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SLCUT2777
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Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:40 am

With WS finalizing the terms of a Joint Venture with DL for trans-border operations, I think it’s safe to assume WestJet will soon be announcing some forthcoming U.S. destinations. We can all speculate where they might end up. My predictions:

AUS via YVR & YYC
SLC via YYC, YEG, YVR
ATL via YYZ, YUL & YYC
PDX via YVR, YYC
DTW via YYZ & YUL
MSP via YYC, YWG, YYZ & YUL
RDU via YUL & YYZ
SEA via YVR, YYC, YEG, YYZ & YUL
DFW via YYC, YEG & YYZ
JFK via YVR, YYZ, YYC, YUL, YOW & YQB

Perhaps via Encore we could see some
other Canada/U.S. city pairs emerge:

SLC via YYJ & YQL
MSP via both Saskatchewan cities
DTW to various smaller Ontario stations
JFK to Maritime Destinations
Last edited by SLCUT2777 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YYZatcboy
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:41 am

My own predictions for new destinations are somewhat more modest.

Jet:
YYC- ATL/MSP
YYZ - ATL

Prop
YYC - SEA/SLC
YVR - SEA/SLC
YQR/YXE/YQT/YWG - MSP
YYZ - MSP/DTW(maybe)
YOW/YUL - ATL

But these are all totally guesses.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:49 am

I fully expect MSP-YQR and MSP-YQT to return on WS Encore...
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:59 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
My own predictions for new destinations are somewhat more modest.

Jet:
YYC- ATL/MSP
YYZ - ATL

Prop
YYC - SEA/SLC
YVR - SEA/SLC
YQR/YXE/YQT/YWG - MSP
YYZ - MSP/DTW(maybe)
YOW/YUL - ATL

But these are all totally guesses.

As are mine. Keep in mind a connection on WS to any of these DL focus/hub cities will likely be part of the JV. ATL connects to a large number of DL Florida stations, SLC many smaller Mountain States & West Coast destinations.
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FA9295
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:17 am

SLCUT2777 wrote:
SEA via YVR, YYC, YEG, YYZ & YUL

I seriously doubt SEA is going to get all of these, if any at all. I'd be absolutely shocked to see YYZ and YUL get a Seattle nonstop on WestJet. Air Canada already does 2x daily in the summer months on YYZ-SEA, so there's really not much wiggle room in that market left, and I highly doubt that the demand is there for YUL, even with connections.

Everything else that you list I could see happening, though.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:36 am

I could definitely see JFK-YVR on WestJet using the Dreamliner precisely to compete against Air Canada and Cathay Pacific in that regard, and to replace Philippine Airlines' fifth freedom route which is ending as PR goes nonstop to MNL. (Air Canada uses the B789 on EWR-YVR with 30 J and 21 W seats, and Cathay Pacific uses a 4-class B77W with 6 F, 53 J, and 34 W seats.) WS plans 16 J and 28 W seats on its B789s. Such could likely replace the existing JFK-YYC service, currently flown on a mix of B736, B737, and B738 equipment. Using that JFK slot, it would compete directly against AC548/9, although Air Canada has the advantage of offering connections in YVR to its Asia flights and I don't believe Asia is in the cards for WestJet other than perhaps ICN...which would be if WS gets added to the DL/KE JV.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:48 am

I would be shocked if it replaced the YYC Service. If anything I would say the YYC service could see the Dreamliner. No one from Alberta would want to backtrack to go to NYC through YVR, but from YYC you can get connections throughout BC and the prairies. (Flight times to LGA through YYZ can be a bit of a drag for YQR/YXE depending on the time of day.) I also wouldn't discount YVR Australia/NZ on WS.
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Spruill7716
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:39 am

A possible return to MSY? They started service back there back in 2010 and the route lasted a few years. I don't know if AC competition drove them out or it was low demand. Can't seem to find anything about it.
 
master14225
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:01 am

Isn't T3 at YYZ is at maximum capacity? I've noticed Westjet hasn't added new destinations from YYZ for awhile now when compared to Air Canada and other Canadian airports. If this is so, then how will they add new routes out of YYZ soon unless there are more gates at T3?
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:40 am

master14225 wrote:
Isn't T3 at YYZ is at maximum capacity? I've noticed Westjet hasn't added new destinations from YYZ for awhile now when compared to Air Canada and other Canadian airports. If this is so, then how will they add new routes out of YYZ soon unless there are more gates at T3?


