I have came to a thought one day, that more people think of them as a sky-version of a server at your local Applebees or Chilies, when they are meant to be Service Providers and Safety in cases. So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them, and how they are enforcing policies of the airline or the FAA? Or do you believe that they have overstepped in some cases and need some restricting even in their place of Safety Provider.

PanzerPowner wrote:

So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them

Yes. Some people think that they're their servants, others think that they're people on a power trip, and still others think they're there to flirt with.

In all cases, I compare them to doctors, lawyers, and cops-- so many people treat them badly, until they NEED one's help.

PanzerPowner wrote:

I have came to a thought one day, that more people think of them as a sky-version of a server at your local Applebees or Chilies, when they are meant to be Service Providers and Safety in cases. So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them, and how they are enforcing policies of the airline or the FAA? Or do you believe that they have overstepped in some cases and need some restricting even in their place of Safety Provider.

Hmmm... Open a thread by going to extremes straight off the bat. So basically, you're trying to start a fight here. Got it.

LAX772LR wrote:

In all cases, I compare them to doctors, lawyers, and cops-- so many people treat them badly, until they NEED one's help.

I think that's somewhat flattering to those involved, for better or worse. It can easily be the opposite, where someone never had an issue or treated them badly... Until an FA gave them a really great reason to. I've seen non reving FAs start fights with ten year old children over window seats too.

In any case, as far as safety goes, the best way is to look at them like seat belts. You have have to have them, but it's best when they're out of your way enough not to be a problem.

As far as service standards go, the old "we're here only for safety" saw should never be accepted as an excuse for rudeness or laziness.
If this is not an issue, I see no need to demand extras or expect them to act as servants above a given carriers standards.

TDLR; I don't see what's so hard about having an overall neutral going toward apathetic view on these things.

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

And that attitude ladies and gentlemen is
THE problem with many US flight attendants


That sense of entitlement and hostility is a big part of why traveling on American carriers is such a trying experience

Max Q wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

And that attitude ladies and gentlemen is
THE problem with many US flight attendants


That sense of entitlement and hostility is a big part of why traveling on American carriers is such a trying experience

Why is it such a trying experience? Because you want someone to stow away your very own carry-on that you managed to pack and transport with you? Because you think FAs should be at your feet when you’ve pushed that call bell for a beverage? Because you refuse to accept and/or comprehend that FAs have a safety and security role?

For those who want to be spoiled in the name of customer service, may I recommend you visit your nearest restaurant upon arrival. In the meantime, let your FAs ensure your safety and security getting you to your destination.

I’m not convinced they’re really necessary anymore and would be happy to fly in an aircraft without them , perhaps in the future passengers can do some online annual certification and earn and maintain an annual fitness to travel certification

Personally I feel a bit sorry for them , low pay, long shift work, boredom . Most are very pleasant but in the legacy airlines ( seniority ) there’s a sense of entitlement and seething resentment towards the passengers from many of the cabin crew

I don’t think any of them will make a difference in an emergency to be honest

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

flydude380 wrote:

Max Q wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

And that attitude ladies and gentlemen is
THE problem with many US flight attendants


That sense of entitlement and hostility is a big part of why traveling on American carriers is such a trying experience

Why is it such a trying experience? Because you want someone to stow away your very own carry-on that you managed to pack and transport with you? Because you think FAs should be at your feet when you’ve pushed that call bell for a beverage? Because you refuse to accept and/or comprehend that FAs have a safety and security role?

For those who want to be spoiled in the name of customer service, may I recommend you visit your nearest restaurant upon arrival. In the meantime, let your FAs ensure your safety and security getting you to your destination.

The security part of their role is not an excuse for neglecting the service part. Obviously security takes priority but airlines are also businesses that want to attract customers and if their workers get the idea that they don't need to provide good service that is bad for the business. If the plane has some kind of emergency then of course they can forget about the meal service but "we're here only for safety" is no excuse for sitting the galley for the whole flight catching up on the latest gossip whilst ignoring the call bell or being generally rude or lazy.

The relationship of flight attendants and passengers has considerably changed over the years. That F/A's may be the only human of the airline pax will have contact with makes them easy targets and in turn more hostile behaviors by F/A's. It is a vicious circle.
The changes in the industry to hold down costs with cuts or flat pay despite increasing costs of living. The increasing cramming of pax on planes, less service, too many carry ons and general decline of behaviors of pax. Still lingering sexism and classism. Social media, the ability to take pictures and video then post in minutes if something the least bit 'wrong' happens. With more employment options in particular for women over the decades, there has been a decline in the quality of candidates. That for USA and EC airlines, they cannot be sexist in their choice of persons who can become or continue to be a F/A.
There is a terrible mix of issues for most USA/EC airline flight attendants, not unlike the rest of life today.

Bongodog1964 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

I have a lot of time and sympathy for flight attendants, generally. They are not well paid (the perks do not outweigh a decent living wage for a job that comes with a lot of stress). They are the front lines of customer service for an industry that views its customers warily. The nature of the industry is what has made flying an ordeal generally. The passengers for the most part, are a close second. People's civility seems to get checked at the door of the aircraft often. My policy on flight attendants is to say please and thank you and let them do their jobs.

Please keep in mind that the way people see FA's differs from country to country. It's a cultural perception, in some countries - I refuse to drop names here- people who wear uniforms have a gigantic sense of entitlement but this doesn't apply to other cultures. There are aviation enthusiasts from all over the world in this forum so we will never have a fair consensus on this matter...

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That is bull crap of the highest level.
That is just an excuse to keep them from doing the full job they're supposed to be doing.
If security was so high on their priority list, airlines wouldn't outsource exit row procedures to passengers, most of which have never open an airplane door on their own and some might be riding in an airplane for the very first time. If the FA's role was primarily to be there for my safety and security, there would be an FA seated in front of every exit on the plane to coordinate emergency procedures. But that is not the case and it debunks quite clearly the idea that they are there primarily for our safety and security.
Flight Attendants are there to serve the airline's customers. Yes providing a safe and secure environment is part of the their job but it's far from being all that they're there for. In fact it's quite secondary.

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

So why can't airlines outsource in-flight service to some other company?

Have a couple of cabin safety monitors, for safety and security.

Cointrin330 wrote:

My policy on flight attendants is to say please and thank you and let them do their jobs.

This is what I do. But I feel embarrassed for the airline when you get that one FA who does not give service with a smile and acts bothered by the passenger. I know after a long day things get trying and its harder and harder to act gracious on the job though. This is why long duty days are not good for anyone, including the passengers.

FAs are there primarily for your safety, but they can and should still make the passenger as comfortable as possible while on the flight.

The passengers, on the other hand, could also stop being so needy. Is there a reason to ask for 4 drinks at the same time??

flydude380 wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

I am comprehending what you are saying, you're saying that passengers are far too demanding and flight attendants don't have to offer much in the way of service to economy passengers. I very much doubt the employers see it the same way. As one example VS has always heavily promoted their cabin crews in their adverts, tv ads showing a posse of smiling VS staff in their bright red outfits walking through the terminal to the plane ready to serve you the paying public, whereas your take is, we're hear to deal with emergencies, do a couple of meal service trolley pushes and spend the rest of the time ignoring call bells.

Bongodog1964 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! [...] Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

Exactly.

We've had this same argument in some other thread a couple of weeks ago. "Primarily for your safety" is an airline truism which completely ignores the actual value they bring to both the company and their customers - they are PRIMARILY to provide a service - with a secondary role to ensure safety.

Also, flydude380 focuses on time spent training... well how about measuring how much of your job is safety and service by actually measuring just that: how much of your *JOB* is safety and service?! I'd imagine 90% is meal service etc., 5% is doing the safety demo and cross-checking doors etc. with another few percent spent in training and other miscellaneous safety-related things.

Try running an airline where the FAs just sit waiting for an emergency while the customers have to provide all their own catering and don't buy any duty free on board and see how long THAT lasts...

LAX772LR wrote:

PanzerPowner wrote:

So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them

Yes. Some people think that they're their servants, others think that they're people on a power trip, and still others think they're there to flirt with.

In all cases, I compare them to doctors, lawyers, and cops-- so many people treat them badly, until they NEED one's help.

I think it depends on the region
in ME/INDIA/AFRICA- Third World /Old School traditional nations
people definitely think they are servants.

In Asia/eastern Europe/South America - Second World- Moderate Nations
- people think FA are mean't to flirt with

USA/Western Euripe- Developed SJW nations
people think and the FA's themselves are on a power trip....

obviously very generalized and there will be exceptions but am confident polls will come out with these majorities

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

You can't really expect to sit around on flights doing almost nothing for your entire career waiting for that once in a lifetime opportunity to actually perform an evacuation while getting paid every month. FAs only spend a few minutes on "safety and security" during an average flight, even the pre-flight demonstration is mostly a video nowadays. While safety does indeed and should be the top priority for FAs (priority IF an actual safety issue arises, not time spent), objectively speaking their primary focus is providing service and they put the most effort and time into organizing the meal service. They really are more like waiters with a secondary safety function.

Service is quite important for passengers and there is fierce competition in this area between airlines. Abusing powers in the name of "Safety" or trying to settle commercial disputes between passengers and the airline using law enforcement is disgraceful. Flying in the US puts passengers in a situation where they pay for a service but they cannot complain about anything because FAs are abusing power and you risk being dragged from a plane by the actual Police. This sort of thing doesn't really work in most other countries.

FAs in Europe at least tend to be a lot more nice and helpful to passengers. It's almost as if they understand what their actual role is - to provide a great service and make everyone happy and comfortable to the extent that they can. This does not mean they overlook safety issues.

flydude380 wrote:

Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

So the lesson seems to be that passengers should just barge into the galley area and pour themselves a drink outside of normal services. The FAs won't mind as they didn't need to get off their backsides to do anything. Perhaps the FAs should tell the punters this in an announcement so there's no doubt in people's minds.

As for your query at the end I would hazard a guess it's because many, not all, don't come across very well. It's a pity we don't know your airline as I'm sure they would be delighted to endorse your view of what FAs don't need to do when dealing with economy.

I definitely think the public needs a better understand of their importance, but I also think it's understandable that they see them primarily as a service, not a safety thing.

Generally, if you see a police officer or firefighter or paramedic, it's because something bad happened...as great as it is to interact with them and get to know them before something bad happens, most people only interact when there's an emergency, so they're viewed primarily as emergency response.

Flight attendants, on the other hand...well, hopefully we NEVER have to see them as emergency response, because that means something on our flight went terribly wrong. The vast majority of passengers will only ever see them as someone who delivers drinks and food, so they're primarily viewed as service industry.

Again, I do wish the public would have a better understanding of the position and what it requires, but I can't blame them for not since they will (hopefully) never see the emergency response aspect of it.

Some of these responses are hilarious and signifies what some people think about FAs. If an airline wants to flash their crews as sexual objects? So be it! There are airlines that do that indeed.

You don’t want to sit next to an emergency exit? Then fine. No one is forcing you to take on that responsibility!

I’ve worked both in the US and European airline industry as well as have travelled with various airlines. The crews of US carriers are perfect in being assertive and enforcing anything they need to do. Of course, some deem their direct approach to be unfavorable.

dtw2hyd wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

So why can't airlines outsource in-flight service to some other company?

Have a couple of cabin safety monitors, for safety and security.

Didn't Hooters Air do that?

It would definitely cause increase costs - you need a certain number of trained flight attendants no matter what, and if you then throw additional service industry people on top of that, you're starting to raise the cost of staffing any given flight.

I prefer them females and pretty. Nice to look at them doing their jobs. Shortens the flight time. In case of emergency I hope they can open he door and deploy the slides without order from cockpit.

I’m just a regular guy who flies coach nearly all the time. I don’t ask for anything and don’t expect the FAs to do anything for me except perhaps smile a bit more. I have on occasion flown business/first class on US domestic and notice that, not surprisingly, the level of attention from the FAs is, dare I say it, like it was in coach many years ago. But one thing that puzzles me is why the surliness in coach and the gentleness in business class? Is it that FAs working business class pretend to be nice or do they actually enjoy working with the pax? Why do the folks back in Coach deserve to be treated any differently?

I wish they would stop clogging up the aisles , nightmare

SamYeager2016 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

So the lesson seems to be that passengers should just barge into the galley area and pour themselves a drink outside of normal services. The FAs won't mind as they didn't need to get off their backsides to do anything. Perhaps the FAs should tell the punters this in an announcement so there's no doubt in people's minds.

As for your query at the end I would hazard a guess it's because many, not all, don't come across very well. It's a pity we don't know your airline as I'm sure they would be delighted to endorse your view of what FAs don't need to do when dealing with economy.

Most Pax already barge into the galleys anyways to fetch themselves drinks, conduct their galley Pilates *cringe* or enjoy the view of FAs eating their meals or carrying out their work *cringe* or even block up
the aisles and galleys

A lot of airlines either set up an area to allow pax to help themselves or they have trays with beverages already filled. If not, just pour your drink yourself?

26point2 wrote:

I’m just a regular guy who flies coach nearly all the time. I don’t ask for anything and don’t expect the FAs to do anything for me except perhaps smile a bit more. I have on occasion flown business/first class on US domestic and notice that, not surprisingly, the level of attention from the FAs is, dare I say it, like it was in coach many years ago. But one thing that puzzles me is why the surliness in coach and the gentleness in business class? Is it that FAs working business class pretend to be nice or do they actually enjoy working with the pax? Why do the folks back in Coach deserve to be treated any differently?

I've had great FAs in Economy, and borderline horrible FAs in Business and First. Yes, generally, I notice better service in Business or First, but it's by no means a guarantee. Really, truly a couple of the best FA experiences I've ever had were in Economy on "mediocre" airlines (I'm remembering AA and Air India specifically).

[photoid][/photoid]

Galwayman wrote:

I’m not convinced they’re really necessary anymore and would be happy to fly in an aircraft without them , perhaps in the future passengers can do some online annual certification and earn and maintain an annual fitness to travel certification

Personally I feel a bit sorry for them , low pay, long shift work, boredom . Most are very pleasant but in the legacy airlines ( seniority ) there’s a sense of entitlement and seething resentment towards the passengers from many of the cabin crew

I don’t think any of them will make a difference in an emergency to be honest

Don’t know where to start with this mate!

Firstly, regulators disagree with you and they clearly have more experience in the matter. You would probably die in a serious incident without the crew and the insight they have to the psychology of normal passengers in an emergency and how they react. It may not be the impact, or the broken up aircraft or even the fire which could kill you, it would probably be the reaction of others around you. It has been proven, documented and celebrated globally many many many times over recent years and there is even study on the matter. There is a reason each aircraft has a minimum crew compliment. The recent Emirates crash is a fine example, passengers punching cabin crew as they attempted to redirect passengers away from a danger!

Also, I’m one of those “legacy”, “seniroty” crew. Iv a good salary and excellent lifestyle. I certainly don’t come to work with an entitled attitude, I’m nice to everyone & I rarely see otherwise from my colleagues. What I do see however from time to time, is customers with an attitude towards me, people, like yourself with some sort of prejudice or resentment without even having met or spoken to me beforehand. It’s actually bizarre and really only something I experience from UK and Irish customers, guess it’s just that good old fashioned begrudgery.

Now some of the other comments on here, especially from the US are a bit shocking. Don’t sign up for the job if you’re after a power trip. Airlines are part of the service industry and as such the balance needs to be found between polite friendly service and enforcing the rule of law relating to safety. It is an easy thing to do, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. One does not need to be subservient like some airlines in the Far East nor do people need to be like mini-hitlers in polyester!

flydude380 wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

So the lesson seems to be that passengers should just barge into the galley area and pour themselves a drink outside of normal services. The FAs won't mind as they didn't need to get off their backsides to do anything. Perhaps the FAs should tell the punters this in an announcement so there's no doubt in people's minds.

As for your query at the end I would hazard a guess it's because many, not all, don't come across very well. It's a pity we don't know your airline as I'm sure they would be delighted to endorse your view of what FAs don't need to do when dealing with economy.

Most Pax already barge into the galleys anyways to fetch themselves drinks, conduct their galley Pilates *cringe* or enjoy the view of FAs eating their meals or carrying out their work *cringe* or even block up
the aisles and galleys

A lot of airlines either set up an area to allow pax to help themselves or they have trays with beverages already filled. If not, just pour your drink yourself?

A lot of those times, the cart only has one or two things - it's not uncommon to only see orange juice or water. If I want ginger ale or a coke or something, I need to ask - no way around it. Sorry if they're eating or relaxing, but they're still on duty and I would like a drink, please.

sw733 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

So the lesson seems to be that passengers should just barge into the galley area and pour themselves a drink outside of normal services. The FAs won't mind as they didn't need to get off their backsides to do anything. Perhaps the FAs should tell the punters this in an announcement so there's no doubt in people's minds.

