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lightmac
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Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?
Which airline runs a lot of lounges abroad? I am aware of SAS in Chicago and Newark (I believe these are their only overseas lounges, but they run one at Paris and Helsinki each), SWISS in New York JFK and Chicago or Air Canada in Frankfurt etc.
 
PlaneBoo
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:30 pm

Qantas has 8 - AKL, HNL, LAX, NRT, WLG, HKG, LHR, and SIN
 
bevan7
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:44 pm

Emirates has 35
Auckland,Frankfurt, Milan,Bangkok,Glasgow, Munich,Beijing,Hamburg,New York John F. Kennedy,Birmingham,Hong Kong,Paris Charles de Gaulle,Boston,Istanbul, Perth,Brisbane,Johannesburg,Rome,Cairo,Kuala Lumpur,San Francisco,Cape, Town,London Gatwick,Shanghai,Colombo,London Heathrow,Singapore,Delhi,Los Angeles, Sydney,Manchester,Tokio Narita,Düsseldorf, Melbourne,Zürich
 
sevenair
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:57 pm

According to BA.com they have 30.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:18 pm

EK has 35 lounges overseas so I'm guessing they must be up there
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:20 pm

The question isn't meaningful because of partner lounge access.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The question isn't meaningful because of partner lounge access.


and?
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Jouhou
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:04 pm

lightmac wrote:
Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?
Which airline runs a lot of lounges abroad? I am aware of SAS in Chicago and Newark (I believe these are their only overseas lounges, but they run one at Paris and Helsinki each), SWISS in New York JFK and Chicago or Air Canada in Frankfurt etc.


There's 3 lufthansa flights a day in BOS and I'm pretty sure it has to do with which routes are the most premium heavy.

Also AF has an extensive network although it's difficult to pin down an exact number with a simple Google search.
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johns624
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:12 pm

lightmac wrote:
Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?

DTW probably has one because there are no other partner lounges in the North Terminal.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:22 pm

lightmac wrote:
[Lufthansa] Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?


Easy, the business case scenario is not favourable. In BCN Aena (airport operator) runs 3 lounges:
1- Schengen area - Main departure lounge
2- Schengen area - MAD corridor
3- non-Schengen area

If LH were to set a Business class lounge, I guess it would be Schengen. Then it only could serve Schengen Star alliance flights. While other Star carrier's passengers could use it (should they have Schengen access) it would mean getting out early to go thru passport control.
So no-Schengen Star carriers would still contract the Aena non-Schengen lounge which is better located.
And other carriers as AF, KLM, AZ, AY, BA... would not be keen to pay for a LH-branded lounge if there is something else available.

At the end the business case is quite simple:
1 - Contracting the site to the airport, CapEx on the lounge and OpEx to run it to get: savings on your own passengers + income on other carrier's vistis
2- Contracting the use of a 3rd party lounge for your passengers and pay (likely) per visit.

Which one seems easier to manage?
 
blueflyer
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:25 pm

lightmac wrote:
Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?

Besides top-tier frequent fliers, of which there aren't that many at hub cities of other carriers, only a few passengers connecting to long-haul flights benefit from a lounge at European airports. A lounge in BCN may see the same daily traffic as one on BOS, however in BCN it would have to be open and staffed throughout the day, whereas in BOS it would be only for a handful of hours per day. I guess Lufthansa, and other airlines for that matter, have decided it is more cost effective to pay for access to a third-party lounge as needed than to operate their own all day for a very limited number of passengers per flight.
 
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rida79
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:44 pm

bevan7 wrote:
Emirates has 35
Auckland,Frankfurt, Milan,Bangkok,Glasgow, Munich,Beijing,Hamburg,New York John F. Kennedy,Birmingham,Hong Kong,Paris Charles de Gaulle,Boston,Istanbul, Perth,Brisbane,Johannesburg,Rome,Cairo,Kuala Lumpur,San Francisco,Cape, Town,London Gatwick,Shanghai,Colombo,London Heathrow,Singapore,Delhi,Los Angeles, Sydney,Manchester,Tokio Narita,Düsseldorf, Melbourne,Zürich



Add Kuwait to that list, so EK has 36 lounges
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:29 pm

Aisak wrote:
lightmac wrote:
[Lufthansa] Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?


Easy, the business case scenario is not favourable. In BCN Aena (airport operator) runs 3 lounges:
1- Schengen area - Main departure lounge
2- Schengen area - MAD corridor
3- non-Schengen area

If LH were to set a Business class lounge, I guess it would be Schengen. Then it only could serve Schengen Star alliance flights. While other Star carrier's passengers could use it (should they have Schengen access) it would mean getting out early to go thru passport control.
So no-Schengen Star carriers would still contract the Aena non-Schengen lounge which is better located.
And other carriers as AF, KLM, AZ, AY, BA... would not be keen to pay for a LH-branded lounge if there is something else available.

At the end the business case is quite simple:
1 - Contracting the site to the airport, CapEx on the lounge and OpEx to run it to get: savings on your own passengers + income on other carrier's vistis
2- Contracting the use of a 3rd party lounge for your passengers and pay (likely) per visit.

Which one seems easier to manage?


I expect a Star Lounge in the new A-pier at AMS. The pier will be both schengen/non schengen (dual level) so a mini-hub (56 Star-flights a day I believe) could be established . If it's placed in the schengen parts, intercontinental passengers could clear customs and still use the lounge. A dual lounge would be very weird.
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Aisak
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:15 pm

FlyRow wrote:
I expect a Star Lounge in the new A-pier at AMS.

