airbazar
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?


You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

Lol have you looked at the picture on the call bell? Your a server dude. In the very UNLIKEY event of an emergency landing you’ll pop a door.


Best answer so far :)
 
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AA777223
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:47 pm

flydude380 wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.


If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?


You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

While I often feel bad for all of the crap that FAs have to put up with, I do feel like people like you are a huge part of the problem. The very same FA who says get up and get your own drink will be the one who bitches about you being in the galley and invading their "office space" or would accuse you of stealing the drink. Like it or not, yes, safety is the primary purpose of your job. However, service is also a requirement of your occupation. It is you job to deliver drinks to passengers. If you are not doing that, you are not meeting the responsibilities of your JD, in which case, you should be fired. This, of course, would never happen, because most of you are union. Perhaps its the HR professional in me talking or the frequent traveler, I don't know. But this attitude is terrible and the whole reason that people complain about flying on US carriers.
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airbazar
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:53 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Flight Attendants are there for safety first, service second. Flight attendants are the first responders in medical events and are trained to use the medical equipment on board the aircraft. Medical events occur on board flights frequently, especially in the US where the majority of the population is a heart attack waiting to happen. .

My safety is part of the service they're supposed to be providing. Unfortunately a lot of FA's just stopped ignoring most of their duties and just focus on safety. Their training as some people here have pointed out, have more to do with protecting the airline from law suits and less to do with my safety. It's a natural instinct of every human being to help. If an FA ties to help and does a poor job, it subjects himself/herself/the airline to a lawsuit. That is why they receive extensive training. But their primary job is to serve the customers.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:13 pm

Let me first say that I too am always polite and friendly with any FAs I interact with and I have almost never actually had any issues with them or their behaviour.

But the use of the word "primarily" in relation to safety does irk me. I think people are kidding themselves a bit in that respect.

In a regulatory aspect, absolutely - in that case the FA's *only* role is safety-related.

But in all other aspects: interaction with customers; brand image; customer satisfaction (leading to repeat custom); direct and indirect generation of revenue; keeping people fed and watered; maintaining a level of cleanliness; ensuring on-time departures etc. etc. it is all about service! From the airline's point of view, they want to hire FA's more to fulfill a service role than just to get certified.

Honestly, service has to be the primary role from a linguistic and functional point of view.

I'm absolutely not knocking the safety aspect here, but let's not stretch the English language to mean something it doesn't.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:43 pm

flydude380 wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.


If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?


You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?


I don't know what planet you are on, but it's clear you are NOT the type of person that should be a FA if you say you are not required to get a beverage for someone ringing the call bell. I'm sorry, long time member and I don't post that much but this is the most absurd comment I've heard.

Some international airlines have more of a hands off policy and expect you to ring the bell. Let me tell you this, even on 2-2.5hour mainline United flights in Economy, they're passing through the aisles with trays of water/juice after the main beverage service. On a IAH-TPA flight they're was the main service plus 2 water/juice runs.

It's always the new members that come on here and think they're on FB. This used to be a very professional and information site. Sadly it's declined
 
JonathanRP
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:31 pm

I work for a major British international airline as cabin crew ("FAs" pretty much everywhere else in the world haha) and I've actually found the vast majority of my passengers to be pleasant, some are of course absolutely horrid but I've made it my thing to just take a deep breath, step back and think about why they might be so irritated...perhaps they've received bad news today, couldn't sleep, feeling unwell etc

Having worked in customer service roles all my life, this is just how it is, how any humans are, on any given day! I wouldn't do this job if I couldn't take someone being angry at me everyday.

At my airline, if I hear a call bell, I have to respond to it immediately - I don't particularly mind if it's just for a drink - if you're seated in a Y-seat, at the window and your fellow passengers are sleeping, it's quite difficult to get up and get a drink. It could be an emergency, and that's how I was trained to respond to every call bell...it could be for a Gin and tonic, but it could be for a fire or cardiac arrest.

If someone wants help with their bags, I understand that my job is a customer service role just as it is a safety role. I do this job because I like people, and I like helping them - if someone politely asks me to help them with their bag, I definitely will.

Going back to the OP, some of you may be surprised to hear - I do feel respected for my role in keeping the passengers safe and for the service aspect too. The passengers I have spoken to onboard, were completely aware that I have to be assertive when the parent doesn't want their baby on their lap for takeoff, or for the person refusing to put their bag in the overhead in an exit row, they completely respected that and I greatly appreciated that.

