sking1111
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Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:58 pm

I just read an article stating that Frontier Airlines has started requesting passengers to tip their flight attendants. The passenger is given a hand held
device that has buttons for certain percentages of gratuity already listed for bill or custom amount. It also has a button saying I prefer not leave a gratuity.
How do you feel about this? If this catches on other budget airlines will probably do the same. We tip wait staff, bartenders, just about everybody in a
hotel so why not flight attendants?
What are your thoughts.
 
Some1Somewhere
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:02 pm

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/fron ... ?r=US&IR=T

It appears this is only when being upsold stuff (drinks, food) onboard anyway - they are not just wandering around the cabin with it.

I think not much more ridiculous than tipping everyone else in the US, but probably an excuse to pay FAs less.
 
sking1111
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:08 pm

I can totally understand up sold items, but if i'm not mistaken, everything is charged for on a Frontier flight. Nothing is free anymore. So it seems to reason, that all passengers who pay for their items get to see the gratuity request.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:13 pm

I hope they don't use this as an excuse to pay F/As less. Can you imagine the attitude after a flight full of cheapskates? If that happened, I would run to another job.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Frontier is always looking for ways to pay their employees less. If they could outsource flight attendants they would
 
dcajet
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:22 pm

sking1111 wrote:
I just read an article stating that Frontier Airlines has started requesting passengers to tip their flight attendants. The passenger is given a hand held
device that has buttons for certain percentages of gratuity already listed for bill or custom amount. It also has a button saying I prefer not leave a gratuity.
How do you feel about this? If this catches on other budget airlines will probably do the same. We tip wait staff, bartenders, just about everybody in a
hotel so why not flight attendants?
What are your thoughts.


It is only when paying for a purchase on board. If it helps increase the bottom line for the F/As, why not, in the context of these budget airlines, where salaries are not exactly generous? I can't imagine tipping on Lufthansa or Air New Zealand but perhaps time will prove me wrong.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:47 pm

Maybe they should pay a living wage instead of expecting the customer to subsidize their employees' pay.
 
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LX015
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:58 pm

So, to a degree it weakens the argument that flight attendants are there for passengers’ safety and not as wait staff. One doesn’t tip a police officer or TSA agent or doctor...
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:07 pm

Isn’t Frontier trying to get through new contract negotiations with their flight attendants right now? Why would they throw a wrench into that before a vote? Are they trying to gauge market reaction to this to see if it’s successful so they can negotiate a lower wage?
 
JayWings
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:12 pm

LX015 wrote:
So, to a degree it weakens the argument that flight attendants are there for passengers’ safety and not as wait staff. One doesn’t tip a police officer or TSA agent or doctor...


But I can’t tell you the last time I was served a drink or a sandwich by a police officer. I also couldn’t recall when a waiter was expected to be the first to respond to a medical emergency. I can’t imagine a first responder being asked to hold and entertain a baby for a stressed out parent. And who would ask a baby sitter to troubleshoot the WiFi or explain why the entertainment system won’t work?

Flight attendants are expected to juggle numerous responsibilities and fill many different roles. That shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not tip them. I think good flight attendants are some of the most deserving and often least rewarded customer service professionals around. Just my 2 cents.
 
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kczombie
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:14 pm

I have been tipping flight attendants for years.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:32 pm

LX015 wrote:
So, to a degree it weakens the argument that flight attendants are there for passengers’ safety and not as wait staff. One doesn’t tip a police officer or TSA agent or doctor...

"Tipping" police officers or TSA agents would be considered bribery.

JayWings wrote:
But I can’t tell you the last time I was served a drink or a sandwich by a police officer. I also couldn’t recall
Flight attendants are expected to juggle numerous responsibilities and fill many different roles. That shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not tip them. I think good flight attendants are some of the most deserving and often least rewarded customer service professionals around. Just my 2 cents.


