gunnerman
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:15 pm

Air fares are only partly related to distance, they are set to make the most money. There are innumerable examples of a single flight or trip with hugely differing fares.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:15 pm

The more I think about this case (as well as the one mentioned by @MartijnNL above: AMS-SFO), the more I think it is not, in reality, just a matter of common sense and transparency for the consumer.

Indeed, by using this strategy on a large scale (i.e. grossly undercharging those routes where competition is intense), majors are able to foreclose the market by preventing the emergence of competitors. For this strategy to work, it must be coupled with a regulation prohibiting "hidden city" ticketing. Otherwise, German travellers will siphon off the cheap OSL-SEA seats available (because of the quickly full OSL-FRA narrowbody segment). The OSL-SEA price will then rise and the objective (sink the competition) can no longer be reached. The real loss is there.

For me, to combine a pricing policy as drastic as "ARN-AMS-SFO = $300 versus AMS-SFO = $1500" with tedious regulations is to bias the law of supply and demand. This strategy is a distortion of competition, bad for consumers in the long term. Making it illegal to cancel a whole ticket when a segment has not been used (as well as re-invoicing the ticket when the last segment is missing) would make these distortion of competition practices more difficult for airlines to put in place.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 pm

gunnerman wrote:
I never knew that one person could check in an entire group at a railway station, you certainly cannot do this at an airport. As there's a number of "flights" operated by trains in Europe, perhaps there are some other people doing exactly what your former colleague did.


You can if you use a machine to check-in. The machine doesn't know who's operating it, it just scans the passport that's put in it and then prints a boarding card. Of course it wouldn't work at a check-in desk. But in Brussels there are machines you can use for check-in.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
This means the connections in Stockholm were self-connections, they couldn't possibly have been on the same ticket.

Indeed I booked two separate tickets, as I wrote here earlier. A return ticket Amsterdam - Stockholm and a return ticket Stockholm - San Francisco via Amsterdam.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The possible disadvantage is that your luggage is not being forwarded. I guess you didn't have any checked luggage on this trip.

Indeed I didn't have any checked luggage. But I could have had. In which case I just would have planned more time between flights at Stockholm. KLM offers plenty of departures to choose from.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
In that case it was get off at Stockholm, join the boarding line and board the same aircraft again. How did the crew react when you flew straight back with them?

Which is precisely what I did. KL1109 in, KL1110 out. At the end of each flight they always announce: "We hope to see you onboard again soon." So this time I told them at the door: "See you in thirty minutes." The crew looked surprised, but in the end thought I had gotten both a nice deal and a very rewarding trip.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 pm

What am I saying? Of course one person can obtain multiple boarding passes at an airport (or online) but the major difference with a train is that you arrive landside and must then go through airport security.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:53 pm

sk736 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I must be missing something.
If I get on a bus with a ticket for A to C, but I choose to get off at B, no problem.
If I get on a train from A to C, but choose to get off at B, no problem.
If I get in a taxi and agree a price for A to C, but change my plans mid-journey, no problem (as long as I pay the agreed fare)

Your train analogy is incorrect, at least in the UK. If you buy a train ticket from A to C, you are not entitled to get off at B.

Are you sure about that?
I have done it many times.
Perhaps you can find a relevant quote from their conditions of carriage?

{waiting}

In the meantime, there's always this;

Break of journey
Break of journey is allowed on the outward and return portions of Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's validity code.
You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel on Off-Peak tickets
.....unless the ticket restriction for the journey you are making does not allow it.

Obviously the implication is that there are also some categories of ticket that do not enjoy this flexibility.
However, given that the staff at your preferred end-station might be employed by a different organisation, or that they regularly do not bother to check your ticket as you exit the premises, even if you have one of these special tickets, these restrictions are unlikely to be enforced.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_far ... 46590.aspx
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:59 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Your train analogy is incorrect, at least in the UK. If you buy a train ticket from A to C, you are not entitled to get off at B.

In The Netherlands you are completely free to get off at any station before you get to your final destination. But it wouldn't save you any money, as train fares are directly related to the distance travelled.
What a crazy practice in the UK! Who is stopping you from getting off at B? Why would you not be entitled to leave the train at B? What happens if you get off at B?

You are correct; it would be crazy... if it was true.
National Rail Enquiries wrote:
Break of journey
Break of journey is allowed on the outward and return portions of Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's validity code.
You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel on Off-Peak tickets
(unless the ticket restriction for the journey you are making does not allow it.)