Seems like Sunwing and Transat are being partly booted to the infield terminal and remote gates.
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Atlwarrior
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:55 am

SLCUT2777 wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
My own predictions for new destinations are somewhat more modest.

Jet:
YYC- ATL/MSP
YYZ - ATL

Prop
YYC - SEA/SLC
YVR - SEA/SLC
YQR/YXE/YQT/YWG - MSP
YYZ - MSP/DTW(maybe)
YOW/YUL - ATL

But these are all totally guesses.

As are mine. Keep in mind a connection on WS to any of these DL focus/hub cities will likely be part of the JV. ATL connects to a large number of DL Florida stations, SLC many smaller Mountain States & West Coast destinations.


Delta will probably need to bring back seasonal Atlanta to Hilton Head, and add additional seasonal routes to MYR service as wells.
 
Jayce
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:05 am

I wouldn’t be surprised to see WS start YVR-JFK to compliment the seasonal Delta service and the YYC service.

IMHO I suspect YVR and especially YYZ will play increasingly larger roles as WestJet hubs with the 787s.
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Bobloblaw
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:22 am

Talk about over optimistic. The JV has to increase passenger trafffic to make a route viable. The value will be mostly is beyond gateway connections. ATL-YYC and YVR are two of the most likely, plus maybe JFK-YVR. In some cases there might be some Q400 cost savings by switching Delta RJ to a Q400.

The JV brings nothing to most of the OPs predicted new markets. The main goal of the JV is to jack up fares by reducing competition.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:58 am

RDU is probably a good bet. Montreal service would be welcomed and a lot of people would love something better than a CRJ on AC to Toronto. There is also a decent amount of people who connect via LGA on AA to YYZ daily.
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msycajun
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:36 am

Spruill7716 wrote:
A possible return to MSY? They started service back there back in 2010 and the route lasted a few years. I don't know if AC competition drove them out or it was low demand. Can't seem to find anything about it.


AC and WS announced MSY within a few days of each other. Remembering it was only a few years after Katrina and the recession, it wasn't a surprise that AC's daily service did better than WS 4 weekly especially with their closer ties to UA and much broader network at the time.

The market is much larger now and AC charges outrageous fares for their 1-2 daily nonstops. I think WS could do well if they can stimulate the market with lower fares and have the benefit of DL's large frequent flier base at MSY.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:03 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I could definitely see JFK-YVR on WestJet using the Dreamliner precisely to compete against Air Canada and Cathay Pacific in that regard, and to replace Philippine Airlines' fifth freedom route which is ending as PR goes nonstop to MNL. (Air Canada uses the B789 on EWR-YVR with 30 J and 21 W seats, and Cathay Pacific uses a 4-class B77W with 6 F, 53 J, and 34 W seats.) WS plans 16 J and 28 W seats on its B789s. Such could likely replace the existing JFK-YYC service, currently flown on a mix of B736, B737, and B738 equipment. Using that JFK slot, it would compete directly against AC548/9, although Air Canada has the advantage of offering connections in YVR to its Asia flights and I don't believe Asia is in the cards for WestJet other than perhaps ICN...which would be if WS gets added to the DL/KE JV.


Not a chance, not with such a limited number of frames available. The 787s will be essentially exclusively long haul and hub-hub flights to move frames to other locations for long haul.
 
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:06 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Isn't T3 at YYZ is at maximum capacity? I've noticed Westjet hasn't added new destinations from YYZ for awhile now when compared to Air Canada and other Canadian airports. If this is so, then how will they add new routes out of YYZ soon unless there are more gates at T3?


Seems like Sunwing and Transat are being partly booted to the infield terminal and remote gates.


No word on Sunwing, Transat will most certainly not be moving. According to a friend, they were asked and declined very strongly. They hold preferred status at T3 owing to their time spent there and thus have priority over most carriers. They also pay more to maintain this priority status.
 
kavok
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:15 pm

I can see a lot of the DTW/MSP/SEA-Canada routes that are currently operated by DL Connection RJs going to WestJet. Since DL is basically capped out on how much RJ service can be provided, shifting these existing Canadian routes from DL RJs to WestJet allows the Delta RJ flights to go elsewhere.

