jetsetterusa
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Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:02 pm

With Moxy getting 60 A220s, where do you think there hub or hubs will be and what would the first routes be?
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mikejepp
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:10 pm

How about GSO? It has a big empty terminal, (small) hub history, and good location...
 
Noise
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:13 pm

They ain't gonna do hubs.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:14 pm

Last I heard, they weren't really planning on hubs per se, rather point-to-point from secondary markets.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/01/03/new ... -300-jets/

Think PVD, TTN, FTW, BUR and the like. Of course these could all be red herrings given out by the Moxy people to throw off their future competitors. Or not, we'll just have to wait.
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FA9295
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:16 pm

It'll be mostly an east-coast operation from what I've heard. I'd like to see them here in PDX, but that's probably just a pipe-dream at this point.

And yes, their route network will most likely be similar to Southwest's, where they mostly focus on O&D point-to-point markets.
 
lostsound
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:21 pm

Hope they weren’t kidding about BUR. With the new terminal on the way perhaps more airlines will join the party.
 
burnsie28
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:21 pm

I think Moxy is going to fly more like Frontier.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:24 pm

Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:28 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


G4 is very profitable.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:29 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


I would agree with you under normal circumstances but David Neeleman is a wizard when it comes to starting airlines such as this. I just hope to see them at Mesa Gateway soon!
 
Prost
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:33 pm

I would like to see a Midwest point to point carrier that can then branch out to both coasts concurrently.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:43 pm

Prost wrote:
I would like to see a Midwest point to point carrier that can then branch out to both coasts concurrently.


Me too! But that's because I've always had a soft spot for the Midwest.
learning never stops.
 
N292UX
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:47 pm

Personally, I'd really want to see MEM as a focus city for them. I doubt they'd do hubs but MEM has a huge, rather vacant terminal just asking for an airline to expand there.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:47 pm

lostsound wrote:
Hope they weren’t kidding about BUR. With the new terminal on the way perhaps more airlines will join the party.



I don’t think they were kidding. It was mentioned as a primary city in the first press kit. Neeleman seems to be fond of the place as it was an early blue city and B6 has been there 14+ years and is one of the top yielding stations in the entire B6 network, with recent adds and rumored more coming.

The new terminal should deffinately help draw in new entrants. Last I heard was competition estimated around 2022.
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lightsaber
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:59 pm

I expect no hub, but instead crew bases. Moxie will likely emulate LCCs and avoid hoteling crew at first. I wonder if they will have red-eye flights?

SierraPacific wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


I would agree with you under normal circumstances but David Neeleman is a wizard when it comes to starting airlines such as this. I just hope to see them at Mesa Gateway soon!

If you will, this is a high end G4, flying higher utilization which means lower unit costs and appealing more to professionals by buying up via the app and making it more clear what one is and isn't buying instead of G4's and Spirit's gotcha approach.

It is making customers look forward to the experience, such as Delta, there will be a revenue premium after they are established.
I'll try them.

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syvjeff
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:44 am

I just haven't heard where the airline's operations would be based. Remember, Moxy wants to be more of an App based airline so that means an ops center along with maintenance of the aircraft and training of crews, unless it outsources those duties to another A220 user.
 
Lapplander800
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:53 am

lostsound wrote:
Hope they weren’t kidding about BUR. With the new terminal on the way perhaps more airlines will join the party.


New BUR terminal will be exactly the same capacity as the current Jackson Pollock work of art. Big difference is that it will feature a leagal clearance from the runways and... basic MEP infrastructure...

Personally I find the current establishment fantastic, although slightly worse after they moved rental cars off the tarmac to a purpose built rental car center which is a little bit of a hike and will be annoying with the new terminal.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:01 am

I'd assume East Coast will be focus. intra-West Coast already has a fare war going on and yields would be in the trash for a new entrant
 
B1168
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:08 am

People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?
 
drmlnr1
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:59 am

I would like to see flights out of cld if California pacific doesn’t resume
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spinkid
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:00 am

B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:12 am

FA9295 wrote:
I'd like to see them here in PDX, but that's probably just a pipe-dream at this point.

I'm rather perplexed at how PDX still has yet to experience the ULCC surge that so many other large markets have benefited from over the last few years.

NK and F9 have almost negligible presence, when it seems they could really do a lot in that market: particularly for flights to the southeast.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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FA9295
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:32 am

LAX772LR wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I'd like to see them here in PDX, but that's probably just a pipe-dream at this point.

