ronmk1986
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Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:53 am

As IAH is one of the major hubs of United Airlines, I have been curious why UA does not have any scheduled flight to Asia-Pacific except NRT and SYD, from IAH?

Is codesharing with UA's Star Alliance partners, including NH, CA, and BR, more than enough to cover Asia-Southern USA traffic except for Tokyo and Sydney?

Plus, what about the connecting passengers from South America to Asia via IAH? If I compare to AA's DFW-Asia routes, I found there are fair numbers of connecting passengers from South America to Asia or vice versa, via DFW.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes in IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:02 am

IAH-SYD loads are pretty much 'seasonal', UA just announced their usual seasonal IAH-SYD reductions (scales back to x4 weekly during the Northern Summer). At other times IAH-SYD is daily.

Saying that though, UA isn't doing too badly on the IAH-SYD despite no official feed on the AU end (There is only UA/QF interlines).
 
DiscoverCSG
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:25 pm

ronmk1986 wrote:
As IAH is one of the major hubs of United Airlines, I have been curious why UA does not have any scheduled flight to Asia-Pacific except NRT and SYD, from IAH?

Is codesharing with UA's Star Alliance partners, including NH, CA, and BR, more than enough to cover Asia-Southern USA traffic except for Tokyo and Sydney?

Plus, what about the connecting passengers from South America to Asia via IAH? If I compare to AA's DFW-Asia routes, I found there are fair numbers of connecting passengers from South America to Asia or vice versa, via DFW.


United has hubs at SFO, ORD, EWR, and LAX, each of which is better-positioned than IAH to handle US-Asia flights. Connections from Asia to Latin America via the USA can't be such a huge market. Possible routings might be:

PVG-NRT-IAH-BOG
HKG-EWR-GRU
ICN-SFO-IAH-EZE

and so forth.
 
jfk777
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:58 pm

If the comparison is to AA's DFW hub then the answer is because DFW is AA largest hub and they fly to Seoul, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Peking and Shanghai. IF the answer is because of United then ORD and SFO are the main Asia gateways and many Star Alliance airlines fly to Houston including ANA, Air China, EVA and Singapore Airlines which is one hell of a list.

Houston should be greatful UA flies to Sydney and Boeing made a 787-9. Given all the other UA hubs and their huge services to Asia Houston is geographically poorly located for Pacific flights. As far as the Latin American connections, Sao Paulo is flown from both Chicago and Newark nonstop daily so IAH provides nothing extra for a Tokyo to GRU passenger. Many Latin cities are also flown nonstop from Newark.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:27 pm

jfk777 wrote:
If the comparison is to AA's DFW hub then the answer is because DFW is AA largest hub and they fly to Seoul, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Peking and Shanghai. IF the answer is because of United then ORD and SFO are the main Asia gateways and many Star Alliance airlines fly to Houston including ANA, Air China, EVA and Singapore Airlines which is one hell of a list.

Houston should be greatful UA flies to Sydney and Boeing made a 787-9. Given all the other UA hubs and their huge services to Asia Houston is geographically poorly located for Pacific flights. As far as the Latin American connections, Sao Paulo is flown from both Chicago and Newark nonstop daily so IAH provides nothing extra for a Tokyo to GRU passenger. Many Latin cities are also flown nonstop from Newark.


Mostly agree with this, though AA's use of DFW as a gateway to Asia is really more about American's late entry/expansion into the TPAC market and not having a truly viable alternative to DFW other than LAX, where it faces a lot of competition. A lot of Star Alliance carriers do fly into IAH and pmCO never expanded TPAC from IAH beyond NRT, which is all they had from IAH.
 
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:32 pm

jfk777 wrote:
If the comparison is to AA's DFW hub then the answer is because DFW is AA largest hub

and the lack of an AA TPAC hub in the Northwest and/or Northeast. Also DFW's location north of IAH is another (very small) advantage.
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:44 pm

ronmk1986 wrote:
As IAH is one of the major hubs of United Airlines, I have been curious why UA does not have any scheduled flight to Asia-Pacific except NRT and SYD, from IAH?



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LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:54 pm

Because SFO and ORD exist.

AA had no choice but to make DFW their Asia hub. AA was getting their arse handed to the at ORD and they had no real west coast hub. Also while DFW is about 20% smaller in Far East O&D, it also has 33% of the competition from foreign carriers that IAH does. Plus, DFW is a much bigger domestic hub and thei Asia flights are timed perfectly for Latin connections.

