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wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:35 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Maybe my memory is fuzzy... a few times in the early-mid 2000s, I was lucky to fly JFK-LAX (and back), and JFK-SAN (and back) in J on the 767-223ERs in the early-mid 2000s, but didn't these seats (the ones that replaced the "Woolly Mammoths" in J, I mean) once have reading lights between seats? I seem to remember one flight with them, and another where they weren't there later on.

I thought the reading lights were only on the 777 in J and F. J had 2-3-2 and F had 2-2-2 on the 777 (1 extra seat per row per cabin)
Image
Image
Image


travelsonic wrote:
My favorite memory was flying in F on a flight from St. Louis to Kahului, Maui (STL-OGG) in March 2002. The aircraft was an ex-TWA 767-300, still in TWA's last livery, and with all the furnishings (which was to be expected, of course) - the seats appeared to be a variation of the Weber 7502s, only with the Ambassador Class cloth coverings instead of sheepskin/leather. Didn't they used to have VHS players built in that allowed you to play tapes? I seem to remember that being a thing with those seats...

This is all I have on the TWA 767 in my files- This was once it was converted to sleepers, and I was on the hunt for a used chair
Image


travelsonic wrote:
Looks like a ... mockup, but of what type? DC-10 was my initial thought, but upon looking closer, the windows look more 767-esque... but were 767s without the blue wall paneling being delivered by then? Either way, interesting perspective of the J (?) cabin legroom.
Here's an image from a 1994 timetable, ad for American's transcon Flagship Service with an image of the seat, and what looks like a mockup of the DC-10's F or J.


I think those are both mock-ups. The windows don't have shades and don't resemble any identifiable model right off the bat.

travelsonic wrote:
Also, it looks like the 24-seat F lasted on American's 767-200s through **AT LEAST** 1992 (and check out the 757-200's configuration from that time period!)

My parents got a time share in St. Martin (when the carribean was all the hype in the late 80s) and we flew the AA 757-200 every spring direct from JFK to St. Martin for 15 years before they sold it off. The cabin of the AA 757 remained unchanged from the time I was born in 1992 and flew in first class on my parents lap, until we stopped going 15 years later in 2007. I ended up flying to St. Thomas with friends in 2009 on a 757-200 and that also had the same interior. It became somewhat of an expectation! I always hated that they wanted you to use the seat cushions as flotation devices in coach (my parents would fly first class and throw us in coach a la home alone) when first class got life jackets!

On another note, I did some digging and came across some AA safety cards from the 80s. There is one from the 747SP (just to show the main deck blue seats), one from a 767-323 (which has the normal weber 6003 leather seats and is certainly a 767 due to the windows), one from an MD11 (which is the 6003 seat with sheepskin- but no way to tell if it is truly an MD11 as it is just the seat), and then the interesting one that caught my eye.
The fourth pic is from the original 767 luxury liner safety card from 1982/3. You can see the windows are clearly 767 with the silly blue splash and distinct shape, but the leather seats are so strange. I have never seen them before. They do not touch at the top when in the upright position like the weber 6003 seats do. They also have many leather tufts/layers on the seat back unlike the distinct 5 layers on the 6003. I am wondering if these are the seats that were delivered on the 767, or if they were just used for mock-ups until the initial 767s were delivered. I have seen last minute changes to cabins a hundred times, but I am unclear on this now..
Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:40 pm

Cody wrote:
I am confused about the American coach seats in the 1980s and have a couple of questions, but will tell a short story first. In 1986, I flew AA from IAD-DEN and back via ORD. I was on three MD-80s and one 727-200. Both types had the baby blue seats with beige rectangles and horizontal stripes grouped with beige seats with blue rectangles and horizontal stripes. By the way the first MD-80 I was on had Red.....SOLID RED cloth seats in First and the forward flight attendant jump seat was solid red as well. The rest of the planes that week had the beige leather seats without the wool. The 727 I was on had the cartoon cloud bulkhead in blue and grey. (Early 1980s had the same exact pattern in red and brown.) The MD-80 bulkhead was totally different. It sort of looked like an old, stained blanket stretched over the bulkhead. In fact, I thought it was stained until I realized the other two MD-80s I was on that same week had the same thing! I am looking at a photo of it right now so I am not imagining things.

In the late 90s I flew on a CCAir Jetstream 31 but it had a full American cloth interior. It looked almost exactly like the typical baby blue seats except it had an Aztec motif where the bars would have been seperated by little eagles that I think were red. It also had red horizontal pin stripes. Later I saw a photo of a DC-10 with the same cloth seats. From a distance they looked like the original blue rectangle seats.

So here is my confusion?

When was this interior introduced and what airplanes had it?


Based on my research, the DC10-30 introduced the beige cloth (which looked grey) with blue hashes, and this was in conjunction with the current beige/red fabric first class which adorned the DC10/727/747 of the 70s- but this occurred in the very early 1980s. I can see a 727 having the red cloth first and blue/beige cloth coach, but not an MD80- those were new planes for AA in the 80s and very likely would have been delivered with the new cabin design just like the 767 was- leather first and blue/beige alternating coach.
Image

Then in 1983, AA introduced a new cabin design which featured weber leather seats in first, and the alternating blue/beige coach seats with that very design from a few years earlier. The cabins were randomly designed between the two opposite color patterns (blue with beige hashes and beige with blue hashes).

