irishpower
Topic Author
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:18 am

Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:32 pm

I posted this question a few years back-

What are some current Int'l city pairs that are either underserved or where service hasn't started yet?
Which routes makes business sense to either start new service or expand on existing service?

I realize there are a myriad of reasons why services on some city pairs either haven't started or haven't expanded but give me your thoughts on potential
future services.

Some potential examples are -

LAX- HAN/SGN
SFO- MXP/FCO
SFO- GIG/GRU
ZRH- DEN or IAH
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 1506
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:46 pm

TLV-DXB.

Of the ones you mention, I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.
 
axiom
Posts: 690
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:50 pm

ZRH-DEN was just started this summer. We'll see how the season goes!

In before this turns into a DTW thread...
 
gunnerman
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:01 pm

DEL-ISB

Relations still bad between India and Pakistan.
 
irishpower
Topic Author
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:18 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:01 pm

Years ago it was expansion into the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China).

What about MINT (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria and Turkey) right now? I could see more services into MEX, IST (with new airport), CGK and LOS.
 
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Geminijets101
Posts: 112
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:05 pm

MIA-TXL
A fellow Miamian
 
Antarius
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:07 pm

Given that GIG is getting cuts all over the place, I see no chance SFO-GIG happens
2018: AUA CLT IAH HOU DFW COS DEN CLL ORD PEK PVG PHX SFO SJC OAK PHL YYC STL DTW HNL OGG JFK LGA EWR GIG GRU IGU CWB SDU
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 551
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:21 pm

YUL-BEY is definitely one.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:24 pm

You could put LHR - (insert mid sized US city) for a lot of those.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:25 pm

TPA-London
 
TATLTALE
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:26 pm

SFO-MXP or FCO is a bit difficult (although I would quite like it!). AZ flew it for years, with little success, and as yet there are not star alliance connections that are too good.
Oh stewardess, I speak jive
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:34 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Murdoughnut wrote:
TPA-London


I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.

Ben
 
User001
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:44 pm

OAG data suggested the top 3 unserved Long haul was:

SGN-LAX
JFK-DAC
MAN-BKK
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 2632
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:51 pm

Some examples:

Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 1506
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:54 pm

User001 wrote:
OAG data suggested the top 3 unserved Long haul was:

SGN-LAX
JFK-DAC
MAN-BKK

Well, yeah, that could be so, but...Biman Bangladesh has spent decades losing money flying to JFK.
And MAN-BKK has murderous competition from the ME3 and virtually every European and SE Asian airline.
So, unserved doesn't necessarily mean it can be (easily) served profitably, even though PDEW numbers are huge.
 
748iDEN
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:54 pm

North American routes from Dusseldorf seem woefully underserved. One would imagine that a catchment area of 10 million people in one of the strongest business areas in Germany would offer more than a flight to ATL on DL and a flight to EWR on LH. I’m quite surprised that LH hasn’t replaced any of the Air Berlin flights that they used to to fly to the U.S. Flights to Canada are also lacking which seems odd given the good relation between between LH and AC and with the empty hole of having Air Berlin gone I would think that this would be an opportune time to start some new routes.
Last edited by 748iDEN on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:54 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Some examples:

Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco

Do Mexicans really go to Hawaii in significant numbers? I know there’s a lot of domestic tourism to their own resort towns and international to places like Miami and the Caribbean. Didn’t know there was a significant market to Hawaii.
 
LH658
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:06 pm

DEL/BOM - IAH
PVG - IAH
SGN - IAH
CLO - IAH
GYE - IAH
CAI - IAH
DMM - IAH
 
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Eindhoven
Posts: 118
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:09 pm

EIN-DXB
EIN-FCO
EIN-HEL
EIN-JFK
EIN-KEF
EIN-LCA
EIN-MUC
EIN-MXP
EIN-OSL
EIN-PUJ
EIN-SXF
 
Kno
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:40 pm

I'd say BOS-ICN. Funny that it was once served via JFK and now BOS has several asian routes but ICN has not returned.
 
whywhyzee
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Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:41 pm

YYZ-DUS (formerly served by LH, AB intended to start this year, and subsequently went under)
YYZ-HAM (Anna aero unserved route of the week, huge potential)
YYZ-GIG (formerly served by AC pre economic crash in Brazil)

There are more, but these routes have proven they have some legitimacy and can be operated to some degree of success.
 
shankly
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:46 pm

MAN - CPT or JNB
DUB - CPT or JNB
STN - to anywhere in the Americas!
CPT - MIA
L1011 - P F M
 
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DLHAM
Posts: 236
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Talking about my home Airport: HAM-NYC, MIA, LAX, ORD, YYZ, BKK, SIN are the ones that first come to my mind.