The only city not served by IAH that has significant O&D is PVG, but frankly MU will serve it before UA.
Last edited by LAXdude1023 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YoungDon
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:56 pm

jfk777 wrote:
If the comparison is to AA's DFW hub then the answer is because DFW is AA largest hub and they fly to Seoul, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Peking and Shanghai. IF the answer is because of United then ORD and SFO are the main Asia gateways and many Star Alliance airlines fly to Houston including ANA, Air China, EVA and Singapore Airlines which is one hell of a list.

Houston should be greatful UA flies to Sydney and Boeing made a 787-9. Given all the other UA hubs and their huge services to Asia Houston is geographically poorly located for Pacific flights. As far as the Latin American connections, Sao Paulo is flown from both Chicago and Newark nonstop daily so IAH provides nothing extra for a Tokyo to GRU passenger. Many Latin cities are also flown nonstop from Newark.


Mostly agree, though I don't understand what's so special about GRU specifically... Yes that specific destination is served from both IAH and EWR but there's plenty of Latin American airports with UA service to IAH that don't have it to EWR. There are unquestionably more potential connections to the south through IAH, but its not surprising UA has more profitable traffic to chase than long, thin Asia-Latam connections.
 
mfe777
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:26 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Because SFO and ORD exist.

AA had no choice but to make DFW their Asia hub. AA was getting their arse handed to the at ORD and they had no real west coast hub. Also while DFW is about 20% smaller in Far East O&D, it also has 33% of the competition from foreign carriers that IAH does. Plus, DFW is a much bigger domestic hub and thei Asia flights are timed perfectly for Latin connections.

The only city not served by IAH that has significant O&D is PVG, but frankly MU will serve it before UA.


I'd like to see these numbers claiming DFW O&D demand to the far east is 20% smaller than Houston. Every number I've seen over the years shows much more O&D DFW-Asia than Houston, where Houston has more O&D to Latin America and oil markets. DFW has more "East" Asians than Houston, especially Korean and Japanese, than Houston. Houston has more Pakistani that area of Asians, not east Asians. Korean Air has operated successfully to Dallas for decades with no Skyteam hub in DFW, and they couldn't even make a few flights per week to Houston work despite zero competition on the route. That says a lot.

And most importantly, DFW has a much more diverse business market which generates more business traffic to Asia to fill premium cabins, whereas Houston is almost sickeningly dependent on the oil industry. It's that simple as to why Houston has fewer flights to the Far East, and is COMPLETELY absent from Asian business destinations like Hong Kong, Seoul, and Shanghai. I mean.... it's 2019.... it's kind of embarrassing that Houston does not have any flights to Seoul or Shanghai.
 
notconcerned
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:34 pm

YoungDon wrote:
Mostly agree, though I don't understand what's so special about GRU specifically... Yes that specific destination is served from both IAH and EWR but there's plenty of Latin American airports with UA service to IAH that don't have it to EWR. There are unquestionably more potential connections to the south through IAH, but its not surprising UA has more profitable traffic to chase than long, thin Asia-Latam connections.


There are only 2 deep South America destinations that IAH has and not EWR/ORD which are SCL and GIG. So IAH isn't really tapping into a larger market. In addition, SCL/GIG can make shorter connections through EU hubs depending on final Asian destination.
 
kavok
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:43 pm

Just look at yesterday's HND slot filing, UA applied for 6 different HND slots. IAH was one of them, but was number 5 on that list. UA already flies from SFO, so effectively IAH was ranked as UA's sixth highest priority overall for Tokyo Haneda service.

Compare that to AA's network, where DFW is essentially the second highest priority behind LAX. That being said, it also shows how poor AA's TPAC network is when in their filing, the only three destinations they could justify applying for were LAX (which already has one HND flight), DFW, and a leisure flight to Vegas. So yes, in this regard DFW does strongly benefit from AA's weakness in Asia. UA doesn't have that same benefit, and hence hardly any Asian flights.
 
tkoenig95
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:47 pm

IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:58 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Because SFO and ORD exist.

AA had no choice but to make DFW their Asia hub. AA was getting their arse handed to the at ORD and they had no real west coast hub. Also while DFW is about 20% smaller in Far East O&D, it also has 33% of the competition from foreign carriers that IAH does. Plus, DFW is a much bigger domestic hub and thei Asia flights are timed perfectly for Latin connections.