Granted, it seems to vary greatly from airline to airline and to different countries and cultures. From browsing on A.net since the early 2000s, FAs in the US seem to get a lot of negative press and viewed terribly - and so I feel sorry for those FAs at American-based airlines who try their hardest and serve with a smile, of which I've encountered on every flight I've had with multiple US-airlines.
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:53 pm

JonathanRP wrote:
I work for a major British international airline as cabin crew ("FAs" pretty much everywhere else in the world haha) and I've actually found the vast majority of my passengers to be pleasant, some are of course absolutely horrid but I've made it my thing to just take a deep breath, step back and think about why they might be so irritated...perhaps they've received bad news today, couldn't sleep, feeling unwell etc

Having worked in customer service roles all my life, this is just how it is, how any humans are, on any given day! I wouldn't do this job if I couldn't take someone being angry at me everyday.

At my airline, if I hear a call bell, I have to respond to it immediately - I don't particularly mind if it's just for a drink - if you're seated in a Y-seat, at the window and your fellow passengers are sleeping, it's quite difficult to get up and get a drink. It could be an emergency, and that's how I was trained to respond to every call bell...it could be for a Gin and tonic, but it could be for a fire or cardiac arrest.

If someone wants help with their bags, I understand that my job is a customer service role just as it is a safety role. I do this job because I like people, and I like helping them - if someone politely asks me to help them with their bag, I definitely will.

Going back to the OP, some of you may be surprised to hear - I do feel respected for my role in keeping the passengers safe and for the service aspect too. The passengers I have spoken to onboard, were completely aware that I have to be assertive when the parent doesn't want their baby on their lap for takeoff, or for the person refusing to put their bag in the overhead in an exit row, they completely respected that and I greatly appreciated that.

Granted, it seems to vary greatly from airline to airline and to different countries and cultures. From browsing on A.net since the early 2000s, FAs in the US seem to get a lot of negative press and viewed terribly - and so I feel sorry for those FAs at American-based airlines who try their hardest and serve with a smile, of which I've encountered on every flight I've had with multiple US-airlines.


Excellent post. In the US, airlines and airline staff are among the most loathed companies and people that there are. Any news article you read having to do with airlines will almost certainly be negative. Now is flying in the US worse than flying in the rest of the world? Perhaps in some respects. We often have much more stringent security requirements here, much to the agony of the travelling public. Flight attendants here also tend to emphasize the safety aspect of their jobs whereas in some countries, FA's are expected to put up with degrading behavior by customers. I think this culture of airline and airline employee hate in the US is largely due to media sensationalism. I recently had a family member get on a plane for the first time in 25 years. She was absolutely horrified because everything she had read in the paper and seen on the news led her to believe that flying nowadays is the most miserable experience you could imagine. After her flight, she couldn't stop telling me how impressed she was with how smooth everything went and how everyone she encountered, including the flight attendants, were absolutely delightful.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 618
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:17 pm

flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.



Your attitude sums up everything that could possibly be wrong with an FA. You never deserved to wear the uniform.



JonathanRP wrote:
I work for a major British international airline as cabin crew ("FAs" pretty much everywhere else in the world haha) and I've actually found the vast majority of my passengers to be pleasant, some are of course absolutely horrid but I've made it my thing to just take a deep breath, step back and think about why they might be so irritated...perhaps they've received bad news today, couldn't sleep, feeling unwell etc

Having worked in customer service roles all my life, this is just how it is, how any humans are, on any given day! I wouldn't do this job if I couldn't take someone being angry at me everyday.

At my airline, if I hear a call bell, I have to respond to it immediately - I don't particularly mind if it's just for a drink - if you're seated in a Y-seat, at the window and your fellow passengers are sleeping, it's quite difficult to get up and get a drink. It could be an emergency, and that's how I was trained to respond to every call bell...it could be for a Gin and tonic, but it could be for a fire or cardiac arrest.

If someone wants help with their bags, I understand that my job is a customer service role just as it is a safety role. I do this job because I like people, and I like helping them - if someone politely asks me to help them with their bag, I definitely will.

Going back to the OP, some of you may be surprised to hear - I do feel respected for my role in keeping the passengers safe and for the service aspect too. The passengers I have spoken to onboard, were completely aware that I have to be assertive when the parent doesn't want their baby on their lap for takeoff, or for the person refusing to put their bag in the overhead in an exit row, they completely respected that and I greatly appreciated that.

Granted, it seems to vary greatly from airline to airline and to different countries and cultures. From browsing on A.net since the early 2000s, FAs in the US seem to get a lot of negative press and viewed terribly - and so I feel sorry for those FAs at American-based airlines who try their hardest and serve with a smile, of which I've encountered on every flight I've had with multiple US-airlines.