And just when would passengers have time to tip flight attendants? When the plane is preparing to land? When they are deboarding the plane? I sure wouldn't be inclined to tip if the slowdown in deboarding made me likely to miss my connection. I've got enough to concentrate on when deboarding: making sure I got everything, making sure my wallet and passport are secured on my person, herding all the other people I am flying with. I often don't have a free hand while negotiating an aisle with a roll aboard bag and a personal item.
Last edited by flyingclrs727 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:36 pm

So US.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Frontier Airlines is, by FAR, the lowest paying major airline in the USA. This sounds like some scheme to get customers to pay Frontier for their own Flight Attendants. Its scandalous how far behind Frontier is in average pay, and now they are turning them into beggars to continue saving on labor costs. Sad
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:00 pm

sking1111 wrote:
How do you feel about this?


Institutionalized begging.
 
RamblinMan
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:02 pm

Your job can be part safety and part service, I promise it works just fine. As a whitewater river guide, I consider my primary purpose to be for safety. My level of first aid training exceeds that of the average flight attendant. I still receive and appreciate tips, and on average tips make up about 25% of my income from that job. The world keeps on spinning. I see no problem with this, nor is it unprecedented. Back when you paid cash for alcohol onboard, tipping the FA a buck or two was quite commonplace.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:17 pm

I'm surprised the FA unions haven't picked up on this idea before. If they can get people tipping like a restaurant or bar there is good money to be made.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:39 pm

It's an element of U.S. culture to tip service employees (wait staff, a hairdresser) but not skilled trades nor professionals (auto mechanic, doctors). FAs can't have it both ways.

MalevTU134 wrote:
So US.


In much of Western Europe the bill just gets marked up (service compris) and the business owner pockets it, not the service employee.

cranberrysaus wrote:
Maybe they should pay a living wage instead of expecting the customer to subsidize their employees' pay.


These aren't Soviet gulags. Nobody is forcing FAs to work for Frontier.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
It's an element of U.S. culture to tip service employees (wait staff, a hairdresser) but not skilled trades nor professionals (auto mechanic, doctors). FAs can't have it both ways.

MalevTU134 wrote:
So US.


In much of Western Europe the bill just gets marked up (service compris) and the business owner pockets it, not the service employee.


In Eastern Europe (and the rest of the world) you have to tip Doctors and government officials too, or get 10th class service. I'd hate to see the bad habit of tipping become more commonplace for goods and services. It leads down some dark roads.

cranberrysaus wrote:
Maybe they should pay a living wage instead of expecting the customer to subsidize their employees' pay.


MIflyer12 wrote:
These aren't Soviet gulags. Nobody is forcing FAs to work for Frontier.


No one is forcing people to work at all, but it (employment) a necessary and a limited resource if you want to eat. There should ,and are, protections and recourse against predatory and exploited employment. This discussion is about tipping FAs, a bad practice that should not creep into the air. ESPECIALLY by the lowest paying major airline in our civilized country in lieu of industry standard pay.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:44 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
sking1111 wrote:
How do you feel about this?


Institutionalized begging.

We seriously need a "like" option on posts here...cause this would get a crapton.
Gratuities are one thing that I miss about my time living in Europe...here in the states, it's considered an insult if you don't tip at least 15%...in most European countries, tacking on an extra Euro or two to the waiter is considered enough...in Japan, tipping is considered an insult.
 
a350lover
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 pm

FA are not on board Frontier flights to be tipped.
Instead, they are there to ensure a safe operation. It's a pity some airlines go ahead on vanishing the real meaning of that job.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:24 pm

sking1111 wrote:
I just read an article stating that Frontier Airlines has started requesting passengers to tip their flight attendants. The passenger is given a hand held
device that has buttons for certain percentages of gratuity already listed for bill or custom amount. It also has a button saying I prefer not leave a gratuity.
How do you feel about this? If this catches on other budget airlines will probably do the same. We tip wait staff, bartenders, just about everybody in a
hotel so why not flight attendants?
What are your thoughts.

Thoughts are America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage. No idea how paying a slave wage and expecting it to be made up to the minimum wage in tips (which are often expected not earned) is still legal.

Tips are an acknowledgement of good service, a little something extra for going the extra in the rest of the world. They are a bonus, not a part the basic (minimum)wage.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:30 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
sking1111 wrote:
How do you feel about this?


Institutionalized begging.

We seriously need a "like" option on posts here...cause this would get a crapton.
Gratuities are one thing that I miss about my time living in Europe...here in the states, it's considered an insult if you don't tip at least 15%...in most European countries, tacking on an extra Euro or two to the waiter is considered enough...in Japan, tipping is considered an insult.