DC10 Safety Card with Both Colors
Image

767 Mock-Up with Both Colors
Image

DC10 Cabin 1984 with Both Colors
Image


From what I could tell, the DC10 and 767 def got this random pattern, but as the 80s moved on, the pattern switched to all blue- and when the first 757s were delivered in 1989, they featured all blue cloth coach with the beige hashes, instead of the mixed cabin.

Here is a F100 cabin with the all blue
Image

Then AA updated the all blue to match the inner fabric of the J/F cabins (this is an md80)
Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:48 pm

Also notice in that bottom row of pics on the 767 safety card what appears to be a magazine holder - which'd make sense in the original 24-seat F config, as it would seem there is no bulhead between the 1L door, and 1 A/B
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:28 pm

Question: When in 83 did the interior we're discussing come about? According to airfleets.net, American's oldest MD-82 was delivered 4-5-1983.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Cody wrote:
In the late 90s I flew on a CCAir Jetstream 31 but it had a full American cloth interior. It looked almost exactly like the typical baby blue seats except it had an Aztec motif where the bars would have been seperated by little eagles that I think were red. It also had red horizontal pin stripes. Later I saw a photo of a DC-10 with the same cloth seats. From a distance they looked like the original blue rectangle seats.

So here is my confusion?

When was this interior introduced and what airplanes had it?



Sorry for some reason you can't edit things on this site after like no time, which makes no sense, and after my rant I more clearly saw your question. I thought the jetstream featured the same blue cabin of the era?
Image

The only one i remember having the aztec motif was the A300 test with video screens (which was deleted quick)
Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:33 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Question: When in 83 did the interior we're discussing come about? According to airfleets.net, American's oldest MD-82 was delivered 4-5-1983.

As I said- I believe the MD80 was the first to be delivered with the new cabins in 83. Then the rest followed (767, DC10, 747, 727).
Interestingly enough, the 767 was delivered in 1982 and the MD80 in 1983- so it is possible that the first 767s had different leather seats for a year..

Source:
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/custo ... rican.page

Also, they moved into the new facility in fort worth January 17, 1983 which is likely when they began the overhaul of the cabins along with major company HQ changes. They got a bond from DFW and leased the facility.
 
Cody
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:45 pm

[quote="wernerga3"

Based on my research, the DC10-30 introduced the beige cloth (which looked grey) with blue hashes, and this was in conjunction with the current beige/red fabric first class which adorned the DC10/727/747 of the 70s- but this occurred in the very early 1980s. I can see a 727 having the red cloth first and blue/beige cloth coach, but not an MD80- those were new planes for AA in the 80s and very likely would have been delivered with the new cabin design just like the 767 was- leather first and blue/beige alternating coach.[/quote]

I looked at my photos again of the original MD-80 bulkheads and made a startling discovery. I think American had two distinct cloud bulkheads at the same time. One being the cartoon-looking ones and the other a more realistic cumulous cloud picture used on the 767. The original MD-80s used the more realistic one, but they zoomed in very closely on the clouds. And some MD-80s got a close-up of the cloud itself which ended up looking like a faded, stained blanketed wall. Each plane seemed to have a different area of the picture in focus, so some you could make out were clouds, but others you couldn't tell. Sort of like puzzle pieces of a larger picture.

The blue seats that were introduced on the DC-10 and the later blue pyramid pattern with leather headrest had another interior introduced in between them, but it did not appear fleet-wide. That is the one I am wondering about. It was obviously made for AA (same eagle logo was on the seats) but was rarely seen.

Do you know the one I am referring to???

Also, did the economy section of the 747sp have that alternating baby blue and beige like the rest of the fleet?
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:10 pm

Cody wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Based on my research, the DC10-30 introduced the beige cloth (which looked grey) with blue hashes, and this was in conjunction with the current beige/red fabric first class which adorned the DC10/727/747 of the 70s- but this occurred in the very early 1980s. I can see a 727 having the red cloth first and blue/beige cloth coach, but not an MD80- those were new planes for AA in the 80s and very likely would have been delivered with the new cabin design just like the 767 was- leather first and blue/beige alternating coach.


I looked at my photos again of the original MD-80 bulkheads and made a startling discovery. I think American had two distinct cloud bulkheads at the same time. One being the cartoon-looking ones and the other a more realistic cumulous cloud picture used on the 767. The original MD-80s used the more realistic one, but they zoomed in very closely on the clouds. And some MD-80s got a close-up of the cloud itself which ended up looking like a faded, stained blanketed wall. Each plane seemed to have a different area of the picture in focus, so some you could make out were clouds, but others you couldn't tell. Sort of like puzzle pieces of a larger picture.