As for your query at the end I would hazard a guess it's because many, not all, don't come across very well. It's a pity we don't know your airline as I'm sure they would be delighted to endorse your view of what FAs don't need to do when dealing with economy.

Most Pax already barge into the galleys anyways to fetch themselves drinks, conduct their galley Pilates *cringe* or enjoy the view of FAs eating their meals or carrying out their work *cringe* or even block up
the aisles and galleys

A lot of airlines either set up an area to allow pax to help themselves or they have trays with beverages already filled. If not, just pour your drink yourself?

A lot of those times, the cart only has one or two things - it's not uncommon to only see orange juice or water. If I want ginger ale or a coke or something, I need to ask - no way around it. Sorry if they're eating or relaxing, but they're still on duty and I would like a drink, please.

Talk about consideration... why would you disturb someone during their meal break or rest break? And they say FAs are bad! Feeling sorry for all the FAs out there

flydude380 wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

Lol have you looked at the picture on the call bell? Your a server dude. In the very UNLIKEY event of an emergency landing you’ll pop a door.

sw733 wrote:

...
Didn't Hooters Air do that?

It would definitely cause increase costs - you need a certain number of trained flight attendants no matter what, and if you then throw additional service industry people on top of that, you're starting to raise the cost of staffing any given flight.

Not sure about increased costs to the airline. If say LSG SkyChefs sends their crew to serve food, all airline has to do is to pay SkyChef for food and service. They can offer better choices, sell add-ons and generate more revenue for themselves. They are in the food business, what do airlines know about food or service.

Also, the current class segregation is in the industry is not going to last for long. Airlines are looking into an al-a-carte model to generate more revenue. You may see an economy passenger ordering a first class meal, or a business passenger being content with complimentary food.

Flydude380 will have a horrible time with that model.

Tonystan

Agree entirely.

Fortunately, the FA I have meet so far do not have the attitudes of some who post here.

LAX772LR wrote:

PanzerPowner wrote:

So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them

Yes. Some people think that they're their servants, others think that they're people on a power trip, and still others think they're there to flirt with.

To be (somewhat fair) to us, the flying public, much of the perception of flight attendants is the result of the airlines themselves. Airline ads typically show a lithe, attractive (usually female) flight attendant offering a pillow to a happy (usually male) passenger, serving him a sumptuous meal, tucking him into his lie flat bed while closing the light overhead, and the like. I can't recall a single advertisement depicting flight attendants administering CPR during a flight, efficiently evacuating an aircraft during an emergency, or subduing a hijacker. (for obvious reasons)

Over the years, flight attendants have been dressed like go go dancers (early Southwest) or virginal (Pan Am) and while these are examples from the past, the stereotype persists. Think Singapore Girl (although Singapore does have male flight attendants, it's the service oriented female attendants who are highlighted in the ads). And what's the name of the middle-east airline executive who trolled the ugliness of american flight attendants in comparison to those at his airline a year or so ago?

tonystan wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

Galwayman wrote:

I’m not convinced they’re really necessary anymore and would be happy to fly in an aircraft without them , perhaps in the future passengers can do some online annual certification and earn and maintain an annual fitness to travel certification

Personally I feel a bit sorry for them , low pay, long shift work, boredom . Most are very pleasant but in the legacy airlines ( seniority ) there’s a sense of entitlement and seething resentment towards the passengers from many of the cabin crew

I don’t think any of them will make a difference in an emergency to be honest

Don’t know where to start with this mate!

Firstly, regulators disagree with you and they clearly have more experience in the matter. You would probably die in a serious incident without the crew and the insight they have to the psychology of normal passengers in an emergency and how they react. It may not be the impact, or the broken up aircraft or even the fire which could kill you, it would probably be the reaction of others around you. It has been proven, documented and celebrated globally many many many times over recent years and there is even study on the matter. There is a reason each aircraft has a minimum crew compliment. The recent Emirates crash is a fine example, passengers punching cabin crew as they attempted to redirect passengers away from a danger!

