masgniw
Topic Author
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he did

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:28 pm

https://abc7.com/travel/american-airlin ... a/5144475/

How did this happen? Is he telling the truth? Did AA really lose track of him?
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2110
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:37 pm

Irrespective of whether he showed up for 1st flight or not, be must be allowed to board 2nd flight as long as he paid for it
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3914
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Irrespective of whether he showed up for 1st flight or not, be must be allowed to board 2nd flight as long as he paid for it


That's not true. Most contract of carriage explicitly state that you must show up for previous legs or else your subsequent legs will be canceled.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
masgniw
Topic Author
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:41 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Irrespective of whether he showed up for 1st flight or not, be must be allowed to board 2nd flight as long as he paid for it


Most carriers (AA) included, will automatically cancel your 2nd leg if you fail to show up for the 1st. It's written into the carriage contract: https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-servic ... compliance
 
SwissCanuck
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:06 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:43 pm

This obviously happens more than anyone would like to admit.

The evidence is simple, and I'm sure I'm not alone at having seen it. With well over 500 flights under my belt, I can't count the number of times people hold boarding cards for the same seat. Easily explained away, seat change since print right? That follows right until you have a "manually" boarded flight. By "manual" I mean keyboard instead of scanner, not paper. This is often done by entering the seat number. "Board 11E" I guess. I've literally seen gate agents doing this, then I've gotten on the plane and there's two people fighting over 11E. Obviously 11E was boarded twice! And apparently (the/some) system(s) don't beep and say, "Hey, 11E is already boarded you klutz!"

Because two 11Es are sitting there in the aisle.

Which means that even though 11E-prime got moved to 22D, 22D was never "boarded" electronically. 22D is standing in the aisle and there is no trace. Flight attendants or gate agent say "23F is free take that!" and the plane, already late, leaves. Did the gate agent really go back and board 22D, now sitting in 23F? I doubt it.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2101
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:50 pm

^ Exactly. Or you can fly IB, where a seat "assignment" is merely a probability.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3921
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:50 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
That's not true. Most contract of carriage explicitly state that you must show up for previous legs or else your subsequent legs will be canceled.


However in Europe there are several court cases going on about whether such a carriage is legal. It could very well be declared illegal, in which case airlines are no longer allowed to cancel the rest of the booking if one leg is missed.

Norwegian is already ahead of this as they just allow you to skip any leg you want without canceling the rest.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1114
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:56 pm

I’m surprised this didn’t get taken care of at the airport when he was headed home and escalated... this happened to me twice but fortunately wasn’t a big deal to resolve, the agents at ICN messed up when processing an onboard upgrade from J to f, fortunately the lounge staff at DFW was able to fix the connection.... also, during an OSO at LGA I got dropped from a YYZ flight, my return had an aruk protecting it so I just had to send copies of the boarding pass into aadvantage..
1.4mm and counting...
 
Flightguy123
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:02 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
This obviously happens more than anyone would like to admit.

The evidence is simple, and I'm sure I'm not alone at having seen it. With well over 500 flights under my belt, I can't count the number of times people hold boarding cards for the same seat. Easily explained away, seat change since print right? That follows right until you have a "manually" boarded flight. By "manual" I mean keyboard instead of scanner, not paper. This is often done by entering the seat number. "Board 11E" I guess. I've literally seen gate agents doing this, then I've gotten on the plane and there's two people fighting over 11E. Obviously 11E was boarded twice! And apparently (the/some) system(s) don't beep and say, "Hey, 11E is already boarded you klutz!"

Because two 11Es are sitting there in the aisle.

Which means that even though 11E-prime got moved to 22D, 22D was never "boarded" electronically. 22D is standing in the aisle and there is no trace. Flight attendants or gate agent say "23F is free take that!" and the plane, already late, leaves. Did the gate agent really go back and board 22D, now sitting in 23F? I doubt it.