The blue seats that were introduced on the DC-10 and the later blue pyramid pattern with leather headrest had another interior introduced in between them, but it did not appear fleet-wide. That is the one I am wondering about. It was obviously made for AA (same eagle logo was on the seats) but was rarely seen.

Do you know the one I am referring to???

Also, did the economy section of the 747sp have that alternating baby blue and beige like the rest of the fleet?



I am still researching the 747 refresh and 747sp- The 747s were refreshed for a year before they were traded to PA for DC10s. They refreshed them and pushed them on the HI routes with an all coach main deck. I have been very unsucessful in finding any coach cabin pics of aa 747 from this era.

And I have only found the first class seat pics of the 747 sp- never the biz or coach seats. Also working on this.


I am not sure which seats you are referring to, but if there were red eagles on the seats I would think it was exclusive to american eagle and not american airlines (which i know is the same company, but technically it was separate)- Not sure on this one.
 
Cody
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:20 pm

Appreciate your efforts. That seat cover I am talking about was for sure on some of the widebodies. I am guessing it came out in the late 1980s. I do not know how to post pictures on here or I would show it to you.

Here is a discovery I recently made. The AirCal 737s and BAe146s were given the standard AA carpet and blue and beige seat covers, but retained the AirCal bulkheads.

Also, I hate to keep coming back to this, but after thinking about it, the MD 80 bulkhead coverings were simply the large picture used on the 767, cut up to fit the smaller MD-80 bulkheads. I assume the folks in Tulsa just got creative. As far as I know, only the 727 had the cartoon clouds.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:21 pm

Cody wrote:
It looked almost exactly like the typical baby blue seats except it had an Aztec motif where the bars would have been seperated by little eagles that I think were red. It also had red horizontal pin stripes...

Appreciate your efforts. That seat cover I am talking about was for sure on some of the widebodies. I am guessing it came out in the late 1980s. I do not know how to post pictures on here or I would show it to you.


I Found it

Look closely and see the eagles, red stripes, and aztec motif
Image

And maybe you are thinking of these seats on the DC10? (the ones on the bottom with the hashes)
Image
 
Cody
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:48 pm

Yes! That is the one and I guess I was mistaken...the eagles were darker blue and not red. Some jetstreams had it as well....that I promise you.


I may have seen an A300 with those seats and mistaken it for a "ten." So am I right in assuming that was strictly for Eagle planes and the A300????

Those red DC-10 seats on the safety card.....they had blueish purple ones as well that had that same diamond shape.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 pm

Cody wrote:
Yes! That is the one and I guess I was mistaken...the eagles were darker blue and not red. Some jetstreams had it as well....that I promise you.


I may have seen an A300 with those seats and mistaken it for a "ten." So am I right in assuming that was strictly for Eagle planes and the A300????

Those red DC-10 seats on the safety card.....they had blueish purple ones as well that had that same diamond shape.


yeah i posted this above- it is the A300 and had the same look- I think maybe that was the confusion- maybe this was a test fabric since I rarely saw it and it clearly didn't last long
Image

Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:27 pm

we still need to find the original 767 cabin photo!
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:16 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
we still need to find the original 767 cabin photo!

Also- this seat map seems like the 763 got non-sleeper seats (potentially the 6003 with sheepskin) which were wider but closer together given that they weren't sleepers..But it seems strange that they would fly the 200 and D10 with sleepers and the 763 without..

Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:19 am

Ugh, back when Geocities was a thing, there was a page on it from someone who was training to be a flight attendant for American, with TONS of great photos from inside their cabin mockups. Wish I could find it. ~_~
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:32 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Ugh, back when Geocities was a thing, there was a page on it from someone who was training to be a flight attendant for American, with TONS of great photos from inside their cabin mockups. Wish I could find it. ~_~



Wow- I came across an ultra rare AA 747 flight attendant training video which goes all over the cabin. A side note- while this is the official AA 747 launch cabin, AA leased their first 747 from Pan Am for the March 2, 1970 flight and it featured a Pan Am cabin (which was re-upholstered- I found a rare pic of this and will search for it again). Here is the rare video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6DBwJRxsSY


Notice the the upper deck lounge at 0:35 and the piano bar coach lounge in the rear at 1:13. Plus of course the dining swivel seats in the A-Zone cone at 6:03, and B-Zone at 7:13. And a cool fact was that the AA 747 seats in first and coach both featured inflatable lumbar support!
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:29 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Maybe my memory is fuzzy... a few times in the early-mid 2000s, I was lucky to fly JFK-LAX (and back), and JFK-SAN (and back) in J on the 767-223ERs in the early-mid 2000s, but didn't these seats (the ones that replaced the "Woolly Mammoths" in J, I mean) once have reading lights between seats? I seem to remember one flight with them, and another where they weren't there later on.


I think the 'refresh' J of 95/96 had the lights. Here is a pic of it:

Image


but as I posted above, I don't think the new J cabin on the 200s had the lights. Just the 777 J cabin.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:58 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
we still need to find the original 767 cabin photo!

