced by - a DC3.
 
User avatar
ojjunior
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:01 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?


Oh yes, RG had very happy times with the MD-11 for years. Have no idea who thinks it was a bad choice for them or the source of it. I recall some of RG MD-11's were bought new from factory...
 
User avatar
hispanola
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:13 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:47 pm

The EI Vikings made for a funny story.

IB and the 757-200. They bought loads of them but couldn't quite find a way to deploy them properly. All 752s were replaced by A321s, which was an improvement for the company. Operating an all-Airbus fleet was also a goal of theirs at the time.
✈️
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:55 pm

Anyone that bought the Convair 880 or 990.

What airline operated those the longest....and how long of time was it?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
anstar
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:17 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.



To be honest I think the A340-300's at the time were a good choice for Virgin Atlantic. What I think was a BAD choice was the order for A340-600's. That should of been an A330 or 777-300ER order. Bizarelly 10 years down the line they did actually order the A330 to replace part of the A34-600 fleet
 
User avatar
11725Flyer
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:51 pm

Any airline that had an "Express" or "Connection" label and flew turboprops.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:12 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Jetblue and Air Canada with E190


You can definitely add US Airways to that list.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3947
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:55 am

TigerFlyer wrote:
DL and AA domestic 747s in the 70s.

I think there were quite a few early operators of 747's that ended up realizing it was a poor choice
EA comes to mind immediately
National would probably be in that boat as well
Maybe Air Florida and the DC-10
 
TheGeordielad
Posts: 905
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:33 pm

China Southern B767s
SwissAir B743s
Lufthansa&Air France A342s
Aer Lingus B763s
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:


ALITALIA never operated any B744
 
BENAir01
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:07 pm

FlySSC wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:


ALITALIA never operated any B744

LAX772LR was saying they canceled the order before they took delivery.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:23 am

FlySSC wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

ALITALIA never operated any B744

...pay closer attention. ;)



BENAir01 wrote:
LAX772LR was saying they canceled the order before they took delivery.

:checkmark:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:49 am

DDR wrote:
Can you remember what it was about the planes that CO did not like?

Lowest dispatch reliability in the fleet + high maintenance costs, didn't help...
But the main problem was that its capacity made it difficult to make money, no matter what CO did:

  • They tried adding more premium seats and going for yield, but then the only routes that it could be used on was Houston to Florida; as NYC had too much competition for that to work, and their Cleveland and Denver hubs weren't powerful enough to drive yield at the volume needed for it to be profitable.
  • They tried configuring it primarily with Y seats, then heavily discounting in order to fill it; but having so many people at cheap fares just made it burn more fuel, which cancelled out the revenue gained from having full seats


DDR wrote:
I didn't even know CO had that type in its fleet. Learned something today!

I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
afcjets
Posts: 3561
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:24 pm

DDR wrote:
We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA?


Yes, and Eastern really liked them.

PSA and the L1011
US and AA and the F100
WN and the 717
HP and the 747
 
User avatar
csturdiv
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:21 am

afcjets wrote:
DDR wrote:
We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA?


Yes, and Eastern really liked them.

PSA and the L1011
US and AA and the F100
WN and the 717
HP and the 747


WN was not a 717 buyer, other than in the sense that they came along with the acquisition of FL. Hardly a regrettable purchase.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
afcjets
Posts: 3561
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:56 am

They didn't just come along with the aquistion of FL, they were 2/3 of FL's fleet. The greatest benefit of the FL merger was getting rid of FL, and getting a ton of gates in ATL to start out big.

Likewise, CO was not an A300 buyer, they came from the Texas Air aquisition of EA.
 
bgboiflyer
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:11 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:26 am

Pretty much any Transaero planes when they existed back in 2015
 
User avatar
aerolimani
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:51 am

Air Canada had the A340-300 from 1995-2008. On the other hand, they had the A340-500 for only 3 years, from 2004-2007. After the -300s were gone, their entire fleet became all twin-engine.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5067
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:59 pm

Island Air and their junky old ATRs. Ex-American Eagle ATRs are known as some of the worst of the type in existence.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airzim, alggag, Baidu [Spider], Yflyer and 30 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos