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SQ789
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British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:24 pm

I took British Airways on the A321 from Heathrow to Glasgow recently and the seats was the most uncomfortable seating I've had. In addition, I also understood that all Short Haul flight either from LGW or LHR had already given an M&S Buy on Board which is a shocking things I've had. We cannot pay with cash, only credit cards and avios were accepted and even water is charged as well - I never seen like this before in another airline except cheap airline like BA! Second thing, aircraft is also dirty and no one seems responsible for cleaning it up. The most positive thing is the LHR lounge and the staff which are friendly. The most terrible thing is about the flight which is unacceptable than other airline. So far is BA going down to 3 or probably 2 star then?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:52 pm

SQ789 wrote:
We cannot pay with cash, only credit cards and avios were accepted and even water is charged as well - I never seen like this before in another airline except cheap airline like BA!

For what it's worth, JAL and ANA (airlines that are generally regarded as great) charge for F&B on domestic flights.

But yeah BA is an absolute joke, and so is Skytrax. Don't expect them to downgrade their 4-star rating anytime soon, unless IAG stop paying their totally-not-a-bribe annual Skytrax 'consultation fees'
 
global2
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:46 pm

I think charging for water has really crossed the line. On my last BA flignt in January (LHR-VCE) at least the flight attendant remembered that I wouldn't buy it and brought me a cup of "free" water after the service was over.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:18 pm

global2 wrote:
I think charging for water has really crossed the line. On my last BA flignt in January (LHR-VCE) at least the flight attendant remembered that I wouldn't buy it and brought me a cup of "free" water after the service was over.


I think that one came from the aircraft water tank. I had a similar experience on the 763 where you could either buy water, or get a cup of "tap" water for free. As much as I love the BA 767 (and I do love it), there's no way I'm drinking from those potable water tanks!

It really saddened me to see the otherwise excellent crews having to sell chips and coke.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
theobcman
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:51 pm

Whilst I agree that not giving even water on a flight just seems wrong, there is no way all this makes BA a “joke” ! If you cannot survive a domestic or european flight (most around two hours) without some ‘free’ food or drinks then poor you.

With multiple flights every day to each european city, long haul schedules worldwide, comfortable cabins (Love Club World!), T5 always a breeze actually makes them very far from a “joke” !

4 Star is exactly where they should be. Not that I take any notice of Skytrax !
 
jetwet1
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:33 pm

Should we discuss the very comfortable club Europe?

Or spending a few thousand on a club world ticket, then have to cough up more for seat selection, but hey, there is their international first class, which I would rate as one of the best international business classes out there.

So yeah, 4 star, not so much IMHO.
 
theobcman
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:29 pm

BA Club Europe is exactly same as any other european carrier but with better service & food.

Club World is no more expensive than anything else. A very pleasant way to fly long haul. Seat selection does have to be paid for unless you have status or for free 24 hours out.

First Class is very that. Apart from some Asian & a couple of ME carriers it’s as good as anything.

Just a shame it’s everyone’s favourite thing to do is bash BA !

I know you can’t please everyone but BA do a lot of things very well !
 
spacecadet
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:00 am

idp5601 wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
We cannot pay with cash, only credit cards and avios were accepted and even water is charged as well - I never seen like this before in another airline except cheap airline like BA!

For what it's worth, JAL and ANA (airlines that are generally regarded as great) charge for F&B on domestic flights.


Neither JL nor NH charge for beverages on domestic routes.

They have premium beverages like any airline, but they have free beverages like any (decent) airline too. They certainly do not charge for water.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
BritTraveller
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:18 am

I prefer the buy on board. You're not stuck to eating what they give you, you can choose what you want. And M&S is quite nice food.
 
theobcman
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:37 am

BritTraveller wrote:
I prefer the buy on board. You're not stuck to eating what they give you, you can choose what you want. And M&S is quite nice food.


Agree ! Exactly right.
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:52 am

spacecadet wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
We cannot pay with cash, only credit cards and avios were accepted and even water is charged as well - I never seen like this before in another airline except cheap airline like BA!

For what it's worth, JAL and ANA (airlines that are generally regarded as great) charge for F&B on domestic flights.


Neither JL nor NH charge for beverages on domestic routes.

They have premium beverages like any airline, but they have free beverages like any (decent) airline too. They certainly do not charge for water.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:04 am

theobcman wrote:
Whilst I agree that not giving even water on a flight just seems wrong, there is no way all this makes BA a “joke” ! If you cannot survive a domestic or european flight (most around two hours) without some ‘free’ food or drinks then poor you.

With multiple flights every day to each european city, long haul schedules worldwide, comfortable cabins (Love Club World!), T5 always a breeze actually makes them very far from a “joke” !

4 Star is exactly where they should be. Not that I take any notice of Skytrax !


The problem with BA is that there's a world of difference between their upper class product (business and first class, clubs, etc) and economy class. Those talking about the upper class praise them, those talking about economy class say it stinks. And you can't deny that the majority of all passengers fly economy class and by far most of them only short haul.