Also- this seat map seems like the 763 got non-sleeper seats (potentially the 6003 with sheepskin) which were wider but closer together given that they weren't sleepers..But it seems strange that they would fly the 200 and D10 with sleepers and the 763 without..


I think I am getting closer to discovering the sheepskin non-sleeper seat mystery. Indulge me.. AA in 1992 offered essentially four type of craft in so far as cabin:

American Eagle Regional Turbo Props (All Blue Coach)
Image

American Airlines Luxury Jet Narrow Body Jets (Leather Weber 6003 First, Blue Coach)
Image

American Airlines Luxury Liner Wide Body Jets (Leather/Sheepskin Weber 6003 First, Blue Coach)
Image

American Airlines International Luxury Liner Sleeper Wide Body Jets (Leather/Sheepskin Weber 7502 First, Leather/Sheepskin Weber Biz, Blue Coach)
Image



That is my guess- Although I have never seen an A300 with sheepskin- only with all leather. And part of me felt that the MD11 and 763 being delivered later than the rest could also mean that those were the ones with the Weber 6003 sheepskin version. Still researching..
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:04 pm

wernerga3 wrote:

Notice the the upper deck lounge at 0:35 and the piano bar coach lounge in the rear at 1:13. Plus of course the dining swivel seats in the A-Zone cone at 6:03, and B-Zone at 7:13. And a cool fact was that the AA 747 seats in first and coach both featured inflatable lumbar support!


Also note the lower deck galley lifts at 7:35. Only AA, UA and QF had those.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=455

Demonstration of the food service dumbwaiter to the upper deck at 4:35.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=274
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
rbavfan
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:18 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
Hey all!

I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to airplane cabins and their changes over the years- particularly first class cabins. With all of that known, there is one cabin that is somewhat sentimental that I am having trouble tracking. The AA 767 which was delivered to AA in the early 1980s, and its interior changes over the years.

The first time I flew in first class was in 2007 when I flew LAX-JFK on an AA 767-200. It featured the old first class cabin with 9 seats (strangest layout I have ever studied) and the seats were Weber grey leather seats that I believe had been reupholstered from the previous sheepskin days. It was most likely the very end of that seat's era as the new non-fully-flat all business class seats would come in 2008.

Here is how I think it went, but any help and or photos would help put this to rest. It also gets confusing because they introduced the 767-300 along the way in all of this and that would end up having different cabins as I understand.

Here is a link of a photo I made with all the seats
https://imgur.com/a/YtTqaom

1982-1987: Grey Leather Weber Seats 2-2-2
1987-1992: Grey Leather & Sheepskin Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1992-1999: Grey Leather Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1999-2008: Dark Blue Leather & Fabric Sleepers 2-1-2
2008-2017: Blue & Gray Sleepers 2-2-2 (Strange non-fully-flat)
2017-Present: Blue & Gray Sleepers 1-2-1


Please school me- particularly on the early years!


So the 1980's seats you say "It was most likely the very end of that seat's era" then note they were replaced in 2008? 28 years is a long time for and end of life seat to hang on.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:40 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Notice the the upper deck lounge at 0:35 and the piano bar coach lounge in the rear at 1:13. Plus of course the dining swivel seats in the A-Zone cone at 6:03, and B-Zone at 7:13. And a cool fact was that the AA 747 seats in first and coach both featured inflatable lumbar support!


Also note the lower deck galley lifts at 7:35. Only AA, UA and QF had those.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=455

Demonstration of the food service dumbwaiter to the upper deck at 4:35.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=274


The ex-American 747 that NASA owns, converted into a shuttle transport craft, still retains the main deck First Class and spiral staircase, retained while still in service for NASA guests. The rest of the interior was gutted, apparently.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:57 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Notice the the upper deck lounge at 0:35 and the piano bar coach lounge in the rear at 1:13. Plus of course the dining swivel seats in the A-Zone cone at 6:03, and B-Zone at 7:13. And a cool fact was that the AA 747 seats in first and coach both featured inflatable lumbar support!


Also note the lower deck galley lifts at 7:35. Only AA, UA and QF had those.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=455

Demonstration of the food service dumbwaiter to the upper deck at 4:35.

http://youtu.be/y6DBwJRxsSY?t=274



Nice! I found these pictures on an ebay archive as well- They show the A-Zone dining chairs and the coach seats.

Image
Image


Now I am still looking for:

1) Original AA 767 cabin pics from 1982
2) Refreshed AA 747 cabin pics from 1983
3) AA 747SP Biz and Coach seat pics

Plus of course you know I am still trying to figure out how the weber 6003 sheepskin seats fit into things..
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:00 pm

rbavfan wrote:

So the 1980's seats you say "It was most likely the very end of that seat's era" then note they were replaced in 2008? 28 years is a long time for and end of life seat to hang on.


I don't know what this means- But let me explain what I meant: Those seats were featured for the last time in2008. It doesn't mean they were used for 28 years, and they were actually not the original 80s seats we came to discover. Those seats were introduced some time in the early 2000s along with the new J cabin on the 762- whereas the 763 and 772 got the new MD80 look blue seats in F and J instead of these leather ones (in the 9 seat F config)
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:18 pm

There used to be a site, Keystone Aviation, that sold furnishings and seats - including many AA coach, business, and first seats. The site is long gone, but the internet archive (archive.org) preserved a lot of pictures which I managed to download.