While yours sums up why I still love to fly. I feel humbled. Thank you.
 
wjuddsonk
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:19 pm

As a flight attendant for a major US airline, I do take safety very seriously and I think it’s the most important aspect of flight but I also take service just as serious. I prefer the service aspect of the job! I’d much rather be working a cart, refilling drinks and chatting than walking up and down the aisle checking seatbelts. As for rude and grumpy passengers, honestly they are few and far between and I of all people understand travel isn’t always for pleasure so I’m just there to ease some tension and try to make it a nice flight anyway. Most of my passengers are a delight and I enjoy coming to work. (And my airline frequents the news stations quite often) As for seniority, it’s a wash. I work with veteran flight attendants who are gracious and wonderful and some who are bitter and grumpy and the same can be said for junior new hires and this is across the board. I’m not a new hire and I certainly don’t wear black sketchers to work just yet, but I want everyone to know there are crew out there who just want the best for you and for you to enjoy your short time with us.

As for call bells, ring as many times- I would love to go down a waist size in my pants!
 
JonathanRP
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:31 pm

Thank you TransWorldOne and Virtual737, hope to fly with you both one day!

I will not comment on other FA's opinions on the role, as much as I may disagree with them - everyone is different and I of course couldn't have an informed opinion of how they are treated or trained by their airline.

What I will say however, is that safety and emergency procedures was pretty much 99.5% of my training also, with just 2 days out of several weeks dedicated to customer service. We were chosen already for our service and demeanour, they just had to teach us safety. And I'm sorry, I do not buy FAs that use "safety" as an excuse to be nasty to passengers. Some people have never flown before, there are polite ways of telling someone to do something for their safety.

My airline is one of the very safest in the world, we do not skimp on safety or regulations. Regardless of if we're in the US or UK/Europe, we all abide by ICAO and FAA regulations anyway, so I don't know why some FAs may get this so-called "power trip" from, it's unnecessary!
 
Bald1983
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:41 pm

flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.


You have a deplorable attitude. Sounds like you hate your customers and your company. (I am assuming, based on the level of vitriol, that you are a disgruntled flight attendant.) You are correct the primary purpose of the cabin crew is for safety and security. However, you are also on the front lines presenting your company and providing service. Airlines are a service industry. They provide service. They deliver the product the company gives in cabin service. That does not mean a flight attendant your personal slave, or anything close, but they are there to serve the product. So, if I want to purchase an extra snack box, I should be able, at least to some reasonable degree, to order one and purchase it. If I have a question, again, being reasonable, I should be able to ask the question. As a passenger, unless I am being disruptive, I should be treated with courtesy. If I have a complaint about the food, the FA should, on behalf of her or his company care and pass that to the company. I do not know what airline you work for, assuming you are a flight attendant, but I do not believe that helping oneself to the beverage cart would be appreciated by the cabin crew. I would also feel sorry for your company and your customers.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:26 pm

I have flown a lot over the years and always treat flight attendants with respect and always say thank you and please. Never had one negative issue with a FA.
 
flydude380
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:30 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.


You have a deplorable attitude. Sounds like you hate your customers and your company. (I am assuming, based on the level of vitriol, that you are a disgruntled flight attendant.) You are correct the primary purpose of the cabin crew is for safety and security. However, you are also on the front lines presenting your company and providing service. Airlines are a service industry. They provide service. They deliver the product the company gives in cabin service. That does not mean a flight attendant your personal slave, or anything close, but they are there to serve the product. So, if I want to purchase an extra snack box, I should be able, at least to some reasonable degree, to order one and purchase it. If I have a question, again, being reasonable, I should be able to ask the question. As a passenger, unless I am being disruptive, I should be treated with courtesy. If I have a complaint about the food, the FA should, on behalf of her or his company care and pass that to the company. I do not know what airline you work for, assuming you are a flight attendant, but I do not believe that helping oneself to the beverage cart would be appreciated by the cabin crew. I would also feel sorry for your company and your customers.


I got bored of responding. So, I’ll try and make this the last one. Especially, as everything has been taken out of context. But no. I’m not a FA anymore. However, if we are to talk about my customer service skills, then perhaps you should know that I was actually well known for my customer service based on the 10+ reviews I’ve received, a recommendation from supervisors that I should work in customer relations and other ways people thanked me for my service.

Why would FAs hate you for helping yourself? Myself and no one I ever came across would! That is one of the reasons why drinks and snacks are at your fingertips. Want something in particular? Just ask!

I agree there are some crew who won’t go out there way to do beverage rounds. However, I wasn’t one those bad apples!
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:34 pm

Flight attendants are there for safety first, I 100 percent agree. Flight attendants are also brand ambassadors. They are likely the one airline employee that the flying public has contact with. You book your reservation usually online, you check in online, the gate agent generally just scans your boarding pass. You drop your bag and they tag it. The pilot is flying an airplane behind a closed door. So in addition to safety it is really important that a flight attendant represent that brand of the airline as they are the employee that we all as flying public have the most contact with.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:01 pm

flydude380 wrote:
I’m not a FA anymore. ..