Basically, it indirectly allows the DL Connection to shift to other (non-Canada) locations currently not being served, without violating the RJ union agreements with the DL pilots. Add in a couple of mainline routes like YYC-ATL/DTW to be flown on DL mainline, and everyone can be happy.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 pm

FA9295 wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
SEA via YVR, YYC, YEG, YYZ & YUL

I seriously doubt SEA is going to get all of these, if any at all. I'd be absolutely shocked to see YYZ and YUL get a Seattle nonstop on WestJet. Air Canada already does 2x daily in the summer months on YYZ-SEA, so there's really not much wiggle room in that market left, and I highly doubt that the demand is there for YUL, even with connections.

Everything else that you list I could see happening, though.


I agree with you that WS wont start YYZ-SEA or YUL-SEA, but the latter is one of the largest unserved US markets out of YUL. Almost 50 PDEW and growing.

WS doesn't have the right equipment for the route. AC with the CSeries looks like the best way YUL will ever get SEA service.

Besides, I'm of the opinion that WS isn't going to lauch sh*t out of YUL. They canceled FLL, MCO, two huge markets out of YUL. They're soon canceling BOS and reduced service to YQB. I highly doubt they are going to launch ATL, DTW, MSP or even worse, YUL-RDU.

Quebec in general is not of interest to WestJet.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dominion301
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
My own predictions for new destinations are somewhat more modest.

Jet:
YYC- ATL/MSP
YYZ - ATL

Prop
YYC - SEA/SLC
YVR - SEA/SLC
YQR/YXE/YQT/YWG - MSP
YYZ - MSP/DTW(maybe)
YOW/YUL - ATL

But these are all totally guesses.


usflyer msp wrote:
I fully expect MSP-YQR and MSP-YQT to return on WS Encore...


I don't think WS will add much on existing DL transborder routes. If Encore is to add much, while a lot of the above makes sense, if they're to happen WS are going to have to place top-up order for more Q400s. It's also entirely possible that DL add more to Canada with their own metal too, like they did last year with the re-addition of YOW-LGA.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:45 pm

BOS-YYC? - I know WS had plans to start that route in 2018 but did not start that route for some reason.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:48 pm

I don't expect much in terms of new routes, this arrangement is built to connect pax, so hub to hub routes are the ones that will see most if not all of the growth as a result. Look for routes to ATL/NYC/MSP growing, but beyond that, there is little that changes. It doesn't really make point to point routes any more viable than they are now.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:04 pm

DTW-YYC wouldn't be a long shot at all, not sure why it hasn't been mentioned. The data suggests that the market is growing nonetheless, which skew connections via YYZ and YUL on the WS end.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:16 pm

DTW-YYC is 16 PDEW, and decreasing.
DTW-YVR has more chances of happening, as it is almost 3x larger than DTW-YYC.
BOS-YYC should be launched. 51 PDEW and growing.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:19 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
DTW-YYC is less than 16 PDEW.
Compared to the 6 it was 2 years ago. Add connections and you fill a 737-700. BJX had only about 12000 yearly pax, now they fly modestly full E190s since the route started. A JV can do a lot to a market.
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kavok
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:21 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DTW-YYC wouldn't be a long shot at all, not sure why it hasn't been mentioned. The data suggests that the market is growing nonetheless, which skew connections via YYZ and YUL on the WS end.



WS already flies YYC-Detroit/Windsor today. It would be very easy to shift that route from YQG to the Delta hub at DTW, as they both serve essentially the same market.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:22 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
DTW-YYC is less than 16 PDEW.
Compared to the 6 it was 2 years ago. Add connections and you fill a 737-700. BJX had only about 12000 yearly pax, now they fly modestly full E190s since the route started. A JV can do a lot to a market.


DTW-YYC O&D is on a downward trend, at least between 2015 and 2016.
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willenglish
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:27 pm

I will only be discussing adds to entire network, for example if one airline already flies a route but the other doesn’t I won’t add it in. Based on the market gap, I think some of the most logical adds are as follows;

MSP-YQR/YQT WJ DH4/DL CRJ

DL already serves both YWG and YXE from MSP, so I don’t see it likely Encore will add on to either of those cities. YQT and YQR both lack transborder service all together and would definitely make sense for a once daily round trip to MSP in the mornings.

DTW-YXU DL CRJ

YXU has reasonable service from WJ already, and for its population is underserved for transborder flights (due to close proximity to YYZ). I don’t see WJ using the DH4 on this since they only operate twice daily from YYZ, and obviously the jet doesn’t make sense.

