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Buddys747
Posts: 314
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:37 pm

Jerseyguy wrote:
Moxy would be perfect for TTN, with its A220, it can utilize the 6006' runway and go to the destinations that F9 cannot (anything west of MSP and in the south MSY). The 220 could reach LAX (not that I'm saying that should be a destination). As long as the NIMBYs don't blow up the deal like they did with Southwest back in the 90s. They'd have a new 4 gate terminal (2 for F9 2 for MXY) around 2021-2022 and it would attract the crowd that doesn't want ULCC service. They'd be limited to a 2 gate 22 flight station but I don't think there is a better alternative to TTN for Philly and you get the southern EWR catchment.

I agree TTN would be great.
MDT would be another good alternative airport. They currently have three totally unused gates.
1/2 of central PA uses BWI for the low fare battles that are always going on there, so MDT would be a good alternative.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:40 pm

Bradin wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

Extract from the source I quoted a couple of comments above.

FORGET ABOUT THE NAME MOXY
Neeleman said the airline probably won’t be named Moxy, which is the name he initially wanted to call JetBlue. Neeleman said his brother works for a branding law firm and has been in touch with Marriott, which has the Moxy Hotels brand in his portfolio.

“I could call this airline crap and people will love it because of the way I’m going to treat them,” Neeleman said


Neelman seems quite arrogant. Like JetBlue, his influence won't last forever. With JetBlue's new labor unions and cuts in service levels the are no different than the rest now. You can't compete with the likes of Spirit and Allegiant while offering something luxurious.


Except Neelman isn't at the helm of JetBlue presently. In fact, I don't believe David has been involved at JetBlue since May 21, 2008.


That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.
 
cschleic
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


G4 is very profitable.


G4 has been profitable but it isn't very big - only about 1/4 the size of B6, let alone a comparison to AA/DL/UA/WN. 83 aircraft after 20 years in business. How much patience will Airbus have in delivering 60 A220s?


Also, G4 is a travel company that operates an airline. A lot of their business is full vacations packages so it's a bit of apples and oranges.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:51 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Bradin wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Neelman seems quite arrogant. Like JetBlue, his influence won't last forever. With JetBlue's new labor unions and cuts in service levels the are no different than the rest now. You can't compete with the likes of Spirit and Allegiant while offering something luxurious.


Except Neelman isn't at the helm of JetBlue presently. In fact, I don't believe David has been involved at JetBlue since May 21, 2008.


That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Who cares? That's for down the line a decade or so. For now, we have a new airline with new opportunities offering more choices in a consumer-friendly manner providing jobs to people who want to work there and transportation to people who want to fly them.

What's the problem? JetBlue has evolved, not gone under.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:58 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Bradin wrote:

Except Neelman isn't at the helm of JetBlue presently. In fact, I don't believe David has been involved at JetBlue since May 21, 2008.


That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Who cares? That's for down the line a decade or so. For now, we have a new airline with new opportunities offering more choices in a consumer-friendly manner providing jobs to people who want to work there and transportation to people who want to fly them.

What's the problem? JetBlue has evolved, not gone under.


So tell us how he plans to provide a luxury travel experience yet compete with the ULCC's on price. The math just doesn't work and that has always been Neelman's problem. The employees are not going to work for smiles and your vendors will not take a hug as payment. You can't be top tier and cheap. You have to pick one.
 
Bradin
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:18 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Who cares? That's for down the line a decade or so. For now, we have a new airline with new opportunities offering more choices in a consumer-friendly manner providing jobs to people who want to work there and transportation to people who want to fly them.

What's the problem? JetBlue has evolved, not gone under.


So tell us how he plans to provide a luxury travel experience yet compete with the ULCC's on price. The math just doesn't work and that has always been Neelman's problem. The employees are not going to work for smiles and your vendors will not take a hug as payment. You can't be top tier and cheap. You have to pick one.


From my perspective:

I'm not worried about ULCC's. In fact, I hate the term ULCCs because most ULCC's are not honestly Ultra Low Cost Carriers. They are technically "ULPC's" - Ultra Low Price Carriers.

