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aviator2000
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Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:11 pm

What longhaul routes do you guys see Qantas adding to their network in the near future?
 
vhebb
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 pm

New routes already on the cards at QF:

PER-CDG
PER-JNB
BNE or SYD-ORD
SYD-LHR
MEL-LHR
SYD-JFK
PER-AKL (Year round)

Other strong future possibilities:

SYD-ICN
MEL-BKK (Replacing JQ)
PER-NRT
PER-HKG
SYD-BOM
BNE-WLG
 
81819
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:53 pm

How about increased frequencies on existing routes?

This could be a useful link!

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... 5670350104
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:16 pm

PER-JNB is already served by SAA... does the route has enough demand for a second player? I think NOT.

QF owns the big part of the pie which is SYD-JNB, and I think that route serves greatly the Australia-SA market, although Idw If it’s daily though
 
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FA9295
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm

I think SYD-SEA/YVR has been mentioned before; I'm not sure if that's even realistic at all, though...
Last edited by FA9295 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Delta777Jet
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:20 pm

I’ve heard they are looking to fly to Frankfurt again ! Is that true ?
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
Bluebird191
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:48 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I think SYD-SEA/YVR has been mentioned before; I'm not sure if that's even realistic at all, though...


It is realistic enough for QF to already be flying SYD-YVR seasonally as QF75/76.
 
QF742
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 pm

I would throw in MEL/BNE - DFW as well.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 pm

Bluebird191 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I think SYD-SEA/YVR has been mentioned before; I'm not sure if that's even realistic at all, though...


It is realistic enough for QF to already be flying SYD-YVR seasonally as QF75/76.

Ah, thanks. My bad. :D
 
717atOGG
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 pm

QF has said in the past that they'll either announce BNE-ORD if the AA/QF JV gets approved, if not, then BNE-SEA is plan B, so there's that in the pipeline for future US routes.
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FA9295
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:05 pm

717atOGG wrote:
QF has said in the past that they'll either announce BNE-ORD if the AA/QF JV gets approved, if not, then BNE-SEA is plan B, so there's that in the pipeline for future US routes.

Interesting. Why would they go BNE-SEA instead of SYD-SEA. BNE-ORD I can understand because of distance/headwind issues, but the 787-9 should be able to fly SYD-SEA just fine...
 
717atOGG
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:13 pm

FA9295 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
QF has said in the past that they'll either announce BNE-ORD if the AA/QF JV gets approved, if not, then BNE-SEA is plan B, so there's that in the pipeline for future US routes.

Interesting. Why would they go BNE-SEA instead of SYD-SEA. BNE-ORD I can understand because of distance/headwind issues, but the 787-9 should be able to fly SYD-SEA just fine...

They're going to BNE because that's where the 787-9 will be based. For the most part QF's 789 fleet won't touch SYD, the fleet is split between BNE and MEL IIRC, so its longhaul routes, with the exception of SYD-HKG which is a W pattern, are all BNE and MEL based (BNE-LAX-JFK, MEL-PER-LHR, MEL-SFO, etc...).
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:28 pm

I can't find any reasons for QF to start BNE-SEA, is there any O&D traffic? I believe SYD makes more sense. If QF wants to start the second routes to US from BNE, they can try SFO or DFW.
 
x1234
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:29 pm

I believe BNE-DFW is next on the radar in addition to SYD-YVR. MEL-DFW is too far for even the 789 I was told so it will have to wait until the A350ULR or B777X arrive...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:52 pm

Just yesterday read bank analysis that QF must be careful longhaul due to its high cost base especially if it pursues potentially more ULH routes. Most potential longhaul markets have lower cost competitors (Asian carriers/ME3 etc) so too much capacity could endanger ability to earn premiums to cover its high cost.

The strong and less competitive domestic network is what keeps the enterprise running per analyst view.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:14 pm

x1234 wrote:
I believe BNE-DFW is next on the radar in addition to SYD-YVR. MEL-DFW is too far for even the 789 I was told so it will have to wait until the A350ULR or B777X arrive...