Only NYC being (under)served.

Miami saw LH service in the early 90s,
LAX existed as a two stop service by NWA via LGW and MSP,
ORD was served by AA with one stop+AC change in BRU,
YYZ was served by Wardair, Canada 3000 and airtransat,
BKK (HUGE amount of local traffic) was served by LTU in the 90s, there were never any flights to SIN.
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
flyfresno
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:11 pm

FAT-MEX,FAT-BJX, possibly FAT-SJD
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1096
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:14 pm

YHZ-AMS - Though I won't be surprised if WS eventually operate that on a MAX, similar to Paris.
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
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Slash787
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:14 pm

BOM - CPT
BOM - SYD
BOM - LAX
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25423
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:14 pm

748iDEN wrote:
North American routes from Dusseldorf seem woefully underserved. One would imagine that a catchment area of 10 million people in one of the strongest business areas in Germany would offer more than a flight to ATL on DL and a flight to EWR on LH. I’m quite surprised that LH hasn’t replaced any of the Air Berlin flights that they used to to fly to the U.S. Flights to Canada are also lacking which seems odd given the good relation between between LH and AC and with the empty hole of having Air Berlin gone I would think that this would be an opportune time to start some new routes.


Lufthansa launched MIA-DUS one week after Airberlin went under. Orlando and Fort Meyers also quickly regained DUS flights.
a.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:21 pm

Believe it or not a route served by at least someone for the past 15 years, BOS-CUN, is underserved and it was even listed as such in an OAG white paper.

In 2011 - O+D was 152K but the pax who flew non-stop were about 80K out of 100K seats. In 2017 94K passengers flew and 107K seats were available by scheduled carriers - I believe either FI or VX (R.I.P.) did charters which adds another 5K or so. Also the leading BOS-CUN carrier, B6 is know to have connections through BOS on these warm-weather routes so its possible its not all BOS O+D.

For W18/19 that may be changing since DL is adding extra frequencies December through March.

Being a destination that can be low cost (depends where you stay), it is common for people to choose their cheapest flight option in this market so there is a reason for it being underserved. Lets see how DL's experiment goes.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
BLQ757
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:23 pm

BLQ - New York.
If Emirates is able to sustain (year round) a daily 777W service to DXB I'm pretty sure there is room for a direct link to US. Cargo and Premium Passengers are definitively available in Bologna and its catchment area. A 767/787 should work nicely in this route.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 1446
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:32 pm

For me...

KIX-LHR
KIX-JFK
TYO-LAS
TYO-Secondary Europe like ATH, BER
LAX or SFO-BKK (I know...low yield and all)
MNL-HAN/SGN (I'm always somewhat surprised by how underserved it is between Vietnam and Philippines anyway, yes, relation are not the warmest but not exactly bad, either).
CTU-DEL/BOM (China - India overall is somewhat underserved, even with the relative lack of tie between the two)
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:35 pm

TATLTALE wrote:
SFO-MXP or FCO is a bit difficult (although I would quite like it!). AZ flew it for years, with little success, and as yet there are not star alliance connections that are too good.

AZ had it to MXP. The better airport would have been FCO, for both locals and connections.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:52 pm

IAH-HKG or any other Chinese destination
LAX-SGN
ORD-ATH, PRG, TLV
AER to any hub in the EU
ORK to BOS/or NYC Airports/or IAD
Eilat(New Airport, when it opens) to a NYC airport.
Any Mexico service from FAT
SFO-FCO, BKK
 
thevery
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:31 pm

LED-NYC
LED-AUH
SVO-SFO
 
leghorn
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:33 pm

Tirana to most everywhere.
Checked the price of some flights and they'd make your eyes water.
 
VC10er
Posts: 3601
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:40 pm

It is astonishing that there seem to be ZERO NYC/GIG non-stop flights anymore. Clearly there isn’t the market or at least AA or LATAM would be flying it. In the 90’s there was at least 3, VARIG, AA and Continental.
From Europe there are many, and LH uses a 748 I believe.
I would love to see UA do it from EWR (given the large Brazilian population in northern NJ) - UA does have a good connection to SDU which would be amazing if you didn’t have to switch terminals at GRU. Or go through IAH, either way Rio de Janeiro is one of the most famous cities in the world- but not connected to NYC non-stop. A route once seen often in the movies!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
master14225
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:50 pm

YYZ-NRT, I feel that NH or JAL can serve that route with a 787 or 777 and connect passengers to Eastern Canada and Transborder USA just like at ORD.

