fsxfan38
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I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:58 pm

I'd like to preface this by saying that I understand that the 777 is a beautiful bird in its own right. They look positively majestic when they fly over, they are much more fuel efficient than any other giant airliner on the market, and overall it was a very influential plane that took the aviation industry by storm in the 90s and 2000s.

However, The one thing that I absolutley hate about the 777 is the fact that it has killed so many other beautiful and unique widebodies. The 777 was the final nail in the coffin for the L-1011 in the 90s, and it slowly but surely killed the DC-10, the early generation 747-100s and 200s, and the MD-11 throughout the 2000s. And it's not done yet, in this decade, the 777 has worked its way to kill the 747-400, the 747-8i, and even the A380.
When you look at it this way, the 777 really is the number 1 contender when it comes to widebodies, as it's beaten each and every one of it's opponents. I'm pissed that it killed so many other aircraft, but I can't help but be impressed.

Just like the Survivor song, The Boeing 777 rose up to the challenge of it's rivals, had the guts, got the glory, went the distance and now it's not gonna stop.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:07 pm

...plus it's so freakin' noisy...OMG, don't even get me started on that!

Having said that, it's such a beautiful, lovely-looking, majestic giant... I love flying on it, even in 10-across Y format! :-)
 
skipness1E
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:16 pm

And when you slam it into the ground short of the runway it holds together. TWICE!
 
PixelPilot
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:22 pm

The GE90 roar is what makes it the best thing ever.
 
uta999
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:24 pm

If you take out Malaysian Airlines, only two people have died in a 777 accident since 1995, plus another who was accidently run over at SFO.
Your computer just got better
 
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sassiciai
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:28 pm

Apart from the fact that you absolutely love the 777 and are absurdly wrong on its own impact on other aircraft in the past, could you clarify for me, what is the point of this thread, please?
 
RamblinMan
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:35 pm

I'd much rather hear the roar of the engine than loud children or snoring fat dudes. I don't get the love for quiet planes, ain't anything "quiet" about being stuffed in a tube with a couple hundred other people. The roar of a GE90 is the best white noise machine ever.
 
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GlobalAirways
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:35 pm

The 777 wasn't even a twinkly in Boeing's eyes when Lockheed ceased production on the L-1011.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:40 pm

I flew a CO 772 IAH-Gatwick back in 2001. Wow, what a majestic plane. I remember just staring at her through the terminal windows in awe; I'd never seen one up close before. It was also the first plane I flew on that had IFE (crude for the era) and in flight phones. I remember calling my Mom from 30-something thousand feet over the Atlantic. Wow...

But yes, I agree. It has killed a number of other beautiful birds, but that's the nature of things. Those on L-1011s and older 747s couldn't stay around forever. In time, something will kill the 777. Time marches on.
 
Austin787
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:48 pm

My first 777 flight was in 2006, AA DFW-NRT. Also my first flight with personal video screen. I was on my way to Taiwan for an internship.

777 love: opened up more long haul routes, 1-2-1 business class
777 hate: 10 across economy
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:04 pm

The L-1011 had already been killed off by the DC-10 and Rolls Royce's lateness in delivering engines by the early 1980's, years before the 777 program started.

McDonnell-Douglas killed off the DC-10 by underegineering it and not doing enough to improve it. The 1974 TK crash near Paris was criminal. McDonnell-Douglas and the FAA conspired to not have an airworthiness directive issued with respect to the cargo door latches that was found after an incident on AA over Canada on a flight between BUF and DTW.

When it came time to make the MD-11, MD management should have at least relofted the wing with a supercritical airfoil. Instead they just did some tweeks to aerodyamics but undershot their performance guarantees. The smaller tail MD put on the MD-11 to decrease drag made the MD-11 prone to Dutch roll. The FedEx crash at NRT was attributed to the deficient design. After AA was disappointed with the MD-11 performance, they ordered the 777-200ER to replace them and sold off their MD-11 fleet to be converted into freighters.
 