I'm rather perplexed at how PDX still has yet to experience the ULCC surge that so many other large markets have benefited from over the last few years.

NK and F9 have almost negligible presence, when it seems they could really do a lot in that market: particularly for flights to the southeast.

In general, ULCC dominance is mainly geared towards the east coast, LAS and SAN. Right now at PDX, we just have F9 to DEN and NK to LAS. That's literally it. (and as a side note, I would consider SY a LCC, not an ULCC).
 
aviationaware
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:50 am

No hubs, rather focus cities in airports that got de-hubbed by the majors.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:50 am

FA9295 wrote:
In general, ULCC dominance is mainly geared towards the east coast, LAS and SAN.

DEN is a far larger ULCC base than SAN and LAS

LAX is also significantly larger than SAN and not far from LAS, as per ULCCs, as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:38 am

Sounds like PIE would be perfect.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:35 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


G4 is very profitable.


G4 has been profitable but it isn't very big - only about 1/4 the size of B6, let alone a comparison to AA/DL/UA/WN. 83 aircraft after 20 years in business. How much patience will Airbus have in delivering 60 A220s?
 
steeler83
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:49 pm

Not sure why some are comparing Moxy to Independence. Technically, the A220 is a regional aircraft, but the last time I checked, they're capable of seating about twice as many pax as a CRJ, which I believe was FlyI's main aircraft given they were a cast-off from United (if I remember correctly). CRJs were too expensive, and FlyI flew them on routes that should have had mainline. They did get a hand on some A319s as I recall, but they were already circling the drain at that point. That's what I gathered years ago when they went belly up.

Anyway, let's see how these plans materialize. I wish them the best.
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OA940
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:06 pm

Their model is based entirely on point-point flights, and the A220 is a plane that works very well on point-point flights.
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xdlx
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:01 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


Obviously you must not know the CV from the one with the idea. 5 airlines managed, turn around, or built from scratch.
He ll do a bit better than IAir or G4.
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:32 pm

if the A220 can work with the short runway at HVN, i’m sure moxy will take full advantage.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:09 pm

LGB
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:36 pm

The East Coast corridor seems already saturated. Unless Moxy brings something to the table well above the other ULCCs I question the airline being able to gain traction. And that extra "special" is going to cost $$ and its doubtful Moxy will be able to increase fares. The Midwest doesn't have the population numbers of the East Coast. The West Coast corridor is also pretty much saturated as well.

Possibly under utilized airports in populated areas such as TNN, ISP, SFB or BUR. I wonder if Teterboro in NJ could handle commercial traffic? Either way Neeleman is going to find a much more inhospitable environment today than he did in 1999.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:42 pm

I wonder if MHT could see Moxy service as a northern alternative to BOS and PVD as a southern alternative? Like WN did before entering the BOS market. MHT has room and decent facilities for additional service.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:52 pm

I will wager when (if) they start flying, the "who will they merge with" threads will start within a year.
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CLTDAL
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:57 pm

I think MEM is an EXCELLENT city to start a hub operation. Afterall, it was Republics hub back in the 80's and when NWA bought them, they kept it. It is now being redone and will be beautiful! Geographically its in a great location for service all over and would compete very nicely with ATL and CLT. To me, its a complete No Brainer as to why it hasn't been made into a hub by a new airline. I always thought B6 should have taken it over. They dont need 2 Focus Cities in Florida. Also....its a HUGE and probably the biggest hub for FEDEX. The city is a bit rundown, but its coming around and has a huge music scene and soul food downtown similar to that of Austin, TX. I say GO MEM!!!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:11 pm

All this talk of hubs for Moxy, is curious, because Neeleman hasn't pushed that agenda, not saying he won't have one, but all his talk has been about P2P. Interview in October also gives some idea of what he might do. There's a long time between now and launch date for theories to to change of course and my default he may will end up with some focus cities as a result, but I don't believe his intention is to build a hub anywhere, like some have said, more like a G4 scenario, although it does appear one of the ideas at time of writing was to link FLL to Brazil and tie up with Azul
https://skift.com/2018/10/26/jetblue-fo ... l-airline/

Again, plenty of time for the model to change and I will happily admit I am wrong if it turns out he goes for the hub model, but I don't think a hub network is what he's going after at least initially.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
PVD757
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:39 pm

I continue to think any market that has no nonstop service and has 40-50 PDEW in at least 1 quarter of the year could be a 2-4x weekly potential route. PVD alone has a decent list: Los Angeles, LAS, PHX, SAN, San Fran area, Dallas, Houston, MSP, ORF, JAX, MSY, AUS, CHS, STL. DEN and RSW are less than an year round and you also have winter destinations in the first quarter like CUN that spike up too. There are dozens of airports across the US that have similar lists.
 
