Tiger119
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British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 6:28 am

If the British Crown Royal were to fly across the Atlantic or elsewhere for that matter, would I be safe to say that BA would be the carrier and would and her immediate family and staff be the only passengers? Would there be a special call-sign akin to "Shepherd One" with AZ? What about direct heirs to the Crown? I have always wondered this.
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flipdewaf
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 6:33 am

RAF voyager.

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ELBOB
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 6:50 am

No special callsign when flying on a commercial BA service though the flight number is usually in the 9xxx range.

When chartering a public-hire aircraft the callsign for the Royal Household is SPARROWHAWK. When RAF airframe it is KITTYHAWK, or just KITTY when positioning. There are also some individual callsigns such as TURQUIOSE and RAINBOW. Stick those into a search and you'll probably find lots more info.
Last edited by ELBOB on Sat May 26, 2018 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Andy33
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 6:59 am

Tiger119 wrote:
If the British Crown Royal were to fly across the Atlantic or elsewhere for that matter, would I be safe to say that BA would be the carrier and would and her immediate family and staff be the only passengers? Would there be a special call-sign akin to "Shepherd One" with AZ? What about direct heirs to the Crown? I have always wondered this.


As HM the Queen is 92 years old, she doesn't do much long haul flying any more. But in any case the Royal Air Force has an A330 which can be set up in VIP configuration which would most likely be used. It was used for the Prince of Wales' official visit to Greece earlier this month and I saw it at Athens as he was boarding.
For journeys outside A330 range, BA have a 772ER that can be adapted with a Royal Suite that is otherwise stored in a hangar somewhere and this would be chartered.
But the modern UK monarchy tries to avoid visible waste of public money on ostentation (the military parades and so on are as much a tourist attraction these days as anything else), and UK security believes strongly in security through obscurity - so no special callsigns, no aircraft painted all over with crowns. Don't forget the UK constitution,. such as it is, separates the roles of Head of State and Head of Government. It isn't at all unknown for senior members of the Royal Family and for Prime Ministers to travel on LCCs such as EasyJet on scheduled flights, and on scheduled train services within the UK. And some of the Royal Family actually are qualified pilots, usually on helicopters, and have been known to fly themselves to meetings/official functions.
 
zkncj
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 7:07 am

For longer journeys they have travelled on Public Flights e.g. in previous trips to SYD have been on BA on the usual LHR-SIN-SYD service, from there for the New Zealand part of the tour the RNZAF 757-200 was sent to SYD to collect them (that 757 is far from luxury - its basically an military personal transport plane / quick change freighter).

In the past NZ has carried the Queen on NZ1/2 LHR-LAX-AKL on there 744s.
 
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Channex757
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 am

The British do things differently as well.

The Head of State is required to travel separately from the Heir should they be travelling to the same function. The reason for this should be obvious.

The Head of Government can use unconverted airliners or the RAF/AirTanker Voyager. This is because the Prime Minister has a deputy who takes over the PM's functions when the PM travels overseas. No Air Force One requirement beyond the usual communications the PM might require to be consulted or offer direction. The British collectively seem to think that the PM is just a politician and we have over 600 more in Westminster if needed.

The only "crowns and stripes" fleet has been the Royal Flight and as mentioned above, security by simplicity seems the order of the day today. A plain grey Voyager is a little stealthy to start with.
 
MCO2BRS
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 7:58 am

I've had the pleasure of meeting two members of the royal family on my flights, only the crew knew they were on board, none of the pax knew who they were. We don't make a fuss of them, don't draw attention to them and treat them like everybody else. On both occasions they seemed to appreciate being treated like normal people.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 8:17 am

Andy33 wrote:
Tiger119 wrote:
If the British Crown Royal were to fly across the Atlantic or elsewhere for that matter, would I be safe to say that BA would be the carrier and would and her immediate family and staff be the only passengers? Would there be a special call-sign akin to "Shepherd One" with AZ? What about direct heirs to the Crown? I have always wondered this.


