Raptormodeller
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:51 pm

A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:22 pm

A word of warning to all passengers flying AF from CDG, (my experience is from 2F only but is probably the same in other terminals).
As you probably know, following numerous terrorist attacks in France, airport security has been heightened, this can easily be seen with the employment of private security firm Securitas Direct at the airport. No harm there, perfectly normal, acceptable and reassuring.
As you probably also know, most legacy airlines are under pressure to cut costs due to tough competition from low-cost carriers, such as Ryanair or Easy jet to name but a few. This has been most noticeable in the form of baggage weight and size restrictions (lighter plane=less money on fuel=more wonga saved).
Again no problem there, if a bit annoying but it's never been a problem for me, even when travelling with lot's of luggage. Although I've been paying more attention to luggage weight.
More recently however, AF has been getting very fussy with luggage weight, well not AF per sae but Securitas Direct officials. Their job is to keep us safe, not to measure our luggage weight and force us to pay up. Basically, when entering security, Securitas agents stop all passengers and ask us to present our boarding pass. If you're not flying AF, you're fine they let you through. However if you fly AF, they ask you to step aside and weigh your hand luggage, the limit is 12kg IIRC or 26.4 pounds for those ignorant of the wonders of metric. the margin of error is 12.9. The agents are impolite, abrupt and aggressive if you dare question them. If you are over the limit, even by a tenth of a kilo (within the accepted margin of error) they force you to turn back and check in your bag at considerable expense, around 40 EUR. The people at AF check in are the exact opposite, nice, polite and understanding and fast, Securitas agents then stop you again and re weigh your hand luggage, they also seem to have a flexible approach to rules, when pointing out the margin of error, they say: "les regles sont les regles, ca ne se discute pas" or "rules are rules, and not up to discussion". I also saw them stop a passenger flying Business and berate them for being "over the 12kg limit" despite being within the higher weight allowance for their class. I feel AF is doing this simply to collect a bit of extra cash. Absolutely awful, weirdly, you don't get this when flying AF in the opposite direction TO cdg, it is highly probably that the same happens at Orly.

In short scrupulously weigh your bag, come with 40 EUR in hand or fly with a different airline for the same flight thanks to code sharing. I doubt the nosy officials are aware of this as they only stop passengers which specifically say AF on their boarding pass. In the future I'm using codesharing or flying a different airline all together.

Here are a few links to passengers with similar experiences:

https://flight-report.com/fr/report/205 ... Madrid-MAD

https://www.facebook.com/airfrance/post ... 3425210526
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FredrikHAD
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:39 pm

If hand luggage is overweight by a small margin, you can always put something from your bag in a pocket... Also, some carriers accept a separate camera bag and such. Rules ARE rules, and they’re there for a reason, but of course, agents should be polite. One thing that may make the Securitas agents more prone to refusing overweight hand luggage is that they have a contract with AF where it says what they should and shouldn’t allow and do. Not following those rules puts Securitas in a bad situation, even if it is a case of being nice to a poor pax with 13.1 kg hand luggage. Perhaps that contract should contain a ”niceness” clause apart from the strict rules?

/Fredrik
 
Raptormodeller
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
If hand luggage is overweight by a small margin, you can always put something from your bag in a pocket... Also, some carriers accept a separate camera bag and such. Rules ARE rules, and they’re there for a reason, but of course, agents should be polite. One thing that may make the Securitas agents more prone to refusing overweight hand luggage is that they have a contract with AF where it says what they should and shouldn’t allow and do. Not following those rules puts Securitas in a bad situation, even if it is a case of being nice to a poor pax with 13.1 kg hand luggage. Perhaps that contract should contain a ”niceness” clause apart from the strict rules?

/Fredrik


I've got absolutely no problem with them as long as they follow the rules, are polite and help us on our journey instead of causing great annoyance. I'm complaining because of their attitude towards the passengers and the rules they are given. I have yet to encounter a friendly or at least a courteous and polite agent performing this job. The problem is that AF are only doing this at CDG and probably ORY too, I think AF are also partly to blame with there flexible approach to where hand luggage is weighed, I do not have this problem when I fly on other legacy airlines such as BA or LT for example......
Meh. :/ If they want to cut costs maybe they should stop or reduce the expensive looking ads for La Premiere, which have more in common with bespoke haute couture fashion shoots than flying.
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B747forever
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 pm

That is why I love flying with BA. They must be one of few airlines worldwide that do not care about the weight of your carry on. The limit is 23kg!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Raptormodeller
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Posts: 36
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:33 pm

B747forever wrote:
That is why I love flying with BA. They must be one of few airlines worldwide that do not care about the weight of your carry on. The limit is 23kg!