You are completely right on most everything on this. As experience has taught me as a gate agent for the US3, you have to verify that the name matches that of one on the manifest. Simply done by printing out the names and seat assignments of the passengers you are missing. At this point, you would inform the passenger in the aisle that 22D is their seat and then mark them on manually before the flight departs. Having the plane depart with an inaccurate count is something airlines would never want or put in their standard practice.
This LAX incident could have been caused by the gate agent checking to see if the pax was on on the original seat for SJC-LAX. If the passenger moved or did not sit in the right seat that was assigned, the gate agent might assume they are not onboard and then the count error could have happened. This is extremely hard to keep track of besides making and double checking that each pass is scanned at the gate reader. Makes it even harder if the flight is wide open.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3238
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:40 pm

masgniw wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Irrespective of whether he showed up for 1st flight or not, be must be allowed to board 2nd flight as long as he paid for it


Most carriers (AA) included, will automatically cancel your 2nd leg if you fail to show up for the 1st. It's written into the carriage contract: https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-servic ... compliance

Doesn’t always happen though, and I can speak first hand with AA.

I was scheduled to fly BDL-LAX-LAS in October with a LAS-DFW-BDL return. Something happened where I missed the LAX-LAS flight and I had to buy a separate ticket on WN to get there the same day. I kept checking to see if my return was cancelled, but when I showed you up a few days later I was able to take the return without a problem. They clearly knew I wasn’t on the LAX-LAS leg because I didn’t get miles, yet did for the other 3.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2103
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:48 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
This obviously happens more than anyone would like to admit.

The evidence is simple, and I'm sure I'm not alone at having seen it. With well over 500 flights under my belt, I can't count the number of times people hold boarding cards for the same seat. Easily explained away, seat change since print right? That follows right until you have a "manually" boarded flight. By "manual" I mean keyboard instead of scanner, not paper. This is often done by entering the seat number. "Board 11E" I guess. I've literally seen gate agents doing this, then I've gotten on the plane and there's two people fighting over 11E. Obviously 11E was boarded twice! And apparently (the/some) system(s) don't beep and say, "Hey, 11E is already boarded you klutz!"

Because two 11Es are sitting there in the aisle.

Which means that even though 11E-prime got moved to 22D, 22D was never "boarded" electronically. 22D is standing in the aisle and there is no trace. Flight attendants or gate agent say "23F is free take that!" and the plane, already late, leaves. Did the gate agent really go back and board 22D, now sitting in 23F? I doubt it.


I was an agent for a few years before there were gate readers and now barcode scanners. The above might have happened to me <10 times in ~3 years. And yes when I was queuing the pax as ON, it will alert if you've already boarded someone for the same seat. It really isn't that difficult to queue seats manually. If you verify the names as you are queuing them, you'd see any discrepancies. Sometimes I didn't have the luxury of queuing each of them right when I pulled them (i.e. computer down, someone else using computer, hurried boarding on a late flight, etc.). That was usually when issues would occur. We would always verify the final count with the FA. If it was off (or if dupe seats), we'd print out the manifest and then go on board to figure it out. Often times it ended up being because someone accidentally "un"checked someone in, but they still had the old boarding pass.

Even back in those days, if you didn't show for the outbound, the return would be cancelled. If the customer showed up later, you can see in the PNR the later segments dropped when they missed their first flight. Back in those days we would usually give the pax the benefit of the doubt and rebook them. Of course, airlines had much lower load factors back then...nowadays that's not always a possibility.

Somehow we managed to fly many decades without current tech. Oh the humanity! Seriously though, it is pretty hard to screw it up these days with all the tech, yet it still happens.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
MO11
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:07 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
masgniw wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Irrespective of whether he showed up for 1st flight or not, be must be allowed to board 2nd flight as long as he paid for it


Most carriers (AA) included, will automatically cancel your 2nd leg if you fail to show up for the 1st. It's written into the carriage contract: https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-servic ... compliance

Doesn’t always happen though, and I can speak first hand with AA.

I was scheduled to fly BDL-LAX-LAS in October with a LAS-DFW-BDL return. Something happened where I missed the LAX-LAS flight and I had to buy a separate ticket on WN to get there the same day. I kept checking to see if my return was cancelled, but when I showed you up a few days later I was able to take the return without a problem. They clearly knew I wasn’t on the LAX-LAS leg because I didn’t get miles, yet did for the other 3.