Which, not surprisingly, is why service in most European restaurants is not very good. In some places it's really bad. I can't speak for Japan.

In general, I'd much rather have an excellent server and leave them a nice tip, than a crappy server I don't have to tip. I was a waiter in the late 90's. Many weekend nights I'd walk with $200-$300 in tips for working 5-7 hours, much of it in cash. That was pretty good money for a college student. My hourly pay from the restaurant was only $2.13/hr. (which pretty much all went to taxes) but I'd gladly take that + tips. I worked my butt off, and I loved it. If you'd have told me I could have worked at another restaurant for say $20/hr with no tips and not had to work as hard, I'd tell you to go pound sand. Admittedly, not all shifts made that money, but it was rare I had a shift where I averaged less than $15/hr (and this was at a time where the minimum wage was around $6/hr IIRC).

I know this doesn't support the socialist argument that you shouldn't have to tip, but the reality is that a good waiter (at a good busy restaurant) does much better with tips than without. I'm happy to reward great service.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
sking1111 wrote:
I just read an article stating that Frontier Airlines has started requesting passengers to tip their flight attendants. The passenger is given a hand held
device that has buttons for certain percentages of gratuity already listed for bill or custom amount. It also has a button saying I prefer not leave a gratuity.
How do you feel about this? If this catches on other budget airlines will probably do the same. We tip wait staff, bartenders, just about everybody in a
hotel so why not flight attendants?
What are your thoughts.

Thoughts are America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage. No idea how paying a slave wage and expecting it to be made up to the minimum wage in tips (which are often expected not earned) is still legal.


Fact: The US pays the 4th highest average wages (mean, but 6th in median household/personal income) of any country in the World. Not to mention, the cost of living in most of the US and tax burden is far lower than other countries in that range. So your argument that "America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage" is a FAIL.

Educate yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... erage_wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:02 pm

CobaltScar wrote:

In Eastern Europe (and the rest of the world) you have to tip Doctors and government officials too, or get 10th class service. I'd hate to see the bad habit of tipping become more commonplace for goods and services. It leads down some dark roads.


In most of the Western World, having to "tip" a government official is called a "bribe". Not even close to comparable to tipping someone in the service industry.

CobaltScar wrote:
No one is forcing people to work at all, but it (employment) a necessary and a limited resource if you want to eat. There should ,and are, protections and recourse against predatory and exploited employment. This discussion is about tipping FAs, a bad practice that should not creep into the air. ESPECIALLY by the lowest paying major airline in our civilized country in lieu of industry standard pay.


With record low unemployment, people can easily find a job somewhere else. As my Grandfather said: "It's a job, not a prision". If you or anyone else really think F9 FAs are paid so poorly, why would you NOT be in favor of them making additional money through tips?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
JayWings
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:27 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
LX015 wrote:
So, to a degree it weakens the argument that flight attendants are there for passengers’ safety and not as wait staff. One doesn’t tip a police officer or TSA agent or doctor...

"Tipping" police officers or TSA agents would be considered bribery.

JayWings wrote:
But I can’t tell you the last time I was served a drink or a sandwich by a police officer. I also couldn’t recall
Flight attendants are expected to juggle numerous responsibilities and fill many different roles. That shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not tip them. I think good flight attendants are some of the most deserving and often least rewarded customer service professionals around. Just my 2 cents.


And just when would passengers have time to tip flight attendants? When the plane is preparing to land? When they are deboarding the plane? I sure wouldn't be inclined to tip if the slowdown in deboarding made me likely to miss my connection. I've got enough to concentrate on when deboarding: making sure I got everything, making sure my wallet and passport are secured on my person, herding all the other people I am flying with. I often don't have a free hand while negotiating an aisle with a roll aboard bag and a personal item.


Attempting to tip flight attendants as you leave the aircraft would be akin to chasing down your server as you walk out the door of a restaurant. And yes, walking and carrying personal items can be a challenging exercise in multitasking. Perhaps you could tip a flight attendant when you are seated during the portion of the flight where you are paying for food or alcohol? Also I have found another good opportunity to tip flight attendants to be after their service is completed during downtime in the back galley. That is if the flight is long enough and it’s safe to get up.