MEL-DFW is roughly the same distance as PER-LHR, a tiny bit shorter in fact. Should the QF/AA JV get approved I could see QF launching MEL-DFW with their 789, then further down BNE-DFW on either QF or AA metal.

QF almost launched seasonal PER-JNB with a 332 but abandoned plans after a spat with the operators of PER over which terminal the flight would use. If that gets resolved I can see PER-JNB starting.

Other than that I'd like to see both PER-AKL and SYD-YVR go year round. BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
EddieDude
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:19 pm

Delta777Jet wrote:
I’ve heard they are looking to fly to Frankfurt again ! Is that true ?

I think I may have read something about QF considering returning to Germany now that PER will play the role of European nonstop hub. I am not sure though if there are any bilateral agreement limitations as to the number of seats or frequencies per week.

I cannot remember either if it was mentioned that they will go back to FRA or TXL. If it were TXL, I have to wonder if the route would be more apt for a Jetstar 789 rather than mainline.
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thekorean
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:29 pm

I’ve pretty much given up on any hope QF goes back to Seoul.

Sad, their kangaroo logo is awesome.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:35 pm

717atOGG wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
QF has said in the past that they'll either announce BNE-ORD if the AA/QF JV gets approved, if not, then BNE-SEA is plan B, so there's that in the pipeline for future US routes.

Interesting. Why would they go BNE-SEA instead of SYD-SEA. BNE-ORD I can understand because of distance/headwind issues, but the 787-9 should be able to fly SYD-SEA just fine...

They're going to BNE because that's where the 787-9 will be based. For the most part QF's 789 fleet won't touch SYD, the fleet is split between BNE and MEL IIRC, so its longhaul routes, with the exception of SYD-HKG which is a W pattern, are all BNE and MEL based (BNE-LAX-JFK, MEL-PER-LHR, MEL-SFO, etc...).

You are making some gross assumptions there. While the first 8 B789 will be "BASED" as you say that does not mean they won't operate out of SYD, more than they currently do especially as the B744 fleet winds down :cry: & more B789s arrive.

I really doubt that the ORD flight, if it happens, will operate BNE-ORD-BNE, much more likely IMHO is BNE-SYD-ORD-BNE-SYD, with an aircraft swap in BNE on the return flight, more or less as the DFW flight operated until the A380 took over. As for plan B it will be SYD-SEA, again if it happens. Don't forget QF has a large domestic network it can use to swap aircraft around, including SYD - MEL one of the worlds busiest air routes.

If PER - CDG/FRA happen IMHO the flight will be SYD - PER- CDG or FRA [at least one of, if not both].

And then there is "Project Sunrise". The only reasonable assumption, again if it happens, is that the first route will be SYD - LHR, followed by MEL - LHR, then SYD-JFK. Where will the A350s/B778s be based? SYD seems a reasonable guess, which suggests that most of the routes requiring the PS aircraft will be out of SYD first, MEL second & BNE third.

Gemuser
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:01 am

The Project Sunrise birds would be perfect for nonstop PER-LAX too.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:22 am

LAXintl wrote:
Just yesterday read bank analysis that QF must be careful longhaul due to its high cost base especially if it pursues potentially more ULH routes. Most potential longhaul markets have lower cost competitors (Asian carriers/ME3 etc) so too much capacity could endanger ability to earn premiums to cover its high cost.

The strong and less competitive domestic network is what keeps the enterprise running per analyst view.


That analysis does not seem to realise that the new long haul routes being bandied about will have NO non stop competitors. In fact that is the whole point of the exercise, to avoid the competitors by going non stop. The only potential non stop competitors are BA & the US3, I doubt any of them are interested and if so some sort of cooperative agreement will be reached, especially with BA. The only other potential competitor from a geographical and traffic rights perspective is NZ and I really, really doubt they would be interested.