As HM the Queen is 92 years old, she doesn't do much long haul flying any more. But in any case the Royal Air Force has an A330 which can be set up in VIP configuration which would most likely be used. It was used for the Prince of Wales' official visit to Greece earlier this month and I saw it at Athens as he was boarding.
For journeys outside A330 range, BA have a 772ER that can be adapted with a Royal Suite that is otherwise stored in a hangar somewhere and this would be chartered.
But the modern UK monarchy tries to avoid visible waste of public money on ostentation (the military parades and so on are as much a tourist attraction these days as anything else), and UK security believes strongly in security through obscurity - so no special callsigns, no aircraft painted all over with crowns. Don't forget the UK constitution,. such as it is, separates the roles of Head of State and Head of Government. It isn't at all unknown for senior members of the Royal Family and for Prime Ministers to travel on LCCs such as EasyJet on scheduled flights, and on scheduled train services within the UK. And some of the Royal Family actually are qualified pilots, usually on helicopters, and have been known to fly themselves to meetings/official functions.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... class.html

Image
 
AY104
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 4:29 pm

MCO2BRS wrote:
I've had the pleasure of meeting two members of the royal family on my flights, only the crew knew they were on board, none of the pax knew who they were. We don't make a fuss of them, don't draw attention to them and treat them like everybody else. On both occasions they seemed to appreciate being treated like normal people.


Thank You for that info. I am very pleased to know that!
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Bongodog1964
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sat May 26, 2018 7:22 pm

A stated by others, the Queen no longer travels long distances as she is 92 years old, The Prince of Wales does the most high profile trips, and other members of the family cover the rest. The Voyager is for Royal and Govt use on long haul trips that require a significant number of accompanying personnel, including press and tv who are offered the chance to purchase seats on the flights.

Obviously its not always available for everyone who wants it, particularly if already booked for a long trip. Only a few days back our foreign secretary Boris Johnson mentioned that it always seemed to be unavailable when he put in a request.
.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 10:25 am

The RAF Voyager is available, and it seems order of precedence for booking would be HM The Queen, HRH The Prince of Wales, The Prime Minister and then senior Secretaries of State. However, on a recent five day tour of South America the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs used scheduled flights, including connecting in MAD to get to his first destination of Lima. He did make some valid comments about whether the UK should have more planes available for use by senior figures and that the Voyager is actually hard to book.

The RAF's 32 Squadron does have some VIP BAe 146-100 aircraft available (and some smaller BAe 125 aircraft), but they lack range and are also over thirty years old. I think they are just used for domestic and European flights these days.

The Prince of Wales will actually make use of chartered aircraft. His household will cost up options and it has been reported that a private charter can be cheaper than the RAF Voyager.

The other thing to remember with the Royal Family is that if visiting a Commonwealth country where The Queen is still head of state then that country will handle the travel arrangements. Hence in the past The Queen has flown in a QF 744 to Australia with FIrst Class removed and a special suite installed, whilst I believe the Canadian government makes available one of its A310 aircraft. Or, given she has reigned for 66 years, a few classics!

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Or even BA shorthaul, as evidenced by the Royal Standard flying from the cockpit on arrival in Slovenia.

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As others have mentioned, BA has two 777-236ER aircraft (In the G-YMMx range) that can be fitted with a special VIP suite in pace of First. And in the much more distant past Concorde could be used to make a big impact.

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Our secret weapon for big overseas visits was retired twenty years ago by Tony Blair, who wouldn't fund refurbishment or replacement. And even the arch-moderniser has acknowledged that was a mistake. But then this is about planes rather than yachts!

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Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
airsmiles
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 11:12 am

The two BA 777’s fitted for Royal Suite conversion are G-YMMO and either G-YMMN or G-YMMP.
 
andrej
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 12:10 pm

What is the difference between the Royal Suite and the First Class? Are there any photos available?