I hope you are not training FAs.

99% of passengers are reasonable and 99% FAs are reasonable.

1% passengers are call button warriors and 1% FAs are power trip leaders.
 
alesfr
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:31 pm

I think we're all aware here that the job is a balance between safety and service. Back in the days companies would look for certified nurses to become FAs, now in the requirements/job description they focus very much on experience and background in customer relation and service. I think that to be a good cabin crew (term which I find more appropriate than "flight attendant") you need to like helping and working with people, and have personal characteristics which make you reliable in the event of an emergency.

As for those who complain about cabin crew, I think that likewise any other job, it is inevitable that some of them are more professional than others, or more kind and passionate than others. And many should keep in mind that "good morning", "please" and "thank you" are the some of the keys for a better world ;-)
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Swadian
Posts: 539
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:21 pm

blooc350 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.



The definition of an "Attendant":
noun
1.a person employed to provide a service to the public in a particular place.
"a flight attendant"

synonyms: steward, waiter, waitress, garçon, porter, servant, waitperson, stewardess; More

This is why U.S airlines have the WORST service in the world. Their "Flight Attendants" think they are here for my "safety", which i get, but your duty is also to provide a sense of service, based on your "Job Description, title, and role". If Americans are adament on saying their flight crew are mainly there for "Safety" then dont call them an "Attendant". Change their title and job description to "Air safety Marshall or safety personnel"


In this case, I agree that the term "attendant" implies service, not safety and perhaps the name of the position should be changed to "Airman" or something that more appropriately reflects their job.

tonystan wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
Galwayman wrote:
I’m not convinced they’re really necessary anymore and would be happy to fly in an aircraft without them , perhaps in the future passengers can do some online annual certification and earn and maintain an annual fitness to travel certification

Personally I feel a bit sorry for them , low pay, long shift work, boredom . Most are very pleasant but in the legacy airlines ( seniority ) there’s a sense of entitlement and seething resentment towards the passengers from many of the cabin crew

I don’t think any of them will make a difference in an emergency to be honest



Don’t know where to start with this mate!

Firstly, regulators disagree with you and they clearly have more experience in the matter. You would probably die in a serious incident without the crew and the insight they have to the psychology of normal passengers in an emergency and how they react. It may not be the impact, or the broken up aircraft or even the fire which could kill you, it would probably be the reaction of others around you. It has been proven, documented and celebrated globally many many many times over recent years and there is even study on the matter. There is a reason each aircraft has a minimum crew compliment. The recent Emirates crash is a fine example, passengers punching cabin crew as they attempted to redirect passengers away from a danger!

Also, I’m one of those “legacy”, “seniroty” crew. Iv a good salary and excellent lifestyle. I certainly don’t come to work with an entitled attitude, I’m nice to everyone & I rarely see otherwise from my colleagues. What I do see however from time to time, is customers with an attitude towards me, people, like yourself with some sort of prejudice or resentment without even having met or spoken to me beforehand. It’s actually bizarre and really only something I experience from UK and Irish customers, guess it’s just that good old fashioned begrudgery.

Now some of the other comments on here, especially from the US are a bit shocking. Don’t sign up for the job if you’re after a power trip. Airlines are part of the service industry and as such the balance needs to be found between polite friendly service and enforcing the rule of law relating to safety. It is an easy thing to do, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. One does not need to be subservient like some airlines in the Far East nor do people need to be like mini-hitlers in polyester!


Well, "attendants" are not required on trains, buses, or ships and any attendants present are indeed hired for "service" purposes.

sw733 wrote:
26point2 wrote:
I’m just a regular guy who flies coach nearly all the time. I don’t ask for anything and don’t expect the FAs to do anything for me except perhaps smile a bit more. I have on occasion flown business/first class on US domestic and notice that, not surprisingly, the level of attention from the FAs is, dare I say it, like it was in coach many years ago. But one thing that puzzles me is why the surliness in coach and the gentleness in business class? Is it that FAs working business class pretend to be nice or do they actually enjoy working with the pax? Why do the folks back in Coach deserve to be treated any differently?


I've had great FAs in Economy, and borderline horrible FAs in Business and First. Yes, generally, I notice better service in Business or First, but it's by no means a guarantee. Really, truly a couple of the best FA experiences I've ever had were in Economy on "mediocre" airlines (I'm remembering AA and Air India specifically).


Agreed, for all their other service complaints, AA FAs seem to be the most relatable to Economy passengers. Some do hide in the galley but do not exhibit outward rudeness. UA FAs seem more likely to act entitled and rude. However, I do not wish to overly generalize.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3243
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:51 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m just a regular guy who flies coach nearly all the time. I don’t ask for anything and don’t expect the FAs to do anything for me except perhaps smile a bit more. I have on occasion flown business/first class on US domestic and notice that, not surprisingly, the level of attention from the FAs is, dare I say it, like it was in coach many years ago. But one thing that puzzles me is why the surliness in coach and the gentleness in business class? Is it that FAs working business class pretend to be nice or do they actually enjoy working with the pax? Why do the folks back in Coach deserve to be treated any differently?