Note that the names and types used are just pulled from the site, and picture names.

First and Business Classes:
Weber 6002 - Doubles - MD-82 - All Leather
Image
Weber 6003 - Doubles - MD-82 - All Leather
Image
Weber 6003 - Doubles - DC-10 - All leather, PRESUMABLY with oxygen masks in the rear (though there was no rear photo)
Image
Weber 7502 - Double - 767 - All beige, with leather on top tuft, and sheepskin on the lower 2 tufts, and seat cushion.
Image
Weber 7502 - Double - 767 - Beige with red accent on top middle, sheepskin on lower 2 tufts.
Image
Weber 7502 - Triple - DC-10 Intl & Transcon Configurations, MD-11s
Image

Coach:
Burns BA-1 - Double - DC-10 - Blue with beige "Aztec" patterns, and red/beige stripes
Image
Burns BA-1 - Quadruple - DC-10 - Blue with beige "Aztec" patterns, and red/beige stripes
Image
PTC 940 - Quintuple - DC-10 & MD-11 - Blue with beige rectangles, and beige stripes
Image
PTC 940 - Triple - MD-82 - Blue with beige rectangles, and beige stripes
Image
Sicma 97 - Double - ATR-42 & ATR-72 - Blue with beige "Aztec" patterns, and red/beige stripes
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:24 pm

3 International Flagship Service guide/ad (not sure if the Domestic 767 pic is actually part of the IFS guide, but it seems to show the original 762 config).
Note the Weber 6003s with the sheepskin tufts are VERY prominent in the first pic, and in the background of the 2nd pic.

Image

Image

Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:39 pm

travelsonic wrote:
There used to be a site, Keystone Aviation, that sold furnishings and seats - including many AA coach, business, and first seats. The site is long gone, but the internet archive (archive.org) preserved a lot of pictures which I managed to download.


Very nice, but a few things:

travelsonic wrote:
Weber 7502 - Double - 767 - All beige, with leather on top tuft, and sheepskin on the lower 2 tufts, and seat cushion.
Image
Weber 7502 - Triple - DC-10 Intl & Transcon Configurations, MD-11s
Image

That top "tuft" is an adjustable leather headrest, not really a seat-back tuft. And for the 3 across seat, those were the J seats on DC10 and MD11 only. Strange thing is that the original J seats were pretty much identical to the F seats- I guess the only difference was the recline and slightly narrower (if even).

travelsonic wrote:
Weber 7502 - Double - 767 - Beige with red accent on top middle, sheepskin on lower 2 tufts.
Image

It's interesting how AA re-did the J seat in 95/96; The cushion tufted backs had leather sides and a slim sheepskin cover over the front (as if the old sheepskin pieces were just covered over with leather/sheepskin covers). The 7502 for F and originally J (above) had two large cushion tufted backs which were all sheepskin- look closely at the sides of both; Plus the J seats got the red headrests, but I still have never seen an F seat with them.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:45 pm

travelsonic wrote:
3 International Flagship Service guide/ad (not sure if the Domestic 767 pic is actually part of the IFS guide, but it seems to show the original 762 config).
Note the Weber 6003s with the sheepskin tufts are VERY prominent in the first pic, and in the background of the 2nd pic.


Extraordinary work sir! That third pic absolutely shows the launch 762 seats which were separated at the top unlike the weber 6003! You can tell its a 762 by the windows. The other pics with the weber 6003 with sheepskin appear to be on the DC10 or MD11 (indicated by the windows and the small plane on the bottom of the page)- which is interesting because in one of the pictures there is clearly a leg rest piece- which I do not remember ever seeing other than on the 747sp...

Also- I remember flying flagship first and getting a box of chocolates at the end. I thought I was special but I guess not!
Last edited by wernerga3 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:49 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
Very nice, but a few things:

travelsonic wrote:
Weber 7502 - Double - 767 - All beige, with leather on top tuft, and sheepskin on the lower 2 tufts, and seat cushion.
Image
Weber 7502 - Triple - DC-10 Intl & Transcon Configurations, MD-11s
Image

That top "tuft" is an adjustable leather headrest.


I thought that was the case, but the over-analytical part of me was unsure.



The sheepskin 6003s very much appear to take place in a DC-10. Look carefully at the pic with the person resting, and note the metal protruding out - interesting footrest design
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:53 pm

travelsonic wrote:
I thought that was the case, but the over-analytical part of me was unsure.