If you misconnect (or it looks like you did), then the unused segment becomes "XM", and the remaining segments aren't canceled.
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:59 pm

I had an odd experience boarding a United flight last year where I scanned my boarding pass and the scanner beeped and turned green like everything was ok, except some other person's name showed up on the LCD display. I thought it seemed strange, but didn't think much of it and boarded the flight. After we were all onboard the gate agent came onboard and announced "Yflyer, if you are onboard please ring your call button". So apparently even though I scanned my boarding pass, the system hadn't actually recorded that I had boarded. Thankfully they caught the error and corrected it once they confirmed that I was onboard; I assume if I hadn't my onward connection would have gotten canceled.

This was on an interline connection between HA and UA, in other words I checked in with HA and had a HA boarding pass for my UA flight. I'm guessing there must have been some kind of glitch between the two airlines' systems that led to this error.
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:08 pm

Does AA ever have domestic round trips that cost less than if you purchased 2 one way tickets (such as if you have a Saturday night stay)? I knew it used to be common, but personally haven't seen it in awhile.

Assuming there isn't a "round trip discount," why not just give the pax the benefit of the doubt? It's not like they "missed" one leg in an attempt to get a hidden city deal.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:42 am

Usually the benefit is a nonstop vs connecting flight. Say DFW-OMA is $350 rt but MAF-OMA is $250.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:06 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
That's not true. Most contract of carriage explicitly state that you must show up for previous legs or else your subsequent legs will be canceled.


However in Europe there are several court cases going on about whether such a carriage is legal. It could very well be declared illegal, in which case airlines are no longer allowed to cancel the rest of the booking if one leg is missed.

Norwegian is already ahead of this as they just allow you to skip any leg you want without canceling the rest.


Part of this goes back to when you would have a flight from CLE-LAX for $1500. But Akron-CLE-LAX was $300. Live in CLE just buy the second ticket and skip the Akron flight and show up in CLE. Airlines put a stop to it.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3921
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:33 pm

Babyshark wrote:
Airlines put a stop to it.


Indeed they did, however now under pressure of competition they might be forced to allow it again. If one airline allows it, that gives that airline the upper hand over others who disallow it.

Besides, it remains to be seen if the disallowance is even legal. Sure it's in the terms of service of the airline, but if those terms of service are at odds with the law they don't apply.
 
Airstud
Posts: 4682
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:04 am

SwissCanuck wrote:
there's two people fighting over 11E


Why?!? It'a s middle seat!!

Gimme the winda...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:23 pm

This has happened to me at least twice. Agents always just said sorry and it was no big deal. I could see the wrong person and this being a big deal. We have all seen a few people who go crazy with a little power and enforcing the rules too much.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Man denied boarding on AA SJC-LAX return flight because he never showed up for original LAX-SJC flight...except he d

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:00 pm

Yflyer wrote:
I had an odd experience boarding a United flight last year where I scanned my boarding pass and the scanner beeped and turned green like everything was ok, except some other person's name showed up on the LCD display. I thought it seemed strange, but didn't think much of it and boarded the flight. After we were all onboard the gate agent came onboard and announced "Yflyer, if you are onboard please ring your call button". So apparently even though I scanned my boarding pass, the system hadn't actually recorded that I had boarded. Thankfully they caught the error and corrected it once they confirmed that I was onboard; I assume if I hadn't my onward connection would have gotten canceled.

This was on an interline connection between HA and UA, in other words I checked in with HA and had a HA boarding pass for my UA flight. I'm guessing there must have been some kind of glitch between the two airlines' systems that led to this error.


I had a weird issue a few years ago with Sun Country. I printed out my boarding pass for a flight to DFW from the kiosk. Except the kiosk printed off a boarding pass for a flight I didnt make 4 months earlier. I didnt look at it close enough except to see it had DFW as the destination. When I went through TSA the agent noted the difference and I had to hit the check in stand to get it corrected. Really weird.

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