The only city not served by IAH that has significant O&D is PVG, but frankly MU will serve it before UA.


I'd like to see these numbers claiming DFW O&D demand to the far east is 20% smaller than Houston. Every number I've seen over the years shows much more O&D DFW-Asia than Houston, where Houston has more O&D to Latin America and oil markets. DFW has more "East" Asians than Houston, especially Korean and Japanese, than Houston. Houston has more Pakistani that area of Asians, not east Asians. Korean Air has operated successfully to Dallas for decades with no Skyteam hub in DFW, and they couldn't even make a few flights per week to Houston work despite zero competition on the route. That says a lot.

And most importantly, DFW has a much more diverse business market which generates more business traffic to Asia to fill premium cabins, whereas Houston is almost sickeningly dependent on the oil industry. It's that simple as to why Houston has fewer flights to the Far East, and is COMPLETELY absent from Asian business destinations like Hong Kong, Seoul, and Shanghai. I mean.... it's 2019.... it's kind of embarrassing that Houston does not have any flights to Seoul or Shanghai.


Read it and weep:

Largest O&D markets from US cities to the Far East

LA - 4.7mil
SF - 3.4mil
NYC - 3.3mil
YVR - 2.4mil
YYZ - 1.6mil
CHI - 1.5mil
SEA - 0.9mil
DC - 0.7mil
HOU - 0.5mil
DFW - 0.4mil
BOS 0.3mil
DTW - 0.3mil
YUL 0.2mil

DFW has never been larger to the Far East than IAH. DFW has more O&D to one country in the Far East: Korea. DFW and IAH are similar in size to Japan. IAH has way more O&D to China and Southeast Asia.

I don't know where you getting your numbers from, but if they show DFW larger than IAH to the Far East, frankly they are wrong.

Outside the Far East, DFW is larger to every market in India except BOM. But IAH has way more O&D to the Middle East.

Also, I don't know where you're getting your demographics from either. Houston has more Asian residents than DFW. Below are the foreign born numbers for both metro areas as of 2017:

Total foreign born Asians:
Houston: 410,325
DFW: 404,693

Foreign born East Asians:
Houston: 83,154
DFW: 73,390

Foreign born South Asians (the Indian Subcontinent):
DFW: 179,474
Houston: 150,151

Foreign born Southeast Asians:
Houston: 144,415
DFW: 112,615

Foreign Born West Asians (Arabs and the Caucuses):
DFW: 33,309
Houston: 31,355

Now for the countries of significance:

China:
Houston: 65,941
DFW: 45,966

Korea:
DFW: 22,021
Houston: 14,011

India:
DFW: 125,591
Houston: 93,002

Pakistan:
Houston: 35,901
DFW: 19,095

Philippines:
Houston: 37,656
DFW: 24,030

Vietnam:
Houston: 92,865
DFW: 62,310

The rest of the ethnicities are pretty similar between the two.
Last edited by LAXdude1023 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mfe777
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:08 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Because SFO and ORD exist.

AA had no choice but to make DFW their Asia hub. AA was getting their arse handed to the at ORD and they had no real west coast hub. Also while DFW is about 20% smaller in Far East O&D, it also has 33% of the competition from foreign carriers that IAH does. Plus, DFW is a much bigger domestic hub and thei Asia flights are timed perfectly for Latin connections.

The only city not served by IAH that has significant O&D is PVG, but frankly MU will serve it before UA.


I'd like to see these numbers claiming DFW O&D demand to the far east is 20% smaller than Houston. Every number I've seen over the years shows much more O&D DFW-Asia than Houston, where Houston has more O&D to Latin America and oil markets. DFW has more "East" Asians than Houston, especially Korean and Japanese, than Houston. Houston has more Pakistani that area of Asians, not east Asians. Korean Air has operated successfully to Dallas for decades with no Skyteam hub in DFW, and they couldn't even make a few flights per week to Houston work despite zero competition on the route. That says a lot.

And most importantly, DFW has a much more diverse business market which generates more business traffic to Asia to fill premium cabins, whereas Houston is almost sickeningly dependent on the oil industry. It's that simple as to why Houston has fewer flights to the Far East, and is COMPLETELY absent from Asian business destinations like Hong Kong, Seoul, and Shanghai. I mean.... it's 2019.... it's kind of embarrassing that Houston does not have any flights to Seoul or Shanghai.