True LCCs and ULCCs are focused on lowering and simplifying operational costs. Southwest may be a regular priced carrier against the original Big American 3 Carriers, however their competitive advantage is their low operational costs. Simplified parts, operational commonality.

I have a fairly good idea how David will probably bring luxury in at an affordable rate because he did it once with JetBlue. He's looking to leverage technology to solve operational inefficiencies.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:22 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Who cares? That's for down the line a decade or so. For now, we have a new airline with new opportunities offering more choices in a consumer-friendly manner providing jobs to people who want to work there and transportation to people who want to fly them.

What's the problem? JetBlue has evolved, not gone under.


So tell us how he plans to provide a luxury travel experience yet compete with the ULCC's on price. The math just doesn't work and that has always been Neelman's problem. The employees are not going to work for smiles and your vendors will not take a hug as payment. You can't be top tier and cheap. You have to pick one.

Actually... No. legacy coach is competing with the ultra low-cost carriers anyway.

Back of the plane is ULCC with the tight seat pitch. then a more premium coach say JetBlue like for few rows. The front of the plane would be business class seats. Mixie is looking to reconfigure the aircraft quickly so that they can change based on seasonal trends.

By using the app to ensure customers know what they are buying, different markets are served.

Just as Delta has basic economy to first class, so will Moxie. Moxie just assumes more dynamic changes.

Neeleman has kept good employee morale in the past at LCCs, so it is possible.

Luxury is the seat and amenities. JetBlue showed Mint has a market. But also that too many coach were cheap, so they are evolving by adding cheap seats.

The market is barbelling (going low and high). Premium demand wants flights at preferred times. ULCCs are back them in. By using a small, but incredibly economical aircraft, the price point is achieved.

You can do both if the airline clearly differentiates. I've flown Delta in first and basic economy. Very different price points. To me, the airlines are doing a poor job selling the different fare buckets.

I see an opportunity. In particular, opening up p2p as G4 and NK do. But do it with a smile. Do it with incredibly dynamic route allocation. Think G4 meets U2.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:40 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
How is the Ryanair business model different from the F9, G4, or NK business model (which are all fairly successful here in the US)?


It's different from Spirit and Frontier in the fact that they fly from secondary airports and don't offer connections. They're strictly point-to-point.

In such they're most comparable to Allegiant, however they're going one step further than Allegiant. They're doing the things that Ryanair does, but Allegiant doesn't do. For example transfers to and from the airport. This is fairly common in Europe but new to America. No American airline does this so far, while in Europe Ryanair, Wizzair and several other airlines all sell transfers. A local subcontractor offers a shuttle service between the city and the airport and tickets are sold through the airline. That's one of the things why secondary airports are so successful in Europe. It's not public transport, it's an arranged shared ride.

Also look at the fares. In America the average fare difference between a ULCC and a legacy airline is about 20%. In Europe this can be up to 60% or higher. You won't find the ultra low Ryanair fares anywhere in America. If Americans have to pay 60 dollars for a ticket on an ULCC they call that cheap, if Europeans have to pay 60 euros for a ticket on an ULCC they'll most likely pass. Too expensive. Ryanair offers fares as low as 10 euros or sometimes even less. The euro and dollar are more or less worth the same, so you can compare them.

Moxy could perhaps bring those ultra low Ryanair fares to America. Of course only a few seats per flight, after that the price goes up. They make a loss on those seats, but it's good publicity. Their real earnings are in ancillary fees, which are more extensive than anywhere else. Rental cars, hotel rooms, it can all be booked through the airline. You don't just book a flight, you book everything else you need along with it. The flight is cheap, but all together it can be quite an amount of money.

You should check some of F9’s airfares. I can fly this Saturday CVG-RSW for $38.30. That is $4.65 in airfare and $33.65 in taxes and fees.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:52 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


That is a tough one to predict, especially since all we really know is the aircraft type. Neeleman on the other hand has proven over and over again that he knows what he is doing. While I agree, it sounds like a mess... That all kind of changes when Neeleman is heading it. I was proven wrong so badly against B6. In fact, I gave them less than a year to survive. When 9/11 happened, I predicted the end was near. Boy was I proven wrong.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:53 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Moxy, Schmoxy….they sound a bit like Independence Air and where are they now? They'll be like G4...always looking to connect 'underserved' cities until they realize most of them are unserved because there's no money to be made flying point-to-point between them.