YYC-ATL/BOS WJ 738/DL 32X/738

I think either or could add on this and would make sense, especially with all the connections out of each hub in both directions, although I lean towards DL for ATL and WJ for BOS. Would give AC some competition on West Canada - BOS after they recently started YVR.

YOW-ATL/MSP DL CRJ/E75

For a city the size of YOW, DL isn’t as big there as they could be. WJ has a fairly sizeable presence in YOW so I think the ATL route makes the most sense 1-2X daily to be timed for West Coast WJ connections. Although possible Encore could do ATL in the DH4, just seems like too long of a haul to justify a prop.

YYZ-RDU DL CRJ/E75 WJ DH4

With DL recently opening a focus city in RDU, this is a logical add to the network, too also compete with AC. I could see this running 2X daily, and is within range for the DH4, even though a little long.

YYC-AUS DL 73X/32X/E75 WJ 73X

Same deal as above, DL recently opening a focus city in AUS. 1X daily for 737/32X and 2X daily in the E75. Would only be the second available route Canada-AUS as well. I think I lean towards WJ adding here, but either or makes sense to me.

YLW-SEA/SLC WJ DH4/DL E75

WJ is very big in YLW, and it is a reasonably sized city with only one transborder route... also to SEA... and also served by DLs west coast nemesis, AS. I could see this up to 2-3X daily, and I lean towards SEA, however SLC also makes sense. I consider this to be one of the more likely additions I discuss.

Here are some more logical, but unlikely adds;

DL used to be huge in YHZ, serving ATL, LGA and DTW. However that clearly didn’t workout. As much as I’d like to see DL expand in YHZ, especially with increasing WJ presence, I’m not sure of any logical transborder add having already serving BOS & LGA between the two, maybe an increase in frequency. Maybe a daily DTW would also make sense.

People also discussing an add for YYT, and to me as nice as it’d be just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. UA used to operate YYT-EWR and it didn’t work out, so I don’t see an add to NY. MAYBE BOS, if anything new out of YYT, and don’t see it being mainline service. 1X DH4 for WJ or 1X E75 for DL.

Maybe LGA/JFK to Maritime destinations such as YQM YFC YSJ YYG. Would see this logical in DL CRJ, 1X daily.
Last edited by willenglish on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
berari
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:35 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
My own predictions for new destinations are somewhat more modest.

Jet:
YYC- ATL/MSP
YYZ - ATL

Prop
YYC - SEA/SLC
YVR - SEA/SLC
YQR/YXE/YQT/YWG - MSP
YYZ - MSP/DTW(maybe)
YOW/YUL - ATL

But these are all totally guesses.


I wonder about the SEA ones. DL is sending jets in to YYC and YVR having parted ways with AS on these routes. AS is also sending in jets.
 
notdownnlocked
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 pm

Delta in a JV with Westjet route predicitions are so easy a blind man can do it. Look to Delta's JV with VS, KL AF and AM to get your answer. DL flies 1-2 ATL-YYZ and the rest is on Westjet. Easy money shared by all and less routes flown by Delta. What could be better? You people are way way overthinking the possibilities. With that being said everyone should not expect to see a WS plane in ATL.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:11 pm

notdownnlocked wrote:
Delta in a JV with Westjet route predicitions are so easy a blind man can do it. Look to Delta's JV with VS, KL AF and AM to get your answer. DL flies 1-2 ATL-YYZ and the rest is on Westjet. Easy money shared by all and less routes flown by Delta. What could be better? You people are way way overthinking the possibilities. With that being said everyone should not expect to see a WS plane in ATL.


DL flies 5-6x daily ATL-YYZ, that market alone, with or without WestJet is quite large. It stands to reason that this JV would only bolster the route's scope.

That many daily RTs alone wouldn't be possible given that WestJet has a network of their own to fly, it isn't like they have a ton of excess capacity at this moment to do DL's bidding.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:14 pm

In almost all the potential routes mentioned, the JV brings nothing that cannot be done today. There are a few that are intriguing but most arent viable JV or no JV.

For example, YQT to MSP. Unless the Q400 has costs substantially lower than Delta's CRJ, this route makes no sense. The JV results in no revenue synergies here nor does it result in revenue synergies in most suggested markets.