Yeah! Also why I fly AF, but I need to reconsider my options when flying from CDG. They simply don't care at all other airports.
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Aesma
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:46 pm

I regularly fly a few AF routes (regularly as in once or twice a year). Once at FLR I weighed my hand luggage and although the suitcase was OK, someone told me I should add my computer bag to the balance, then I was way over the limit. I checked the suitcase, however at that time a checked item was part of the ticket anyway.

I went back to Italy for New Year's Eve, with a no frills AF ticket, so this time I paid more attention to the total weight, and put the computer directly in the suitcase. Flew from 2F. There was some guy (I guess from Securitas as you say) who took a look at our passes and luggage and weighed my sister's suitcase, only using his hand, and let her go. She also had quite a large handbag.

I guess we were lucky, or the guy didn't want to bother, it was 6am after all !
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VSMUT
Posts: 1949
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:36 am

While security should generally treat you in a nice way, the 12 kg limit is a limit. You aren't supposed to go over it, even if the official policy is a 0.9 kg discrepancy. If you plan to take more, buy the ticket with a checked suitcase in the first place. Take less than 12 kg, and nobody will bother you. Simple.
 
Raptormodeller
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:49 am

VSMUT wrote:
While security should generally treat you in a nice way, the 12 kg limit is a limit. You aren't supposed to go over it, even if the official policy is a 0.9 kg discrepancy. If you plan to take more, buy the ticket with a checked suitcase in the first place. Take less than 12 kg, and nobody will bother you. Simple.

I know, and as I have said above, I have no problem with that, my problem is the attitude of security and their flexibility with the rules.
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VSMUT
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:58 am

Raptormodeller wrote:
I know, and as I have said above, I have no problem with that, my problem is the attitude of security and their flexibility with the rules.


What flexibility? 12 kg is 12 kg, not 12.9 kg.
 
debonair
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:10 am

First of all, it is NOT the security staff, it is AF staff.

This procedure might be new for you, but it is common practice worldwide. EUROWINGS is doing exactly the same at their hub in Cologne, but most often I have this seen in Malaysia (but I have to confess at the old LCCT).
 
Raptormodeller
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:28 pm

debonair wrote:
First of all, it is NOT the security staff, it is AF staff.

This procedure might be new for you, but it is common practice worldwide. EUROWINGS is doing exactly the same at their hub in Cologne, but most often I have this seen in Malaysia (but I have to confess at the old LCCT).


Ok then, explain why the agents have no AF logos on their uniforms, orange 'security' armbands and Securitas Direct logos on their uniforms along with an attitude you can expect from most security guards. The exact opposite of what should be customer service personel from AF.
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Raptormodeller
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:28 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Raptormodeller wrote:
I know, and as I have said above, I have no problem with that, my problem is the attitude of security and their flexibility with the rules.


What flexibility? 12 kg is 12 kg, not 12.9 kg.

Read the original post.
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VSMUT
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:59 pm

Raptormodeller wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Raptormodeller wrote:
I know, and as I have said above, I have no problem with that, my problem is the attitude of security and their flexibility with the rules.


What flexibility? 12 kg is 12 kg, not 12.9 kg.

Read the original post.


I did, your original post is full of false assumptions.


Raptormodeller wrote:
This has been most noticeable in the form of baggage weight and size restrictions (lighter plane=less money on fuel=more wonga saved).


Or more likely because there is very limited space in the overhead lockers, and because of cheap people like you, people like me who don't drag the kitchen sink with us have to put our coats on the floor by our feet due to limited space. These rules, BTW, have been around for much longer than the LCCs.


Raptormodeller wrote:
More recently however, AF has been getting very fussy with luggage weight, well not AF per sae but Securitas Direct officials. Their job is to keep us safe, not to measure our luggage weight and force us to pay up.


Their job is to do whatever Air France asks them to do.


Raptormodeller wrote:
However if you fly AF, they ask you to step aside and weigh your hand luggage, the limit is 12kg IIRC or 26.4 pounds for those ignorant of the wonders of metric. the margin of error is 12.9.


The limit is 12 kg as per the Air France website. There is no mention of any margin. If you load up with 12.9 kg, you should rightfully be asked to check in your luggage.
There may well be a margin to account for inaccuracies in the scale, but that doesn't mean you are allowed to take advantage of it by loading more than 12 kg.


Raptormodeller wrote:
The agents are impolite, abrupt and aggressive if you dare question them. If you are over the limit, even by a tenth of a kilo (within the accepted margin of error) they force you to turn back and check in your bag at considerable expense, around 40 EUR.


There is no mention anywhere of a margin. You were over weight.


Raptormodeller wrote:
I also saw them stop a passenger flying Business and berate them for being "over the 12kg limit" despite being within the higher weight allowance for their class.


So what if he was in business? They also have maximum allowances. In this case it is 2x items of 18 kg total, and not a gram over that.