Here is more of the 6003 with sheepskin- These are from movies; I only know the second one which is home alone 2- Look closely, doesn't it look like they are sitting on a sheepskin seat cover cushion, and that it is not integrated into the seat back? I always wondered if this was a separate promotional picture which was after the fact and they had to improvise. I'm over analytical..
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:58 pm

I think the ad scans I posted date back to 1985 or 1986. the second picture shows someone holding a ticket/boarding pass jacket with this specific design on it (from the looks of it):
Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:59 pm

travelsonic wrote:

The sheepskin 6003s very much appear to take place in a DC-10. Look carefully at the pic with the person resting, and note the metal protruding out - interesting footrest design


Don't know if you've seen these rare pics, but the 747sp had the same sleeper design (as did pan am and twa at the time)

Image
Image
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:03 pm

Also, if you look at the HOME ALONe behind the scenes videos (on YouTube) they talk with Kate O'Hara in brief snippets while sitting in these 6003s with the sheepskin

https://youtu.be/p7FcHntn4LI

1 minute 42 in, when she turns her head, going "hello?" the perspective shows the center armrest, and what looks like a fairly wide side armrest compared to the standard 6003s.

EDIT: Having seen the pics of the 747SP sleeper seats, I feel like these seats used in the HOME ALONE, HOME ALONe 2 sets, and in the IFS ad scans I posted, are the same make (just ... not blue like the 747 ones).
Last edited by travelsonic on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:04 pm

travelsonic wrote:
I think the ad scans I posted date back to 1985 or 1986. the second picture shows someone holding a ticket/boarding pass jacket with this specific design on it (from the looks of it):


That makes sense- since I don't think the 7502 design debuted until 1987
Image

And this pic is from 1992 when they started using the 762 for transcon instead of the DC10 (which explains why the DC10 had the old weber 6003 sleepers pre 1987)
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:09 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
And this pic is from 1992 when they started using the 762 for transcon instead of the DC10


Well, along with the DC-10s - I remember the last time I was on a DC-10 was actually JFK-LAX in Feb. of 1999, my first trip alone with my older bro to visit my grandma. To make it easier to deplane and meet my cousin who was meeting us at the gate at LAX, they were gonna temporarily move us from coach to First Class, but either there was no room, they had trouble getting our bag out, or what,ever, and we didn't end up moving.

On the way back, we were on a 767-323ER, interestingly - I still remember the tail # to this day, N370AA.

The Coach seats were of an interesting design though - they were the PTC 940s, but they had winged headrests like those on the interior design that came after, only held on with Velcro. I remember mine coming off very often, and being very annoyed by this.
Last edited by travelsonic on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:10 pm

travelsonic wrote:

EDIT: Having seen the pics of the 747SP sleeper seats, I feel like these seats used in the HOME ALONE, HOME ALONe 2 sets, and in the IFS ad scans I posted, are the same make (just ... not blue like the 747 ones).


Good find on the video- but while they might be the same seat, notice they have a different amount of tufts- also the SP seat has a tufted seat bottom cushion and the other one does not.. So it's more than color.

Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:12 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:

EDIT: Having seen the pics of the 747SP sleeper seats, I feel like these seats used in the HOME ALONE, HOME ALONe 2 sets, and in the IFS ad scans I posted, are the same make (just ... not blue like the 747 ones).


Good find on the video- but while they might be the same seat, notice they have a different amount of tufts- also the SP seat has a tufted seat bottom cushion and the other one does not.. So it's more than color.

Image


True, true, good catch!
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:13 pm

There seemed to be a lot of variations of these seats in such a small period of time.
Last edited by travelsonic on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:14 pm

travelsonic wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
And this pic is from 1992 when they started using the 762 for transcon instead of the DC10


Well, along with the DC-10s - I remember the last time I was on a DC-10 was actually JFK-LAX in Feb. of 1999, my first trip alone with my older bro to visit my grandma. To make it easier to deplane and meet my cousin who was meeting us at the gate at LAX, they were gonna temporarily move us from coach to First Class, but either there was no room, they had trouble getting our bag out, or what,ever, and we didn't end up moving.

On the way back, we were on a 767-323ER, interestingly - I still remember the tail # to this day, N370AA.

The Coach seats were of an interesting design though - they were the PTC 940s, but they had winged headrests like those on the interior design that came after, only held on with Velcro. I remember mine coming off very often, and being very annoyed by this.

EDIT: And that top down view of the 747SP sleeper seat, on top of giving a great top down view of the carpet I can use for a game map re-creation of American Airlines 1980s-era aircraft, makes me wonder how they were stowed.


Yeah the DC10 kept the 7502 until the end of its time with AA- but they appeared to get an updated sheepskin toward the end which was less wooly
Image

As for the stowage of the foot rest, if it was like the Pan Am sleeperette seat i researched, it had metal bars that extended out of the bottom of the seat, and the foot rest was on a swivel like system which had a metal wrap around bar that folded out under it to support it.

EDIT: I found the 1979 Pan Am operational bulletin of how the seat worked:
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:32 pm

Look at this oldish Apple ad for the 12/17" Apple Powerbook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvbuwfawqcc

Looks like the airplane set they put together for the ad use a variation of the sheepskin 6003s (a SINGLE-seat variation of the sheepskin 6003s to boot!), AS WELL AS non-sheepskin 6003s (including ones pulled off American DC-10s as indicated by the seatback oxygen mask compartment door visible briefly in one shot).
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:33 pm

travelsonic wrote:
There seemed to be a lot of variations of these seats in such a small period of time.