On a separate, general note it’s interesting to say that tipping a flight attendant would lower the emphasis on safety for their line of work. According to that logic FA’s can’t be both safety professionals and customer service employees. And yet that is precisely what flight attendants are expected to be every day! If they don’t deliver customer service they can be penalized. Why should they be excluded from people tipping them for a job well done?
 
Heinkel
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:11 pm

To read this whole discussion about tipping FAs is quite amusing for an European. It is ridiculous for a civilised country. Tipping is a bad habit, especially, when it is expected or forced like in the USA. I hope no airline outside the USA will start such a BS.

What's next? First officer walking through the aisle with a collection box, collecting donations for the "Flight Crew Support Fund"? Give generously!

The race to the bottom gains momentum.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:36 am

RDUDDJI wrote:

Fact: The US pays the 4th highest average wages (mean, but 6th in median household/personal income) of any country in the World. Not to mention, the cost of living in most of the US and tax burden is far lower than other countries in that range. So your argument that "America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage" is a FAIL.

Educate yourself:

Yet the menial/lowest paid job are paid a pittance and for some reason the general public are expected to make up the shortfall by tipping. Means, averages and medians are meaningless to those needing to rely on tips to earn a minimum wage.

Employers are made to pay a minimum wage in a wide variety of countries including the USA. Only the USA allows employers to 'include' tips as part of that BASIC payment. Tips are a bonus, not a base rate.

Which, not surprisingly, is why service in most European restaurants is not very good. In some places it's really bad.

You get some pretty stinking service in the USA too. Except there, the rotten employee providing said stinking service will often literally chase you down the street demanding their tip, because "their wages are so low" and they 'rely on tips'. Tips are earned, they're not a right.

Define 'good service' as it varies by country, culture & climate. Personally I can't stand the faux, arse kissing variety you often see stateside, preferring a laid back honest approach.

Free to educate yourself.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:22 am

Heinkel wrote:
To read this whole discussion about tipping FAs is quite amusing for an European. It is ridiculous for a civilised country. Tipping is a bad habit, especially, when it is expected or forced like in the USA. I hope no airline outside the USA will start such a BS.

What's next? First officer walking through the aisle with a collection box, collecting donations for the "Flight Crew Support Fund"? Give generously!

The race to the bottom gains momentum.


I have never seen anyone tip a flight attendant on any flight to or from the US. I really don't think its practical. I have no problem with the concept and practice of tipping in the US. I find service in Europe can be rather slow compared to the US. That isn't a problem when I am not in a hurry, but I find that it is much easier to get a waiter in the US to accommodate my schedule than in Europe where customary tip levels are substantially lower.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:16 am

a350lover wrote:
FA are not on board Frontier flights to be tipped.
Instead, they are there to ensure a safe operation. It's a pity some airlines go ahead on vanishing the real meaning of that job.


Eh... you act like treating it as a service profession is a new thing that "some airlines" are doing. Watch literally any airline video from the 40's, 50's or 60's and you'll be singing a different tune. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgWUf36Buw

Or how about this collection of old commercials from AA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSbfTwC0NCg

The flight attendant profession has *always* had a dual focus on service and safety. The "real meaning" of that job is both of those things and always has been, and any F/A that doesn't realize they're there to serve the passengers shouldn't be in this profession. What's new these days is making the safety aspect of it so public - airlines used to try to be more discrete about that.

All that said, it's not a profession that should be tipped. We're all paying enough for our tickets to begin with - F/A salaries should be coming out of that. And given different tipping customs around the world and the fact that aviation is by nature a global business, trying to introduce it here is just going to bring confusion. It's a stupid custom in the US to begin with - the last thing we need to be doing is expanding it.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
Heinkel
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:00 am

spacecadet wrote:
All that said, it's not a profession that should be tipped. We're all paying enough for our tickets to begin with - F/A salaries should be coming out of that. And given different tipping customs around the world and the fact that aviation is by nature a global business, trying to introduce it here is just going to bring confusion. It's a stupid custom in the US to begin with - the last thing we need to be doing is expanding it.