Read it and weep:

Largest O&D markets from US cities to the Far East

LA - 4.7mil
SF - 3.4mil
NYC - 3.3mil
YVR - 2.4mil
YYZ - 1.6mil
CHI - 1.5mil
SEA - 0.9mil
DC - 0.7mil
HOU - 0.5mil
DFW - 0.4mil
BOS 0.3mil
DTW - 0.3mil
YUL 0.2mil

DFW has never been larger to the Far East than IAH. DFW has more O&D to one country in the Far East: Korea. DFW and IAH are similar in size to Japan. IAH has way more O&D to China and Southeast Asia.

I don't know where you getting your numbers from, but if they show DFW larger than IAH to the Far East, frankly they are wrong.

Outside the Far East, DFW is larger to every market in India except BOM. But IAH has way more O&D to the Middle East.


Can you include a source? Not disputing them, just curious. Also curious on when these numbers are from.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:09 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

I'd like to see these numbers claiming DFW O&D demand to the far east is 20% smaller than Houston. Every number I've seen over the years shows much more O&D DFW-Asia than Houston, where Houston has more O&D to Latin America and oil markets. DFW has more "East" Asians than Houston, especially Korean and Japanese, than Houston. Houston has more Pakistani that area of Asians, not east Asians. Korean Air has operated successfully to Dallas for decades with no Skyteam hub in DFW, and they couldn't even make a few flights per week to Houston work despite zero competition on the route. That says a lot.

And most importantly, DFW has a much more diverse business market which generates more business traffic to Asia to fill premium cabins, whereas Houston is almost sickeningly dependent on the oil industry. It's that simple as to why Houston has fewer flights to the Far East, and is COMPLETELY absent from Asian business destinations like Hong Kong, Seoul, and Shanghai. I mean.... it's 2019.... it's kind of embarrassing that Houston does not have any flights to Seoul or Shanghai.


Read it and weep:

Largest O&D markets from US cities to the Far East

LA - 4.7mil
SF - 3.4mil
NYC - 3.3mil
YVR - 2.4mil
YYZ - 1.6mil
CHI - 1.5mil
SEA - 0.9mil
DC - 0.7mil
HOU - 0.5mil
DFW - 0.4mil
BOS 0.3mil
DTW - 0.3mil
YUL 0.2mil

DFW has never been larger to the Far East than IAH. DFW has more O&D to one country in the Far East: Korea. DFW and IAH are similar in size to Japan. IAH has way more O&D to China and Southeast Asia.

I don't know where you getting your numbers from, but if they show DFW larger than IAH to the Far East, frankly they are wrong.

Outside the Far East, DFW is larger to every market in India except BOM. But IAH has way more O&D to the Middle East.


Can you include a source? Not disputing them, just curious. Also curious on when these numbers are from.


Source is IATA. There isn't a link because its not public. Im not the first one to post those though. LAXintl posted them in the United thread.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
mfe777
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:23 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Read it and weep:

Largest O&D markets from US cities to the Far East

LA - 4.7mil
SF - 3.4mil
NYC - 3.3mil
YVR - 2.4mil
YYZ - 1.6mil
CHI - 1.5mil
SEA - 0.9mil
DC - 0.7mil
HOU - 0.5mil
DFW - 0.4mil
BOS 0.3mil
DTW - 0.3mil
YUL 0.2mil

DFW has never been larger to the Far East than IAH. DFW has more O&D to one country in the Far East: Korea. DFW and IAH are similar in size to Japan. IAH has way more O&D to China and Southeast Asia.

I don't know where you getting your numbers from, but if they show DFW larger than IAH to the Far East, frankly they are wrong.

Outside the Far East, DFW is larger to every market in India except BOM. But IAH has way more O&D to the Middle East.


Can you include a source? Not disputing them, just curious. Also curious on when these numbers are from.


Source is IATA. There isn't a link because its not public. Im not the first one to post those though. LAXintl posted them in the United thread.