That is a tough one to predict, especially since all we really know is the aircraft type. Neeleman on the other hand has proven over and over again that he knows what he is doing. While I agree, it sounds like a mess... That all kind of changes when Neeleman is heading it. I was proven wrong so badly against B6. In fact, I gave them less than a year to survive. When 9/11 happened, I predicted the end was near. Boy was I proven wrong.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Yakflyer
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:54 am

Frontier14 wrote:
With 70% +/- of the US population living east of the Mississippi River and another 20% living on the west coast we will most likely see DN's new airline flying mainly in these regions. If he is smart, which he is, Big 4 hubs and existing ULCC focus cities will be minimized or avoided.

Frontier 14


This

Look where population is most dense and that is where Moxy will fly. It's not rocket science......
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:00 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Bradin wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Neelman seems quite arrogant. Like JetBlue, his influence won't last forever. With JetBlue's new labor unions and cuts in service levels the are no different than the rest now. You can't compete with the likes of Spirit and Allegiant while offering something luxurious.


Except Neelman isn't at the helm of JetBlue presently. In fact, I don't believe David has been involved at JetBlue since May 21, 2008.


That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Interestingly enough, he says Moxy will be private and does see it going public as he doesn't want the needless advise of wall street analyst. There appears to be enough private investors to get it going.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:13 am

cledaybuck wrote:
You should check some of F9’s airfares. I can fly this Saturday CVG-RSW for $38.30. That is $4.65 in airfare and $33.65 in taxes and fees.


The USA has some extremely high taxes and fees then. I've seen Ryanair fares as low as € 5 including taxes and fees.
 
Bradin
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:33 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Bradin wrote:

Except Neelman isn't at the helm of JetBlue presently. In fact, I don't believe David has been involved at JetBlue since May 21, 2008.


That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Interestingly enough, he says Moxy will be private and does see it going public as he doesn't want the needless advise of wall street analyst. There appears to be enough private investors to get it going.


I might be wrong, but I think what David meant was Moxy would not be a publicly traded company. However, he still will have venture capital, angel funding, private investors and private equity still making investments into Moxy.
 
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dabpit
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:55 pm

David Neeleman is really good at starting up new airlines. His focus on the technology is similar to when he started B6 but with all the advances in the technology his goals are highly achievable.

Here are my picks for the main focus cities:
SFB, HIO, AZA, PAE, PIE, OAK, COS, PVD, and SWF

The top picks for the focus cities are:
PIT, BUR, FTW, ILG, and GYY
Carpe Diem
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:16 pm

Bradin wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

That's my point. He won't be around forever at Moxy either. His head in the clouds dreams don't sit well with shareholders. It especially doesn't work at an ULCC.


Interestingly enough, he says Moxy will be private and does see it going public as he doesn't want the needless advise of wall street analyst. There appears to be enough private investors to get it going.


I might be wrong, but I think what David meant was Moxy would not be a publicly traded company. However, he still will have venture capital, angel funding, private investors and private equity still making investments into Moxy.



https://skift-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/ ... airline%2F

Going Public?
Neeleman claimed he’s not sure he would ever take the new airline public in terms of an initial public offering, citing the high investor interest in the enterprise. He said he doesn’t want to deal with private equity and venture capital investors.

Instead, Neeleman said, he’d rather have the airline remain private, generate cash, and share that cash with the airline’s employees.

Also:

He added that the airline will fly from the U.S. to Europe and South America, avoiding competitors’ hubs. The A220-300 the airline will fly has the capability of taking off from “really short runways, and can fly for 11 hours,” Neeleman said.

He said the airline will fly from Florida to cities in northern Brazil, for example. It will go after the leisure or visiting friends or family segments, depending on the market.