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acreinholz
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:07 pm

The first time I flew the 777 was a UA flight ORD/GRU, back in the 90s...
Since then, I have mixed feelings about it. Noisy and Uncomfortable, back then was only 9 across.
However, very safe and reliable...
I am 6´2" and I have a hard time fitting into it. Love the business class though... Fine aircraft... Not a head turning... I prefer the A340 and the B747...
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bob75013
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:39 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
...plus it's so freakin' noisy...OMG, don't even get me started on that!

Having said that, it's such a beautiful, lovely-looking, majestic giant... I love flying on it, even in 10-across Y format! :-)


Not as noisy as the 340 -- when it's flying above me, I don't even have to look up to know that it's a 340
 
flydude380
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:02 pm

My fav is the 777-300. Not to mention, the cabin isn’t so dry like the -200 which leaves you ill after a flight. Also, the crew rest area is nicer :)
 
Gasman
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:33 pm

Hate it. Absolutely, totally, utterly hate it.

- 10 abreast is *possible* in a cabin that has significantly less width and headroom than a 744 (or A380)
- Noisy on the inside
- Tail is too small looking for the fuselage (especially on the 300)
- It achieves a level of aesthetic blandness that actually manages to be remarkable in its own right.

But mostly, this is the aircraft that pretty much single handedly has destroyed the romance of air travel. Ubiquitous, practical, economical, bland to look at.......... it's the Toyota Camry of the skies. I would preferentially fly on any other widebody ever built.
 
stratclub
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:35 pm

Obsolescence killed the DC-10 and The TriStar. The market will be what kills the A-380 and 747-8I.

It is just criminal that the F.A.A. certified the DC-10. The biggest contributing factor to the crash at O'Hare wasn't really the fact that the pylon ripped the hydraulic lines out of the L.E. when it departed the aircraft, it was because the loss of hydraulics to the L.E. slats allowed the slats to be retracted by the air stream causing a severe asymmetrical lift issue and an uncontrollable death roll to the left.

Even with the loss of the engine and pylon, if the L/H leading edge slats had not collapsed, the flight crew could have maintained controlled flight and landed safely. And really, Boeing and Lockheed doesn't design this people killing "feature" into their airplanes.

With all it's design shortcoming and the way those shortcomings were handled including after lives were lost, it is just so amazing that there are not a bunch of people serving life long prison terms. IDK what happened with this but I do recall that Douglas did fight with the F.A.A and IIRC the leading edge design flaw was never changed.

DC-10? I would say good riddance and the sooner Fed-Ex can scrap the ones they have, the better. The L-1011 was a very safe aircraft but was over engineered and not very economical to maintain or fly.
 
stratclub
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:06 pm

B-777? The best aircraft Boeing has ever made. Probably a better airplane than the B-787. Of course time will tell..................
 
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aeromoe
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:27 pm

sassiciai wrote:
Apart from the fact that you absolutely love the 777 and are absurdly wrong on its own impact on other aircraft in the past, could you clarify for me, what is the point of this thread, please?


To generate discussion...
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aeromoe
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
...the first plane I flew on that had IFE (crude for the era)...


I had a ride in SQ 777-200ER from BKK-SIN last month...possibly the "same type" first-generation seatback screens from the 90s...horrible. While I've had the opportunity to fly a few 777s since my increase in flying since 2016, my first few UA rides were in the late 90s....then no 777s until 2016, by my choice. It is not an airplane I typically go out of my way to try to fly on...so many more options out there for me as an Avgeek. With very few exceptions ALL of my flying is on my dime and at my discretion. I have total control over the choices I make...and choosing the 777 is usually not a priority.
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:35 am

I absolutely loved the 777 growing up, but now it seems a little more bland to me - probably because it is no longer unique - a big twin is the norm now and it's tech is no longer cutting edge. It's lost some of it's magic but is still a favorite. I always enjoy a ride on a 777 - even with 10 across. Just tried that config with Qatar expecting it to be horrible considering all the complaining people do, but I honestly didn't notice a difference between that and the 3-3-3 and 2-5-2 planes I've flown other than a smaller arm rest and narrower isles. And I'm 5'10 with a 36 waist at 185lbs so I'm not huge but I'm certainly not small either.