Do you have statistics on individual markets in Asia, such as how much of that Houston traffic is super low yielding VFR traffic serving the city's larger Vietnamese and Filipino populations versus Northeast Asia and business traffic? Also, does this traffic count all the people who drive from Austin and San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally? Many do since those cities don't have Asian service and DFW is too far a drive. I would assume those people count as "O&D" in these numbers if their tickets originate in Houston. Insignificantly, so would the DFW area passengers that EVA Air buses from Dallas to IAH to feed their flight.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:54 pm

It's a bit of a myth that VFR traffic is always super-low-yield. In the very competitive markets, it often is, but people often have no choice but to make VFR trips and will pay high prices. It's not like where you can go to PUJ instead of CUN on vacation because the price is lower. Plenty of VFR-dominant routings have quite high fares.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:37 pm

notconcerned wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Mostly agree, though I don't understand what's so special about GRU specifically... Yes that specific destination is served from both IAH and EWR but there's plenty of Latin American airports with UA service to IAH that don't have it to EWR. There are unquestionably more potential connections to the south through IAH, but its not surprising UA has more profitable traffic to chase than long, thin Asia-Latam connections.


There are only 2 deep South America destinations that IAH has and not EWR/ORD which are SCL and GIG. So IAH isn't really tapping into a larger market. In addition, SCL/GIG can make shorter connections through EU hubs depending on final Asian destination.

Look at the aircraft types between IAH and SA vs EWR and ORD to SA.
tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.

Lol. Houston is the only recession-proof city in the US, and is also a fortress hub and UAs only southern US hub. Yeah Houston my be vastly oil dependent, but that translates to nice full fare F and J sales, not to mention vast pharmaceutical/healthcare, shipping, and aerospace industries in the area. Plus in a recession oil prices go up; case in point we had service to DME/SIN, LOS and SVG added during a time other US cities were losing or barely clinging to air service. Yeah, we lost DME (straining US/Russia relations, rerouted through MAN), LOS (Nigerians not letting UA have their revenues), SVG (oil prices went back down as the global economy improved) but we've had many more additions both international and domestic as well as 2x daily A380 service and other service that has existed in to Houston since the 1950s (KLM, BA). Plus the myriad of domestic routes UA has added. You can bet that if UA de-hubbed Houston today, DL would take a shit on Austin and replicate today's Houston service tomorrow.
When wasn't America great?


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YoungDon
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:46 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

Can you include a source? Not disputing them, just curious. Also curious on when these numbers are from.


Source is IATA. There isn't a link because its not public. Im not the first one to post those though. LAXintl posted them in the United thread.


Do you have statistics on individual markets in Asia, such as how much of that Houston traffic is super low yielding VFR traffic serving the city's larger Vietnamese and Filipino populations versus Northeast Asia and business traffic? Also, does this traffic count all the people who drive from Austin and San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally? Many do since those cities don't have Asian service and DFW is too far a drive. I would assume those people count as "O&D" in these numbers if their tickets originate in Houston. Insignificantly, so would the DFW area passengers that EVA Air buses from Dallas to IAH to feed their flight.


So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:03 pm

YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Source is IATA. There isn't a link because its not public. Im not the first one to post those though. LAXintl posted them in the United thread.


Do you have statistics on individual markets in Asia, such as how much of that Houston traffic is super low yielding VFR traffic serving the city's larger Vietnamese and Filipino populations versus Northeast Asia and business traffic? Also, does this traffic count all the people who drive from Austin and San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally? Many do since those cities don't have Asian service and DFW is too far a drive. I would assume those people count as "O&D" in these numbers if their tickets originate in Houston. Insignificantly, so would the DFW area passengers that EVA Air buses from Dallas to IAH to feed their flight.


So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.


I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5824
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm

mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

Do you have statistics on individual markets in Asia, such as how much of that Houston traffic is super low yielding VFR traffic serving the city's larger Vietnamese and Filipino populations versus Northeast Asia and business traffic? Also, does this traffic count all the people who drive from Austin and San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally? Many do since those cities don't have Asian service and DFW is too far a drive. I would assume those people count as "O&D" in these numbers if their tickets originate in Houston. Insignificantly, so would the DFW area passengers that EVA Air buses from Dallas to IAH to feed their flight.


So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.


I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.


Ok, time out. I used to live in Dallas, I love Dallas, and I now live in Houston and also love it so I have no skin in this game, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Sure I-35 is no joke, but have you driven 290??? Its not any better and in fact I think its worse. Traffic in Houston is worse and more unpredictable than DFW. Right now, according to google maps, Austin to IAH is 2 hours and 40 minutes and Austin to DFW airport is 3 hours and 9 minutes. 29 minutes is hardly going to make an issue on this.