Neeleman also mentioned that the carrier will be able to fly to destinations from cities in the northeast U.S., and he mentioned Scranton, Pennyslvania, for example.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:20 pm

As I have said, If the A220-300 can really fly 11hrs, now that will be interesting.
Last edited by WaywardMemphian on Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
micstatic
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:22 pm

if they could find a way to overcome politics and Delta, there is definitely opportunity in the suburbs of atlanta. But it would be very tough to overcome the obstacles right now.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:28 pm

Here is another great read, he goes into Azul being so in time and the TAP turnaround plus lots of Moxy talk

https://www-cntraveler-com.cdn.ampproje ... ew-airline
 
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enilria
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:38 pm

jetsetterusa wrote:
With Moxy getting 60 A220s, where do you think there hub or hubs will be and what would the first routes be?

Given everything we know about them, and the staff they are hiring, it's going to be G4 v.2.0. So there will be whatever you call SFB/LAS/etc for Allegiant. I would call them hubs in the operational sense, less the passenger connecting sense. G4 does connect some amount of pax in them.

I think they will probably do SFB to smaller cities than G4 is flying, possibly LAL instead.
I think they'd love to do LAS, but I don't really see how it works for their proposed model.
Other possibilities are AUS, FTW, BUR, SWF, ISP, PBI, SRQ, UST, GYY.

BJC/APA are also VERY interesting if the runway length can be dealt with. I seem to remember that there was a court case a while back that opened BJC to commercial service after the requesting airline ran out of money fighting in court.
 
Bradin
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:31 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Bradin wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:

Interestingly enough, he says Moxy will be private and does see it going public as he doesn't want the needless advise of wall street analyst. There appears to be enough private investors to get it going.


I might be wrong, but I think what David meant was Moxy would not be a publicly traded company. However, he still will have venture capital, angel funding, private investors and private equity still making investments into Moxy.



https://skift-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/ ... airline%2F

Going Public?
Neeleman claimed he’s not sure he would ever take the new airline public in terms of an initial public offering, citing the high investor interest in the enterprise. He said he doesn’t want to deal with private equity and venture capital investors.

Instead, Neeleman said, he’d rather have the airline remain private, generate cash, and share that cash with the airline’s employees.

Also:

He added that the airline will fly from the U.S. to Europe and South America, avoiding competitors’ hubs. The A220-300 the airline will fly has the capability of taking off from “really short runways, and can fly for 11 hours,” Neeleman said.

He said the airline will fly from Florida to cities in northern Brazil, for example. It will go after the leisure or visiting friends or family segments, depending on the market.

Neeleman also mentioned that the carrier will be able to fly to destinations from cities in the northeast U.S., and he mentioned Scranton, Pennyslvania, for example.


Yup... but he’s still raising capital. I think there was some noise around June of 2018 where he was trying to raise 100 million in startup capital.

That money has to come from somewhere.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
. I just hope to see them at Mesa Gateway soon!

Ditto!
 
adam47150
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:13 pm

enilria wrote:
jetsetterusa wrote:
I think they will probably do SFB to smaller cities than G4 is flying


Can't get much smaller than OWB...lol.

But, I wonder if they would be looking at places like HUF or EVV as alternates to places like IND and SDF.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:15 pm

adam47150 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jetsetterusa wrote:
I think they will probably do SFB to smaller cities than G4 is flying


Can't get much smaller than OWB...lol.

But, I wonder if they would be looking at places like HUF or EVV as alternates to places like IND and SDF.


Isn't the runway extension at Gary complete? There's your Chicago area airport. Belleville for STL, aren't they doubling the terminal there.

There's the former hubs with extra gates that Southwest didn't flood into, Pit, Cleveland, Memphis.

Newport News as a split between Richmond and Norfolk and closer to the vacation attractions that isn't a beach.

If I was a start up, I'd want a crack at commercial sercice for Galveston. It's grown into a quite sizable cruise port and the traffic between there and Houston is often horrendous.
 
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enilria
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:28 pm

adam47150 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jetsetterusa wrote:
I think they will probably do SFB to smaller cities than G4 is flying


Can't get much smaller than OWB...lol.