One stop competition is of course another matter, but again QF's plan seems to be to avoid it by pulling out of such routes and handing lower yield traffic over to JV partner EK, thereby gaining some revenue from such traffic that it knows it can't compete for on price. It is certainly possible that QF will operate NO transit stop international routes, for the first time in its 98 year history, within a few years.

I fully agree that QF "must be careful" with the new routes, but the one thing QF is is careful & conservative to the point of frustration of many Australians. Which is one reason I really wonder about PER-LHR when/if SYD/MEL - LHR go non stop. Well we will see what we see!

Gemuser
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:25 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
The Project Sunrise birds would be perfect for nonstop PER-LAX too.

If there is enough high yield traffic, is there?

Gemuser
 
kriskim
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:45 am

I would love to see these route out of MEL:

MEL - DFW
MEL - LHR (non-stop)
MEL - BKK* (replace JQ)
MEL - KIX
MEL - PVG*
MEL - BOM
MEL - EZE
MEL - JNB

If QF does replace JQ on MEL-BKK, maybe JQ can launch non-stop MEL-KIX. If QF ends up getting some A321NEOLR's for themselves, could we see pacific routes like SYD/MEL-PPT open up?
(*) Indicates route once served by QF.
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qantas747
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 am

Gemuser wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
The Project Sunrise birds would be perfect for nonstop PER-LAX too.

If there is enough high yield traffic, is there?

Gemuser


ADL is currently looking for their missing Nth American link. I could potentially see an ADL-LAX flight a couple times per week. Perhaps they start that in PER to provide the link with enough yield.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:08 am

qantas747 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
The Project Sunrise birds would be perfect for nonstop PER-LAX too.

If there is enough high yield traffic, is there?

Gemuser


ADL is currently looking for their missing Nth American link. I could potentially see an ADL-LAX flight a couple times per week. Perhaps they start that in PER to provide the link with enough yield.

Maybe they could alternate schedules with both ADL and PER nonstop. One would be 4x weekly, and the other would be 3x weekly.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:13 am

Some of these seem very out there.

Project Sunrise aircraft will be quite premium and will need to be assigned to routes with heavy premium demand. In other words, anything that is too long for the 787-9, but not premium-heavy, is unrealistic. That includes MEL-DFW and PER-LAX.

We can expect Project Sunrise aircraft to fly SYD-LHR, MEL-LHR, likely take over SYD-DFW from the too-large A380, and possibly try SYD-ORD at some point. That's 10-15 aircraft, and that's all I expect QF to order.

On the other hand, lots of routes within 787-9 range are fair game, and vhebb listed a few of them.
 
binayak
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:19 am

Qantas can try SYD-BOM non stop or MEL-BOM . Although their 789s seem to have too many premium seats than what's required for Indian market as India-Australia isn't as large as India-USA .
Still their a333s seem to have the perfect config for a route like SYD-BOM . Any chance of them doing so? Do they have any spare a333 for a 5 weekly SYD-BOM?
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EBT
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
I can't find any reasons for QF to start BNE-SEA, is there any O&D traffic? I believe SYD makes more sense. If QF wants to start the second routes to US from BNE, they can try SFO or DFW.


Alan Joyce hinted in August that SEA would be underpinned by feed from Alaska Airlines, and seems to be the backup option of the JV with AA doesn't get approved. If that does happen, my money would be on DFW, although QF management seem to have a fixation on ORD.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:51 am

I expect Qantas to absolutely dominate the Australia to Europe market within 10 years.

The 777-8 will allow direct routes from Melbourne and Sydney to multiple points in Europe. London, Paris and Berlin and probably Turkey and Greece. Also it allows deep into the US with New York direct.

European airlines probably wouldn't prioritise Australia with a dedicated sub fleet of low density ULH aircraft to be able to reach Australia non stop. From their euroean hub they only have Sydney and Melbourne in the 8000+nm, so two routes. However Qantas has a dozen European destinations which can easily justify a fleet of low density ultra long haul 777-8's.