Good expectations. If all (or most) StarAlliance carriers move there

Even if it could be a StarAlliance branded lounge, LH would be wiser to be running it. It should be the Star carrier having the most flights (and pax on EW-operated could access = more income/less cost)

FlyRow wrote:
If it's placed in the schengen parts, intercontinental passengers could clear customs and still use the lounge.

Customs clearance is for goods. People clear inmigration. (sorry for that ¬_¬)

And it's not that easy. Not every passport has the right to just enter the Schengen Area to use a lounge. And then queue again to leave the area. Not quite appealling for passengers connecting from two non-Schengen flights

FlyRow wrote:
A dual lounge would be very weird.

Not a dual lounge. Two separate lounges. If you are in a non-schengen area of the airport, technically you are not in Netherlands. It's not that easy.
Star carriers (as per their lounge look-up website) use 3 lounges. Schengen go to Servisair. SQ, ET and TK go to non-schengen Servisair and the rest use Aspire. Notice Servicair runs two lounges. Nothing weird about it.
 
smi0006
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:04 pm

lightmac wrote:
Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?
Which airline runs a lot of lounges abroad? I am aware of SAS in Chicago and Newark (I believe these are their only overseas lounges, but they run one at Paris and Helsinki each), SWISS in New York JFK and Chicago or Air Canada in Frankfurt etc.


Carriers also make a lot of money from lounges being offered to other carriers, partner and non-partner carriers, and also credit card, and sometimes pay per use beyond their own flights.

Alliance have rates agreed in USD set by alliance head office, there is an additional charge on top of this when the lounge is open outside the carriers own schedule- not overly profitable due to rates set to cover costs not revenue.

Non-partnered airlines eg Garuda use the QF lounge in MEL, are negotiated between carriers. And depend on laoinge quality and opening hours, credit cards can also do this - this can be quiet a profitable venture, especially in smaller ports with one or two lounges who have a near monopoly!

Carriers can sell adhoc day passes eg EY sells lounge access for AUD100 for 4hrs in SYD/MEl also profitable depending on markets.

Also don’t forget, airport rental space is charged for, if even available!! It can be highly expensive (price gouging many would say!!) this applies to lounges and airline offices, a key element of the equation. Along with local wages of catering staff, kitchen facilities, eta. Some legacy carriers have lounges from a bygone era, and probs have rental agreements to match so don’t want to give the space up- UA used to fly MEL-SYD-LAX, but had their own dedicated lounge in MEL for a small number of transit pax. But rent could have been negotiated decades earlier, not to mention redundancy costs of the staff!! Only closed couple years ago! Some airlines also use their own staff to ‘host’ others use handling agents- complex cost forumula!
 
OSL777FLYER
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:28 pm

lightmac wrote:
Lufthansa runs their own-branded lounges in cites like Dubai, Detroit or Boston even though they only have a single daily flight there (DTW). Popular European cities like Amsterdam or Barcelona do not have one, even though there are no fellow-Star-Alliance carriers based there. What is the logic behind it?
Which airline runs a lot of lounges abroad? I am aware of SAS in Chicago and Newark (I believe these are their only overseas lounges, but they run one at Paris and Helsinki each), SWISS in New York JFK and Chicago or Air Canada in Frankfurt etc.


You ask what the logic is behind this? From what I personally gather is that Lufthansa is a premium carrier. Their lounges are usually wonderfully stocked with proper foods and drinks. They want to keep their premium passengers happy.

E.g. At Chicago where LH does indeed fly a lot, a premium LH passenger would not be happy with United's lounges. Although they have improved slightly in the last few years, they are way behind the standards of LH's own lounges.

The number of premium passengers for a Lufthansa flight at e.g. AMS or CDG does not warrant their own lounge. ( I guess they have access to some sort of lounges there) However on long-haul flights, you may have as many as 100 premium passengers on a flight (LH 748 has 92 business seats alone), therefore the need for an own lounge.

I know that in OSL, my home airport, SAS caters to all the Star Alliance carriers and some others, while OSL airport runs its own lounge for KLM, AF Qatar etc.
 
LH658
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:11 pm

IAH has 2 BA lounge, AA lounge, UA lounge, AF lounge, KLM lounge. There use to be a LH Senator lounge, EK had plans of opening a huge lounge, but plans never pulled through due to lack of space in Terminal D at IAH.
 
VC10er
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Re: Which airline has the most lounges abroad?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:39 pm

I was in one of UA’s oldest “Red Carpet Club’s” at ORD last week- the main lounge upstairs at B gates. I recall the days of the giant red metal modern sculpture with the house plants all around it - Lol
I was really surprised at how well UA fixed up that space to be a United Club, I couldn’t have imagined that space looking so good. While not as good as many LH lounges when it comes to food, it wasn’t bad either, and the new design is beautiful (IMHO) - I was impressed! I would “assume” that LH (and others) would be fine now using it for their premium pax “IF” the UC is fixed up this well.
The one issue that ORD club always had, as well as the EWR club is the army latrine stench in the men’s room. You have to breathe with your mouth and get out as fast as possible. It looked great, love the airplane window mirrors- but it needs a POWERFUL air exchange system.
I’m fine with a Star Alliance Lounge. The new-ish one at GRU is very nice, very Brazilian (I don’t know and I’m very curious as to who pays the Capex & Opex for “alliance lounges” and who’s in charge of its design!!!)
It makes sense to me that all the Star Alliance carriers use this model of one giant nice lounge for everyone (where appropriate) and GRU is one airport that makes sense - I assume One World and Sky Team do the same, just have not been in one.
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