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_far ... 46590.aspx
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
crownvic
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:11 am

The airlines seem to feel that they can just do whatever they want to do. Case in point, I had a business trip to SEA this past week on an airline that I usually do not fly. I purchased a nonrefundable First Class ticket. I had all intentions of going, as the trip was rather important. However, one of SEA's worst snow storms in years was bearing down and airlines began offering credits for future flying (but not refunds). Perhaps others disagree, but I think refunds should be offered, especially if the flights are knowingly going to be cancelled due to an anticipated large weather event. My original trip was an up and back in the same day. The last thing I wanted was to be stranded in a hotel room for who knows how many days. Now I am stuck with a fairly large credit with an airline I almost never fly with.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:01 am

sergegva wrote:
grossly undercharging those routes where competition is intense), majors are able to foreclose the market by preventing the emergence of competitors.


you've hit the nail on the head quite precisely.
This is how all the the majors on all the continents maintain stranglehold on high fares routes, control captive clientele and make future competition nearly impossible.
It is patently anti-consumer, anti-competition - and yet, the Airlines are given cover by regulation to enact one sided "contracts" - whereby they have virtually no enforceable obligations (save EU261).
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:09 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Except it's the other way around: you paid for a service you didn't use. And, in the end, the provider agreed to provide you with a discount if you buy the whole package.


So I guess all the people who buy a fixed line internet connection along with a phone line and a (bad) TV subscription should be sued in case they only use the internet out of the package they are paying in full right?
At what point is usage at an acceptable level in this case? One phone call a month plus one hour of TV?

You didn't understand. I'm not defending LH, on the contrary.

jetmatt777 said what the pax did was paying for something and using more service; I said it was the other way around, where the pax bought a whole package and used only a portion of it (as your analogy). And that resulted in the overall package being cheaper that a lesser package.


Yeap might have sounded like that, I do apologise. I know that we are on the same page in regards to the LH move.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:30 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:

So I guess all the people who buy a fixed line internet connection along with a phone line and a (bad) TV subscription should be sued in case they only use the internet out of the package they are paying in full right?
At what point is usage at an acceptable level in this case? One phone call a month plus one hour of TV?

You didn't understand. I'm not defending LH, on the contrary.

jetmatt777 said what the pax did was paying for something and using more service; I said it was the other way around, where the pax bought a whole package and used only a portion of it (as your analogy). And that resulted in the overall package being cheaper that a lesser package.


Yeap might have sounded like that, I do apologise. I know that we are on the same page in regards to the LH move.

No worries man, maybe I wasn't clear either.
 
buzzard302
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:07 pm

I do not see LH winning this, but what do I know. In my opinion, you have paid up front for a service and have no obligation to show up for that service. I don't see how this would be any different than a no show on the first leg of the flight. What if you get sick, family emergency, change of plans, etc. If airlines are allowed to sue customers for no show, who would ever book on that airline?

This is price manipulation by the airlines as mentioned earlier. Consumers have every right to be savvy about their purchase. If the airlines don't like it, figure out a better way to price. their
 
gunnerman
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:21 pm

The double standards of airlines are breathtaking. When they needed to sell their seats - but couldn't at the high IATA fares - they got round the rules by various means such as:
- selling through back-street travel agents using schemes such as waiving advance purchase fare rules to reduce prices and charging £1 for "accommodation" to sell low-price inclusive tour tickets for a package holiday.
- AC once actually sold YYZ-AMS-LGW (second leg on BA) at half the price of YYZ-AMS and turned a blind eye when passengers got off at AMS.
 
amax1977
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:27 pm

True story: I went to McDonald's for lunch few weeks ago. The Big Mac meal package which comes with fries and drink was ~$7. However, I only wanted the burger and the drink. I don't remember the exact number, but I remember if I ordered the burger and the drink only, I would have to pay more than the package meal which came with the fried potato. I saved myself some money and bought the meal that came with potato and didn't eat the fried potato. Did I save myself few pennies? Yes! Luckily there was a homeless dude was sitting outside and gave him the fried potatoes. But, if the homeless guy wasn't there, I would have disposed the fried potato. Would it be my fault? I don't believe so.