JFK/ATL-YVR/YYC makes the most sense
ATL-YOW, JV brings very little and no one will connect to the west through YOW. That said YOW should probably have one daily ATL trip on a CR7 anyway
AUS-YYC: interesting, but once daily if that, not 2x E175s.
RDU-YYZ: Delta doesnt bring a whole lot here, not like anyone will be connecting through RDU. This is a corporate account market from YYZ and AC owns the account
YLW-SLC/SEA: AS already has YLW and JV brings nothing, how much YLW traffic do people think there is? SLC can be flown by Delta today, nothing stopping them except red ink.

It is quite telling that WS dropped YUL-BOS even in anticipation of the JV. If that doesnt work, most the suggested adds probably wont work.

JVs dont result in an explosion of new traffic or routes. They can create new capacity in "hub to hub" markets like ATL-YYC/YVR. But that is mostly it.
 
cumulushumilis
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:44 pm

Predictions are fun, however a lot of the growth I see coming from the DL side of things. WS does not have anymore Q400 frames coming and the short term intake on MAX 8s just barely covers the aircraft leaving the fleet for Swoop and lease returns. In the near term the JV will see a realignment of airport operations in current hubs such as YYC, YVR, YYZ , BOS, LGA, and JFK. ATL will most likely get added but beyond that mostly likely up-gauges.
 
amcnd
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:25 pm

I hope DL starts more routes... SLC/SEA- YLW and SLC-YYJ would be nice.. UA tried YLW to LAX and SFO and didn’t last..
 
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flymco753
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:34 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
DTW-YVR has more chances of happening, as it is almost 3x larger than DTW-YYC.
YVR it may be. I can also see WS taking over DL's current CRJ flights from DTW-YOW. Prop not jet.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:47 pm

WS is not moving any flights from YQG to DTW. That is silly.

Those flights are supported by domestic Canadian traffic which will not go to DTW.
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Unlikely, but I'd like to see Encore try flying to major DL stations from YTZ. Maybe DTW, JFK, ATL... or even BOS, MSP and CVG?
 
kavok
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:49 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
DTW-YVR has more chances of happening, as it is almost 3x larger than DTW-YYC.
YVR it may be. I can also see WS taking over DL's current CRJ flights from DTW-YOW. Prop not jet.


I will also be curious to see WS shifts their existing YYC-YQG flight from YQG to DTW. Since they are both (sort of) the same market, and the two airports less than a 30 mile drive apart, I can see some value in WS tapping into the DL connections available at DTW and moving the flight over.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:33 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
In almost all the potential routes mentioned, the JV brings nothing that cannot be done today. There are a few that are intriguing but most arent viable JV or no JV.

For example, YQT to MSP. Unless the Q400 has costs substantially lower than Delta's CRJ, this route makes no sense.


WS can tap into Canadian POS traffic that Delta would have difficulty with and WS pax benefit from much shorter transit times heading to the western and central US via MSP compared to YYZ...
 
kavok
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:51 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
In almost all the potential routes mentioned, the JV brings nothing that cannot be done today. There are a few that are intriguing but most arent viable JV or no JV.

For example, YQT to MSP. Unless the Q400 has costs substantially lower than Delta's CRJ, this route makes no sense.


WS can tap into Canadian POS traffic that Delta would have difficulty with and WS pax benefit from much shorter transit times heading to the western and central US via MSP compared to YYZ...


But historically WS has been a LCC type of airline. It is not a legacy type carrier with business pax who have FF status, collect miles, and go out of their way to fly that specific airline. People fly WS because it is either the best price, itenerary, or some combination there of.

Most Canadian POS traffic views DL much the same way. They would fly DL if DL offered the best priceor itenerary, but historically DL has not been able to get enough Canadian customers to make it work.

Point being, I fail to see what advantages WS offers over DL to the Canadian POS. Maybe in Calgary, but beyond that probably no. That is why the only additions I see from this JV are possibly a few flights from YYC to select DL hubs, and possibly the shifting of existing DL flights to Canada onto WS metal.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:54 pm

kavok wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
DTW-YVR has more chances of happening, as it is almost 3x larger than DTW-YYC.
YVR it may be. I can also see WS taking over DL's current CRJ flights from DTW-YOW. Prop not jet.