DFW benefits as much from people coming in to fly from there as IAH does. There are no statistics measure on this subject, but Ive worked in this industry for 13 years dealing both with the Dallas and Houston markets so its not exactly an uneducated guess. From experience, the most people that bleed into both airports are not from Austin or San Antonio, they are from small towns like Waco and Tyler for DFW and Beaumont and Lafayette for IAH.

IAH has significantly more international O&D. I hate to break it to you but that is an undisputed fact. DFW depends way more on connections. Thats also a fact. DFW of course has way more domestic O&D than IAH. Its just the way the markets are set up. DFW's local economy is more domestically based. IAH is the worldwide center of oil which is an extremely international industry.

You can't just talk crap if you don't know the actual data behind what you're saying man! This isn't a slight on Dallas. Its a great city and DFW airport is a wonder to behold, but please lets deal with things that are actually based in reality.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
YoungDon
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:25 pm

mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

Do you have statistics on individual markets in Asia, such as how much of that Houston traffic is super low yielding VFR traffic serving the city's larger Vietnamese and Filipino populations versus Northeast Asia and business traffic? Also, does this traffic count all the people who drive from Austin and San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally? Many do since those cities don't have Asian service and DFW is too far a drive. I would assume those people count as "O&D" in these numbers if their tickets originate in Houston. Insignificantly, so would the DFW area passengers that EVA Air buses from Dallas to IAH to feed their flight.


So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.


I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.


Whatever helps you sleep at night dude. Right this second, Downtown Austin to DFW Terminal A is 3 hours and 15 minutes, Downtown San Antonio to IAH is 3 hours 9 minutes. Apparently crossing the entire Houston area is part of that drive down a "usually empty I-10". Laughable. I've lived here most of my life too. Frankly, people don't make any of those drives often to catch flights to Asia. If you can afford a flight to Japan from Dallas, you can afford it from Austin too. Most people doing those long drives are trying to save a few bucks on domestic itineraries. But if you must use other markets to try to bolster your point, let's talk about how many people from OKC use DFW Airport for international flights as well eh?

Yes, DFW has done well in recent years and I'm sure they will continue to do so. The airport is in a unique position as AA's only hub west of the Mississippi that can realistically flow Asia traffic and the airline uses it to do that. IAH has one less destination (unless Singapore is no longer in Asia) and has a lot less connection potential due to the presence of SFO and its natural strength as an Asian market. I think most of us appreciate having a greater choice in carriers and still be able to earn Star miles and status, so I'll happily take what we have. IAH international traffic is up 4% in 2018 to nearly 11 million passengers, so I don't think there's much to worry about as far as DFW goes. And that's growth despite Hobby also handling another million or so international passengers.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 623
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:31 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:

So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.


I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.


Ok, time out. I used to live in Dallas, I love Dallas, and I now live in Houston and also love it so I have no skin in this game, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Sure I-35 is no joke, but have you driven 290??? Its not any better and in fact I think its worse. Traffic in Houston is worse and more unpredictable than DFW. Right now, according to google maps, Austin to IAH is 2 hours and 40 minutes and Austin to DFW airport is 3 hours and 9 minutes. 29 minutes is hardly going to make an issue on this.

DFW benefits as much from people coming in to fly from there as IAH does. There are no statistics measure on this subject, but Ive worked in this industry for 13 years dealing both with the Dallas and Houston markets so its not exactly an uneducated guess. From experience, the most people that bleed into both airports are not from Austin or San Antonio, they are from small towns like Waco and Tyler for DFW and Beaumont and Lafayette for IAH.

IAH has significantly more international O&D. I hate to break it to you but that is an undisputed fact. DFW depends way more on connections. Thats also a fact. DFW of course has way more domestic O&D than IAH. Its just the way the markets are set up. DFW's local economy is more domestically based. IAH is the worldwide center of oil which is an extremely international industry.

You can't just talk crap if you don't know the actual data behind what you're saying man! This isn't a slight on Dallas. Its a great city and DFW airport is a wonder to behold, but please lets deal with things that are actually based in reality.