I'm so glad Lufthansa is not in food business. Otherwise probably they would forcibly stick the fries in my face!
 
amax1977
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:35 pm

This is what will happen:
1- LH will lose the case.
2- More people will learn about the hidden-city loop-hole thanks to LH's stupidity in publicizing the loop-hole.
3- More people will do the hidden-city ticketing because they saw LH couldn't sue the guy!
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:47 pm

crownvic wrote:
The airlines seem to feel that they can just do whatever they want to do. Case in point, I had a business trip to SEA this past week on an airline that I usually do not fly. I purchased a nonrefundable First Class ticket. I had all intentions of going, as the trip was rather important. However, one of SEA's worst snow storms in years was bearing down and airlines began offering credits for future flying (but not refunds). Perhaps others disagree, but I think refunds should be offered, especially if the flights are knowingly going to be cancelled due to an anticipated large weather event. My original trip was an up and back in the same day. The last thing I wanted was to be stranded in a hotel room for who knows how many days. Now I am stuck with a fairly large credit with an airline I almost never fly with.


Call your credit card company and dispute the charge for service not provided (assuming that you paid with a credit card).
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:56 pm

crownvic wrote:
The airlines seem to feel that they can just do whatever they want to do. Case in point, I had a business trip to SEA this past week on an airline that I usually do not fly. I purchased a nonrefundable First Class ticket. I had all intentions of going, as the trip was rather important. However, one of SEA's worst snow storms in years was bearing down and airlines began offering credits for future flying (but not refunds). Perhaps others disagree, but I think refunds should be offered, especially if the flights are knowingly going to be cancelled due to an anticipated large weather event. My original trip was an up and back in the same day. The last thing I wanted was to be stranded in a hotel room for who knows how many days. Now I am stuck with a fairly large credit with an airline I almost never fly with.

A simple call to the credit card company should solve that...
 
DLvsWN
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:10 am

I haven't seen anyone yet mention the party-line justification from the airlines' perspective: that allowing monopoly pricing on hub markets makes flights financially viable that otherwise might not be. A flight from SEA to CDG is a mix of nonstop flying at a premium and connection flying, with the connections generally at a discount. Some routes might be highly discounted if there is a lot of competition.

If you allow people to use the nonstop product at a heavy discount, you're either discouraging the airline from competing on connecting routes, or discouraging people willing to pay a premium for the nonstop product. In either case, SEA-CDG could easily hit the chopping block. The end result might wind up being fewer choices, less competition, higher fares overall. After all, who do you think is subsidizing the cheap SEA-CDG-XXX fares?

There's also a more cynical side to this entire narrative of course, but the point is fundamental--lots of hub flying is paid on the backs of these premium captive fares, and it's not inherently bad for airlines to crack down on fliers evading them.

I think taking a closer look at anti-trust immunity would be a much more fruitful way to look at saving money for hub fliers: the fact that there are essentially three "brands" of hubs around the world and the hubs themselves are now colluding with all the other hubs of the same brand to raise prices for all the fliers at all of the hubs simultaneously reeks of non-competition. The ATL flier has no benefit from the hubs in KLM and CDG when trying to fly to Europe; the serving airlines are all coordinating pricing among each other.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 am

AWACSooner wrote:
crownvic wrote:
The airlines seem to feel that they can just do whatever they want to do. Case in point, I had a business trip to SEA this past week on an airline that I usually do not fly. I purchased a nonrefundable First Class ticket. I had all intentions of going, as the trip was rather important. However, one of SEA's worst snow storms in years was bearing down and airlines began offering credits for future flying (but not refunds). Perhaps others disagree, but I think refunds should be offered, especially if the flights are knowingly going to be cancelled due to an anticipated large weather event. My original trip was an up and back in the same day. The last thing I wanted was to be stranded in a hotel room for who knows how many days. Now I am stuck with a fairly large credit with an airline I almost never fly with.

A simple call to the credit card company should solve that...


AEROFAN wrote:
Call your credit card company and dispute the charge for service not provided (assuming that you paid with a credit card).

Not sure you guys understand what "nonrefundable" and "Act of God" (weather falls under it) mean... Airline wasn't at fault in any way, shape or form; and a nonrefundable ticket is... nonrefundable...
 
ShanghaiNoon
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:36 am

A few years ago I booked a one-way ticket from YVR to PVG on MU with a dodgy Chinese travel agent. Due to a family emergency I had to postpone my flight by two weeks. When I tried to do this, I found that the travel agent had actually booked a flight to Hong Kong with a five-day layover in Shanghai, which was long enough that MU would not check my bags all the way through.
 
kruiseri
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:24 am

gunnerman wrote:
What am I saying? Of course one person can obtain multiple boarding passes at an airport (or online) but the major difference with a train is that you arrive landside and must then go through airport security.