How long does it take to install? How long in advance will the Buckingham Palace give a notice to the BA? Or is any travel planned months/weeks in advance so planes are gradually taken off the flight line?

I would presume that the BA First Class is enough for the Royals.
 
Andy33
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 12:18 pm

Again, the Queen is Head of State, not Head of Government. Doesn't get involved with crisis meetings, what she, and other family members deputising for her nowadays, does is attend formal gatherings of other heads of state, or make formal official visits when invited by other countries. The meetings and visits will be scheduled months or even years in advance.
I've never seen photos of the Royal Suite, but from descriptions I've read it turns the First Class cabin into an actual bedroom with a real bed, and the change can be made within 24 hours.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 2:41 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
The other thing to remember with the Royal Family is that if visiting a Commonwealth country where The Queen is still head of state then that country will handle the travel arrangements.


An important distinction to note, given that since the 1930s there is a separate Crown for each Commonwealth country that used to be a part of the UK, even though the person "wearing" the Crown is the same. Thus when Elizabeth II visits Australia she is doing so as Queen of Australia, and Canada as Queen of Canada, etc etc.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 4:25 pm

andrej wrote:
What is the difference between the Royal Suite and the First Class? Are there any photos available?

How long does it take to install? How long in advance will the Buckingham Palace give a notice to the BA? Or is any travel planned months/weeks in advance so planes are gradually taken off the flight line?

I would presume that the BA First Class is enough for the Royals.

From memory :old: the nose of a 747 was cleared completely, two beds were installed and walls to create two rooms. The other part of the cabin was then set as a day room. Info based on two lady friends who used to work the VIP planning, based in the old Queens building, mid 80's
P.S. Never, EVER, seen photo's.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: British Crown Flights

Sun May 27, 2018 10:02 pm

zkncj wrote:
For longer journeys they have travelled on Public Flights e.g. in previous trips to SYD have been on BA on the usual LHR-SIN-SYD service, from there for the New Zealand part of the tour the RNZAF 757-200 was sent to SYD to collect them (that 757 is far from luxury - its basically an military personal transport plane / quick change freighter).

In the past NZ has carried the Queen on NZ1/2 LHR-LAX-AKL on there 744s.


Qantas, not British Airways. As already said it is the responsibility of the country they are visiting to arrange transport.

When Will and Kate came out a few years ago (2014?) it went almost exactly as you described with them flying QF1 LHR-DXB-SYD and then RNZAF 757 to New Zealand.
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AC330
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 12:31 am

In 2011 The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge travelled to Canada and the USA a few months after their marriage. They flew from the UK to Canada on one of the Canadian Governments CC-150 Polaris aircraft (A310) however they returned to the UK aboard a BA regularly scheduled flight from LAX. The Duke and Duchess did not board with the rest of the passengers, the aircraft taxied to a remote stand shortly before departure where they were picked up and I would imagine they had the entire first class cabin to themselves along with anyone travelling with them.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 9:40 am

AC330 wrote:
In 2011 The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge travelled to Canada and the USA a few months after their marriage. They flew from the UK to Canada on one of the Canadian Governments CC-150 Polaris aircraft (A310) however they returned to the UK aboard a BA regularly scheduled flight from LAX. The Duke and Duchess did not board with the rest of the passengers, the aircraft taxied to a remote stand shortly before departure where they were picked up and I would imagine they had the entire first class cabin to themselves along with anyone travelling with them.

Which makes sense, as the outward trip was as a member of the Canadian Royal Family but the return trip from LAX was as a member of the British Royal Family!
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
ghYHZ
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 10:04 am

Back in October 1964….Elizabeth II as Queen of Canada…..travelled on the first DC-8 bearing the new colours and name: ‘Air Canada’ replaceing ‘Trans-Canada Air Lines’
 
Arion640
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 10:04 am

airsmiles wrote:
The two BA 777’s fitted for Royal Suite conversion are G-YMMO and either G-YMMN or G-YMMP.