But, I wonder if they would be looking at places like HUF or EVV as alternates to places like IND and SDF.

Basically anywhere TSA will staff. EAS probably.
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:20 am

enilria wrote:
jetsetterusa wrote:
With Moxy getting 60 A220s, where do you think there hub or hubs will be and what would the first routes be?

Given everything we know about them, and the staff they are hiring, it's going to be G4 v.2.0. So there will be whatever you call SFB/LAS/etc for Allegiant. I would call them hubs in the operational sense, less the passenger connecting sense. G4 does connect some amount of pax in them.

I think they will probably do SFB to smaller cities than G4 is flying, possibly LAL instead.
I think they'd love to do LAS, but I don't really see how it works for their proposed model.
Other possibilities are AUS, FTW, BUR, SWF, ISP, PBI, SRQ, UST, GYY.

BJC/APA are also VERY interesting if the runway length can be dealt with. I seem to remember that there was a court case a while back that opened BJC to commercial service after the requesting airline ran out of money fighting in court.


SFB/LAS for Allegiant are considered a "base"

I'd love to see "Moxy" at PIE.

Im curious when the flights will actually start, also curious about the new name and branding. Neeleman is a wizz at branding
Aviation Enthusiast working in Airport Operations
 
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enilria
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:06 pm

deltadudejg wrote:
SFB/LAS for Allegiant are considered a "base"

I'd love to see "Moxy" at PIE.

Im curious when the flights will actually start, also curious about the new name and branding. Neeleman is a wizz at branding

FAA defines hubs by number of flights. My definition is that if it only has as few as 16 flights per day, but they are timed to connect it is a hub, BUT once you get to somewhere in the 100-150+ departure range it's a hub regardless of what anybody wants to call it. If you have that many flights, like it or not, people are connecting. Even if you don't transfer their baggage, they'll connect.

I think Moxy at PIE is a good bet, unless they do LAL.
 
Bradin
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:11 pm

Curious - what do the a.net analysts think of the possibility of Moxy's big hub being in Salt Lake City? I seem to recall that's where a lot of the initial work is being done there.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:41 pm

Bradin wrote:
Curious - what do the a.net analysts think of the possibility of Moxy's big hub being in Salt Lake City? I seem to recall that's where a lot of the initial work is being done there.


I think the whole point is to not have a big hub.

I can really see him copying Ryan Air and other Euro LCCs and park 2 to 5 jets here and there and call them bases. Let's face it, he is going to poach the hell out of the regionals for pilots but locating in places like Memphis where there may be a few retired but still able to fly pilots that might like to fly once a week just to and not be caught up in the dog eat dog world of contract negotiations and such.
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:07 am

Bradin wrote:
Curious - what do the a.net analysts think of the possibility of Moxy's big hub being in Salt Lake City? I seem to recall that's where a lot of the initial work is being done there.


I'm not sure how large of a market is available out West. I've always been told that Allegiant focuses on the East coast market because the West is so saturated. Now I'm not as familiar with West coast EAS cities as I am with East Coast but I feel that SLC is well served with Delta, and between American, United, Southwest and Alaska connecting through their hubs closes the gap for other destinations not served from SLC
Aviation Enthusiast working in Airport Operations
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:56 am

My predictions for focus cities:
PVD
CLE or BKL
RIC
AUS
MKE
Something near LA or SAN (Carlsbad or ONT???)

All of these are non-hub airports about two hours or less from major traffic and need some new point to point traffic. RIC almost completely lacks service from WN (and is close to DC, Hampton roads), Cleveland would make a nice new focus city to replace UA, is close to CMH and PIT, AUS still is underserved, and MKE makes a good alternate to ORD. LA just seems like the usual - every carrier has some sort of operation there (even JetBlue in Long Beach)
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:06 am

I think Moxy will have based in cities which don’t already have one.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:38 am

Do we think they will even have focus cities? They seem to be wanting to do mostly point to point on routes that aren't currently served. I guess there could be focus like cities but I am not sure how much. I guess they have to have some sort of base. I just don't know what to expect.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:54 am

I wouldnt be surprised if we see focus cities. And, I am willing to bet that if this is considered a ULCC, it will easily beat F9, Spirit, and Allegiant in just about every category there is. Who says that a ULCC or LCC cant have good service, quality products, and good customer service? If Neelman really wanted to turn heads, he will drop right into the middle of the action and begin taking numbers.