I miss the other planes you mentioned too - airports are much more boring with all planes either a large twin or a 737 or A320 in mostly euro white liveries these days. Still, the 3 holers and 747s were going to need to be retired at some point regardless, and I'm glad the 777 is around and will continue to be. I'll take it over the 787, which might have a nice interior but to me couldn't be more bland and boring. It looks like a minivan.
 
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Alphazone
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:53 am

fsxfan38 wrote:
thing that I absolutley hate about the 777 is the fact that it has killed so many other beautiful and unique widebodies. The 777 was the final nail in the coffin for the L-1011 in the 90s, and it slowly but surely killed the DC-10, the early generation 747-100s and 200s, and the MD-11 throughout the 2000s.


That claim doesn't make sense, because old aircraft are replaced regardless by new, more efficient designs.

I wish I could have flown on the L-1011 but I was born 1997, luckily I rode DC-10 a few times transatlantic, but not MD-11.

Even flying a 777A I would consider a unique opportunity for many of us, even in the States. I'm not sure if those UA birds still have 2-5-2 config, maybe somebody knows. I'll organize a a.netters' meet for anyone who has yet to log this subtype and is interested.
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PPVLC
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:52 am

Noisy cabin, dry air, tiring ride, I'm not a fan.
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N626AA
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:41 am

Always was a fan of the trijets and quads too. While the 777 and other modern twins aren't as distinct from eachother as the machines of bygone eras, they are the here and now machines that, in time, will be replaced altogether too. Albeit by newer revised 777s, A330s, etc, we will likely look back at this generation of 77s and 330s as classics, like the 737-1/200 to the 737-3/4/500.
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:06 am

First long range flight I ever took was on MH's 777 to Los Angeles with their 90s vintage Y cabin. Since then, with the exception of my trip to LHR on MH's A380, I've flown nothing but 777s long haul.

I never noticed the noise, or the 10-abreast seating, or any other complaints that people usually have about the 777. I just love it!
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Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:53 am

fsxfan38 wrote:
they are much more fuel efficient than any other giant airliner on the market.


Yeah, well,...no. That's just plain wrong in very many aspects.
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Dutchy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:07 am

The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.
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oldannyboy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:54 am

bob75013 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
...plus it's so freakin' noisy...OMG, don't even get me started on that!

Having said that, it's such a beautiful, lovely-looking, majestic giant... I love flying on it, even in 10-across Y format! :-)


Not as noisy as the 340 -- when it's flying above me, I don't even have to look up to know that it's a 340


Well I was obviously talking about cabin noise... :wave:
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:05 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.


Let me say: The 777 is indeed an excellent tool and an outstanding piece of machinery, but economically as well as technically.

However, people, in my opinion, use the phrase "game changer" waaaaaaay to often. The 777 did not change the game. The market wouldn't have developed much differently with the 346 and the 748/380 for the top end of the market.

The 777 offered nothing the above planes couldn't do. It did however offer "even better" economics to accelerate the already persistent growth. It didn't create the growth or offered opportunities in range or payload other platforms couldn't fill economically. Nothing game changing, but certainly evolutionary. And a homerun performance wise, no doubt. Excellent plane it is.
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studentdrbev
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:16 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.


Let me say: The 777 is indeed an excellent tool and an outstanding piece of machinery, but economically as well as technically.

However, people, in my opinion, use the phrase "game changer" waaaaaaay to often. The 777 did not change the game. The market wouldn't have developed much differently with the 346 and the 748/380 for the top end of the market.

The 777 offered nothing the above planes couldn't do. It did however offer "even better" economics to accelerate the already persistent growth. It didn't create the growth or offered opportunities in range or payload other platforms couldn't fill economically. Nothing game changing, but certainly evolutionary. And a homerun performance wise, no doubt. Excellent plane it is.


Wait until A or B brings a single engined 300pax capacity airliner that flies transcontinental and transoceanic (which is easy as FAA certified the twins when it was thought impossible). That will definitely will be a bullet in the head for the 777s, not to say other twins and quad jets :rotfl:

Absolutely not a game changer but with better economics and maintenance costs, it naturally will be a better choice for the carriers.
 
