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Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:21 am
by Balloonchaser
Hey Folks. Does anyone have any airline history of KISP?

I currently have that these airlines have operated/still operate from ISP. But I would like to find out more about this.

SWA:
X4 Daily ISP-PVD
X1 Daily ISP-JAX
X1 Daily ISP-FLL
X3 Daily ISP-BNA
ISP-BWI
ISP-MDW
ISP-TPA
ISP-MCO
ISP-LAS
ISP-RSW

NK:
ISP-FLL

US:
ISP-DCA
ISP-PHL

G4:
ISP-PGD

F9:
ISP-RSW
ISP-FLL
ISP-MIA
ISP-MCO
ISP-MSY
ISP-ATL
ISP-MYR
ISP-DTW
ISP-MSP
ISP-ORD
ISP-SJU

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:11 am
by mark787
If you are going with history, I believe Eastern once served it as a stop over from BOS to MIA, and I believe AA also had tried ISP to MIA once.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:34 am
by mga707
Pre-deregulation, American flew ISP-ORD with 727s. ISP flights began in 1971. Allegheny was the Local Service carrier with scheduled service to ISP pre-deregulation, starting in the late 1950s. Mohawk also served ISP from the mid-1960s until their acquisition by Allegheny in 1972.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:01 am
by BatonOps
Empire Airlines (UR) served ISP in the 80's from SYR.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:27 am
by WalTay65
US/Piedmont ISP - CLT and BWI
Altair ISP- PHL
NewAir ISP - HVN

And yes, AA did briefly fly ISP MIA. I actually flew it once on a 727-200 with only 5 or so passengers onboard. No wonder it didn't last!!

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:29 am
by EWRandMDW
In the early 1990s CO flew 5x between ISP and EWR using ATR42s.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:58 am
by jetskipper
In the late 90s/early 20s Continental flew ISP-CLE 3 times a day with an EMB-145.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:44 pm
by Cody
Northeastern put ISP back on the map in 1982 when they began flights to FLL. Later they added BOS, BDL, MCO, and PIE. They were planning on adding Bermuda, but went bankrupt before they did.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:53 pm
by Art at ISP
Northeastern, I believe, flew DC8s and A300s into ISP for a while. I remember watching the DC8 take off, and nearly run out of runway.
I personally flew ISP-ALB/PHL/EWR/MIA/ORD/CLT and more from ISP in the 1980s and 1990s.

EA service from ISP was a PVD-ISP-FLL route, flown for a while with a 757!!!

I wish the "real" airlines would come back, I really do. I hate the drive to JFK and LGA especially at 6-7AM...and back at 3-7PM....

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:55 pm
by flymco753
DL would do fine with DTW and ATL flights. 1x daily CR7 to DTW and 2x CR9 to ATL would be perfect.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:15 pm
by Xcarrier
My memory is a little vague but in 1978, I think sometime around March or April, I flew on an Allegheny 1-11 ISP-ALB and also ISP-DCA which I think was on a DC9. Also, at an event to celebrate the ?? Years Anniversary of ISP, I took a ride from ISP over Manhattan and back on an AA 727.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:27 pm
by LotsaRunway
besides ISP-ALB, US also did ISP-PIT, mostly on D93s.
AA did ISP-ORD with MD-80s. I remember being surprised watching one taking off from RW 15R (5168ft) with very little room to spare.
EA did ISP-ATL for a short while with the 727-100.
CO did a very short ISP-EWR
A few airlines did ISP-BOS
and Carnival had a bunch of Florida flying before WN drove them out.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:30 pm
by evank516
Ah, the Islip of yesteryear...here's what I remember:
DL
ISP-ATL
ISP-CVG
ISP-MCO (DL Express)
ISP-FLL (DL Express)
ISP-BOS (Business Express Days)

AA:
ISP-RDU (My first flight ever)
ISP-ORD

FL:
ISP-MCO (waaayy back when they were first starting, this was 1997)

CO:
ISP-CLE
ISP-ALB (Continental Connection)

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:34 pm
by WalTay65
Forgot about these too:
UA
ISP - ORD
ISP - MDT - ORD

US
ISP - ALB - PIT
ISP - PIT

AA
ISP - RDU

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:35 pm
by n7190jr
Delta had decent Islip service at one point. Not sure of the time frame or Frequencies, but I know they did CVG, ATL, TPA, MCO, and maybe even BOS. The Florida Service was branded as DLX and/or Song, ATL was mainline until the end, and CVG (and I think BOS) was DCI. I know The former Delta station manager of Islip and will double check with him.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:42 pm
by evank516
n7190jr wrote:
Delta had decent Islip service at one point. Not sure of the time frame or Frequencies, but I know they did CVG, ATL, TPA, MCO, and maybe even BOS. The Florida Service was branded as DLX and/or Song, ATL was mainline until the end, and CVG (and I think BOS) was DCI. I know The former Delta station manager of Islip and will double check with him.