Agreed 150% !
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:47 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Yet the menial/lowest paid job are paid a pittance and for some reason the general public are expected to make up the shortfall by tipping.


Tipping is customary. If you don't like tipping stick to fast food. Oh wait, fast food employees (and hundreds of other occupations) earn less than most waiters...

ChrisKen wrote:
Means, averages and medians are meaningless to those needing to rely on tips to earn a minimum wage.


First of all, you should have said "earn far more than a minimum wage".

Secondly, you know your argument is a failure when you start trying to argue FACTS. I suspect you think we should just use your anecdotal allegations... smh

ChrisKen wrote:
Employers are made to pay a minimum wage in a wide variety of countries including the USA. Only the USA allows employers to 'include' tips as part of that BASIC payment.


Only in a few states. Most states either: A) require a minimum wage over the federal minimum, or B) require wages+tips to meet a certain threshold (but always higher than minimum wage.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

ChrisKen wrote:
Tips are a bonus, not a base rate.


Apparently they are both to you (see above).

ChrisKen wrote:
You get some pretty stinking service in the USA too. Except there, the rotten employee providing said stinking service will often literally chase you down the street demanding their tip, because "their wages are so low" and they 'rely on tips'.


Of course, you can get bad service anywhere. When I used Europe as an example, I hear gripes from my colleagues who live there (and travel abroad often) about how bad the service is. I have witnessed it as well, but I leave them to be the judge since they live there. FME, servers are not very attentive, and everything seems to take much longer (even something as simple as a glass of water).

In the US, I've never seen anyone try to run anyone down for a tip. Most restaurants would fire someone who did. We would get the occasional table of foreigners who didn't leave a tip, or would only leave a little. We'd just write it off to not knowing the local custom (unless we actually did a bad job, and we'd know it). Every now and again, we'd even get home grown Americans that sometimes wouldn't tip. Those are the breaks. However, both of those scenarios are more rare than someone who leaves a really big tip.

ChrisKen wrote:
Tips are earned, they're not a right.


You got that one right!

ChrisKen wrote:
Define 'good service' as it varies by country, culture & climate. Personally I can't stand the faux, arse kissing variety you often see stateside, preferring a laid back honest approach.


Good service to me is an attentive, knowledgeable, and gracious host. I think most people would agree with that. But to your example, I'd prefer "faux, arse kissing" to having to flag down a waiter who hasn't stopped by in 20 minutes or having to get up and go find someone to pay. I realize that Europeans and Americans have different restaurant expectations but I seriously doubt the overall server pay is higher in Europe. If you work in a high end restaurant (or bar) in the US, you'd make far more than 15 EUR or whatever the average waiter makes per hour in Europe. If an American or European doesn't want to work for tips, they can go work somewhere else. Or they can just not accept a tip. It's that simple. Just because you don't like to tip, doesn't mean everyone else agrees. Don't like tipping, don't go places where tipping is customary. It's not that hard.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:38 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
If you don't like tipping stick to fast food. Oh wait, fast food employees (and hundreds of other occupations) earn less than most waiters...

For the sake of consistency: Isn't Frontier (or Allegiant, or Spirit) the fast food of air transport? The objective of fast food is to put someting in your stomach, when hungry. The objective of ULCCs is getting you from A to B safely and affordably, while providing very basic inflight service. If there is no expectation to tip a guy at the Burger King, why should there be tip for an FA, who just opens up a can of soda or passes you a bagel?
Shouldn't premium cabins be the place where extra service and attention might actually deserve an extra reward?

RDUDDJI wrote:
Secondly, you know your argument is a failure when you start trying to argue FACTS.

You know when your argument is definitely a failure when you drag into discussion nonsensical allegations of socialism when discussing habits and local customs.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:12 pm

Tipping culture is the worst. I wish people in America paid their employees a living wage rather than relying on the kindness of strangers. Hope this isn't a trend.
@DadCelo
 
joeblow10
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:00 pm

[quote][/quote]Have y’all actually been on Frontier? This has been going on for 3+ years every time I fly them.

They hand you the payment device to sign, and it asks if you’d like to tip. Have no idea on why this is just getting picked up... it’s been going on forever, and it isn’t intrusive at all.