Which I believe are about to have First removed and more Y going in and J going in the place of F. That's a lot more seats to come out to create living areas!
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airsmiles
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 10:37 am

Arion640 wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
The two BA 777’s fitted for Royal Suite conversion are G-YMMO and either G-YMMN or G-YMMP.


Which I believe are about to have First removed and more Y going in and J going in the place of F. That's a lot more seats to come out to create living areas!


I might be corrected here, but the densification only applies to the older airframes in the G-VII* fleet that will transfer over the LGW. LHR will still retain some unmodified 777’s in the G-YMM* fleet. I’ve yet to see a list of specific 777’s to go through the densification program though.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 11:07 am

airsmiles wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
The two BA 777’s fitted for Royal Suite conversion are G-YMMO and either G-YMMN or G-YMMP.


Which I believe are about to have First removed and more Y going in and J going in the place of F. That's a lot more seats to come out to create living areas!


I might be corrected here, but the densification only applies to the older airframes in the G-VII* fleet that will transfer over the LGW. LHR will still retain some unmodified 777’s in the G-YMM* fleet. I’ve yet to see a list of specific 777’s to go through the densification program though.


Are you sure? I was under the impression 30 777's would eventually go 10Y. All of Gatwick and the rest being YMMx birds at LHR.

Please correct me if i'm wrong mind.
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RetroRoo
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 12:36 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
The other thing to remember with the Royal Family is that if visiting a Commonwealth country where The Queen is still head of state then that country will handle the travel arrangements.


An important distinction to note, given that since the 1930s there is a separate Crown for each Commonwealth country that used to be a part of the UK, even though the person "wearing" the Crown is the same. Thus when Elizabeth II visits Australia she is doing so as Queen of Australia, and Canada as Queen of Canada, etc etc.


Correct. We're also "blessed" to pay for The Prince of Wales to the tune of many millions of dollars every time he wants to come here. This past month it was to secure his succession as head of the commonwealth. Madness, the whole stupid thing.

The Australian air force will soon have the fleet of VIP A330's, which no doubt will be used to deliver members of a distant and irrelevant european aristocratic family to and within our country. Can't wait.
 
Noshow
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 12:49 pm

AFAIK in the past HM The Queen has used leased Embraer Legacies (maybe Learjets before as well?) for personal travel. William and family have been using the same. Plus there is a royal helicopter (S-76?) they can use. So much of the travel is less formal and way cheaper. They seem to use the very big stuff for big state travel only and to leave some impression when on official foreign visits.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 12:52 pm

RetroRoo wrote:
We're also "blessed" to pay for The Prince of Wales to the tune of many millions of dollars every time he wants to come here. This past month it was to secure his succession as head of the commonwealth.


And ultimately with no real necessity to do so - provisions for the succession are set down by law, most recently in 2015 (which was a pain in and of itself, given it requires the assent of all sixteen Commonwealth realms and many of them - including Australia - needed assent from their states/provinces to give assent at the national level.)
 
shankly
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 2:53 pm

RetroRoo wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
The other thing to remember with the Royal Family is that if visiting a Commonwealth country where The Queen is still head of state then that country will handle the travel arrangements.


An important distinction to note, given that since the 1930s there is a separate Crown for each Commonwealth country that used to be a part of the UK, even though the person "wearing" the Crown is the same. Thus when Elizabeth II visits Australia she is doing so as Queen of Australia, and Canada as Queen of Canada, etc etc.


Correct. We're also "blessed" to pay for The Prince of Wales to the tune of many millions of dollars every time he wants to come here. This past month it was to secure his succession as head of the commonwealth. Madness, the whole stupid thing.

The Australian air force will soon have the fleet of VIP A330's, which no doubt will be used to deliver members of a distant and irrelevant european aristocratic family to and within our country. Can't wait.