The reason BA stinks in economy class is obvious, they face heavy competition from LCCs. For example on the London-Glasgow route Ryanair and EasyJet both compete with them and despite not from Heathrow they do dilute the demand BA has for this route. It's becoming more reliant on transfer passengers since EasyJet and Ryanair are taking the O/D demand away, but you can't fill these flights with transfer passengers only. Now BA has two options. Either they keep up their service level and become too expensive or they lower their service level in order to compete on price. They've chosen the latter, however as a result their product has now become so crappy even Ryanair is better.
 
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PPVLC
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:33 am

theobcman wrote:
Whilst I agree that not giving even water on a flight just seems wrong, there is no way all this makes BA a “joke” ! If you cannot survive a domestic or european flight (most around two hours) without some ‘free’ food or drinks then poor you.

With multiple flights every day to each european city, long haul schedules worldwide, comfortable cabins (Love Club World!), T5 always a breeze actually makes them very far from a “joke” !

4 Star is exactly where they should be. Not that I take any notice of Skytrax !


I beg to differ, unfortunately BA standards are getting lower and lower, I'm not talking about BoB, I'm talking about cleanliness,quality of soft product and indifferent cabin crew. Even my friends who are cabin crew there tell me things are downhill, sad but true.
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
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passengerpigeon
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:15 am

I was about to say that a sandwich is just a sandwich, and that people would continue to fly BA for other, more significant things like airline mile earnings, included checked baggage and free seat selection, but then I remembered... oops, those were nerfed/enhanced on base fares too.

Although I don't live in the UK, I'd be hard-pressed to choose them now if I was booking flights from there, especially now that offerings like Ryanair's Business Plus have made it easier to pay upfront for LCC flights rather than being hit by extra charges.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:48 am

All European airlines suck, slimline seat, and even there business class sucks compare to American domestic first class service. Though Europeans have to compete with LCC and the railway competitors.
 
Chemist
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:35 am

It seems the entire airline world is flipping on its head. Supposed "full service" airlines even charge for water now. In the US you pay for seat selection and some (AA, UA) charge for carry-ons with "Basic" fares. Yet the "low cost" airlines like WN and B6 give free seat selection (B6) or free bags (WN). And they both provide free water; WN provides free snacks.
I'm preferentially avoiding UA and AA, preferring B6 or WN or AS whenever possible in the US. And I would avoid BA like the plague - that wouldn't have been the case a decade ago.
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:46 am

LH658 wrote:
All European airlines suck, slimline seat, and even there business class sucks compare to American domestic first class service. Though Europeans have to compete with LCC and the railway competitors.

TK and SU still offer real business class seating on their narrowbodies, so not an entirely accurate observation.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:31 pm

idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
All European airlines suck, slimline seat, and even there business class sucks compare to American domestic first class service. Though Europeans have to compete with LCC and the railway competitors.

TK and SU still offer real business class seating on their narrowbodies, so not an entirely accurate observation.


I am talking about the main European Carriers, TK is a bigger carrier than SU, though requires backtracking. AF, BA, LH, KL, SAS, and other carriers you don't back track to much. Those carriers have the slimline seats in business class, with barely any legroom etc. I think BA is the only one offering on some flights with full flat bed.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:45 pm

FWIW, I really like the BA pay for seats thing since I have oneworld status and it means that I can get decent seats on close-in bookings which is the whole idea of how they want it to work.

It's really easy to get bronze status which will get you seat selection at 7 days prior when there are usually still a fair amount available. And if flying long haul business class with any regularity, then you'll get silver status pretty quick, too.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:27 pm

LH658 wrote:
I am talking about the main European Carriers, TK is a bigger carrier than SU, though requires backtracking. AF, BA, LH, KL, SAS, and other carriers you don't back track to much. Those carriers have the slimline seats in business class, with barely any legroom etc. I think BA is the only one offering on some flights with full flat bed.


Not according to Seatguru. According to them out of their short haul fleet British Airways only has flat bed seats in their international A321s. Among the A319s, A320s and domestic/european A321s the configurations vary, but most of them offer 29 or 30 inch seat pitch. For comparison, KLM offers 33 inch in business and economy comfort and 30 inch in regular economy. Ryanair also offers 30 inch on their regular seats, so in some planes British Airways offers less legroom than Ryanair.

The flat bed seats are "club world" only, which means upper class. Those are the expensive tickets which most people can't afford. The majority of people fly in economy class where all other carriers beat British Airways. To me, business class is completely irrelevant. Far too expensive and I really don't need it. I'm comparing economy products and I really don't recommend British Airways in economy.

LupineChemist wrote:
FWIW, I really like the BA pay for seats thing since I have oneworld status and it means that I can get decent seats on close-in bookings which is the whole idea of how they want it to work.

It's really easy to get bronze status which will get you seat selection at 7 days prior when there are usually still a fair amount available. And if flying long haul business class with any regularity, then you'll get silver status pretty quick, too.