Not at all airports. In many (if not most) airports in Europe you arrive to the departure lounge from Intra-Europe flights and certain other arrivals too. For example at my airport if you arrive from anywhere within the EU/EEA or US/Canada, there is no security between the arrival and your next flight.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:03 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
It appears the point is being missed by many posting here. The issue is not that the passenger failed to show up for a flight; it is that the passenger allegedly bought a fare which was sold on the condition of it being for a connection, with no intention of taking the connection.


The question however is if that condition is legal. Very likely it is not.


Exactly. In the Iberia case the judge concluded that passengers have no obligations other than to pay the fare. Passengers have no contractual obligation to catch a flight that they don't want to catch. Otherwise they could use the same argument to go after people that don't use the return portion of a ticket ("we lost money because you didn't pay our rip-off one-way fare").
 
sk736
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:09 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Well for the same reason the airlines don't like you doing it....sometimes longer distance tickets can be cheaper than shorter distance tickets.


But why would they charge more for a shorter distance? That doesn't make sense.

If they would implement such a system in the Netherlands it wouldn't work. Everyone, and I mean literally everyone, would cheat the system. It would be unholdable. Ticket check? Don't even think about it! Everyone would walk straight by the ticket checkers, nobody would take them serious. They may catch one or two people, but for every passenger they catch a hundred slip through.

That's why we have the system we have where you pay per distance traveled. It's easy and fair and for the most part everyone sticks to it.

Well that's rail privatisation for you! Nothing on our railways makes sense, least of all the crazy pricing and ticketing system. We even have websites now that can find you the cheapest way of getting from A to G via B, C, D, E and F without ever having to actually get off the train at any of those intermediate points...it might mean buying six separate tickets but it can still be cheaper than buying one ticket directly from A to G!
 
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sergegva
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:50 pm

DLvsWN wrote:
I haven't seen anyone yet mention the party-line justification from the airlines' perspective: that allowing monopoly pricing on hub markets makes flights financially viable that otherwise might not be. A flight from SEA to CDG is a mix of nonstop flying at a premium and connection flying, with the connections generally at a discount. Some routes might be highly discounted if there is a lot of competition.

If you allow people to use the nonstop product at a heavy discount, you're either discouraging the airline from competing on connecting routes, or discouraging people willing to pay a premium for the nonstop product. In either case, SEA-CDG could easily hit the chopping block. The end result might wind up being fewer choices, less competition, higher fares overall. After all, who do you think is subsidizing the cheap SEA-CDG-XXX fares?

There's also a more cynical side to this entire narrative of course, but the point is fundamental--lots of hub flying is paid on the backs of these premium captive fares, and it's not inherently bad for airlines to crack down on fliers evading them.

I think taking a closer look at anti-trust immunity would be a much more fruitful way to look at saving money for hub fliers: the fact that there are essentially three "brands" of hubs around the world and the hubs themselves are now colluding with all the other hubs of the same brand to raise prices for all the fliers at all of the hubs simultaneously reeks of non-competition. The ATL flier has no benefit from the hubs in KLM and CDG when trying to fly to Europe; the serving airlines are all coordinating pricing among each other.


This case is slightly different, since the very large price difference observed between both tickets concerns two routes with stopovers (OSL-FRA-SEA versus BER-FRA-SEA). Here, a strategy to fight a competitor also comes into play.

peterinlisbon wrote:

Exactly. In the Iberia case the judge concluded that passengers have no obligations other than to pay the fare.

To which judgment do you refer?
 
gunnerman
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:01 pm

kruiseri wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
What am I saying? Of course one person can obtain multiple boarding passes at an airport (or online) but the major difference with a train is that you arrive landside and must then go through airport security.


Not at all airports. In many (if not most) airports in Europe you arrive to the departure lounge from Intra-Europe flights and certain other arrivals too. For example at my airport if you arrive from anywhere within the EU/EEA or US/Canada, there is no security between the arrival and your next flight.

I was referring to connecting international flights. So, if you check in at a German railway station for a train journey to FRA for a connecting flight to, say, LHR, you'd need to go through security either at the railway station or FRA.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:18 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Not sure you guys understand what "nonrefundable" and "Act of God" (weather falls under it) mean... Airline wasn't at fault in any way, shape or form; and a nonrefundable ticket is... nonrefundable...