Yeah I think the 6003 was offered in:

leather non-sleeper (F100 luxury jet, 727 luxury jet, MD80 luxury jet, 757 luxury jet, A300 luxury liner, 762 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin non-sleeper (DC10 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper (MD11 intl luxury liner, 763 intl luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper premium (747SP)

Plus:
leather/sheepskin sleeper 7502 (DC10 intl/transcon luxury liner, 762 intl/transcon luxury liner, later MD11s)

What the heck were they thinking???
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:38 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Look at this oldish Apple ad for the 12/17" Apple Powerbook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvbuwfawqcc

Looks like the airplane set they put together for the ad use a variation of the sheepskin 6003s (a SINGLE-seat variation of the sheepskin 6003s to boot!), AS WELL AS non-sheepskin 6003s (including ones pulled off American DC-10s as indicated by the seatback oxygen mask compartment door visible briefly in one shot).


That looks like an "aero-mockups" set- I recognized it by the single sheepskin sleeper seats (which i think were only on the initial 763s) in the center and the leather on the outside- Notice the front two outer rows are leather with the sleeper legs! I don't think AA ever used one like that. Only the sheepskin seats got the sleeper legs I think- Unless that is the mysterious 1983 sleeper seat featured only on the upper deck of the 747 before they were traded away! I always thought it was crazy that they had normal first class downstairs, and sleeper first class upstairs! I never saw two of the same classes on AA before being different!
Image
Image

Image
Last edited by wernerga3 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
travelsonic
Posts: 108
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:43 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:
There seemed to be a lot of variations of these seats in such a small period of time.


Yeah I think the 6003 was offered in:

leather non-sleeper (F100 luxury jet, 727 luxury jet, MD80 luxury jet, 757 luxury jet, A300 luxury liner, 762 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin non-sleeper (DC10 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper (MD11 intl luxury liner, 763 intl luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper premium (747SP)

Plus:
leather/sheepskin sleeper 7502 (DC10 intl/transcon luxury liner, 762 intl/transcon luxury liner, later MD11s)

What the heck were they thinking???


Not to mention variations with phones in the seat backs (Fokker 100s), tray tables in the side armrest instead of the middle console (again I think Fokker 100 - in 2003 I flew to ORD (and then to LAX), with the leg to ORD being on a Fokker 100, and distinctly remember the tray table being in the side armrest.

Here is a very strange one: Once flying OGG-LAX, March 2002 on a 757, I also distinctly remember a variation of the 6003s with a reminder to stow footrests before landing sewn in, despite them not having any footests. Was it possible that the 6003s with sheepskin and footrests were at one point remodeled to have the same design as non-sheepskin 6003s, with the footests removed (but without the reminder being removed)?

If the conversion was a thing, explaining how they got on a 757 wouldn't be hard - the 2004 CNBC "A Week in the Life At American Airlines" documentary mentions that seats get pulled out during heavy C checks... maybe freshly repaired ones get swapped in during this time?
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:49 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:
Look at this oldish Apple ad for the 12/17" Apple Powerbook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvbuwfawqcc

Looks like the airplane set they put together for the ad use a variation of the sheepskin 6003s (a SINGLE-seat variation of the sheepskin 6003s to boot!), AS WELL AS non-sheepskin 6003s (including ones pulled off American DC-10s as indicated by the seatback oxygen mask compartment door visible briefly in one shot).


That looks like an "aero-mockups" set- I recognized it by the single sheepskin sleeper seats (which i think were only on the initial 763s) in the center and the leather on the outside- Notice the front two outer rows are leather with the sleeper legs! I don't think AA ever used one like that. Only the sheepskin seats got the sleeper legs I think- Unless that is the mysterious 1983 sleeper seat featured only on the upper deck of the 747 before they were traded away! I always thought it was crazy that they had normal first class downstairs, and sleeper first class upstairs! I never saw two of the same classes on AA before being different!
Image
Image

Image


First shot definitely had lots of non-sheepskin 6003s.

Second shot is quite interesting - the seat pairs look like another variation of the sheepskin 6003s - 5 tufts like the HOME ALONE seats, and IFS ads, but without footrests. The center seat is very interesting too - the same blocky footrests seen in the 747 and IFS ad photos, 4 tufts like the 747 pictures, yet kind of tapered on the sides, like the seats pictured in early 767ER safety card photos (except the ones in the aforementioned safety card have no sheepskin + and more "ridges"/"tufts")
Last edited by travelsonic on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:50 pm

travelsonic wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:
There seemed to be a lot of variations of these seats in such a small period of time.


Yeah I think the 6003 was offered in:

leather non-sleeper (F100 luxury jet, 727 luxury jet, MD80 luxury jet, 757 luxury jet, A300 luxury liner, 762 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin non-sleeper (DC10 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper (MD11 intl luxury liner, 763 intl luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper premium (747SP)

Plus:
leather/sheepskin sleeper 7502 (DC10 intl/transcon luxury liner, 762 intl/transcon luxury liner, later MD11s)

What the heck were they thinking???