Raptormodeller wrote:
I feel AF is doing this simply to collect a bit of extra cash. Absolutely awful


Oh so awful! It is only clearly stated to you on their website, while booking and on your effin ticket! Seriously, if you want to avoid this, there are 3 very simple solutions:

1. Buy a ticket with checked luggage included
2. Buy business
3. Pack less junk

I for one have never experienced any problems in CDG, and guess why? I always pack less than 12 kg of hand luggage.
 
debonair
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:49 am

Raptormodeller wrote:
Ok then, explain why the agents have no AF logos on their uniforms, orange 'security' armbands and Securitas Direct logos on their uniforms along with an attitude you can expect from most security guards. The exact opposite of what should be customer service personel from AF.


Sorry, seems AF outsourced the business. Last time I visited CDG it seems to be AF staff...
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Raptormodeller wrote:
The agents are impolite, abrupt and aggressive if you dare question them. If you are over the limit, even by a tenth of a kilo (within the accepted margin of error) they force you to turn back and check in your bag at considerable expense, around 40 EUR.


There is no mention anywhere of a margin. You were over weight.


While I can see Raptormodeller's point about the agents' behaviour - it's also true that passengers behave as if they have a right to go up to (unpublished) margins on weight and then go ballistic when the rules they signed up to are actually applied.

I hear so many stories of agents getting verbally assaulted because "that other agent in that other airport let me take X kg so I'm taking X kg on this flight! Now get me your manager!", etc. etc...
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PanzerPowner
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:46 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Raptormodeller wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

What flexibility? 12 kg is 12 kg, not 12.9 kg.

Read the original post.


I did, your original post is full of false assumptions.


Raptormodeller wrote:
This has been most noticeable in the form of baggage weight and size restrictions (lighter plane=less money on fuel=more wonga saved).


Or more likely because there is very limited space in the overhead lockers, and because of cheap people like you, people like me who don't drag the kitchen sink with us have to put our coats on the floor by our feet due to limited space. These rules, BTW, have been around for much longer than the LCCs.


Raptormodeller wrote:
More recently however, AF has been getting very fussy with luggage weight, well not AF per sae but Securitas Direct officials. Their job is to keep us safe, not to measure our luggage weight and force us to pay up.


Their job is to do whatever Air France asks them to do.


Raptormodeller wrote:
However if you fly AF, they ask you to step aside and weigh your hand luggage, the limit is 12kg IIRC or 26.4 pounds for those ignorant of the wonders of metric. the margin of error is 12.9.


The limit is 12 kg as per the Air France website. There is no mention of any margin. If you load up with 12.9 kg, you should rightfully be asked to check in your luggage.
There may well be a margin to account for inaccuracies in the scale, but that doesn't mean you are allowed to take advantage of it by loading more than 12 kg.


Raptormodeller wrote:
The agents are impolite, abrupt and aggressive if you dare question them. If you are over the limit, even by a tenth of a kilo (within the accepted margin of error) they force you to turn back and check in your bag at considerable expense, around 40 EUR.


There is no mention anywhere of a margin. You were over weight.


Raptormodeller wrote:
I also saw them stop a passenger flying Business and berate them for being "over the 12kg limit" despite being within the higher weight allowance for their class.


So what if he was in business? They also have maximum allowances. In this case it is 2x items of 18 kg total, and not a gram over that.


Raptormodeller wrote:
I feel AF is doing this simply to collect a bit of extra cash. Absolutely awful


Oh so awful! It is only clearly stated to you on their website, while booking and on your effin ticket! Seriously, if you want to avoid this, there are 3 very simple solutions:

1. Buy a ticket with checked luggage included
2. Buy business
3. Pack less junk

I for one have never experienced any problems in CDG, and guess why? I always pack less than 12 kg of hand luggage.

I guess your logic means burn all the Balikbayan Boxes
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
Heinkel
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:32 pm

Many airlines allow an extra "laptop bag" for free. AFAIK AF allows different (smaller) maximum dimensions of this laptop bag.

My own laptop bag is ok for most airlines but not for AF.

So check before your flight, what the allowed weight and dimensions of your luggage are.

It is a fact, that many people bring much too heavy and too large hand luggage on board. (Ever been to TLV?)
In most cases nobody cares but if the airline insists on their own rules, you can't complain.
 
mantistobogn
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Re: A word of warning if flying AF from CDG

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:36 am

I dealt with the same thing during a trip to Paris last year. As an airline employee traveling on ZED, its not always practical to part with your bag at the counter, especially if there is a slim chance you'll get a seat assignment for that particular flight. The security agents did not have much sympathy for this.

I know this tip is not applicable for the revenue traveler, but if you're traveling on a ZED with AF, book another ZED for an airline that departs from T2 and use that to pass through security. Once you're in the terminal, you can cancel that ticket. You can also book another ZED for an airline departing T1 (like United) and take the T2 shuttle once you clear passport control.

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