As for doubts? I cant think of any. This man has yet to prove anyone wrong, even when many said he had no chance. He very well may start out in low competition markets, but I see no way around going head to head with others eventually.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
rbavfan
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:05 am

lostsound wrote:
Hope they weren’t kidding about BUR. With the new terminal on the way perhaps more airlines will join the party.


The new terminal replaces the old terminal with the same 14 gates, no expansion. How do you join the party?
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:26 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
My predictions for focus cities:
PVD
CLE or BKL
RIC
AUS
MKE
Something near LA or SAN (Carlsbad or ONT???)

All of these are non-hub airports about two hours or less from major traffic and need some new point to point traffic. RIC almost completely lacks service from WN (and is close to DC, Hampton roads), Cleveland would make a nice new focus city to replace UA, is close to CMH and PIT, AUS still is underserved, and MKE makes a good alternate to ORD. LA just seems like the usual - every carrier has some sort of operation there (even JetBlue in Long Beach)


What about the likes of CAK and YNG? The former of which is airlineless again.

rbavfan wrote:
lostsound wrote:
Hope they weren’t kidding about BUR. With the new terminal on the way perhaps more airlines will join the party.


The new terminal replaces the old terminal with the same 14 gates, no expansion. How do you join the party?


The current gates aren’t used anywhere close to their max. A recent BUR thread stated the gates have room to handle at least 40-50 additional flights per day, even with BUR’s soft curfew hours.
 
Gulfstream500
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:36 am

The focus cities may only have five destinations each... It might be the best business model.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
sargester
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:01 am

spinkid wrote:
B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.


these airports I feel are just too small for commercial service, except Trenton and SGJ
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:48 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
My predictions for focus cities:
PVD
CLE or BKL
RIC
AUS
MKE
Something near LA or SAN (Carlsbad or ONT???)

All of these are non-hub airports about two hours or less from major traffic and need some new point to point traffic. RIC almost completely lacks service from WN (and is close to DC, Hampton roads), Cleveland would make a nice new focus city to replace UA, is close to CMH and PIT, AUS still is underserved, and MKE makes a good alternate to ORD. LA just seems like the usual - every carrier has some sort of operation there (even JetBlue in Long Beach)

I can see ONT as the LA area airport. Vastly underused by all the majors. Would love to see a MKE-ONT nonstop on something other than WN from LAX.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:42 am

sargester wrote:
spinkid wrote:
B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.


these airports I feel are just too small for commercial service, except Trenton and SGJ


No one knows. Is EYW(Key West) too small? Yet it has commercial flights. Those airports’ commercialization, if capable of A220s’ operations, is solely depending on its popularity. With demand, supply will always be created.
 
KD5MDK
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:56 am

I think that even if you don't offer connecting flights, the crewing, market mindshare and maintenance advantages of having a lot of your business go through a few points is pretty strong.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 690
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Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:14 pm

sargester wrote:
spinkid wrote:
B1168 wrote:
People here seems to be so interested in For Worth’s airports. Have Moxy planed to try TKI and DTO out? Or does the Wrights Amendment ban it?