Maybe if the average passenger in coach these days acted like they know how to be out in public the FA's would be nicer. But for god sake this "there here to serve us attitude shows a lot of the problem. So if you think they are there to serve you vs for emergency necessity. Then give them the 18-25% tip you give at a restaurant. Don't tip a waiter and see how good your service is then next time you eat there!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3243
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:59 pm

AA777223 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?


You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

While I often feel bad for all of the crap that FAs have to put up with, I do feel like people like you are a huge part of the problem. The very same FA who says get up and get your own drink will be the one who bitches about you being in the galley and invading their "office space" or would accuse you of stealing the drink. Like it or not, yes, safety is the primary purpose of your job. However, service is also a requirement of your occupation. It is you job to deliver drinks to passengers. If you are not doing that, you are not meeting the responsibilities of your JD, in which case, you should be fired. This, of course, would never happen, because most of you are union. Perhaps its the HR professional in me talking or the frequent traveler, I don't know. But this attitude is terrible and the whole reason that people complain about flying on US carriers.



Great response. You rock
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:49 pm

flydude380 wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.


You have a deplorable attitude. Sounds like you hate your customers and your company. (I am assuming, based on the level of vitriol, that you are a disgruntled flight attendant.) You are correct the primary purpose of the cabin crew is for safety and security. However, you are also on the front lines presenting your company and providing service. Airlines are a service industry. They provide service. They deliver the product the company gives in cabin service. That does not mean a flight attendant your personal slave, or anything close, but they are there to serve the product. So, if I want to purchase an extra snack box, I should be able, at least to some reasonable degree, to order one and purchase it. If I have a question, again, being reasonable, I should be able to ask the question. As a passenger, unless I am being disruptive, I should be treated with courtesy. If I have a complaint about the food, the FA should, on behalf of her or his company care and pass that to the company. I do not know what airline you work for, assuming you are a flight attendant, but I do not believe that helping oneself to the beverage cart would be appreciated by the cabin crew. I would also feel sorry for your company and your customers.


I make it a point to respond. Your remarks are still deplorable and I am glad you no longer are a flight attendant.

I got bored of responding. So, I’ll try and make this the last one. Especially, as everything has been taken out of context. But no. I’m not a FA anymore. However, if we are to talk about my customer service skills, then perhaps you should know that I was actually well known for my customer service based on the 10+ reviews I’ve received, a recommendation from supervisors that I should work in customer relations and other ways people thanked me for my service.

Why would FAs hate you for helping yourself? Myself and no one I ever came across would! That is one of the reasons why drinks and snacks are at your fingertips. Want something in particular? Just ask!

I agree there are some crew who won’t go out there way to do beverage rounds. However, I wasn’t one those bad apples!
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:13 am

alesfr wrote:
I think we're all aware here that the job is a balance between safety and service. Back in the days companies would look for certified nurses to become FAs, now in the requirements/job description they focus very much on experience and background in customer relation and service. I think that to be a good cabin crew (term which I find more appropriate than "flight attendant") you need to like helping and working with people, and have personal characteristics which make you reliable in the event of an emergency.

As for those who complain about cabin crew, I think that likewise any other job, it is inevitable that some of them are more professional than others, or more kind and passionate than others. And many should keep in mind that "good morning", "please" and "thank you" are the some of the keys for a better world ;-)


I cannot recall ever having a cabin crew that warranted a complaint. Some warranted compliments and I recall sending one.
 
twicearound
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:36 pm

F27500 wrote:
The flight attendant position is (and will always be) linked to the earlier “stewardess” days when it WAS all about service, friendliness, personality and looks. Certainly its not any more. That, and the fact that airlines do still expect their FAs to provide beverage/food service to its customers. So FAs will always have this “service” tag attached to them .. in addition to their safety related duties . And that’s fine .. they know that going in to the job.

Is it a position of responsibility? Of course it is. So is a ramp agent .. so is a fueler.. so is a pilot.

I think there are just as many people who over inflate and over exaggerate the FA position nowadays too (and right here on this very site). “Safety professionals” .. ok .. to a degree. You’re not a nurse, though, or a police officer, or a soldier. . Some make it seem like FAs are on that level. They’re not. They’re people who are hired, trained for about 6 weeks and then sent into the aisles. This is not a degreed or credentialed position or one that requires even any form of certification prior.