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:47 pm

Gasman wrote:
Hate it. Absolutely, totally, utterly hate it.

- 10 abreast is *possible* in a cabin that has significantly less width and headroom than a 744 (or A380)
- Noisy on the inside
...
- It achieves a level of aesthetic blandness that actually manages to be remarkable in its own right.


#meToo :crazy:
 
IADCA
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:50 pm

I appreciate that its existence has in some ways contributed to lower costs of air travel. I also don't mind the cabin noise. Otherwise, the 777 is (ironically) about as close as it gets to a flying bus, at least among widebodies: ubiquitous, functional, minimally comfortable, and relatively economical, but primarily something to be endured. It's also the ugliest of the twins, at least in my view, the aviation equivalent of a 4-point butterface reduction.

Price equal or close to equal, I'll take any standard-configuration widebody over it, even a 9-abreast 787. The combination of it being large enough to crowd immigration queues and cramped enough to be noticeably worse than any Airbus widebody and any non-787 Boeing, and old enough to not have the improved air of the 787, make it the worst in my book.
 
ACDC8
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:32 am

I've still not been on a T7 and honestly, have no real desire to. Its bland and I don't see the appeal (other than the economics). The A300, A310, A330 and B767 and B787 are all so much better looking for a wide body twin. The B772 looks ok, but the B773 just looks wrong on so many levels.

But, thats just my humble opinion.
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Keith2004
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:11 pm

777 Used to be my favorite, partially because I was relatively new to long haul flying when I first flew it in 2005 (AA MIA-LHR..ancient IFE but 1st seat back IFE experience) and I still enjoy it, but my tastes have changed.
My first long haul flights were in 2004 on Lufthansa 340 and 747 (MIA-FRA, MUC-MIA) with no seat back IFE. Back then I lamented not being on 777 with seat back IFE....Today i would take 340/747 opportunities over 777 in a heartbeat. :hyper:

I still love how huge the engines are, still a wow factor there :wideeyed:
The the length 777-300 is still cool to look at
I find 777-200s kind of boring now
I don't care for the 3-4-3 Y....but 1-2-1 J is amazing

777 will remain Iconic for years to come. They truly changed long-haul twin travel. They expanded on possibilities of twins far beyond imagination even when 767/A310 was flying US-EU. Definitely was the nail in the coffin of 4 engine aircraft (340, 747, 380) . But that was destined to happen as technology evolved. Even though many Avgeeks still lament this. If 777 did not kill the quads another aircraft would. It is almost safe to say Airbus and Boeing will NOT build another quad.
Last edited by Keith2004 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Keith2004
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:19 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.


Was there a time when airliners were not just tools for airlines?
 
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:22 pm

I mean being an aviation fan, I naturally love the raw power that the 777 family brings. But if you've got broad shoulders like I have, 3-4-3 is a terrible experience for more than a few hours.

However it's prowess is largely overrated these days as tech has moved on - really only the 77W is still a 'great' aircraft which beats others, and even that's time limited. The 787 and 350 have surpassed the -200LR's economics, the 340-300 always (and contrary to much traditional A.net wisdom) closely chased or matched the 200ER's economics, whilst the 200A has been hands down trounced by the 333 for a good decade on anything under the ~5,000nm area.
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ACDC8
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:14 am

Keith2004 wrote:

Was there a time when airliners were not just tools for airlines?

There was a day when certain aircraft and their glamour was a big selling factor for an aircraft type - some were successful, others not so much. B747, Concorde, Constellation, etc.
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Dutchy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:53 am

Keith2004 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.


Was there a time when airliners were not just tools for airlines?


I would say yes. A time when pioneers were at the helm. A time when airliners were part of the branding. A time when there were truly entrepreneurs. Richard Branson is one of the last. Nowadays it is run by numbers MBA types and not engineers/entrepreneurs, no love for the product......
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Boeing 777 was more than an evolution, a game changer at the top end o the capacity market and indeed helped to kill of many planes.

