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ConcordesCat5
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'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:13 am

Hello! Newbie here, I'm writing a story centered around a Beechcraft Bonanza of the 35 series, I'm aware that the V-tails can be dangerous to inexperienced pilots. What I'd like to know is what other planes can become 'short-tempered' towards inexperienced pilots that are in the single piston engine category. Please note that I have only flown one type of plane and it was a Cessna 150 (I flew it for a short while and it was a fair while ago that I flew it)
Thanks, ConcordesCat5
 
bob75013
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:14 pm

The Mooney m20j and m20k have been known to be pretty short tempered.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2014/03/wha ... ilots-lot/
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:29 pm

Hello ConcordesCat5, welcome aboard!

You need to immediately procure for yourself a copy of Arthur Hailey's novel "Airport", the full version. In it, there is a flashback story that occurred in one of the character's past involving a Beechcraft Bonanza that was referred to as "the fork-tailed doctor-killer", in reference to doctors getting their pilots license, learning to fly one of these, each one thinking, "I'm lord and master of the universe!" before spiraling out of control.
 
CanesFan
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:36 pm

The Piper PA-46 Malibu had a reputation for being a doctor-killer as well.
 
bradyj23
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:43 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello ConcordesCat5, welcome aboard!

You need to immediately procure for yourself a copy of Arthur Hailey's novel "Airport", the full version. In it, there is a flashback story that occurred in one of the character's past involving a Beechcraft Bonanza that was referred to as "the fork-tailed doctor-killer", in reference to doctors getting their pilots license, learning to fly one of these, each one thinking, "I'm lord and master of the universe!" before spiraling out of control.


I thought that it earned the nickname "Doctor Killer" because of doctors flying into IFR when they weren't trained on instruments. Not because there was a problem with the plane. I could be mistaken.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:49 pm

bradyj23 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello ConcordesCat5, welcome aboard!

You need to immediately procure for yourself a copy of Arthur Hailey's novel "Airport", the full version. In it, there is a flashback story that occurred in one of the character's past involving a Beechcraft Bonanza that was referred to as "the fork-tailed doctor-killer", in reference to doctors getting their pilots license, learning to fly one of these, each one thinking, "I'm lord and master of the universe!" before spiraling out of control.


I thought that it earned the nickname "Doctor Killer" because of doctors flying into IFR when they weren't trained on instruments. Not because there was a problem with the plane. I could be mistaken.


It's a powerful plane for an inexperienced pilot. Flying VFR into IMC will kill anyone.

The "Doctor Killer" moniker comes from the fact it's a (relatively) expensive airplane that doctor-types can afford, and powerful/finicky enough that they're dangerous for people who don't have more experience.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
posnhold
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:57 pm

I've flown many small and large a/c by many different manufacturers that had V-tails, straight tails, cruciform tails, T-tails, elevators with and without THS (trimable horizontal stabs), and stabilators. I've never flown elevons. An a/c that comes to mind for being challenging and rewarding (in the flare only) was the Cessna 177 Cardinal. Cessna corrected the issue which did mitigate pitch sensitivity and make it a better a/c.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
bradyj23 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello ConcordesCat5, welcome aboard!

You need to immediately procure for yourself a copy of Arthur Hailey's novel "Airport", the full version. In it, there is a flashback story that occurred in one of the character's past involving a Beechcraft Bonanza that was referred to as "the fork-tailed doctor-killer", in reference to doctors getting their pilots license, learning to fly one of these, each one thinking, "I'm lord and master of the universe!" before spiraling out of control.


I thought that it earned the nickname "Doctor Killer" because of doctors flying into IFR when they weren't trained on instruments. Not because there was a problem with the plane. I could be mistaken.


It's a powerful plane for an inexperienced pilot. Flying VFR into IMC will kill anyone.

The "Doctor Killer" moniker comes from the fact it's a (relatively) expensive airplane that doctor-types can afford, and powerful/finicky enough that they're dangerous for people who don't have more experience.


Thank you for putting into words what I was trying to imply. I was spending so much time trying to remember which character this was (Mel Bakersfeld, perhaps?) that I didn't put enough detail in.