Like it or not, its basically an airborne cabin monitor and customer service position. Do most FAs work hard? Sure. Can it be a sucky job dealing with the public? Sure. But are there some lazy, bullying FAs? Definitely. And others in airline industry, like ticket counter and gate agents, work every bit as as hard as FAs.

To the member above (whose name I won’t mention for fear of violating any forum rules about hurting each others feelings) .. what airline do you know of that tells their FAs they are not obligated to to answer call buttons for Coach passengers after their one service is completed? And you contradicted yourself completely by saying “but of course its different up in Premium Classes where FAs should be expected to serve passengers at their seat and answer call bells”. I thought, according to you, they were there only for safety and security. You sound ridiculous.


Wrong on the certification part. Every part121 FA in the US must be certified and licensed by the FAA, and maintain current qualifications yearly to hold their airman licence.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2312
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:47 pm

twicearound wrote:
F27500 wrote:
The flight attendant position is (and will always be) linked to the earlier “stewardess” days when it WAS all about service, friendliness, personality and looks. Certainly its not any more. That, and the fact that airlines do still expect their FAs to provide beverage/food service to its customers. So FAs will always have this “service” tag attached to them .. in addition to their safety related duties . And that’s fine .. they know that going in to the job.

Is it a position of responsibility? Of course it is. So is a ramp agent .. so is a fueler.. so is a pilot.

I think there are just as many people who over inflate and over exaggerate the FA position nowadays too (and right here on this very site). “Safety professionals” .. ok .. to a degree. You’re not a nurse, though, or a police officer, or a soldier. . Some make it seem like FAs are on that level. They’re not. They’re people who are hired, trained for about 6 weeks and then sent into the aisles. This is not a degreed or credentialed position or one that requires even any form of certification prior.

Like it or not, its basically an airborne cabin monitor and customer service position. Do most FAs work hard? Sure. Can it be a sucky job dealing with the public? Sure. But are there some lazy, bullying FAs? Definitely. And others in airline industry, like ticket counter and gate agents, work every bit as as hard as FAs.

To the member above (whose name I won’t mention for fear of violating any forum rules about hurting each others feelings) .. what airline do you know of that tells their FAs they are not obligated to to answer call buttons for Coach passengers after their one service is completed? And you contradicted yourself completely by saying “but of course its different up in Premium Classes where FAs should be expected to serve passengers at their seat and answer call bells”. I thought, according to you, they were there only for safety and security. You sound ridiculous.


Wrong on the certification part. Every part121 FA in the US must be certified and licensed by the FAA, and maintain current qualifications yearly to hold their airman licence.


No, he was right the first time. Read it again. What does it say?
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
User avatar
WNerWNerPnutdnr
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:39 am

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Tue May 01, 2018 4:43 am

This is about the most rediculous thread I think I’ve ever read on here. Thanks to those who have kept the discussion positive rather than stir up the pot with a nasty spoon. Many of us airline employees in here watch silently and roll our eyes and/or laugh our butts off when folks post things they know nothing about. Must be a very comfy armchair!

I’ve been a Flight Attendant for 25 years and I still love my job AND my customers AND my colleagues.

Who cares what the public’s view is?
They will judge no matter what, no matter what the profession. It’s pretty common, in our society today, for folks to judge and criticize, especially when they have NEVER walked a mile in someone else’s shoes.

I know my job and what I signed on for. Most of the public’s view is subjective anyway, and we have airline companies to thank for that based on the whole sexy flight attendant and “meals fit for a king” marketing approach that was done in the 60’s and 70’s. Then came the service cuts deregulation and bankruptcies and all of the good stuff was taken away and flying turned into a lackluster experience for both employees and customers. Reminder: the employees did not make these decisions. It’s challenging to offer good service, when one has to apologize for removals of service tools or components that were once part of the experience in ALL cabins, and nothing left to do but apologize at best. It’s very common for customers to write in a complaint about something that is largely out of an employees control, and because they didn’t like the “I’m sorry”.

Personally I dislike when I hear that I’m onboard primarily for someone’s safety. I already know that. But I know that customers don’t really believe that. But I also know that I am onboard for so much MORE than that. Gimme a break folks.......puh- leeeez ....I’ve driven customers home in a snowstorm because they were stranded at my home airport, saved a guys life who had a heart attack during boarding, gave a guy one of my uniform shirts to wear for his important same day presentation after his ink pen leaked and ruined his clothes, played tour guide for some folks who had never been to Amsterdam before and spoon fed a lady traveling alone who had a disability and difficulty eating. Go ahead judge me and the others. We will be the ones sleeping better at night.

That said........