Also the wild card is the smaller sized but long range version of the 797. With Qantas premium cabin which would be under 150 seats and with no extra cargo it will probably be able to push out beyond 5000nm. This is the distance from Melbourne to China, Melbourne to Japan or Melbourne to Honolulu. What this will allow is Adelaide, Canberra, Brisbane and Perth to have direct long haul flights instead of stopping in Sydney.

Qantas will then operate the larger short range version of the 797 in a domesric configuration for the Sydney/Melbourne route. I expect a big 797 order from Qantas and the 787 will only be valuable to fly to the LAX.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:54 am

The world's current longest route (the recently relaunched SQ22/21) is 9500 miles long.

If that wasn't long enough, SYD-JFK is roughly 9900 miles long, and SYD to LHR is a thousand miles longer than SQ22/21 at 10500 miles!

(Iceland which sits between JFK and LHR would actually be slightly shorter than SYD-LHR and SYD-CDG would be fairly equidistant to the London route, and the longest possible flight from SYD would be to a place called Ponta Delgada, West of Africa, but that'll never happen ;) . The Canary Islands are closer but a little more likely, and Lisbon and Barcelona/Madrid are closer but a bit more likely (but still very unlikely)).
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:21 am

RJMAZ wrote:
I expect Qantas to absolutely dominate the Australia to Europe market within 10 years.

The 777-8 will allow direct routes from Melbourne and Sydney to multiple points in Europe. London, Paris and Berlin and probably Turkey and Greece. Also it allows deep into the US with New York direct.

European airlines probably wouldn't prioritise Australia with a dedicated sub fleet of low density ULH aircraft to be able to reach Australia non stop. From their euroean hub they only have Sydney and Melbourne in the 8000+nm, so two routes. However Qantas has a dozen European destinations which can easily justify a fleet of low density ultra long haul 777-8's.


I really doubt that any European city has sufficient high yield traffic to Australia to justify ULH non stop service to Australia, with the possible exceptions of CDG & FRA. Given the current situation where QF has abandoned all own metal European service in favour of the EK JV, I doubt we will see QF back in Europe in the foreseeable future except for previously mentioned CDG/FRA.

IF IF IF CDG and/or FRA cannot justify the ULH non stops to the east coast there is the possibility of using PER as a scissors hub, which might work something like this:
3 B789, one each from SYD, MEL & BNE to PER exchanging passengers and adding PER traffic, 3 B789, one each to LHR, CDG & FRA. Obviously this will require PER airport to pull their finger out [or get clobbered under the external affairs power] to make it work.
The advantage of this plan is that; 1) Its cheaper than east coast non stop & presumably will not require as high a fare premium 2) it helps support the LHR service from PER which will suffer when the east coast non stops to LHR are introduced & it gives PER-CDG/FRA non stop service.

Gemuser
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:38 am

I do wonder if the QF Group would ever go long-haul ex-AKL again (I don't count AKL - PER as long-haul). They've recently done AKL - LAX (QF) and AKL - SIN (JQ), both on 330's, which ended before New Zealand's current tourism (and economic) boom. Due to Australia's geography, non-stop flights to JFK, GRU and MEX from Australia are not possible (for now), but AKL - JFK / GRU / MEX are - so those are three options, as tags from Australia. Others for QF may include AKL - LAX (to replace AA, if AA drops it), AKL - DFW (to beef up the JV, if USDOT approves it), or AKL - SIN (to connect to the QF Group's regrown hub there). For JQ, maybe AKL - HNL / LAX / LAS / DPS?

Cheers,

C.
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:57 am

717atOGG wrote:
QF has said in the past that they'll either announce BNE-ORD if the AA/QF JV gets approved, if not, then BNE-SEA is plan B, so there's that in the pipeline for future US routes.


