celestar
Topic Author
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:37 am

Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:20 am

Two of my most patronized airlines, BR and CX, both have the business class seat angled or slanted. It was quite a fanfare when they were introduced, one of the selling point was privacy and flat-bed seating.
Well, those points are well taken, I am beginning to feel that its time may be limited given more airlines are adopting front facing seats which still offer flat-bed style seating. I was on one of the BR flight back from Toronto to Taipei and when I stretched it out, because it is angled, one of my fleet actually did not get the benefit of the that full length on lie-flat mode. In addition, I was not able to have a short conversation with my colleagues unless we both angled forward to continue the discussion. I wonder how much benefits these angled business class seating offered.
I wish both BR and CX would consider to change them. BR on their 787 certainly had taken heed on this I think.
What are the thoughts here?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2123
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 am

Reverse herringbone is not out of date; herringbone as used by NZ, VS etc definitely is.

The advantage of reverse herringbone is that it adds privacy. It also means space can be slightly better used. With every seat having direct aisle access, you can only put 4 seats across a wide body. This means an A330 and 777 both have the same 4 across capability despite the 777 being 71 cms wider. With a front facing set-up all this means is the seat side tables and the aisles become wider than they need to be. By using the extra width, the angle to which the reverse herringbone can be offset from centre is increased meaning it is possible to fit more seats in a given space without affecting passenger comfort.

The only issue as you move off-centre is how the seat belt works. Airlines such as VA have addressed this by incorporating an airbag in the lap-sash belt.
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GSPSPOT
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:34 am

I think it all boils down to the price point. These seats won't command the premium that true lie flat seats do but they are miles ahead of recliners (if they still exist),
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zkncj
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:19 am

tullamarine wrote:
Reverse herringbone is not out of date; herringbone as used by NZ, VS etc definitely is.
.


Agreed the NZ/VS is very outdated, probably by 5 years now. They both had to narrow the design to fit into the 789, which definitely made an average seat worse.

NZ is in the process of planning an new J hard product, so most likely VS will follow suit. Rumour is NZ is going so an suite based seat.

Back in 2004 when NZ Introduced (think VS was an year earlier?) at the time it was an pretty good product for the time period.
 
tris06
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 12:36 am

Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:27 am

Slanted business class is fine for up to 5-6HR. Many airlines are Still introducing angled seating instead of front facing. The only issue is how much the airline wantsvto squeeze in the passengers. CX first generation of lie flat angled was called coffin class. So if the width is enough there is nothing wrong with that type of seating.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:26 pm

Angled is inferior to lie-flat. Lie-Flat with aisle access is better still. Angled is ~ten years out of date on TPAC and TATL flying.
 
aklrno
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Angled is inferior to lie-flat. Lie-Flat with aisle access is better still. Angled is ~ten years out of date on TPAC and TATL flying.

I don't understand this post. On NZ angled is both lie-flat and aisle access.

I really like the NZ angled seat because of the aisle access. I mostly fly alone so if I am in a configuration where I am either in the window seat I have no aisle access (absolutely required on a 12 hour flight) or I am next to someone who needs to climb over me. Most lie-flats I've been in that are not angled have the aisle access problem. I think UA's new polaris seats don't have the problem, but I'm not sure.

What airlines can give everyone aisle access in business/first without angling the seats or climbing over someone? Perhaps I happily tolerate the NZ seat because I am small. In any case I get a great nights sleep and can use the toilet when i nee to. A 71 year old male needs to get out during the night!
 
IADCA
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Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:01 pm

aklrno wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Angled is inferior to lie-flat. Lie-Flat with aisle access is better still. Angled is ~ten years out of date on TPAC and TATL flying.

I don't understand this post. On NZ angled is both lie-flat and aisle access.

I really like the NZ angled seat because of the aisle access. I mostly fly alone so if I am in a configuration where I am either in the window seat I have no aisle access (absolutely required on a 12 hour flight) or I am next to someone who needs to climb over me. Most lie-flats I've been in that are not angled have the aisle access problem. I think UA's new polaris seats don't have the problem, but I'm not sure.

What airlines can give everyone aisle access in business/first without angling the seats or climbing over someone? Perhaps I happily tolerate the NZ seat because I am small. In any case I get a great nights sleep and can use the toilet when i nee to. A 71 year old male needs to get out during the night!


Polaris has direct aisle access from every seat.
 
EChid
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:07 am

Okay, there's a lot of confusion in this thread because people are mixing terminology. In the industry, "angled" business seats refer to seats that recline but don't fully go flat, regardless of their access to aisle. It's about their ability to go flat in the horizontal dimension. The original author is taking issue with diagonally mounted seating that is lie flat, but angle across the aircraft like reverse or non-reverse herringbone. I think we can all agree that angled flat seating is outdated.