Doesn't matter whose fault it was...the airline canceled the flight...and said they wouldn't refund. They didn't provide you the service at the time you wanted them to provide it...thus you have recourse to dispute with your credit card.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Not sure you guys understand what "nonrefundable" and "Act of God" (weather falls under it) mean... Airline wasn't at fault in any way, shape or form; and a nonrefundable ticket is... nonrefundable...

Doesn't matter whose fault it was...the airline canceled the flight...and said they wouldn't refund. They didn't provide you the service at the time you wanted them to provide it...thus you have recourse to dispute with your credit card.

Airline had to cancel flight due to Act of God => per their contract (and most legal contracts), not the provider's fault.
Airline proposed to rebook or credit for future flight => per their contract, they do their best to maintain the schedule but might have to change it as required.
If the passenger declines, then there is nothing the airline can do: they fulfilled their contract (including reaccommodation as needed), customer decided otherwise.
Since the ticket was sold as non-refundable, then that clause applies.

I'd agree with you if the airline had said "bad weather, too bad so sad"; they did not do that, they tried to fulfill their contract. Customer cancelled due to personal reasons.
 
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dara88
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:14 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
It appears the point is being missed by many posting here. The issue is not that the passenger failed to show up for a flight; it is that the passenger allegedly bought a fare which was sold on the condition of it being for a connection, with no intention of taking the connection. A small quote from the article illustrates the situation quite well:

For example, a test booking made by The Independent for travel from Moscow to Paris CDG for September 2019 found a fare of £217. But a ticket using the same flight to the French capital but with an onward connection to Heathrow was only £72, less than one-third of the price.

So it is not simply a case of buying a product which they then don’t use, but rather buying a product at a price which they are not entitled to.

9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.

Indeed, a better analogy would be going to a bakery which is offering a 2-for-1 deal for participants in a marathon they are sponsoring, and pretending to be a runner so you can get a free bun, when in fact you are not a participant in the marathon at all.

V/F


Next time I will not no-show but being late to the gate and after they refused to board me I will just reject their offer to rebook me....
so technically I have intention and tried to board the second leg but they just don't allow me to do so....
sorry everyone else onboard the airline forced me to do so and delayed your trip.


Perfect idea :lol:
 
OlafW
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:40 am

sk736 wrote:
We even have websites now that can find you the cheapest way of getting from A to G via B, C, D, E and F without ever having to actually get off the train at any of those intermediate points...it might mean buying six separate tickets but it can still be cheaper than buying one ticket directly from A to G!

A bit off topic, but worth a heads-up: In Germany it has happened that people used two consecutive tickets on the same train as that was cheaper than on through-fare - for whatever reason. When "caught", it was ruled as fare evasion and that they had to finish one ticket by stepping out of the train and start the new one by re-entering. Absolute nonsense, but that's what can happen...

Back on topic: can someone say from experience, does it make a difference if you just don't show up, e.g. by leaving the airport directly, or if you tell the gate agent that you are voluntarily not boarding for whatever reason? I remember one time LH gave me a full refund on a nonrefundable ticket when I told them at the gate that due to a delay and a hotel booking that I couldn't confirm was still active, I would not take the flight, so as not to risk to be stranded away from home. But that was a simple return flight without connection.
 
directorguy
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:20 am

A few months ago, I needed to get from Strasbourg to Amsterdam, one way.
AF operated by HOP! was selling one-way for $700 per person on the day I wanted. A return ticket starting on that same day with a booked return a few weeks later was $200. A difference of $500 per person is HUGE, almost the price of a return TATL ticket. It's ridiculous the prices airlines sometimes charge.
 
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dangerhere
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:17 pm

directorguy wrote:
A few months ago, I needed to get from Strasbourg to Amsterdam, one way.
AF operated by HOP! was selling one-way for $700 per person on the day I wanted. A return ticket starting on that same day with a booked return a few weeks later was $200. A difference of $500 per person is HUGE, almost the price of a return TATL ticket. It's ridiculous the prices airlines sometimes charge.


I think that route is far more convenient and relatively faster door to door by train than plane 5.30 with TGV vs 3.30 direct flight, (incl airport travel ect). Would be cheaper than 200 USD walking up on the day. Certainly if I had €200 I would rather spend it on a comfortable high speed TGV than a bog standard crap airline like Joon.
 
directorguy
Posts: 1362
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:33 pm

dangerhere wrote:
directorguy wrote:
A few months ago, I needed to get from Strasbourg to Amsterdam, one way.
AF operated by HOP! was selling one-way for $700 per person on the day I wanted. A return ticket starting on that same day with a booked return a few weeks later was $200. A difference of $500 per person is HUGE, almost the price of a return TATL ticket. It's ridiculous the prices airlines sometimes charge.