I was just in Brisbane last week, nice city and lots of business and education institutions there. If BNE was to gain another flight to the US outside of LAX then ORD would make the most sense as it could capture SYD/BNE to ORD and midwest and eastcoast US traffic and is within range of the 789s. With NZ going to ORD next month QF to ORD seems viable from a competitive and alliance standpoint.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:57 am

LAXintl wrote:
Just yesterday read bank analysis that QF must be careful longhaul due to its high cost base especially if it pursues potentially more ULH routes. Most potential longhaul markets have lower cost competitors (Asian carriers/ME3 etc) so too much capacity could endanger ability to earn premiums to cover its high cost.

The strong and less competitive domestic network is what keeps the enterprise running per analyst view.


...and that analyst is a fool: they completely missed the point of Project Sunrise. QF know they cannot compete with the ME3/Asian carriers on price; they know they cannot lower their costs. But equally, QF being an end-of-line carrier, can offer something those carriers cannot: a direct service. Hence, Project Sunrise was born.

Project Sunrise isn't about competing with the ME3/Asian carriers on their terms. It is about competing by offering the marketplace something different, something the ME3/Asian carriers cannot offer. Time will tell if it will be successful, but the early indicators (PER/LHR) are strong.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
a7ala
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 am

vhqpa wrote:
BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.


Is there scope to link a BNE-WLG service with the new B787 base in BNE to provide connectivity QF doesnt currently provide on the 2 x daily SYD-WLG or daily MEL-WLG?
 
tullamarine
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:36 am

a7ala wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.


Is there scope to link a BNE-WLG service with the new B787 base in BNE to provide connectivity QF doesnt currently provide on the 2 x daily SYD-WLG or daily MEL-WLG?


Were BNE-WLG to come into being, it would only be a 737.
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vhqpa
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:40 am

a7ala wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.


Is there scope to link a BNE-WLG service with the new B787 base in BNE to provide connectivity QF doesnt currently provide on the 2 x daily SYD-WLG or daily MEL-WLG?


Definitely not a 787. If it happens it will be a 73H or JQ 320. But then again it's not a long haul so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I remember about maybe 12 years ago QF Jetconnect flew it with a 733. Although with VA and NZ now serving the route independently I'm not sure if there's much room for QF too.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
aviationaware
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:07 am

Delta777Jet wrote:
I’ve heard they are looking to fly to Frankfurt again ! Is that true ?


It's certainly a possibility, but only if CDG works out well. We will have to wait and see.
 
TC957
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:12 am

Why does QF fly to so few major Asian cities ? KUL, TPE and ICN for example have no QF service.
 
a7ala
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:28 am

vhqpa wrote:
a7ala wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.


Is there scope to link a BNE-WLG service with the new B787 base in BNE to provide connectivity QF doesnt currently provide on the 2 x daily SYD-WLG or daily MEL-WLG?


Definitely not a 787. If it happens it will be a 73H or JQ 320. But then again it's not a long haul so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I remember about maybe 12 years ago QF Jetconnect flew it with a 733. Although with VA and NZ now serving the route independently I'm not sure if there's much room for QF too.


Agree wasnt thinking a b787 and thought it would be the b738. What I meant was whether having the b787 base in bne might strengthen the case for wlg given it might provide connections that don't work syd or Mel.

It does seem to be the obvious gap in qf's tasman network and while you are right there are two airlines soon, actually the capacity as I understand it will be similar (va reducing 5 and nz adding 5). And if anything i would have thought it would be easier for qf to relaunch against two weaker competitors rather than the previous va double daily offered by va (and nz through the alliance)
 
qantas747
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:37 am

binayak wrote:
Qantas can try SYD-BOM non stop or MEL-BOM . Although their 789s seem to have too many premium seats than what's required for Indian market as India-Australia isn't as large as India-USA .
Still their a333s seem to have the perfect config for a route like SYD-BOM . Any chance of them doing so? Do they have any spare a333 for a 5 weekly SYD-BOM?