Safety is the most important service we provide. And what does that look like? It’s about creating and environment where customers feel safe, valued, cared for AND appreciated. If a customer doesn’t like the cabin temp, I do something about it. If the customer wants more peanuts, I’ll get them more peanuts. If they have a food allergy or didn’t have time to grab something in the terminal, I’ll do my best to figure something out. If they are worried about their connection, I will get them some help. If they are experiencing a heart attack I will tend to them according to my training (yes we are trained on basic first aid and CPR) along with any medical personnel who may help onboard. If someone is scared of flying, I will re assure them and hold their hand if they need it. If they want a CAN of coke, I will give them the can (supplies permitting.... if not will find an alternative).

Many customers don’t even really have a clue what my job is or the training involved or any of the behind the scenes stuff that makes it all look so easy - nor should they care....let them perceive what they want. Those who say “they aren’t needed” or “it’s basically just a cabin monitor” or “wait person in the sky”......well that’s just ignorance. Ya can’t enlighten the unconscious. One only has to read books or google the history of the Flight Attendant profession to learn about it. Also, there are many stories of “heroics in the cabin” posted online......

Yeah there rude Flight Attendants (every job has its bad apples- try working with them!) and there are rude customers. No different than any other service profession. Some companies hire for different things. At my airline, people are hired for attitude and trained for skill. It’s all about the delivery and presentation. Nothing justifies treating another human being without mutual respect. Civility my friends! It’s a two way street....

If you believe, as I do, that most folks are going through life just tryna do the best they can, then the last thing we need on this discussion board is another tired old thread about judging someone’s chosen profession, especially when folks post stuff they know nothing about yet only what they perceive or “I heard”.....

Move on talk about something else. “And we look forward to flying with you again soon”........
We have a strategic plan, it’s called doing things.....
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Wed May 02, 2018 1:01 am

ckfred wrote:
I think most people think of FAs as they do for any other job. There are truly outstanding FAs. Most do their job reasonably well. A few fit into the category, "How did he or she get hired and passed training?"

Most people I know understand that an FA has a duel role. The primary role, but the one that most people don't see, is the safety role. The FA will do his or her best to deal with people in an emergency, whether there is a safety issue with the aircraft or a passenger becomes sick and needs medical attention.

The other role is keeping passengers comfortable, whether it's serving drinks and food or showing how to adjust a seat and the like.


Agreed. After 100's of flights I can count the bad FA experiences on one had, whereas I can't count the good examples on both hands. Most know that they have a dual role of safety/service and provide it.

It's also not the FA's fault that you have people like Scott Kirby or DUI Dougie running their companies who see the employees/customers as the enemy. It saddens me when someone takes it out on a front-line employee when they had no say in the decision.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
ckfred
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Thu May 03, 2018 6:38 pm

Super80Fan wrote:

Agreed. After 100's of flights I can count the bad FA experiences on one had, whereas I can't count the good examples on both hands. Most know that they have a dual role of safety/service and provide it.

It's also not the FA's fault that you have people like Scott Kirby or DUI Dougie running their companies who see the employees/customers as the enemy. It saddens me when someone takes it out on a front-line employee when they had no say in the decision.


The issue of CEOs and other senior officers getting into it with rank-and-file employees is not new. My father worked in labor relations for a Fortune 50 company in the 1970s. Maybe it wasn't so much a disregard for the employees as it was for union bosses, who also saw things as "us versus them."

If the company did well, union bosses would ask for generous raises during contract negotiations, wanting "their fair share." If the company did poorly, they still asked for generous raises. The argument was, "Just because the suits in Chicago screwed up doesn't mean we have to suffer with them."

As easy as it is to blame Scott and Doug, let's remember that Wall Street thinks that only point that matters it the bottom line, and that customers and employees are annoyances that should not expect to be treated well, since that costs money. I've read more than a few times that Wall Street analysts still think that Southwest should charge for bags. Southwest executives show data that would indicate that many of their passengers would switch, if the policy changed. So, the revenue gained for charging for checked bags would be offset by passengers defecting to AA, UA, and DL.

Analysts think WN executives are lying about the people who will switch. And maybe that is true, since the loss of bookings at United, after the doctor was dragged off a UA Express flight, didn't last that long. Still, when Wall Street chastises a company for trying to treat customers and employees well, it puts management in a bind.

The last thing a CEO needs is someone like Carl Icahn or Norman Peltz, claiming you don't know how to run your business and starting a proxy battle for seats on the board.
 
Airstud
Posts: 4681
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Fri May 04, 2018 1:08 am

See, "The Public" doesn't think one way or another.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 957
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Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Sat May 05, 2018 3:42 am

I view flight attendants as professional and friendly humans. Flight attendants are the final human contact after the stressful obstacle course from curbside to boarding gate. Passengers go through these layers of ground interaction until they decide how to take out their frustrations. THEN the flight finally begins and “we’ve only just begun.” And for this, I feel sorry for flight attendants.

For example, I flew DELTA from NRT to SFO and I witnessed some unfortunate moments for the cabin crew.