Also, I’m one of those “legacy”, “seniroty” crew. Iv a good salary and excellent lifestyle. I certainly don’t come to work with an entitled attitude, I’m nice to everyone & I rarely see otherwise from my colleagues. What I do see however from time to time, is customers with an attitude towards me, people, like yourself with some sort of prejudice or resentment without even having met or spoken to me beforehand. It’s actually bizarre and really only something I experience from UK and Irish customers, guess it’s just that good old fashioned begrudgery.

Now some of the other comments on here, especially from the US are a bit shocking. Don’t sign up for the job if you’re after a power trip. Airlines are part of the service industry and as such the balance needs to be found between polite friendly service and enforcing the rule of law relating to safety. It is an easy thing to do, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. One does not need to be subservient like some airlines in the Far East nor do people need to be like mini-hitlers in polyester!

During my time working both in the US and European airline industry, there were some nationalities that had more etiquette and a pleasure to serve more than others. I don’t like to generalize. Especially, when it comes to my fellow countrymen. It doesn’t seem to be all, but a majority. However, your statement about UK pax is spot on!! Always something to moan about - or you will get killer looks until (or maybe never) my fellow English actually have the guts to moan about something. Resentment and being stuck up. Wanting things not entitled to, Unnessecary drama, refusal to comply and the list can go on!

flydude380 wrote:

Some of these responses are hilarious and signifies what some people think about FAs. If an airline wants to flash their crews as sexual objects? So be it! There are airlines that do that indeed.

You don’t want to sit next to an emergency exit? Then fine. No one is forcing you to take on that responsibility!

I’ve worked both in the US and European airline industry as well as have travelled with various airlines. The crews of US carriers are perfect in being assertive and enforcing anything they need to do. Of course, some deem their direct approach to be unfavorable.

Oh please STOP.

You don’t speak for cabin crew at all and failing to help this debate. Your attitudes are appalling. Assertiveness is not an excuse for surliness and rudeness. If you are crew yourself I would say you are not good at your job! Ignoring economy passengers just because it’s economy is simply admitting to laziness and is borderline discrimination. Sadly something I have witnessed on US carriers many times and hence why I avoid them like the plague.

Also a lot of people here are forgetting the high degree of first responder training crew receive. I have had a very small amount of aircraft emergencies in my 20 years but feck me Iv had far too many medical (mild to very serious) situations than I care to remember. Notable incidents occur perhaps once or twice a month. And it won’t be that doctor or nurse who is paged for that’ll save you, it’ll be the team work and experience of all the crew working together....and those fabulous folk at MedAire!

Well, as long as we're discussing FAs... I thought this video clip was fantastic. 100 years of uniforms...

http://video.cntraveler.com/watch/100-y ... t-uniforms

FA's have a dual role, each of equal importance:
Safety and security of flight when those actions are needed, and service and assistance of passenger needs during the flight. It is not an easy job but it is not unusual in the world for employees to have multiple roles in their job.

When a passenger needs something they should be polite and assist as needed. Explaining things if needed but trying to address the passengers issue.

However when there is an emergency etc. their role switches to one of direction and guidance to best keep the passengers safe and provide the best chance for them in whatever situation occurs.

Cointrin330 wrote:

My policy on flight attendants is to say please and thank you and let them do their jobs.

Yes, agreed. Always be polite to those doing their jobs. Essentially my rule is to reflect the attitude of the one I am interacting with, I am polite but firm if I need something. Follow directions but not blindly. The goal is for both parties to get done what is needed.

dtw2hyd wrote:

So why can't airlines outsource in-flight service to some other company?

Have a couple of cabin safety monitors, for safety and security.

This might actually be a good idea. But of course it probably means a couple extra people on the flight, needing to be employed, so airlines will not support it.

As to the stupid comments about essentially "economy passengers not being worth the time and effort" (paraphrasing), the fact is economy passengers are the only thing that keeps airline flying and profitable. The proof of this is the fact that there is NO successful airline with no economy passengers while at the same time there are many airlines the serve only economy level passengers. Without economy passengers FA's, pilots, CEO's would not have a job. Of course some will disagree but they are either not actually looking at the business or are self-centered and wanting something in particular for themselves (since the majority of passengers are economy those passengers take up a lot of time and resources that others, higher paying passengers or employees alike, wish they could have for themselves).