I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.


these airports I feel are just too small for commercial service, except Trenton and SGJ


Chicopee has an adequate terminal, a 10,000 + foot runway, and is accessible from main roads. It was one of the few Skybus destinations that was successful and slated for additional service. If the right destinations are chosen, then Moxy has no reason to not perform well out of that market, even being 20 miles from BDL.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:06 pm

I'm not sure what travel segment they're looking at, but someone could start weekend flights into GLS to meet the cruise ships. Not having to spend 1-2 hours in a van shuttling from airport to dock would be a plus, and those boats carry over 3,000 passengers at a time.
 
sargester
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:10 pm

B1168 wrote:
sargester wrote:
spinkid wrote:

I'm wondering along similar lines. Will go go to what are more like Tertiary airports and connect them to secondary and primary cities. I'm thinking about places like Chicopee, MA, Lakeland, FL, Pease, NH, St. Augistine, Trenton etc.


these airports I feel are just too small for commercial service, except Trenton and SGJ


No one knows. Is EYW(Key West) too small? Yet it has commercial flights. Those airports’ commercialization, if capable of A220s’ operations, is solely depending on its popularity. With demand, supply will always be created.


no, not the physical airports, the market is too small, airlines haven't served Lakeland and SGJ for years for good reason, the market isn't there, it would be hard to stimulate the market in those areas and convince people to fly into LAL instead of MCO or SFB
 
HeartofFlorida
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue May 21, 2019 12:33 am

sargester wrote:
B1168 wrote:
sargester wrote:

these airports I feel are just too small for commercial service, except Trenton and SGJ


No one knows. Is EYW(Key West) too small? Yet it has commercial flights. Those airports’ commercialization, if capable of A220s’ operations, is solely depending on its popularity. With demand, supply will always be created.


no, not the physical airports, the market is too small, airlines haven't served Lakeland and SGJ for years for good reason, the market isn't there, it would be hard to stimulate the market in those areas and convince people to fly into LAL instead of MCO or SFB

When Direct Air served Lakeland back in 2011-12, it proved that it could sustain air travel. It was on track to move 100K passengers when Direct Air filed for bankruptcy. This was done with very few, yet full flights which outpaced many other regional airports in the state with regular service.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue May 21, 2019 1:17 am

HeartofFlorida wrote:
sargester wrote:
B1168 wrote:

No one knows. Is EYW(Key West) too small? Yet it has commercial flights. Those airports’ commercialization, if capable of A220s’ operations, is solely depending on its popularity. With demand, supply will always be created.


no, not the physical airports, the market is too small, airlines haven't served Lakeland and SGJ for years for good reason, the market isn't there, it would be hard to stimulate the market in those areas and convince people to fly into LAL instead of MCO or SFB

When Direct Air served Lakeland back in 2011-12, it proved that it could sustain air travel. It was on track to move 100K passengers when Direct Air filed for bankruptcy. This was done with very few, yet full flights which outpaced many other regional airports in the state with regular service.


That is an intriguing example. These are the airports that Moxy can use to their profit.
 
HeartofFlorida
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue May 21, 2019 2:00 am

B1168 wrote:
HeartofFlorida wrote:
sargester wrote:

no, not the physical airports, the market is too small, airlines haven't served Lakeland and SGJ for years for good reason, the market isn't there, it would be hard to stimulate the market in those areas and convince people to fly into LAL instead of MCO or SFB

When Direct Air served Lakeland back in 2011-12, it proved that it could sustain air travel. It was on track to move 100K passengers when Direct Air filed for bankruptcy. This was done with very few, yet full flights which outpaced many other regional airports in the state with regular service.


That is an intriguing example. These are the airports that Moxy can use to their profit.

I hope so. Lakeland-Winter Haven is the largest metro in the country without regular service. On a related note, LAL is in talks with AA. https://www.theledger.com/news/20190520 ... al-flights
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Moxy's hubs?

Tue May 21, 2019 3:57 am

HeartofFlorida wrote:
B1168 wrote:
HeartofFlorida wrote:
When Direct Air served Lakeland back in 2011-12, it proved that it could sustain air travel. It was on track to move 100K passengers when Direct Air filed for bankruptcy. This was done with very few, yet full flights which outpaced many other regional airports in the state with regular service.


That is an intriguing example. These are the airports that Moxy can use to their profit.

I hope so. Lakeland-Winter Haven is the largest metro in the country without regular service. On a related note, LAL is in talks with AA. https://www.theledger.com/news/20190520 ... al-flights


Should I say, some service to CLT and MIA will most definitely be profitable, even more so if they can get subsidies.

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