ATL was never mainline in Islip. It was CR7s at it's height (maybe a brief period of CR9, but I don't think so. They weren't really in the system at the time IIRC), and down to CRJs at the end. Song also never made it to ISP either, Delta Express service was down to ISP-FLL at the end and when it changed over to Song ISP just had Delta Connection to ISP and CVG. BOS was there too (Delta Connection). I really think DL will be back though, and while it may not start that way, ISP-ATL will definitely have at least one 717 on it at some point when it does come back.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:51 pm
by sspontak
Looking back I remember flying these routes out of ISP in 1980's, 90's and 2000's.

1980's
USAir ISP-PIT Bac111, ISP-ALB 737-200
Eastern ISP-FLL 727-100
Piedmont ISP-BWI Dash 8, ISP-CLT 737-200
New York Air ISP-IAD DC9, 737-300
American ISP-ORD MD-80
United ISP-ORD 727-200

1990's
Eastern ISP-ATL DC9
Carnival Air ISP-FLL 737-400, ISP-TPA 737-400
DL Connection - Business Express ISP-BOS Beachcraft 1900

2000's
USAir Express ISP-DCA Dash 8, ISP-PHL Dash 8
USAir ISP-MCO MD-80
Delta Connection ISP-ATL CRJ, ISP-CVG CRJ
Delta Express ISP-FLL 737-200, ISP-MCO 737-200, ISP-TPA 737-200
Southwest ISP-PVD 737-700, ISP-MDW 737-700

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:54 pm
by evank516
sspontak wrote:
Looking back I remember flying these routes out of ISP in 1980's, 90's and 2000's.

1980's
USAir ISP-PIT Bac111, ISP-ALB 737-200
Eastern ISP-FLL 727-100
Piedmont ISP-BWI Dash 8, ISP-CLT 737-200
New York Air ISP-IAD DC9, 737-300
American ISP-ORD MD-80
United ISP-ORD 727-200

1990's
Eastern ISP-ATL DC9
Carnival Air ISP-FLL 737-400, ISP-TPA 737-400
DL Connection - Business Express ISP-BOS Beachcraft 1900

2000's
USAir Express ISP-DCA Dash 8, ISP-PHL Dash 8
USAir ISP-MCO MD-80
Delta Connection ISP-ATL CRJ, ISP-CVG CRJ
Delta Express ISP-FLL 737-200, ISP-MCO 737-200, ISP-TPA 737-200
Southwest ISP-PVD 737-700, ISP-MDW 737-700


Add ISP-RDU in the 1980s and 1990s for AA. MD-80s
Delta Connection ISP-ATL, does CRJ include CR7?
FL had a brief stint in ISP as well. I flew them in 1997 from ISP-MCO on a 737-200.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:57 pm
by WNflyer1523
Didn’t carnival used to fly to ISP as well?
Spirit also had a while ago a bunch of Florida destinations and DTW.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:00 pm
by evank516
WNflyer1523 wrote:
Didn’t carnival used to fly to ISP as well?
Spirit also had a while ago a bunch of Florida destinations and DTW.


That's right! NK did ISP-DTW and ISP-PBI/TPA/MCO/FLL (might be one there that didn't happen, but that's what I think it was) before they could get into LGA. I remember them there. Then when they turned into garbage they came back in 2008 the day after DL left and did ISP-FLL for like 3 months.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:51 pm
by drdisque
Didn't Colgan also fly ISP-BOS on a US code at some point?

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:35 pm
by TWFlyGuy
Amazing that Delta & United have no service and AA is only to PHL given the population.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:02 pm
by evank516
TWFlyGuy wrote:
Amazing that Delta & United have no service and AA is only to PHL given the population.