Boarding was nearly completed until it was announced on the PA that our pushback to SFO would be delayed by approximately 45 minutes due to the late-arriving passengers from the delayed arrival of a DELTA flight from Shanghai. It happens.

It was the plastic shopping bags from Narita Airport that I recognized in those passengers hands during the boarding process that irked me and my seat neighbor (and the crew, I’m sure).

While waiting for the restroom after the first meal service, I witnessed a passenger ignore the comments of the flight attendant after he took her water bottle as she was enjoying her meal while on break at the rear galley. A beverage cart was clearly on display near the galley. The look on his face was quite the opposite of charmed, however, he looked as if he could not find the words to respond, so he walked away with said water bottle in his hands.

Later, a little girl vomited on the floor of her seat row because she did not use her air sickness bag. The little girl was seated at the last row of Y, so the bad smell flooded the rear galley; the cabin crew workspace.

I witnessed passengers who got up to open the overhead bin while on the active taxiway just moments after landing while our 767 was moving.

After all of those headaches, I am pleased to report I enjoyed a truly professional and friendly service on that flight. (Actually, on all 4 of my Tokyo to San Francisco DL flights, they were all consistently positive).
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Thu May 10, 2018 12:19 pm

twicearound wrote:
F27500 wrote:
The flight attendant position is (and will always be) linked to the earlier “stewardess” days when it WAS all about service, friendliness, personality and looks. Certainly its not any more. That, and the fact that airlines do still expect their FAs to provide beverage/food service to its customers. So FAs will always have this “service” tag attached to them .. in addition to their safety related duties . And that’s fine .. they know that going in to the job.

Is it a position of responsibility? Of course it is. So is a ramp agent .. so is a fueler.. so is a pilot.

I think there are just as many people who over inflate and over exaggerate the FA position nowadays too (and right here on this very site). “Safety professionals” .. ok .. to a degree. You’re not a nurse, though, or a police officer, or a soldier. . Some make it seem like FAs are on that level. They’re not. They’re people who are hired, trained for about 6 weeks and then sent into the aisles. This is not a degreed or credentialed position or one that requires even any form of certification prior.

Like it or not, its basically an airborne cabin monitor and customer service position. Do most FAs work hard? Sure. Can it be a sucky job dealing with the public? Sure. But are there some lazy, bullying FAs? Definitely. And others in airline industry, like ticket counter and gate agents, work every bit as as hard as FAs.

To the member above (whose name I won’t mention for fear of violating any forum rules about hurting each others feelings) .. what airline do you know of that tells their FAs they are not obligated to to answer call buttons for Coach passengers after their one service is completed? And you contradicted yourself completely by saying “but of course its different up in Premium Classes where FAs should be expected to serve passengers at their seat and answer call bells”. I thought, according to you, they were there only for safety and security. You sound ridiculous.


Wrong on the certification part. Every part121 FA in the US must be certified and licensed by the FAA, and maintain current qualifications yearly to hold their airman licence.


That's true. However, even though F/A's have a little green card issued by the FAA and it looks like mine it is not a true airman certificate as defined in title 49 of the United States Code. It is what's known as a "Certificate of Demonstrated Proficiency" one of the differences being it is issued AFTER an airline provides in house training that is a approved by the FAA. Unlike Pilots, Mechanics and Dispatchers who have to posses their certificate BEFORE they are hired and have gone through training and schooling and actual FAA written and oral and practical exams and then they also go through additional airline training for their jobs.

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviatio ... FACert.pdf
 
n92r03
Posts: 495
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: The Public's View on Flight Attendants

Thu May 10, 2018 8:33 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:
I seem to have very good experiences. I say hello, please , thank you, exchange a few pleasantries. They’re treated like crap these days and by just being friendly, you see smiles return to their faces.

When UA has the Dao incident and everyone bashing UA CSA’s, I was flying that week and picked up s couple of candy bars for the gate agents. I approached them and discretely said I’ve been in their shoes, I know it’s been a hard week, thank you.

Did a lot of international travel last year on UA to Asia using miles (catch those last 747 rides) and I bought a box of see’s candies for the crew.

When I was CSA l made sure to take care of my non revs/commuters. Professional courtesy. So imagine my surprise when they returned, I’d frequently and unexpectedly get little gifts. Good goes around.

When flying WN, I get early boarding, but head straight to the back (unless connecting) and put my bag in the overhead, backpack under the seat, and all settled while the huddled masses in A group are bottlenecked up front.

Got this attitude from 39 years ago when non-rev travel was truly a privilege.

So maybe next time, say good morning as you board. Have a really good crew? Let them no when deplaning.



Amen, agreed 100%. Just take a look at the flying public these days and how they act. No way I could deal with them.

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