You're one of the lucky few, but you're viewing things from a very different perspective than the average person. You're a frequent flyer, most people aren't. They got no status and don't fly enough to ever get one. For you it's easy to get bronze or even silver, for them it's not. If they fly once or twice a year it's often, and that's not enough for any status. Plus they fly economy, if they got to pay for it themselves from an average wage they can't afford business class so therefor any upper class product is completely irrelevant. And then the choice is obvious. If they can choose between expensive and crappy British Airways or cheap and reasonably good Ryanair they pick the latter.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:48 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

You're one of the lucky few, but you're viewing things from a very different perspective than the average person. You're a frequent flyer, most people aren't. They got no status and don't fly enough to ever get one. For you it's easy to get bronze or even silver, for them it's not. If they fly once or twice a year it's often, and that's not enough for any status. Plus they fly economy, if they got to pay for it themselves from an average wage they can't afford business class so therefor any upper class product is completely irrelevant. And then the choice is obvious. If they can choose between expensive and crappy British Airways or cheap and reasonably good Ryanair they pick the latter.


But who are they most concerned with? The occasional flyer that will take the lowest fare no matter what and will be very low yielding or someone like me that pays 30k€ per year in TATL fares? (and I fly in economy). The people that choose on price are going to keep choosing on price and paying for seat selection one or two times won't break the bank. Particularly from London there is a very large business travel community and keeping them happy is more useful than keeping VFR or low cost vacation traffic happy.

And on many flights in Europe it's not rare for well more than half of passengers to have some sort of status.

In the meantime, I'm happier as a frequent flyer. (though don't get me started on the state of the showers of the LHR lounges)
 
LAXLHR
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:14 am

While I understand the argument for and against selling food onboard, I have a policy when it comes to Economy travel.

Prior to departure I purchase a bottle of water. If its going to be over 2 hours, I eat in the terminal before boarding or take a snack. I always have my laptop/tablet/phone so can entertain myself, basically I do not rely on the airline for any level of F&B or IFE. So no disappointments, no complaints.

As for uncomfortable seating (that is an issue) and Im looking into inflatable cushions :-)

WATER is a basic human right that should be FREE. Clean water, not from the nasty plane tank.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am

LH658 wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
All European airlines suck, slimline seat, and even there business class sucks compare to American domestic first class service. Though Europeans have to compete with LCC and the railway competitors.

TK and SU still offer real business class seating on their narrowbodies, so not an entirely accurate observation.


I am talking about the main European Carriers, TK is a bigger carrier than SU, though requires backtracking. AF, BA, LH, KL, SAS, and other carriers you don't back track to much. Those carriers have the slimline seats in business class, with barely any legroom etc. I think BA is the only one offering on some flights with full flat bed.

Really depends on where you're coming from. If you're from the East connecting on TK/SU to Europe requires little or zero backtracking.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:21 am

idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
TK and SU still offer real business class seating on their narrowbodies, so not an entirely accurate observation.


I am talking about the main European Carriers, TK is a bigger carrier than SU, though requires backtracking. AF, BA, LH, KL, SAS, and other carriers you don't back track to much. Those carriers have the slimline seats in business class, with barely any legroom etc. I think BA is the only one offering on some flights with full flat bed.

Really depends on where you're coming from. If you're from the East connecting on TK/SU to Europe requires little or zero backtracking.


LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, FRA, and MUC are far from each other mate. So someone flying CPH - ZRH - FRA or FRA - CDG - LHR isn't back tracking to much. This is a busy area upon traffic in Europe, compare to the Eastern side of Europe.
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:03 am

LH658 wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

I am talking about the main European Carriers, TK is a bigger carrier than SU, though requires backtracking. AF, BA, LH, KL, SAS, and other carriers you don't back track to much. Those carriers have the slimline seats in business class, with barely any legroom etc. I think BA is the only one offering on some flights with full flat bed.

Really depends on where you're coming from. If you're from the East connecting on TK/SU to Europe requires little or zero backtracking.


LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, FRA, and MUC are far from each other mate. So someone flying CPH - ZRH - FRA or FRA - CDG - LHR isn't back tracking to much. This is a busy area upon traffic in Europe, compare to the Eastern side of Europe.

I meant from the eastern part of the world (ie the Middle East and Asia), not Eastern Europe.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:24 pm

idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
Really depends on where you're coming from. If you're from the East connecting on TK/SU to Europe requires little or zero backtracking.


LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, FRA, and MUC are far from each other mate. So someone flying CPH - ZRH - FRA or FRA - CDG - LHR isn't back tracking to much. This is a busy area upon traffic in Europe, compare to the Eastern side of Europe.

I meant from the eastern part of the world (ie the Middle East and Asia), not Eastern Europe.


I am talking within Europe travel, mate.
 
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idp5601
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Re: British Airways going to 3 or 2 star?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:47 pm

LH658 wrote:
idp5601 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, FRA, and MUC are far from each other mate. So someone flying CPH - ZRH - FRA or FRA - CDG - LHR isn't back tracking to much. This is a busy area upon traffic in Europe, compare to the Eastern side of Europe.

I meant from the eastern part of the world (ie the Middle East and Asia), not Eastern Europe.


I am talking within Europe travel, mate.

I know that, just pointed out the context for the post you initially replied to. Did not mention intra-European travel whatsoever.

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