And to answer your question. Every design has good and bad points. Seats that don't use the herringbone in some way either don't permit aisle acceas, or privacy, or they do permit aisle access but provide less space for your feet and more inequity based on seating position (see Turkish, Lufthansa, Asiana). The reverse herringbone offer consistancy throughout the cabin and better use of space for most while sometimes making some feel more constrained than private, while the herringbones were good, but are now and outdated choice. Overall, for business travelers, privacy and access is God. So the reverse herringbones are a very strong option.
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spacecadet
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:30 am

EChid wrote:
Seats that don't use the herringbone in some way either don't permit aisle acceas, or privacy, or they do permit aisle access but provide less space for your feet and more inequity based on seating position (see Turkish, Lufthansa, Asiana).


Staggered seating has none of these disadvantages.

The reverse herringbone offer consistancy throughout the cabin and better use of space for most while sometimes making some feel more constrained than private, while the herringbones were good, but are now and outdated choice. Overall, for business travelers, privacy and access is God. So the reverse herringbones are a very strong option.


Reverse herringbone does not offer privacy, nor does it guarantee aisle access. See China Airlines' 747-8 (and maybe other planes) for an extreme example of this. You'd better be traveling with someone you know...
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horizon360
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:39 am

spacecadet wrote:
Reverse herringbone does not offer privacy, nor does it guarantee aisle access. See China Airlines' 747-8 (and maybe other planes) for an extreme example of this. You'd better be traveling with someone you know...


I think you might be confusing different seating products. China Airlines does not use a reverse herringbone hard product on their 747 (and they don't use a 747-8, it's the older 747-400). For a good example of a reverse herringbone product, look at any of Cathay Pacific's long-haul fleet.

I personally feel the reverse herringbone seat to be among the best of the business class seats currently available. It's comfortable and it does guarantee aisle access and a decent level of privacy.
 
cofannyc
Posts: 267
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:03 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Reverse herringbone does not offer privacy, nor does it guarantee aisle access. See China Airlines' 747-8 (and maybe other planes) for an extreme example of this. You'd better be traveling with someone you know...


Assuming you mean Air China not China Airlines...

In my experience, the Air China 748 business class isn't reverse herringbone, but a slightly offset 2-2-2 config. I honestly could barely notice the angle to the aircraft itself, which cannot be said of reverse herringbone, nor does their config allow the "density" that a reverse herringbone config allows. That being said, yes, Air China's seats are neither private nor with 100% direct aisle access.
 
hoons90
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:07 pm

I've tried herringbone (Air Canada 767), reverse herringbone (Cathay Pacific A333, 77W) and staggered (Swiss A333), and I prefer the reverse herringbone layout as I find that it offers more privacy and more room for one's feet.

I recently flew on a Swiss A330 with the staggered layout. If you are not lucky enough to score one of the seats closer to the window, or one of the "throne" seats, you'll find that you are not offered a lot of privacy and aisle traffic even bumps into you occasionally. Swiss blocked off all the good seats and reserved them for HON Circle/Senators unless if you wanted to fork over 149 CHF.
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EChid
Posts: 544
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:25 am

spacecadet wrote:
EChid wrote:
Seats that don't use the herringbone in some way either don't permit aisle access, or privacy, or they do permit aisle access but provide less space for your feet and more inequity based on seating position (see Turkish, Lufthansa, Asiana).


Staggered seating has none of these disadvantages.


Could you give me an example of staggered seating? Are you thinking Asiana/ANA style? Because it absolutely does suffer from what I mentioned, most significantly from inequality in seating...i.e., one seat is near the window and offers tremendous privacy, the other is directly beside the aisle and results in continuous bumps. Two middle seats are directly beside each other, two are far away (but in the aisle). The seats at bulkheads have tonnes of foot space, the other seats do not. It's great for some, poor for others - thus the benefits of revere herringbone.

spacecadet wrote:
The reverse herringbone offer consistancy throughout the cabin and better use of space for most while sometimes making some feel more constrained than private, while the herringbones were good, but are now and outdated choice. Overall, for business travelers, privacy and access is God. So the reverse herringbones are a very strong option.


Reverse herringbone does not offer privacy, nor does it guarantee aisle access. See China Airlines' 747-8 (and maybe other planes) for an extreme example of this. You'd better be traveling with someone you know...


Air China's 748s, as was mentioned, don't have reverse herringbone...in fact only Air China's most recent A350s (freshly delivered) have it. Otherwise, they have the 2-2-2 layout that is inferior to both staggered, herringbone, and reverse herringbone. Aside from Korean/JAL's very generous business layout and Qatar's custom Q-Suite, reverse herringbone is hard to beat in privacy and aisle access for all, even if it has its shortcomings.
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aerorobnz
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Re: Angled Business Class Seat - are they outdated?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 am

The NZ style certainly is dated and not great, it always reminds me of a dorm room I prefer the TG A350 style. In saying that the gap is not wide to squeeze into so is not ideal for fat people.

Forward seats 1-2-1 seems to offer the best options for most people and keeps them all in the same direction.
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