I have an inkling that once all the conversions of the A332s to the long haul setup are complete we will see a direct service to India. 27J/228Y would seem to be a good configuration to balance yield on this route and considering 9W have had financial troubles this could come to fruition very soon. Especially if its timed to connect with NZ flights QF will have some good feed.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:43 am

Gemuser wrote:
I really doubt that any European city has sufficient high yield traffic to Australia to justify ULH non stop service to Australia, with the possible exceptions of CDG & FRA. Given the current situation where QF has abandoned all own metal European service in favour of the EK JV, I doubt we will see QF back in Europe in the foreseeable future except for previously mentioned CDG/FRA.

I strongly disagree. It is very difficult to determine the traffic between European cities and Australia with multiple one stop options available.

There are no direct routes yet but the success of perth to london shows the massive appetite for direct flights. We have seen time and time again that direct flights have been successful even with premium prices. Australians will pay a premium to more than cover the extra fuel costs.

There would be a lot of high yield traffic currently going from Australia on the ME3 and then going to multiple destinations on their european network.

The 777-8 might have as few as 250 seats. That is pretty easy to fill. Flights can ramp up from a few flights per week.

Another benefit of having flights to Turkey for example is the 777-8 would have room for extra cargo. The 777-8 to London would likely have blocked seats on a day with bad weather. The passenger bags could go via Turkey allowing the London direct flights to leave full year round.
 
qantas747
Posts: 378
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:09 am

I wonder what the A380 network will look like with project sunrise aircraft coming online and the introduction of more longhaul 789 routes. SYD-DFW seems to be a prime candidate for change (ie switch to a daily 789 SYD-DFW and a MEL-DFW daily) based on comments from AJ that its cheaper to operate 2 789s as opposed to 1 388 .

These are what I consider 'safe' 388 routes with project sunrise.
SYD-LAX daily
MEL-LAX daily
SYD-SIN-LHR daily
SYD-HKG daily (or other seasonal Asia upgrades)
That takes up only 8 frames, which coincidentally is the same amount QF still have on order and how many they sent to DXB for repaint. Perhaps with the upcoming refurbs they will only do 8 and retire 4 once project sunrise is operational

Where else would these birds go? Does anyone have insight on the longer term 388 plan?
Perhaps BNELAX but this seemingly doesnt have the F demand.
 
SpoonNZ
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:22 am

Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:10 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Another benefit of having flights to Turkey for example is the 777-8 would have room for extra cargo. The 777-8 to London would likely have blocked seats on a day with bad weather. The passenger bags could go via Turkey allowing the London direct flights to leave full year round.

Apart from that being a massive security no-no, I’m not quite sure what the point would be? You’d need to wait 2 hours at LHR for your bag on arrival at which point you might as well have taken the cheaper connecting flight. And even if it did make sense, sending the bags through SIN or something would be a better option.
 
qantas747
Posts: 378
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:51 pm

Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:19 am

vhqpa wrote:
a7ala wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
BNE-WLG nonstop would be good too.


Is there scope to link a BNE-WLG service with the new B787 base in BNE to provide connectivity QF doesnt currently provide on the 2 x daily SYD-WLG or daily MEL-WLG?


Definitely not a 787. If it happens it will be a 73H or JQ 320. But then again it's not a long haul so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I remember about maybe 12 years ago QF Jetconnect flew it with a 733. Although with VA and NZ now serving the route independently I'm not sure if there's much room for QF too.


Routes like BNE-WLG, ADL-AKL, CBR-AKL, CNS/TSV - SIN are ones which I think would suit an A220-300, not to mention the domestic capability for this size aircraft. Its a bit out there I know, but could really grow smaller secondary markets while maintaining a premium
 
AsiaTravel
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:20 am

qantas747 wrote:
That takes up only 8 frames, which coincidentally is the same amount QF still have on order and how many they sent to DXB for repaint. Perhaps with the upcoming refurbs they will only do 8 and retire 4 once project sunrise is operational.