F27500
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:41 pm

I think there will be focus cities (as destination points from these smaller cities) … but hubs? No .. he has already said its not going to be a hub based airline.

Ive also heard the "Moxy" was just the working name of this project .. and the airline will actually be named something else. Anyone else heard that?
 
IAmGaroott
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:07 pm

spinkid wrote:
B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.


I’d love to see LAL with regularly scheduled service. I feel like it could become a popular LCC/ULCC destination with its strategic position between Tampa and Orlando. Especially if it could get a stop on the Brightli.... I mean Virgin Trains USA expansion.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:20 pm

F27500 wrote:
I think there will be focus cities (as destination points from these smaller cities) … but hubs? No .. he has already said its not going to be a hub based airline.

Ive also heard the "Moxy" was just the working name of this project .. and the airline will actually be named something else. Anyone else heard that?


Extract from the source I quoted a couple of comments above.

FORGET ABOUT THE NAME MOXY
Neeleman said the airline probably won’t be named Moxy, which is the name he initially wanted to call JetBlue. Neeleman said his brother works for a branding law firm and has been in touch with Marriott, which has the Moxy Hotels brand in his portfolio.

“I could call this airline crap and people will love it because of the way I’m going to treat them,” Neeleman said
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
VS11
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:23 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
I will wager when (if) they start flying, the "who will they merge with" threads will start within a year.


The answer would be rather easy: jetBlue :-)
 
bob75013
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:36 pm

B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


The Wright Amendment (WARA actually) only restricts WN operations and only til 2024. Any other airline can do anything it wants at any airport that will have it.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:57 pm

VS11 wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I will wager when (if) they start flying, the "who will they merge with" threads will start within a year.


The answer would be rather easy: jetBlue :-)

Perhaps that’s what B6 means by 60 options by 2025 j/k
If that were to happen somehow, that would give them a serious leg up in terms of sizing and capacity at that point, then add the 60 options, you would be looking at a fleet of 350 or so by 2030...
Hmmm.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
flyguy84
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:59 pm

Let me know when this airline comes to fruition.... then we can talk about it.
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Frontier14
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:10 pm

With 70% +/- of the US population living east of the Mississippi River and another 20% living on the west coast we will most likely see DN's new airline flying mainly in these regions. If he is smart, which he is, Big 4 hubs and existing ULCC focus cities will be minimized or avoided.

Frontier 14
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:15 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.



It sounds nothing like Independence Air. They started with CRJs and a hub at IAD (that competes head to head with UA on every single route) during the most expensive fuel prices ever.

Fuel is cheap and dropping for the foreseeable future. Moxy only has one type of aircraft planned. P2P flying to secondary markets. Moxy also has a proven leader and more financing behind it.
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Revelation
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:19 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
I will wager when (if) they start flying, the "who will they merge with" threads will start within a year.

Of course, because it's a natural question.

Moxy has a pretty creative business plan and because they're all new they will bring in younger and/or displaced workers with lower pay demands and an all new fleet will keep maintenance costs low.

If executing the business plan results in a promising business, someone will want to buy them out.

If not, 60 A220s and an AOC alone could be interesting to someone.
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StrandedAtMKG
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:21 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
The East Coast corridor seems already saturated. Unless Moxy brings something to the table well above the other ULCCs I question the airline being able to gain traction. And that extra "special" is going to cost $$ and its doubtful Moxy will be able to increase fares. The Midwest doesn't have the population numbers of the East Coast. The West Coast corridor is also pretty much saturated as well.

Possibly under utilized airports in populated areas such as TNN, ISP, SFB or BUR. I wonder if Teterboro in NJ could handle commercial traffic? Either way Neeleman is going to find a much more inhospitable environment today than he did in 1999.


I think the entire point of Moxy is to be jetBlue 2.0 and learn from the mistakes of Frontier (doesn't fly anywhere anyone gives a damn about), Spirit (that'll be $8.00 for a bottle of water, sir), and Air Walmart...er, Southwest. Neeleman's whole deal is starting LCC's that are a step up from the competition.
 
BGS91762
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:30 pm

jetsetterusa wrote:
With Moxy getting 60 A220s, where do you think there hub or hubs will be and what would the first routes be?

I would expect to see ONT in the mix as a good secondary LA airport with great management.

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