I think that route is far more convenient and relatively faster door to door by train than plane 5.30 with TGV vs 3.30 direct flight, (incl airport travel ect). Would be cheaper than 200 USD walking up on the day. Certainly if I had €200 I would rather spend it on a comfortable high speed TGV than a bog standard crap airline like Joon.


Strasbourg to Amsterdam would entail a transfer in some station. I think Frankfurt or Cologne, or more commonly Paris (including switching stations in Paris). And the train wasn't that cheap either. I can't remember how much, but I was dead keen on flying.
There was a cheaper option that involved taking the train to CDG then flying to AMS, all ticketed on AF. But when traveling with family, suitcases etc convenience takes priority (to a certain extent).
Would you ever consider paying EUR 700 for a on-way between SXB and AMS?
 
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dangerhere
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:35 pm

Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:04 pm

directorguy wrote:
dangerhere wrote:
directorguy wrote:
A few months ago, I needed to get from Strasbourg to Amsterdam, one way.
AF operated by HOP! was selling one-way for $700 per person on the day I wanted. A return ticket starting on that same day with a booked return a few weeks later was $200. A difference of $500 per person is HUGE, almost the price of a return TATL ticket. It's ridiculous the prices airlines sometimes charge.


I think that route is far more convenient and relatively faster door to door by train than plane 5.30 with TGV vs 3.30 direct flight, (incl airport travel ect). Would be cheaper than 200 USD walking up on the day. Certainly if I had €200 I would rather spend it on a comfortable high speed TGV than a bog standard crap airline like Joon.


Strasbourg to Amsterdam would entail a transfer in some station. I think Frankfurt or Cologne, or more commonly Paris (including switching stations in Paris). And the train wasn't that cheap either. I can't remember how much, but I was dead keen on flying.
There was a cheaper option that involved taking the train to CDG then flying to AMS, all ticketed on AF. But when traveling with family, suitcases etc convenience takes priority (to a certain extent).
Would you ever consider paying EUR 700 for a on-way between SXB and AMS?


That's fair enough, if you prefer to fly instead. I can't imagine paying €700, it's madness! For an extra €186 you can be chauffeured centre to centre in a Mercedes-Benz E-Class!
 
ncflyer
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:09 pm

I think the gist of the argument in favor of the airlines is you are paying a fare to be routed from Origin to Destination. The fact that there is a stop to change planes, is "immaterial" to the pricing. and in fact, with weather or other delays the airline may route you through a different connecting point than the hidden city.

But what about this scenario--- it's very common pricing "loophole" for those of us who live in the interior of the USA. I'll use an example I had myself. CLE-CDG was $1700 a few years back, on United or really any other airline. (this was summer, pre-Icelandair). CLE-IAD purchased separately was $300 and IAD-CDG was $800--- stiff competition at Dulles I suppose. I recognize buying two tickets, the traveler assumes risk of missed connections, and may need to re-check luggage in IAD, but is it a violation of contract of carriage? United has determined that the fair value from CLE-CDG is $1700, not $1100.

Airports like BOS, IAD, YYZ have so much competition that these opportunities are very common, including to Asia.
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 3915
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm

ncflyer wrote:
But what about this scenario--- it's very common pricing "loophole" for those of us who live in the interior of the USA. I'll use an example I had myself. CLE-CDG was $1700 a few years back, on United or really any other airline. (this was summer, pre-Icelandair). CLE-IAD purchased separately was $300 and IAD-CDG was $800--- stiff competition at Dulles I suppose. I recognize buying two tickets, the traveler assumes risk of missed connections, and may need to re-check luggage in IAD, but is it a violation of contract of carriage? United has determined that the fair value from CLE-CDG is $1700, not $1100.


No, it isn't a violation of the contract.

The $ 600 price difference can be seen as a service fee and an insurance. For that money they provide the service of checking your luggage through and the insurance against missed connections. However if you don't want to take the service they offer and you don't want to be insured against missed connections, that choice is up to you. You're not obligated to make use of it.

I've self-connected quite a few times myself as well and saved a lot of money in doing so. Of course there's a risk involved, but so far I always made my connections. The amount of money I've saved by self-connecting so far should be enough to cover the expenses in case it goes wrong one day.

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