Tugg

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

The definition of an "Attendant":
noun
1.a person employed to provide a service to the public in a particular place.
"a flight attendant"
synonyms: steward, waiter, waitress, garçon, porter, servant, waitperson, stewardess; More

This is why U.S airlines have the WORST service in the world. Their "Flight Attendants" think they are here for my "safety", which i get, but your duty is also to provide a sense of service, based on your "Job Description, title, and role". If Americans are adament on saying their flight crew are mainly there for "Safety" then dont call them an "Attendant". Change their title and job description to "Air safety Marshall or safety personnel"

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

You don't say

flydude380 wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

FAs are not there for your service! The whole role is about being there for your safety and security.

That means, they are not there to help you stow away your bag, they are not there to get you a drink when you push the call bell. Stop being so lazy and get off your backside and get the drink yourself! Have a complaint about the food? Why should your FA care? They don’t make the meals. Once again, they’re there for your safety and security! Find them to be power-tripping? tough. They’re there to enforce rules and have a level of assertiveness. That’s one thing I commend US FAs for, compared to the rest of the globe.

The majority of training is spent on safety and security, rather than service. Service is secondary and ranges from one day to a week of training.

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

If I got up and got myself a drink what would happen? I'd guess a thread on this forum about the a-hole who got a plane diverted because he got himself a drink. But I would be totally fine with fixing myself a drink if the airline would let me

Elementalism wrote:

flydude380 wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

If your stance was correct airlines would not be offering any form of drink or food service, when the truth is that especially for long haul they go out of their way to emphasise the service you will receive from their on board staff.

In regard to food, the flight attendants are responsible for warming it in the on board ovens and serving it to the passengers, they are just as responsible as the staff at the caterers kitchen.
Why should they care you ask ? the answer is that the passengers pay their wages and if the service becomes intolerable there are plenty of other airlines out there, how many international or even domestic routes are there with zero competition ?

You’re not comprehending what I am saying. Sure,
the airlines offer meal and beverages services as per what the airline offers. However, the FA is not required to above and beyond completing these services.

As I have used the call bell example that lazy and even entitled pax use, FAs are not required to respond to your call for a drink from your seat. Get up yourself and get it! If you want that type of service, then perhaps you should be flying Air NZ? If you know anything about Air NZ services onboard, you’d know what I mean.

Now, of course, when you’re flying a premium cabin, I agree that FAs should have a service component as the airline is deemed to be transporting you to your destination safely as well as comfortably. Economy on the other hand... no. They don’t have to go above and beyond completing the normal services while maintaining safety and security.

And are you seriously using that “we pay your wages” card? We all know what types of people use that!

Btw, why are people so preoccupied making threads regarding FAs?

If I got up and got myself a drink what would happen? I'd guess a thread on this forum about the a-hole who got a plane diverted because he got himself a drink. But I would be totally fine with fixing myself a drink if the airline would let me

Then there's the a-hole who gets up a few too many times for a drink and tries to open a door. At least then the flight attendant gets to play cop. I know a handful of flight attendants and all of them are pretty decent people who genuinely enjoy the customer service aspect of the job, along with the travel benefits. I've never heard any of them harping on the whole safety and security thing.

Flight Attendants are there for safety first, service second. Flight attendants are the first responders in medical events and are trained to use the medical equipment on board the aircraft. Medical events occur on board flights frequently, especially in the US where the majority of the population is a heart attack waiting to happen. Never mind how grateful you would be to have them around should an evacuation become necessary. Many passengers can't even figure out to open the lavatory door. How on earth do you expect them to react in an evacuation situation? Flight attendants also conduct important arrival and departure duties like arming and disarming aircraft doors. I think it's important not to downplay the safety aspects of a flight attendants job.

However...

Service is also an important part of a flight attendants duties. Flight attendants spend more time with passengers than any other airline employees so it's important that they are friendly, professional, and gracious. While they are not servants, they certainly have a big impact on customers' travel experience. So in essence, flight attendants are safety AND service professionals and should be treated as such.

CobaltScar wrote:

Cointrin330 wrote:

My policy on flight attendants is to say please and thank you and let them do their jobs.

This is what I do. But I feel embarrassed for the airline when you get that one FA who does not give service with a smile and acts bothered by the passenger. I know after a long day things get trying and its harder and harder to act gracious on the job though. This is why long duty days are not good for anyone, including the passengers.

