Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
toxtethogrady wrote:With what?
beeweel15 wrote:I don't know if this was discussed before.
With Airbus taking over the CS series aircraft and Boeing teaming up with Embraer, The Chinese and Russian programs is there room for Lockheed to reenter the civil aviation market. The Chinese and Russian programs will be more local and might not penetrate the main aviation markets with their offerings Lockheed I believe can reenter the market maybe partnering with Mitsubishi MRJ program and grow from there what are the possibilities. I miss those L1011 days
nikeherc wrote:I don't see Lockheed as an OEM. There may be a good future as a subcontractor/vendor. There is much cross-company support in the aviation industry, both civil and military. For instance Spirit sells to both Boeing and Airbus, Boeing and Northrup/Grumman are subcontractors on Lockheed military products and other examples could probably be cited. A major reason for the mergers that reduced the major military airframe contractors from six to three was a U.S. government desire to streamline the industry and reduce wasteful duplication. Thus, the Feds pretty much forced MDD and Boeing to merge when they denied MDD permission to work with China on a new large airliner. Similar considerations lead to Northrup/Grumman and LockMart.
I think that the days of multiple manufacturers of large commercial airliners in any country are over.
ckfred wrote:Airline pilots I know lament that the wrong manufacturer got out of the commercial business, when Lockheed stopped production of the L-1011. They felt that the Tri-Star was vastly superior to the DC-10, and in a number of ways superior to the 747.
That said, a manufacturer with Lockheed's history and reputation would still need to bring one aircraft type to market and then start working on a second type to fill another segment. That is a lot of manpower, time, and money being allocated to programs that might not generate profits for a number of years. I doubt the shareholders of Lockheed Martin would stand for that.
Whereas airlines were shifting towards either Airbus or Boeing for all of their aircraft needs, say for aircraft of 140 seats and larger, now they are splitting between the two manufacturers. But, I don't think airlines like the U.S. legacies, the major European carriers, and the major Asian carriers want to deal with three manufacturers.
At one point, AA had aircraft from four different manufacturers, Airbus, Boeing, Fokker, and McDonnel Douglas. It went down to three when Boeing and McD merged, and it went down to two when the F100s were retired. I highly doubt that they would consider a potential Lockheed aircraft type, unless Lockheed offered a deal similar to the deal AA got on the first batch of MD-80s. I don't see an aircraft manufacturer ever doing a deal like that.
trijetsonly wrote:Times have changed. It's not about beeing good looking and innovative anymore. It's only about how to implement supplier high-tech with highest cost efficiency.
ckfred wrote:Airline pilots I know lament that the wrong manufacturer got out of the commercial business, when Lockheed stopped production of the L-1011. They felt that the Tri-Star was vastly superior to the DC-10, and in a number of ways superior to the 747.
twaconnie wrote:Well if they ever build another airliner it would have to be named the twin star.
twaconnie wrote:Well if they ever build another airliner it would have to be named the twin star.
toxtethogrady wrote:Whew! For a minute, I thought you would suggest they were going to retool the C-5 to compete with the A380...
GalaxyFlyer wrote:It wasn’t the engine, it was the cowl doors and lack of acoustic cowling that made the noise.
GF
TheFlyingDisk wrote:Technically, they ARE in the civil aviation business...have we forgotten about the LM-100J?
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/pr ... -100j.html
JetBuddy wrote:It's funny how people are saying Lockheed will f*ck it up, since their last offering nearly 50 years ago only sold 250 frames, which wasn't actually that bad for a 70s widebody. (DC-10 sold 386).
DarthLobster wrote:Considering how well current programs like the F-35 and Orion spacecraft are going, no. Commercial operators won’t have the patience or wallets for the kind of bloat and heel-dragging that’s plagued LM of late.
IWMBH wrote:They are back in civil aviation with the LM-100J....