I will also be curious to see WS shifts their existing YYC-YQG flight from YQG to DTW. Since they are both (sort of) the same market, and the two airports less than a 30 mile drive apart, I can see some value in WS tapping into the DL connections available at DTW and moving the flight over.


There's no chance WS shifts YYC-YQG to DTW as who in their right mind would cross the border twice for a domestic flight? WS might add YYC-DTW to complement YQG, but even that's a stretch as there's very little DTW offers that DL's existing YYC-MSP doesn't already offer.

As for YYC-AUS, I could see WS adding that as a seasonal Thurs/Sun service like YYC-BNA....which has since grown to 4x weekly. Would be more for leisure than to feed DL.

The most realistic adds with the JV are YYC/YVR-ATL, YQR-MSP, YOW-ATL and more capacity on existing transborder routes to DL hubs.
 
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jmw99ttu
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:59 pm

I don't see any of the DFW routes coming to fruition. WS could only manage a seasonal YYC-DFW with an AA code share agreement. DL isn't going to be offering up any traffic on the DFW end of things. I'd love to be wrong, but I just don't think it'll happen.

On a side note, I've flown WS a couple of times on DFW-YYC and enjoyed the experience every time. (My only 737-600 flights!)
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:09 pm

kavok wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
In almost all the potential routes mentioned, the JV brings nothing that cannot be done today. There are a few that are intriguing but most arent viable JV or no JV.

For example, YQT to MSP. Unless the Q400 has costs substantially lower than Delta's CRJ, this route makes no sense.


WS can tap into Canadian POS traffic that Delta would have difficulty with and WS pax benefit from much shorter transit times heading to the western and central US via MSP compared to YYZ...


But historically WS has been a LCC type of airline. It is not a legacy type carrier with business pax who have FF status, collect miles, and go out of their way to fly that specific airline. People fly WS because it is either the best price, itenerary, or some combination there of.

Most Canadian POS traffic views DL much the same way. They would fly DL if DL offered the best priceor itenerary, but historically DL has not been able to get enough Canadian customers to make it work.

Point being, I fail to see what advantages WS offers over DL to the Canadian POS. Maybe in Calgary, but beyond that probably no. That is why the only additions I see from this JV are possibly a few flights from YYC to select DL hubs, and possibly the shifting of existing DL flights to Canada onto WS metal.


With the addition of Westjet Premium, WS is pretty much a legacy carrier now - they have an FF program, corporate contracts, a premium cabin, wide body aircraft and a regional carrier. They are not AC but they do have a strong following in Canada, even amongst business travelers.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
kavok wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

WS can tap into Canadian POS traffic that Delta would have difficulty with and WS pax benefit from much shorter transit times heading to the western and central US via MSP compared to YYZ...


But historically WS has been a LCC type of airline. It is not a legacy type carrier with business pax who have FF status, collect miles, and go out of their way to fly that specific airline. People fly WS because it is either the best price, itenerary, or some combination there of.

Most Canadian POS traffic views DL much the same way. They would fly DL if DL offered the best priceor itenerary, but historically DL has not been able to get enough Canadian customers to make it work.

Point being, I fail to see what advantages WS offers over DL to the Canadian POS. Maybe in Calgary, but beyond that probably no. That is why the only additions I see from this JV are possibly a few flights from YYC to select DL hubs, and possibly the shifting of existing DL flights to Canada onto WS metal.


With the addition of Westjet Premium, WS is pretty much a legacy carrier now - they have an FF program, corporate contracts, a premium cabin, wide body aircraft and a regional carrier. They are not AC but they do have a strong following in Canada, even amongst business travelers.


Speaking as a Canadian who travels frequently, and by my own account, I am pretty well versed in the Canadian side of the industry, people fly WestJet for the service, not the price or itinerary, at least not often. WestJet fares are equal to AC on just about every market they serve, and they generally have less frequency compared to AC, not to mention there are few markets they serve that AC does not. What they do have is a very good reputation amongst Canadians for offering more personable service, in my extensive experience with both WS and AC, I can't say there is one heads and shoulders above the other, though one area where WS excels is customer support, they seem to be significantly more helpful than AC in that regard. (Mind you, that is only my personal experience).
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:07 pm

If WS wants more NYC options from DL it will be to LGA rather than JFK, similarly DL has enough DCA slots & enough power to swing a perimeter exemption to either from one of their western points of service like YVR or YYC. All said they’ve worked with both DL & AA as well as a short lived yet aborted attempt with WN over the years. If DL had any leverage so far as the eastern U.S. seaboard that won this duel with AA, it would be its slot ownership at LGA since JFK does subtantialky less for them & their guest clientele.