From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like it, the cockpit section just looks weird with the drop to the 767 nose, the -300 version does look like it does the correct aesthetic length. From a passenger point of view: loud and cramped (at 10 abreast), so I do not like it at all.

Economics prevail in this day and age, the brutal truth is it is a tool for airlines, nothing more.


Was there a time when airliners were not just tools for airlines?


I would say yes. A time when pioneers were at the helm. A time when airliners were part of the branding. A time when there were truly entrepreneurs. Richard Branson is one of the last. Nowadays it is run by numbers MBA types and not engineers/entrepreneurs, no love for the product......


What a load of BS.

In the real world airline I have the pleasure of having insight to, there is extreme love for the product.
Just because people (MBA types you call them
condescendingly) realize that besides a lot of love you better earn your pennies to pay your employees makes it less entrepreneurial? Or less with love?
People on this page need to get real, avgeek or not...
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Dutchy
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:06 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:

Was there a time when airliners were not just tools for airlines?


I would say yes. A time when pioneers were at the helm. A time when airliners were part of the branding. A time when there were truly entrepreneurs. Richard Branson is one of the last. Nowadays it is run by numbers MBA types and not engineers/entrepreneurs, no love for the product......


What a load of BS.

In the real world airline I have the pleasure of having insight to, there is extreme love for the product.
Just because people (MBA types you call them
condescendingly) realize that besides a lot of love you better earn your pennies to pay your employees makes it less entrepreneurial? Or less with love?
People on this page need to get real, avgeek or not...


You say that the bean counters aren't in charge? I see it all the time, not just in aviation...... But fine you just look away.....
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Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:03 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

I would say yes. A time when pioneers were at the helm. A time when airliners were part of the branding. A time when there were truly entrepreneurs. Richard Branson is one of the last. Nowadays it is run by numbers MBA types and not engineers/entrepreneurs, no love for the product......


What a load of BS.

In the real world airline I have the pleasure of having insight to, there is extreme love for the product.
Just because people (MBA types you call them
condescendingly) realize that besides a lot of love you better earn your pennies to pay your employees makes it less entrepreneurial? Or less with love?
People on this page need to get real, avgeek or not...


You say that the bean counters aren't in charge? I see it all the time, not just in aviation...... But fine you just look away.....


Look away? Because I don't want to see the truth *drums* :rotfl:
I say they are there for a very good reason. Passion doesn't earn money. Controlling cost and steering revenue and yield efficiently does.
And it just happens that financial experts, or bean counters as everybody is calling them condescendingly, are pretty good in providing cold hard financial facts to support decisions.

They are not in control, they are however integral part of the decision making process. Rightfully so! But keep drumming your mantra if you need an excuse or somebody to blame.

Disclaimer: I am not a bean counter, quite the opposite.
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:51 am

So we basically are in agreement. )f vourse a business needs to make money. Bean counters can forefill a good role within a company.

But I mean the difference between profit maximization and profit optimization. I want the later. Iif MBA types get too much control it will be maximization and that is bad for everyone: short term profit instead of long term gain.
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Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:02 am

Dutchy wrote:
So we basically are in agreement. )f vourse a business needs to make money. Bean counters can forefill a good role within a company.

But I mean the difference between profit maximization and profit optimization. I want the later. Iif MBA types get too much control it will be maximization and that is bad for everyone: short term profit instead of long term gain.


Pretty big difference between this tone of your post (fulfill a good role) and the usual "bean counters control and ruin everything" mantra. But with "fulfill a good role" we are in agreement, yes.

Anyway, my feeling is, you paint with a pretty broad brush and judge pretty digital. --> All MBA types always look for profit maximization? Again, what a load of BS. As if MBA types would characterize into "good or bad" people...