This. I don't understand why this poster is so hellbent on making it seem like Houston has some weak market to Asia dependent on low yield VFR - in some respects its stronger than that in Dallas and some weaker. But Houston has been a stronger international market for decades, this growth in Dallas is in many cases far more recent. And I say this as a former Dallas resident and fan of the area and DFW Airport.
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 2854
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:37 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.


I disagree. UA and CO merged in 2010. Houston's economy is heavily tied to energy. While the price of oil was relatively stable and high after the merger, the price of oil took a dive in 2014 and has not recovered. That is why IAH hasn't seen much love lately. ORD hasn't seen much love lately either but that is mostly due to the lack of available gates... a problem that is being remedied. Every hub will go through it's ups and downs but I don't see UA dropping any hub. Each UA hub has a significant but different role in it's network. Asia is not IAH's role hence the limited flights there.

But, it is still impressive that UA still has non-stop flights to Asia from EVERY one it's hubs including HNL. Three of those hubs are mid-continent and two of them are on the east coast. Despite flying over the biggest gateway to Asia, their very own SFO. MIA is the SFO of the south and AA doesn't fly to South America from all of it's hubs. AA and DL doesn't even fly from the largest city in the US (NYC) to Asia even they both maintain hubs at JFK.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 868
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.

Before UA bought CO, UA's most southernly continental hub was LAX with nothing in the Deep South or Texas. What IAH brought UA was a hub to compete with DL's ATL and AA's DFW. It's undoubtedly a big reason why UA wanted CO.
 
stburke
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:14 pm

IAH fans are the new DTW whiners.
Give a pilot a bag of gold and they'll complain how heavy it is.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5824
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:26 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
stburke wrote:
IAH fans are the new DTW whiners.


First off the DTW crowd only gets a bad rap for one person. The OP was asking a question not whining.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:54 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:

So let me get this straight. You think "many" people drive 3 hours from San Antonio to Houston to travel internationally, but the three hour drive from Austin to Dallas is "too far"? You think that somehow DFW has more business traffic to Asia, despite the numbers showing that not to be the case? You think IAH is embarrassingly underserved by not having flights to Shanghai?

You're funny dude. IAH has better overall international service than most airports, including DFW, and only one less flight to Asia. Its because of the business strength to Houston from those markets. DFW has them in large part because of AA connections. It can't be that difficult to understand that if AA had a large West Coast hub from which to flow Asian connections like UA does, some of those flights wouldn't exist.


I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.


Ok, time out. I used to live in Dallas, I love Dallas, and I now live in Houston and also love it so I have no skin in this game, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Sure I-35 is no joke, but have you driven 290??? Its not any better and in fact I think its worse. Traffic in Houston is worse and more unpredictable than DFW. Right now, according to google maps, Austin to IAH is 2 hours and 40 minutes and Austin to DFW airport is 3 hours and 9 minutes. 29 minutes is hardly going to make an issue on this.

DFW benefits as much from people coming in to fly from there as IAH does. There are no statistics measure on this subject, but Ive worked in this industry for 13 years dealing both with the Dallas and Houston markets so its not exactly an uneducated guess. From experience, the most people that bleed into both airports are not from Austin or San Antonio, they are from small towns like Waco and Tyler for DFW and Beaumont and Lafayette for IAH.

IAH has significantly more international O&D. I hate to break it to you but that is an undisputed fact. DFW depends way more on connections. Thats also a fact. DFW of course has way more domestic O&D than IAH. Its just the way the markets are set up. DFW's local economy is more domestically based. IAH is the worldwide center of oil which is an extremely international industry.

You can't just talk crap if you don't know the actual data behind what you're saying man! This isn't a slight on Dallas. Its a great city and DFW airport is a wonder to behold, but please lets deal with things that are actually based in reality.


I have received zero actual statistics on IAH/DFW demand. All conversation has been conjecture. Provide some facts, that's all I ask. Data. Something to explain why IAH-Asia flights are lacking. No need to discredit me when nobody else here has provided any hard facts or data other than "I know Houston has more O&D demand to Asia and you're wrong." All I have done is think of possibilities why IAH lacks nonstop flights to key cities in Asia, which has not changed despite this pile-on on me.