Appears once again the “great journalism” of TPG is sensationalizing something out of nothing. I have never tipped when I order a Coke or Chex Mix, and the FAs certainly don’t seem to care one bit.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:58 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
If there is no expectation to tip a guy at the Burger King, why should there be tip for an FA, who just opens up a can of soda or passes you a bagel?


That’s just the problem; increasingly, there IS this newfound expectation among fast food/counter service personnel that they be tipped, when all they’ve done is rung up your order. It’s becoming more problematic with tablet-based payment systems, where the server hands you the tablet and you’re put on the spot to either tip them as you complete the purchase - before any service actually occurs - or show you didn’t and hand it back to them with no tip checked. Some servers dislike it, however, saying they’re just as embarrassed about the awkward experience as the customer is.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/you-want-2 ... 1539790018

https://www.today.com/money/guilt-tippi ... ne-t126151
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geologyrocks
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:05 am

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:36 am

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say you’re not a server but accept tips to give drinks. This trend of tipping people for just doing their jobs is rather annoying.

As for actual servers...since they really aren’t paid anything significant than I get it. At the same time, you can’t complain that you only make $2 per hour. I would bet most servers would not want to transition to an actual rate without tips. They know the overwhelming majority of time that they are coming out ahead so you need to pick which way you want it.
 
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CarlosSi
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:21 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
sking1111 wrote:
I just read an article stating that Frontier Airlines has started requesting passengers to tip their flight attendants. The passenger is given a hand held
device that has buttons for certain percentages of gratuity already listed for bill or custom amount. It also has a button saying I prefer not leave a gratuity.
How do you feel about this? If this catches on other budget airlines will probably do the same. We tip wait staff, bartenders, just about everybody in a
hotel so why not flight attendants?
What are your thoughts.

Thoughts are America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage. No idea how paying a slave wage and expecting it to be made up to the minimum wage in tips (which are often expected not earned) is still legal.


Fact: The US pays the 4th highest average wages (mean, but 6th in median household/personal income) of any country in the World. Not to mention, the cost of living in most of the US and tax burden is far lower than other countries in that range. So your argument that "America needs to join the 21st century and pay a decent wage" is a FAIL.

Educate yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... erage_wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income


I don't know if that's really a good metric to use.

In example, you have one country where each employee (lets say ten) earns $12 an hour for an average wage of $12. In another country, you have five employees earn $8, and five earn $16, for an average of $12 an hour. Average wage does not depict the hyper inequality experienced in the US which we've all heard of before.

It's the same with the airline industry; average pay may be $70000, but pilots at the bottom start at around $35-40K and it used to be far far worse.
 
Some1Somewhere
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am

Tipping also has the disadvantage that it can be unreliable. You might make lots one week then the next is a complete loss. And I suspect the people living paycheck to paycheck are the same that are on lower wages.

Plus, there's the tax argument: Far fewer tips are reported than are taken, as it's basically an honour system (though this doesn't apply to the digital systems so much).

And then there's the question of transparency: Almost anywhere else, I can assume that $5 will pay for a drink that's advertised at $5. In the US, tax and tips are on top of this.
 
oschkosch
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:00 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
Tipping culture is the worst. I wish people in America paid their employees a living wage rather than relying on the kindness of strangers. Hope this isn't a trend.
I agree!

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RDUDDJI
Posts: 2080
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:03 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Tipping culture is the worst. I wish people in America paid their employees a living wage rather than relying on the kindness of strangers. Hope this isn't a trend.


Unless you live in one of the 6 countries that have a higher per capita income than the US, it must be painful to be so ignorant.

Seriously, A) the European education system must be quite bad when it comes to non-Euro socioeconomics, or B) Europeans aren't smart enough to know when to STFU about things they don't understand.
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RDUDDJI
Posts: 2080
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:19 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
If you don't like tipping stick to fast food. Oh wait, fast food employees (and hundreds of other occupations) earn less than most waiters...

For the sake of consistency: Isn't Frontier (or Allegiant, or Spirit) the fast food of air transport? The objective of fast food is to put someting in your stomach, when hungry. The objective of ULCCs is getting you from A to B safely and affordably, while providing very basic inflight service. If there is no expectation to tip a guy at the Burger King, why should there be tip for an FA, who just opens up a can of soda or passes you a bagel?
Shouldn't premium cabins be the place where extra service and attention might actually deserve an extra reward?