The contract with Airbus is for 12 frames to be refurb, so they might keep them around for a while.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:36 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
I really doubt that any European city has sufficient high yield traffic to Australia to justify ULH non stop service to Australia, with the possible exceptions of CDG & FRA. Given the current situation where QF has abandoned all own metal European service in favour of the EK JV, I doubt we will see QF back in Europe in the foreseeable future except for previously mentioned CDG/FRA.


[quote=RJMAZ] There are no direct routes yet but the success of perth to london shows the massive appetite for direct flights. We have seen time and time again that direct flights have been successful even with premium prices. Australians will pay a premium to more than cover the extra fuel costs.


There have been direct routes between Australia & Europe since 1934!!! Currently only operated by QF & BA, previously included KL, LH, UT & AF and others, what is new is NON STOP flights. [Please do not confuse the industry standard definitions, it makes your pots more difficult to read]
While I agree us Australians will pay a premium the size of it is not infinite, even for those paying premium fares.

[quote=RJMAZ]There would be a lot of high yield traffic currently going from Australia on the ME3 and then going to multiple destinations on their european network. [/quote]

Source? Somehow I think QF knows better. Only CDG & FRA have been talked about.
While there is undoubtedly some high yield traffic between various European cities and various Australian cities I see no evidence that it is of sufficient size to support a ULH service. Traffic not willing to pay a high enough fare or where the volume does not justify a full plane will continue to fly one stop, hopefully on EK within the JV.

[qupte=RJMAZ] Another benefit of having flights to Turkey for example is the 777-8 would have room for extra cargo. The 777-8 to London would likely have blocked seats on a day with bad weather. The passenger bags could go via Turkey allowing the London direct flights to leave full year round.[/quote]

I strongly doubt that there is sufficient traffic to Turkey to support a service to Europe by QF, its never worked in the past. What MAYBE reasonable is an IST terminator by TK or QF to feed into TKs very large European network. The Project Sunrise aircraft may just make SYD/MEL - IST viable.

I also wouldn't assume that the B778 will be the Project Sunrise aircraft, the A350-1000ULH would be a strong contender. It'll end of next year, at the earliest before we know which one was selected.

Gemuser
 
qf002
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:55 pm

717atOGG wrote:
They're going to BNE because that's where the 787-9 will be based.


SYD base will open in mid-2019.

TC957 wrote:
Why does QF fly to so few major Asian cities ? KUL, TPE and ICN for example have no QF service.


They fly to SIN, CGK, DPS, BKK, MNL, HKG, PVG, PEK, NRT, HND and KIX - there are gaps but it's not a bad little network. Plus SGN, HKT and CGO on JQ.

QF's primary focus is on outbound traffic whereas markets like Malaysia, Taiwan and Korea (and India for that matter) are more heavily skewed towards visitors coming into Australia. That said, I do think SYD-ICN is a glaring gap and should be filled - both KE and OZ are flying A380s to SYD again this summer.

qantas747 wrote:
I have an inkling that once all the conversions of the A332s to the long haul setup are complete we will see a direct service to India. 27J/228Y would seem to be a good configuration to balance yield on this route and considering 9W have had financial troubles this could come to fruition very soon. Especially if its timed to connect with NZ flights QF will have some good feed.


If they go back to India then it will be with a two class 789 after 2021. It's the only plane with half a chance of making the flight work, plus they have better places to send their limited A330 fleet right now.
 
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BawliBooch
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:44 am

Instead of SYD-BOM/DEL, I think QF should consider SYD-BLR with an extension to a European city. Around 9500kms - perhaps their A330-300 might be able to do the route?
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
nadavatar64
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: Qantas future longhaul routes

Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:02 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
PER-JNB is already served by SAA... does the route has enough demand for a second player? I think NOT.

QF owns the big part of the pie which is SYD-JNB, and I think that route serves greatly the Australia-SA market, although Idw If it’s daily though


Im not sure SYD is the big part of the pie, I think its JNB. most of the south-african australians live in Perth region IIRC.
on that topic, I think MEL-JNB could work pretty easily.

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