And the scenario you described is exactly what happened in the book - involving a midair collision.
 
deltadudejg
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:55 pm

I know you mentioned single engine types but MU-2 are another. As mentioned above I've heard the older Mooneys are tough planes.
Aviation Enthusiast working in Airport Operations
 
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Acey559
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:29 pm

I’ve heard the Lancair series aircraft can be extremely dangerous if not flown properly. It’s an extremely fast airplane with a tiny wing and if you get slow on approach (or anytime, really) it will stall and is very difficult to recover. I’ve never personally flown one, but I’ve heard multiple people mention the finicky nature of them. But if flown properly, they’re a monster and incredibly fast and efficient.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
highflier92660
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:01 pm

The MU-2 has a somewhat well-deserved reputation as a "pilot killer" as does any high-performance aircraft if the pilot doesn't maintain proficiency and recurrent training. But the original Cessna Citation, as benign, docile and easy-to-fly as it was, could also be a pilot killer at the hands of a low-time and minimally-trained individual like New York Yankees catcher Thurman Munson. Any plane can be a short-tempered plane if the pilot is "behind the aircraft."
 
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SEPilot
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:07 pm

The V-tailed Bonanza suffered from a design defect that caused a lot of crashes. When it was originally designed it was four passenger, but Beech later lengthened it to carry six. When they did that certain conditions would cause flutter on the ruddervators, causing them to break off and rendering the plane uncontrollable. This was fixed by attaching brackets on the leading edge of the ruddervators which kept the flutter from starting. Even though this happened and was fixed decades ago it has still left a taint on the V-tail.

Every plane design is a compromise, and every one has its weaknesses. The Cessnas and Pipers that most of us learned to fly on were docile, very forgiving designs. That came at a price, and that price was low performance. The more performance you have, the less forgiveness you have for errors (and the faster things happen). Most private pilots who crash do so for one of two reasons; either overestimating their abilities to handle their aircrafts’ performance or their ability to handle the weather, or both.

But even docile planes can have their quirks. I co-owned a 1962 Cessna 182 for 10 years, which is in most respects a very docile, forgiving plane, although it does fall into the “high performance” category. It has a nasty habit that if you try and land with only front seat occupants (including solo) and 40 degrees of flaps and bounce, the elevators have insufficient authority to keep it from coming down on the nosewheel, causing serious damage to the firewall. Cessna later fixed this by limiting the flap travel to 30 degrees. So my partner and I decreed that only 30 degrees of flaps should be used on our plane. The point is that every plane has its quirks, and it is up to the pilot to know the ones for his particular aircraft. Mooney’s have been mentioned; their notable quirk is that you need to cross the runway threshold at exactly 80 knots; any faster and you will float halfway down the runway with a big chance of overrunning it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
cschleic
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:47 pm

Supposedly Piper Tomahawks are difficult, hence the name Tramahawk. If you get into a spin, it's likely you won't get out of it. But I trained to fly in one, thoroughly enjoyed it, but didn't know any difference since it was the first plane I flew.
 
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ConcordesCat5
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:53 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello ConcordesCat5, welcome aboard!

You need to immediately procure for yourself a copy of Arthur Hailey's novel "Airport", the full version. In it, there is a flashback story that occurred in one of the character's past involving a Beechcraft Bonanza that was referred to as "the fork-tailed doctor-killer", in reference to doctors getting their pilots license, learning to fly one of these, each one thinking, "I'm lord and master of the universe!" before spiraling out of control.


Oh wow! Thank you everyone! Sorry about the late reply. PSAatSAN4Ever I'll take a look into the book "Airport" Thank you again! :D
 
Max Q
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:11 pm

cschleic wrote:
Supposedly Piper Tomahawks are difficult, hence the name Tramahawk. If you get into a spin, it's likely you won't get out of it. But I trained to fly in one, thoroughly enjoyed it, but didn't know any difference since it was the first plane I flew.



In another life I accumulated over 1000 hours instructing on the PA38 Tomahawk


Many more than I would have wanted but times were tough


I did spins with every student, it would be
irresponsible not to show student pilots
everything an aircraft can do to you


After all if you’ve never seen and trained for it before it is startling and your chances of recovering successfuly are minimal


The Tomahawk had a very abrupt entry into the spin, often inverting at first then winding up rapidly


Full opposite rudder and forward stick made for a quick recovery to a steep nose down attitude, just be careful not to hold the rudder too long or you’ll start spinning the other way


A PA38 in the UK did have a tail separation with fatal results during spin training and the tail was reinforced as a result, it did shake a lot at the stall / spin entry even after that mod


It always stayed together for me however
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
evank516
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Re: 'Short-tempered' Planes

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:24 pm

bob75013 wrote:
The Mooney m20j and m20k have been known to be pretty short tempered.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2014/03/wha ... ilots-lot/


Whatever you do, don't land a Mooney M20J at this airport and try to leave with full fuel tanks and 3 souls on board: https://www.airnav.com/airport/70N

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