Another route I think of is YYZ-DOH, I know it's Canada's fault with Air Canada trying to be a monopoly but now they are talking with UAE on increasing number of flights between DXB and AUH to YYZ, I'm sure they can do the same w DOH.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:00 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
MalevTU134 wrote:
TLV-DXB.

Of the ones you mention, I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.


TLV-DXB will probably come before TLV-RUH, or TLV-JED. Although there is another thread saying that just in the last little while the first plane overflew SA on the way to TLV, so who knows?
 
LH658
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:02 pm

IAH - ICN
IAH - JED
IAH - BAH
IAH - AUH
IAH- KHI
IAH - PER
IAH - FCO
 
iadadd
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:06 pm

With relations looking like they may improve ADD-ASM. Data won't prove it atm, but there will be strong demand for this route when everything normalizes; VFR and Business wise

In a similar boat; routes between DEL/BOM to LHE/KHI/ISB
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1065
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:18 pm

PDX-CDG (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
PA12
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:25 pm

Elp-Dtw
Elp-Sea
Elp-Mco
Elp-Nyc area

Eze-Tlv
Eze-Lis

Aus/Sat-mfe
 
PA12
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:25 pm

O sorry, international routes....
 
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Irehdna
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:27 pm

From India:
BOM-ORD
DEL-LAX
BOM-PVG
BOM-JNB
DEL-MAN
BOM/DEL-BCN
Anything India to STN/LGW

From S. America:
COR-MAD
EZE-LAX
EZE-ORD
EZE-LIS
EZE-MUC
GRU/SCL/EZE-SFO
Last edited by Irehdna on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
PA12
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:30 pm

Eze-Mco is another one
 
BritTraveller
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:30 pm

LHR - KIX
LHR - CWL
LCY - MAN
LON - DPS
LHR - PTY
 
alan3
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:35 pm

North America (anywhere) to Lebanon

Helsinki to Canada (anywhere)

Stockholm to Canada (anywhere)

Thailand/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia to the US

No Canadian or US airline flying to Vienna

Canary Islands to North America
Last edited by alan3 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13481
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:36 pm

Flights over 5-6 hours means a need for usually larger, widebody aircraft. There may not be enough demand every day or year around enough to be profitable to use a suitable widebody, it makes more sense to bring people to a hub like MIA for Central, South American and Caribbean services. Also Miami has become the main business hub for Latin America, not so much NYC or other major US cities.
One other issue is if there are economic problems in a given country, increased standards to get visas (like to the USA) or not enough freight, heavily seasonal variations, that may reduce demand enough to limit operating more non-stop services.
 
Samrnpage
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:37 pm

MAN - DEL
MAN - HND
MAN - BKK
MAN - SVO
MAN - JND
MAN - MIA
 
User avatar
Irehdna
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:39 pm

From E/SE Asia:
SIN-YVR/YYZ
BKK/SGN-LAX
HKG-CLT/ATL
HND-PHL/CLT
 
Luisvalero
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:14 pm

Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:39 pm

LHR-PTY
LHR-LIM
LHR-DAR
LHR-EBB
LHR-CCU
LHR-KIX
LIS-SFO
LIS-EZE
LIS-TLV
MAD-IAH
MAD-IKA
MAD-BOM
MAD-SIN
MAD-BKK
MAD-CAN
BCN-MEX
BCN-HAV
BCN-LIM
BCN-SCL
BCN-GIG
BCN-DEL
BCN-BKK
BCN-NRT
CDG-KUL
CDG-CGK
CDG-MNL
BRU-GRU
BRU-SIN
BRU-ICN
BRU-DEL
AMS-SGN
AMS-HAN
FCO-BOG
FCO-ACC
FCO-LOS
FCO-BOM
FCO-KIX
MXP-MEX
MXP-EZE
MXP-JNB
MXP-NBO
MXP-KUL
MXP-KIX
ZRH-IAH
ZRH-MEX
ZRH-BOG
ZRH-DSS
VIE-JNB
VIE-DEL
VIE-SIN
FRA-LIM
FRA-CGK
MUC-GRU
MUC-EZE
MUC-KUL
MUC-KIX
TXL-PVG
TXL-HKG
CPH-ICN
And so onnnnnnnn

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