FAs are there primarily for your safety, but they can and should still make the passenger as comfortable as possible while on the flight.

The passengers, on the other hand, could also stop being so needy. Is there a reason to ask for 4 drinks at the same time??

Absolutely, they won't answer the call bell or do more than the required 1 service round. Got to stock up!

The flight attendant position is (and will always be) linked to the earlier “stewardess” days when it WAS all about service, friendliness, personality and looks. Certainly its not any more. That, and the fact that airlines do still expect their FAs to provide beverage/food service to its customers. So FAs will always have this “service” tag attached to them .. in addition to their safety related duties . And that’s fine .. they know that going in to the job.

Is it a position of responsibility? Of course it is. So is a ramp agent .. so is a fueler.. so is a pilot.

I think there are just as many people who over inflate and over exaggerate the FA position nowadays too (and right here on this very site). “Safety professionals” .. ok .. to a degree. You’re not a nurse, though, or a police officer, or a soldier. . Some make it seem like FAs are on that level. They’re not. They’re people who are hired, trained for about 6 weeks and then sent into the aisles. This is not a degreed or credentialed position or one that requires even any form of certification prior.

Like it or not, its basically an airborne cabin monitor and customer service position. Do most FAs work hard? Sure. Can it be a sucky job dealing with the public? Sure. But are there some lazy, bullying FAs? Definitely. And others in airline industry, like ticket counter and gate agents, work every bit as as hard as FAs.

To the member above (whose name I won’t mention for fear of violating any forum rules about hurting each others feelings) .. what airline do you know of that tells their FAs they are not obligated to to answer call buttons for Coach passengers after their one service is completed? And you contradicted yourself completely by saying “but of course its different up in Premium Classes where FAs should be expected to serve passengers at their seat and answer call bells”. I thought, according to you, they were there only for safety and security. You sound ridiculous.

Kashmon wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

PanzerPowner wrote:

So, do you think the public has an unfair view of them

Yes. Some people think that they're their servants, others think that they're people on a power trip, and still others think they're there to flirt with.

In all cases, I compare them to doctors, lawyers, and cops-- so many people treat them badly, until they NEED one's help.

I think it depends on the region
in ME/INDIA/AFRICA- Third World /Old School traditional nations
people definitely think they are servants.

In Asia/eastern Europe/South America - Second World- Moderate Nations
- people think FA are mean't to flirt with

USA/Western Euripe- Developed SJW nations
people think and the FA's themselves are on a power trip....

obviously very generalized and there will be exceptions but am confident polls will come out with these majorities

I add you that in South America being a flight attendant at a legacy carrier is seen as a very desirable job, one would often be congratulated for it

I seem to have very good experiences. I say hello, please , thank you, exchange a few pleasantries. They’re treated like crap these days and by just being friendly, you see smiles return to their faces.

When UA has the Dao incident and everyone bashing UA CSA’s, I was flying that week and picked up s couple of candy bars for the gate agents. I approached them and discretely said I’ve been in their shoes, I know it’s been a hard week, thank you.

Did a lot of international travel last year on UA to Asia using miles (catch those last 747 rides) and I bought a box of see’s candies for the crew.

When I was CSA l made sure to take care of my non revs/commuters. Professional courtesy. So imagine my surprise when they returned, I’d frequently and unexpectedly get little gifts. Good goes around.

When flying WN, I get early boarding, but head straight to the back (unless connecting) and put my bag in the overhead, backpack under the seat, and all settled while the huddled masses in A group are bottlenecked up front.

Got this attitude from 39 years ago when non-rev travel was truly a privilege.

So maybe next time, say good morning as you board. Have a really good crew? Let them no when deplaning.

I think most people think of FAs as they do for any other job. There are truly outstanding FAs. Most do their job reasonably well. A few fit into the category, "How did he or she get hired and passed training?"

Most people I know understand that an FA has a duel role. The primary role, but the one that most people don't see, is the safety role. The FA will do his or her best to deal with people in an emergency, whether there is a safety issue with the aircraft or a passenger becomes sick and needs medical attention.

The other role is keeping passengers comfortable, whether it's serving drinks and food or showing how to adjust a seat and the like.