Obviously you fail to understand what we are discussing. Airlines are in no way compatible to fast food. Nice try?! Seriously? WTF?

RDUDDJI wrote:
Secondly, you know your argument is a failure when you start trying to argue FACTS.

L410Turbolet wrote:
You know when your argument is definitely a failure when you drag into discussion nonsensical allegations of socialism when discussing habits and local customs.


A) Quoting fail?. B) You still have failed to provide even one fact to rebut the ones I brought. That must hurt for your failed argument. But please continue to troll.

It's seriously disturbing: A) Europeans education (lack thereof) on US socioeconomic customs, and/or B) knowing when to STFU when you don't understand another country's customs.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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gatibosgru
Posts: 1515
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Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:46 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Tipping culture is the worst. I wish people in America paid their employees a living wage rather than relying on the kindness of strangers. Hope this isn't a trend.


Unless you live in one of the 6 countries that have a higher per capita income than the US, it must be painful to be so ignorant.

Seriously, A) the European education system must be quite bad when it comes to non-Euro socioeconomics, or B) Europeans aren't smart enough to know when to STFU about things they don't understand.


I'm not even European, so maybe you should STFU about things you do not understand?
@DadCelo
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6062
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:05 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
If you don't like tipping stick to fast food. Oh wait, fast food employees (and hundreds of other occupations) earn less than most waiters...

For the sake of consistency: Isn't Frontier (or Allegiant, or Spirit) the fast food of air transport? The objective of fast food is to put someting in your stomach, when hungry. The objective of ULCCs is getting you from A to B safely and affordably, while providing very basic inflight service. If there is no expectation to tip a guy at the Burger King, why should there be tip for an FA, who just opens up a can of soda or passes you a bagel?
Shouldn't premium cabins be the place where extra service and attention might actually deserve an extra reward?


Obviously you fail to understand what we are discussing. Airlines are in no way compatible to fast food. Nice try?! Seriously? WTF?


It was you who - for unknown reason - brought restaurant tipping into the discussion about tipping cabin crews. What I used as an example was a mere analogy, trying to steer the discussion back to aviation. I don't understand why it got you so triggered... perhaps it is your lack of abstract thinking?
 
KentB27
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:54 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Frontier is always looking for ways to pay their employees less. If they could outsource flight attendants they would


I remember back when they filmed the Frontier Airlines episode of Undercover Boss that almost all of the employees at the airline had just endured a 10% pay cut.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8857
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:43 pm

Personally, I would not dream of tipping the FA any more than the Pilots or Check In staff.

IMO, this is just a ploy to cut pay.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20901
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:48 pm

KentB27 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Frontier is always looking for ways to pay their employees less. If they could outsource flight attendants they would

I remember back when they filmed the Frontier Airlines episode of Undercover Boss that almost all of the employees at the airline had just endured a 10% pay cut.


bennett123 wrote:
Personally, I would not dream of tipping the FA any more than the Pilots or Check In staff.
IMO, this is just a ploy to cut pay.

Makes me wonder if the FA gets (any or all) of the tip money.

Knowing this outfit, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept some/all for themselves.
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buzzard302
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:06 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:07 pm

I'm an American and I don't care for the concept of tipping. It's a cheap profit grab that doesn't always make it back to the employees that even deserved the tip in the first place. And the trend is ever increasing prices with pressure to tip more and more percentage. Remember when 10-15% was a good tip for great service. Now it's 18-20%. And you are made to feel guilty for tipping any less. I get it, people make their living on tips. But maybe that's why the employee turnover rate is extremely high in these types of positions.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:08 pm

No wonder on my most recent trip, they were more interested in selling stuff than providing service. I asked for a cup of water and they told me that it will have to wait until they are finished selling stuff. I got my small cup of water 2 hours after departure.
 
Rbgso
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm

Re: Gratuity for Flight attendants

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:15 pm

kczombie wrote:
I have been tipping flight attendants for years.


As have I. Every DL FA I've tipped has accepted my gratuities graciously and discreetly.

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