It really is. The biggest issue is JFK and LGA being somewhat accessible without tolls or bridges despite the fact that traffic can make it a 2 hour drive. I would totally use ISP if more major airlines went back, especially DL, but with the service ISP has now I just can't make it work, but I would if the flights were there. DL just announced a return to ORH, a market that was dropped well before ISP. I can only imagine DL will be back in the next 5 years. They'd be a great candidate for IAD flights if UA really wants to use that hub for connecting traffic too.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:28 pm
by sspontak
An airline called Presidential had 737 service to the Washington DC in the 1980's. It was probably to IAD. Does anyone remember this service?

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:29 pm
by sspontak
Continental Express flew ISP to EWR for a short period in the early 1990's. Does anyone remember which aircraft they used?

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:50 pm
by STT757
sspontak wrote:
Continental Express flew ISP to EWR for a short period in the early 1990's. Does anyone remember which aircraft they used?


They flew five daily ATR-42 EWR-ISP for about 12-15 years.

http://www.departedflights.com/ISP91p1.html

Eastern flew from Islip:

PVD-ISP-FLL 1 daily 757
ISP-MCO-MIA 1 daily 727

http://www.departedflights.com/EA083187p56.html

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:55 pm
by sspontak
evank516 wrote:

Add ISP-RDU in the 1980s and 1990s for AA. MD-80s
Delta Connection ISP-ATL, does CRJ include CR7?
FL had a brief stint in ISP as well. I flew them in 1997 from ISP-MCO on a 737-200.


DL Connection ISP-ATL did use both the CRJ and CR7 on this route.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:58 pm
by sspontak
I also remember in the early 1990's, flying Braniff on an ex Pan Am 727-200 between ISP-PBI. Braniff served a full breakfast on this flight.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:07 pm
by TWFlyGuy
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
Amazing that Delta & United have no service and AA is only to PHL given the population.


It really is. The biggest issue is JFK and LGA being somewhat accessible without tolls or bridges despite the fact that traffic can make it a 2 hour drive. I would totally use ISP if more major airlines went back, especially DL, but with the service ISP has now I just can't make it work, but I would if the flights were there. DL just announced a return to ORH, a market that was dropped well before ISP. I can only imagine DL will be back in the next 5 years. They'd be a great candidate for IAD flights if UA really wants to use that hub for connecting traffic too.


I get it and you're right it just seems that the same should apply to HPN but doesn't. There's a lot of wealth in LI so it shouldn't be that. I guess there is a bit of, right now, people are making the trek to JFK/LGA if they need to so why spread resources if the airlines don't need to. Customers aren't flowing to AA in droves so nobody is seeing the demand so this is what they get.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:10 pm
by evank516
sspontak wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Add ISP-RDU in the 1980s and 1990s for AA. MD-80s
Delta Connection ISP-ATL, does CRJ include CR7?
FL had a brief stint in ISP as well. I flew them in 1997 from ISP-MCO on a 737-200.


DL Connection ISP-ATL did use both the CRJ and CR7 on this route.


I know that, I've flown it. The post I quoted did not disclose whether saying CRJ included the CR7.

TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
Amazing that Delta & United have no service and AA is only to PHL given the population.


It really is. The biggest issue is JFK and LGA being somewhat accessible without tolls or bridges despite the fact that traffic can make it a 2 hour drive. I would totally use ISP if more major airlines went back, especially DL, but with the service ISP has now I just can't make it work, but I would if the flights were there. DL just announced a return to ORH, a market that was dropped well before ISP. I can only imagine DL will be back in the next 5 years. They'd be a great candidate for IAD flights if UA really wants to use that hub for connecting traffic too.


I get it and you're right it just seems that the same should apply to HPN but doesn't. There's a lot of wealth in LI so it shouldn't be that. I guess there is a bit of, right now, people are making the trek to JFK/LGA if they need to so why spread resources if the airlines don't need to. Customers aren't flowing to AA in droves so nobody is seeing the demand so this is what they get.


That's a big thing. I really think ISP can support it given HPN can. The only difference between the two is the bridges you need to take to get to LGA and JFK from the HPN area as opposed to no bridges (which means no tolls) to get from the ISP area to LGA and JFK.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:10 pm
by Cody
sspontak wrote:
An airline called Presidential had 737 service to the Washington DC in the 1980's. It was probably to IAD. Does anyone remember this service?