Here is a very strange one: Once flying OGG-LAX, March 2002 on a 757, I also distinctly remember a variation of the 6003s with a reminder to stow footrests before landing sewn in, despite them not having any footests. Was it possible that the 6003s with sheepskin and footrests were at one point remodeled to have the same design as non-sheepskin 6003s, with the footests removed (but without the reminder being removed)?


I was certain the A300 never came with a sheepskin sleeper option as I only ever saw it with the leather non-sleeper. I wonder if those had the same warning on them indicating that they were also reupholstered. But it just doens't make sense as they were using sheepskin through the 90s so why take it out of the wide bodys at all? Maintenance? And if one more person tells me people sweat on them and that is why they were deleted I will scream. People aren't naked in the seats!
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:55 pm

travelsonic wrote:

First shot definitely had lots of non-sheepskin 6003s.

Second shot is quite interesting - the seat pairs look like another variation of the sheepskin 6003s - 5 tufts like the HOME ALONE seats, and IFS ads, but without footrests. The center seat is very interesting too - the same blocky footrests seen in the 747 and IFS ad photos, 4 tufts like the 747 pictures, yet kind of tapered on the sides, like the seats pictured in early 767ER safety card photos (except the ones in the aforementioned safety card have no sheepskin + and more "ridges"/"tufts")


Notice a few more things:

Those non-sheepskin 6003s in the first shot with leg rests appear to have leg rests like the later 7502- rather than the 6003 extendable chinsy 70s looking legrest..

Also, for the second shot, good point- but I think those sheepskin/leather without legrests were indeed used in the standard operation DC10 (non transcon or intl)- as it featured 6 rows just like the movie. I think this was the only plane to get this variation as the MD11/763/SP got the sleeper 6003, and the transcon/intl 762/DC10 got the 7502.. See the pattern? The leg rest 6003 model would need a lot of room to extend and would work better with the 3/4 row MD11 and 763 than the 6 row standard route DC10.

Adding on that - it makes sense that they were on a standard route 2 cabin DC10 in home alone 2 as they were flying ORD-JFK and ORD-MIA- all completely possible on a sheepskin non sleeper 6003 standard route DC10!


Also- that single weber 6003 with sheepskin in the second photo with 4 tufts in theory could have been one of the 747 main floor seats as there were two single seats in the front of the plane- but not sure what the 1983 747 first class looked like as I have been on the hunt hard- even the AA museum and Boeing!
Last edited by wernerga3 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:55 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Yeah I think the 6003 was offered in:

leather non-sleeper (F100 luxury jet, 727 luxury jet, MD80 luxury jet, 757 luxury jet, A300 luxury liner, 762 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin non-sleeper (DC10 luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper (MD11 intl luxury liner, 763 intl luxury liner)
leather/sheepskin sleeper premium (747SP)

Plus:
leather/sheepskin sleeper 7502 (DC10 intl/transcon luxury liner, 762 intl/transcon luxury liner, later MD11s)

What the heck were they thinking???


Here is a very strange one: Once flying OGG-LAX, March 2002 on a 757, I also distinctly remember a variation of the 6003s with a reminder to stow footrests before landing sewn in, despite them not having any footests. Was it possible that the 6003s with sheepskin and footrests were at one point remodeled to have the same design as non-sheepskin 6003s, with the footests removed (but without the reminder being removed)?


I was certain the A300 never came with a sheepskin sleeper option as I only ever saw it with the leather non-sleeper.


I'd imagine their 3-class Intl. config must have had it at one point.
This config, rightmost of the 2 A300 configs)
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:59 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
Those non-sheepskin 6003s in the first shot with leg rests appear to have leg rests like the later 7502- rather than the 6003 extendable chinsy 70s looking legrest..


Woah, nice catch - I did not notice the footrests in the first row of seats.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:00 am

travelsonic wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
travelsonic wrote:

Here is a very strange one: Once flying OGG-LAX, March 2002 on a 757, I also distinctly remember a variation of the 6003s with a reminder to stow footrests before landing sewn in, despite them not having any footests. Was it possible that the 6003s with sheepskin and footrests were at one point remodeled to have the same design as non-sheepskin 6003s, with the footests removed (but without the reminder being removed)?


I was certain the A300 never came with a sheepskin sleeper option as I only ever saw it with the leather non-sleeper.


I'd imagine their 3-class Intl. config must have had it at one point.
This config, rightmost of the 2 A300 configs)


Yeah that seat map def shows a 7502 setup for the A300 in 2-1-2. 7502= sheepskin. I stand corrected!

EDIT: I found the other page of that brochure from 2000
The 777 was brand spakin new and had the 2-2-2 sleeper config. They would later get the flagship suites within a few years!
Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:07 am

I still need to see more pics of the initial 762 cabin. Plus any pics of the 747 refresh and 747sp cabins!
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:10 am

Another Aero Mockup set photo - with the odd hybrid non-sheepskin 6003s with the 7502-styled footrests:
Image

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