Yes I understand a rescue mission is planned with Charlie personally bringing over a fresh batch of sand paper which we understand is now in short supply in our distant colony!
L1011 - P F M
 
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Devilfish
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Re: British Crown Flights

Mon May 28, 2018 9:38 pm

Noshow wrote:
AFAIK in the past HM The Queen has used leased Embraer Legacies (maybe Learjets before as well?) for personal travel. William and family have been using the same. Plus there is a royal helicopter (S-76?) they can use. So much of the travel is less formal and way cheaper. They seem to use the very big stuff for big state travel only and to leave some impression when on official foreign visits.

This is guaranteed to leave an impression..... :cloudnine: .....

Image
https://airbus-h.assetsadobe2.com/is/im ... 1&qlt=85,0


http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... odies.html

Quote:
"Harmony seamlessly combines the benefits of Airbus Corporate Jets’ VIP widebodies – such as comfort, space and quietness - to produce a consistently harmonious customer experience. It builds on the Airspace cabin brand from the Airbus airliner family.

Initially proposed for the new ACJ330neo Family[1], which features new-generation engines and Sharklets, Harmony can also suit other Airbus widebodies, such as the ACJ350 XWB.

'Long-haul flights provide time for productive work and socialising, as well as rest, and ACJ’s Harmony cabin concept is wonderfully well designed to enable all of these, while bringing the world within a single flight,' says ACJ President Benoit Defforge."



Could carry as much "sandpaper" as the colonies need :!: :biggrin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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RetroRoo
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Re: British Crown Flights

Tue May 29, 2018 1:45 am

shankly wrote:
Yes I understand a rescue mission is planned with Charlie personally bringing over a fresh batch of sand paper which we understand is now in short supply in our distant colony!


Honestly, you people. You decimate indigenous people, have generations sacrificed for you in war, and you still talk like this. Britain is cancelled.

XAM2175 wrote:
RetroRoo wrote:
We're also "blessed" to pay for The Prince of Wales to the tune of many millions of dollars every time he wants to come here. This past month it was to secure his succession as head of the commonwealth.


And ultimately with no real necessity to do so - provisions for the succession are set down by law, most recently in 2015 (which was a pain in and of itself, given it requires the assent of all sixteen Commonwealth realms and many of them - including Australia - needed assent from their states/provinces to give assent at the national level.)


I think you're confusing succession to the throne with succession as head of the commonwealth, they're two very different things.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: British Crown Flights

Tue May 29, 2018 7:41 am

The UK will never buy the likes of an A330ACJ for royal and PM use, there would be an uproar from a lot of people in the country, particularly those who struggle to survive financially. For longhaul work the Voyagers do the job as they are at least multi-functional, and Air Tanker have a good arrangement of leasing some out to airlines when business is quiet.

I would love to see something like a Legacy, Lineage or something similar to replace the 146s, but as mentioned before they often just charter Citations from other places (members of the royal family fly into where i work all the time, and nearly always on G-SIRS these days)
 
Noshow
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Re: British Crown Flights

Tue May 29, 2018 8:19 am

The UK will never buy the likes of an A330ACJ for royal and PM use


But they have a brand new 330-Tanker with VIP interior for these very purposes. Plus they convert BA jets any time needed.
 
jumpjets
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Re: British Crown Flights

Tue May 29, 2018 12:21 pm

Noshow wrote:
The UK will never buy the likes of an A330ACJ for royal and PM use


But they have a brand new 330-Tanker with VIP interior for these very purposes. Plus they convert BA jets any time needed.


Technically the UK has several 330 Tankers at least one of which can be converted for VIP work as and when it is needed - international wars permitting.

Not quite the same as having a dedicated ACJ that does nothing else besides chauffering posh people around.
 
Airstud
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Re: British Crown Flights

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:33 am

Bongodog1964 wrote:
our foreign secretary Boris Johnson mentioned that it always seemed to be unavailable when he put in a request.
.


It would seem that in his case the same is true of barbers.
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