I do remember this. In fact I remember being at the gate area at Dulles airport and seeing a Presidential Bae 146 heading to Islip. The name on the airplane was the Ulysses Grant.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:41 pm
by Balloonchaser
So with all of this being said... It proves that the Long Island Market can sustain service from not only LCC but also from airlines like Delta, and American.

We are now seeing the market strive again, but why are Airlines like Delta or Spirit hesitant about coming back to LIMA? Why is Southwest and American hesitant about expanding at LIMA? What is stopping them?

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:32 pm
by Moose135
Balloonchaser wrote:
We are now seeing the market strive again, but why are Airlines like Delta or Spirit hesitant about coming back to LIMA? Why is Southwest and American hesitant about expanding at LIMA? What is stopping them?

They are probably looking at the cost of operations, and comparing that to the number of new passengers they would attract - new meaning those not cannibalized from their current NYC operations. If they feel most of the traffic would be move-over from NYC, it may not be cost effective.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:07 pm
by e38
I flew ISP - DTW in 2000 on a Northwest Airlines DC9-30 aircraft.

e38

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:19 pm
by timz
Art at ISP wrote:
Northeastern, I believe, flew DC8s and A300s into ISP for a while.

ISP's longest runway was 6000 feet-- shortest runway ever for a scheduled DC-8?

Airport Activity Statistics shows 942 DC-8-62 departures from ISP in 1984, plus a few -50s.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:09 am
by Cody
In regard to the Northeastern DC-8 at ISP, it did in fact happen. I was told when the runways were wet they always had to divert to JFK.

As far as I know, Northeastern never operated scheduled A300 flights to ISP. However, it is possible they may have landed one there for show.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:37 pm
by evank516
timz wrote:
Art at ISP wrote:
Northeastern, I believe, flew DC8s and A300s into ISP for a while.

ISP's longest runway was 6000 feet-- shortest runway ever for a scheduled DC-8?

Airport Activity Statistics shows 942 DC-8-62 departures from ISP in 1984, plus a few -50s.


When was 6/24 extended to it's current length (7,006 feet)?

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:48 pm
by quintinsoloviev
Due to Frontier attempting to operate flights from ISP to many places (i.e. Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans) and failing is a sign that there isn't a large market for those flights. American offers ISP-PHL to connect passengers anywhere, and that flight is usually full, but that doesn't mean Delta or United is willing to attempt the same thing.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:22 pm
by WNflyer1523
quintinsoloviev wrote:
Due to Frontier attempting to operate flights from ISP to many places (i.e. Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans) and failing is a sign that there isn't a large market for those flights. American offers ISP-PHL to connect passengers anywhere, and that flight is usually full, but that doesn't mean Delta or United is willing to attempt the same thing.

I'm still waiting for the long overdue ISP-CLT

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:24 am
by zrs70
I've got my OAG 1982 January desktop guide out. At that time, USAir was the only carrier offering full Jet service, with D9S's and B11 to ALB and DCA nonstop.

Re: Airline History @ KISP

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:49 pm
by evank516
quintinsoloviev wrote:
Due to Frontier attempting to operate flights from ISP to many places (i.e. Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans) and failing is a sign that there isn't a large market for those flights. American offers ISP-PHL to connect passengers anywhere, and that flight is usually full, but that doesn't mean Delta or United is willing to attempt the same thing.


Please tell me how Frontier doing less than daily P2P flights from ISP-MSP/DTW (yes I know they continued to DEN, but one stop to a hub? Come on!!) is the same as a network carrier with a major hub in these cities offering daily service???

Do you realize the gigantic plethora of connections ISP-ATL on DL would open up? PHL can't even be matched and frankly a lot of itineraries will require double connections via PHL that might be single connections via CLT or ATL. Frontier is a test of O&D, but anyone flying ISP-ATL on F9 is destined for ATL. Anyone flying to ATL on DL is 90% likely to NOT be going to ATL.

Also, let's also remember that AA, DL, and UA all have multiple aircraft types to right size a market. F9 doesn't have such a luxury as a ULCC. It's the A320 series or nothing. To tell me AA couldn't fill a large RJ to CLT or DL couldn't fill a CR9/717 to ATL is insane. The real question is what it would take to fill said planes.