It's always a balance between short term necessities and long term profitability. What's weighed more as priority is often a bit of a cultural thing. Well-educated MBA types can give excellent advice on which way to pursue. And yes, there are black sheep few and far in between, but that - god forbid - is even true for a.nets beloved engineers.
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Lightning12
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:06 am

I don’t really like the aesthetics of the 777, it doesn’t look that good to me, especially compared the 787 and A350. As a passenger, I don’t mind the 3-4-3 seating, as I’m not really that wide.
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:10 am

Oh, fora are in general not that nuanced, hope you don't come here for a nuanced opinion :white:

Excel fetishism is a problem if it overtakes vision. It makes you risk averse and on another level, you are taking risks you might not even be aware of. Beancounters a needed, but don't have them in charge.

Disclaimer: I am a MBA type, an engineer, and an entrepreneur :lol:
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Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:31 am

Dutchy wrote:
Disclaimer: I am a MBA type, an engineer, and an entrepreneur :lol:


Guilty as well, I guess.

But yeah, maybe I am overinterpreting and look for nuances...and maybe they are indeed not to be expected here.
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:23 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Disclaimer: I am a MBA type, an engineer, and an entrepreneur :lol:


Guilty as well, I guess.

But yeah, maybe I am overinterpreting and look for nuances...and maybe they are indeed not to be expected here.


I am quite nuanced, but in my world - real live working word - bean counters did overtake everything. My business is real estate so you can imagine what I am talking about. Besides a good business case, I want to be a little proud of the things I do. In the real estate business, a lot of hit and run types are my competition.
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deltadudejg
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:46 am

I've done ground handling for them and flown a handful of them. Worked BA's 777-200s and gotta say their a good airplane to work. We handled Edelweiss at the same time and when HB-JHQ was a year old it always had technical issues. The 777 never had any issue.

Plus don't quote me on this but I believe it was the first airplane build by Boeing that was fully designed on the computer.

Flying on them, I've been on Austrian, British and United's 777s. I've gotten the opportunity to fly on each engine option as well, the GE, PW, and RR. You can't beat the good ole GE90s. Cabin wise yeah they can be cramped but pretty much every airline out there these days is tightening seats up in economy. I do like how they fly though compared to an A330 or A340 (any of either models -200, -300, -500 or -600)
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Nicoeddf
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Disclaimer: I am a MBA type, an engineer, and an entrepreneur :lol:


Guilty as well, I guess.

But yeah, maybe I am overinterpreting and look for nuances...and maybe they are indeed not to be expected here.


I am quite nuanced, but in my world - real live working word - bean counters did overtake everything. My business is real estate so you can imagine what I am talking about. Besides a good business case, I want to be a little proud of the things I do. In the real estate business, a lot of hit and run types are my competition.


Then, apart from the few drumming the ever dissatisfied "looking for somebody to blame that times have changed" type, I live in a different world. Aviation that is... ;)

Anyway, stay proud, nothing at all wrong with it :)
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DaveFly
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:59 am

I still enjoy the 777, have been on many of them. Primarily UA, DL, and LY. I like 3-3-3, hate 3-4-3. LY is odd, 3-3-3 with old dreadful IFE. As for other widebodies, the 767 beats all, A-330 is a nice ride, A-340 at LH was unbearable.

As for ‘bean counters,’ yes, I am one. I laugh when I explain that to be a successful bean counter, I spent four years as an accounting undergraduate, four addl years to get an MBA, two years of study to become a CPA. Probably more education than many other professions. You can heap as much scorn as you like. It’s a lifetime of hard work, and we don’t ‘count beans.’ Corporations are in business to earn a profit.
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BENAir01
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Re: I love/hate the Boeing 777

Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:03 pm

My first 777 flight was on CO EWR-TLV about 10 years ago in the (comfortable relative to today) 9 across Y. I’ve since flown it in AA business class JFK-HND-JFK, ORD-PEK, PVG-ORD, and in the new flat beds JFK-LHR. I think it’s a fantastically smooth and comfortable plane, and pilots I’ve talked to say it’s very easy to fly and very smooth and predictable (one pilot I talked who had recently flown 737s and was new to 777s was amazed at how stable it was on final). I also find it a perfect mix of some nice engine note on takeoff and quiet on cruise, unlike the A350, 380, and 787 which are too quiet on takeoff. Overall, lovely airplane.
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