However WS is a western based carrier (YYC) & I suspect SLC & SEA will come more quickly as new stations. SLC offers many trans-con & west coast connections that will serve WS guests very well.
Last edited by SLCUT2777 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:11 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
kavok wrote:

But historically WS has been a LCC type of airline. It is not a legacy type carrier with business pax who have FF status, collect miles, and go out of their way to fly that specific airline. People fly WS because it is either the best price, itenerary, or some combination there of.

Most Canadian POS traffic views DL much the same way. They would fly DL if DL offered the best priceor itenerary, but historically DL has not been able to get enough Canadian customers to make it work.

Point being, I fail to see what advantages WS offers over DL to the Canadian POS. Maybe in Calgary, but beyond that probably no. That is why the only additions I see from this JV are possibly a few flights from YYC to select DL hubs, and possibly the shifting of existing DL flights to Canada onto WS metal.


With the addition of Westjet Premium, WS is pretty much a legacy carrier now - they have an FF program, corporate contracts, a premium cabin, wide body aircraft and a regional carrier. They are not AC but they do have a strong following in Canada, even amongst business travelers.


Speaking as a Canadian who travels frequently, and by my own account, I am pretty well versed in the Canadian side of the industry, people fly WestJet for the service, not the price or itinerary, at least not often. WestJet fares are equal to AC on just about every market they serve, and they generally have less frequency compared to AC, not to mention there are few markets they serve that AC does not. What they do have is a very good reputation amongst Canadians for offering more personable service, in my extensive experience with both WS and AC, I can't say there is one heads and shoulders above the other, though one area where WS excels is customer support, they seem to be significantly more helpful than AC in that regard. (Mind you, that is only my personal experience).


That said the corporate & workforce cultures at both WS & DL are similar, mostly non organized labour (Despite the NW merger, most DL employees hat the idea of being unionize).
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:39 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
It is quite telling that WS dropped YUL-BOS even in anticipation of the JV. If that doesnt work, most the suggested adds probably wont work.

YUL-BOS is a completely different beast than the possible YYC-BOS. On BOS-YUL airlines have to face the reality of lots of people who are willing to make the drive between the markets. YYC-BOS most people will fly rather than drive. Additionally, YUL-BOS has been served by AC for ages so it's a lot harder for WS to succeed. If WS entered YYC-BOS it wouldn't face any nonstop competition and I'm sure a lot of people would rather fly non-stop rather than connect. With the recent growth of PDEW from BOS-YYC I really think WS could make it succeed.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:08 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
It is quite telling that WS dropped YUL-BOS even in anticipation of the JV. If that doesnt work, most the suggested adds probably wont work.

YUL-BOS is a completely different beast than the possible YYC-BOS. On BOS-YUL airlines have to face the reality of lots of people who are willing to make the drive between the markets. YYC-BOS most people will fly rather than drive. Additionally, YUL-BOS has been served by AC for ages so it's a lot harder for WS to succeed. If WS entered YYC-BOS it wouldn't face any nonstop competition and I'm sure a lot of people would rather fly non-stop rather than connect. With the recent growth of PDEW from BOS-YYC I really think WS could make it succeed.


I'm comparing YUL to BOS to other Q400 markets. Not to long haul markets
 
tofur
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:35 am

That said the corporate & workforce cultures at both WS & DL are similar, mostly non organized labour (Despite the NW merger, most DL employees hat the idea of being unionize).[/quote]

Westjet cabin crew have overwhelmingly voted to join the union at CUPE, which represents cabin crew at most airlines in Canada. I believe I read somewhere here on another thread that the pilots voted for union representation as well.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Possible future WestJet U.S. destinations with Delta JV

Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:59 am

tofur wrote:
That said the corporate & workforce cultures at both WS & DL are similar, mostly non organized labour (Despite the NW merger, most DL employees hat the idea of being unionize).


Westjet cabin crew have overwhelmingly voted to join the union at CUPE, which represents cabin crew at most airlines in Canada. I believe I read somewhere here on another thread that the pilots voted for union representation as well.[/quote]

Pilots are ALPA, and the FAs have begin the process of unionizing.

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