On top of that, IAH's Europe destinations are starting to lack some umph compared to DFW. Houston has Manchester, but DFW has Dublin, Rome, Reykjavik, and Madrid which IAH does not.
Last edited by mfe777 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5824
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:57 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

I think you're the funny one, so likewise. Austin to IAH versus Austin to DFW is apples to oranges. I-35 is no joke. Austin to IAH can be done in 2.5 hours, Austin to DFW is 3.5 hours at least. San Antonio to Houston is a straight shot down a usually empty I-10. Yes, plenty of people drive from Austin and SA to IAH to catch international flights. I have lived in this area my entire life. Hardly anyone from Austin or SA would consider driving all the way to DFW to catch an international flight. IAH does capture international traffic from those markets.

IAH has more international passenger numbers, and slightly more foreign carriers, but there is not a big difference in how strong each international network is and the gap is getting smaller. It's laughable that you say AA's flights at DFW are reliant on connections when IAH's are due to "business strength." Sorry to break it to you, IAH's are just as reliant on connections especially since most foreign carriers are Star Alliance. You were also wrong in saying that the stats show IAH is more business traffic (they did not specify business versus leisure) and that DFW has only one more flight to Asia than DFW (DFW has ICN, PVG, HKG uniquely, where IAH only has TPE over DFW). Additionally, DFW has a non-Oneworld Asian carrier in Korean Air that holds its own. IAH only has Star Alliance flights to Asia. Korean Air tried but non-Star Alliance flights from IAH to Asia just didn't work without the connections.


Ok, time out. I used to live in Dallas, I love Dallas, and I now live in Houston and also love it so I have no skin in this game, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Sure I-35 is no joke, but have you driven 290??? Its not any better and in fact I think its worse. Traffic in Houston is worse and more unpredictable than DFW. Right now, according to google maps, Austin to IAH is 2 hours and 40 minutes and Austin to DFW airport is 3 hours and 9 minutes. 29 minutes is hardly going to make an issue on this.

DFW benefits as much from people coming in to fly from there as IAH does. There are no statistics measure on this subject, but Ive worked in this industry for 13 years dealing both with the Dallas and Houston markets so its not exactly an uneducated guess. From experience, the most people that bleed into both airports are not from Austin or San Antonio, they are from small towns like Waco and Tyler for DFW and Beaumont and Lafayette for IAH.

IAH has significantly more international O&D. I hate to break it to you but that is an undisputed fact. DFW depends way more on connections. Thats also a fact. DFW of course has way more domestic O&D than IAH. Its just the way the markets are set up. DFW's local economy is more domestically based. IAH is the worldwide center of oil which is an extremely international industry.

You can't just talk crap if you don't know the actual data behind what you're saying man! This isn't a slight on Dallas. Its a great city and DFW airport is a wonder to behold, but please lets deal with things that are actually based in reality.


I have received zero actual statistics on IAH/DFW demand. All conversation has been conjecture. Provide some facts, that's all I ask. Data. Something to explain why IAH-Asia flights are lacking. No need to discredit me when nobody else here has provided any hard facts or data other than "I know Houston has more O&D demand to Asia and you're wrong." All I have done is think of possibilities why IAH lacks nonstop flights to key cities in Asia, which has not changed despite this pile-on on me.


You HAVE been given those statistics. They are several posts up.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Austin787
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:02 pm

I think UA's limited TPAC flights from IAH are due to 2 reasons:
1) IAH has TPAC flights from other Star Alliance airlines: Air China, Air New Zealand, ANA, and EVA
2) UA has other hubs which are better positioned to handle TPAC connections: ORD, SFO, LAX, and EWR.

If UA were to start additional TPAC flights out of IAH, I could see IAH-ICN or IAH-PVG.

tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.

That title belongs to CLE.
Last edited by Austin787 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:02 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Ok, time out. I used to live in Dallas, I love Dallas, and I now live in Houston and also love it so I have no skin in this game, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Sure I-35 is no joke, but have you driven 290??? Its not any better and in fact I think its worse. Traffic in Houston is worse and more unpredictable than DFW. Right now, according to google maps, Austin to IAH is 2 hours and 40 minutes and Austin to DFW airport is 3 hours and 9 minutes. 29 minutes is hardly going to make an issue on this.

DFW benefits as much from people coming in to fly from there as IAH does. There are no statistics measure on this subject, but Ive worked in this industry for 13 years dealing both with the Dallas and Houston markets so its not exactly an uneducated guess. From experience, the most people that bleed into both airports are not from Austin or San Antonio, they are from small towns like Waco and Tyler for DFW and Beaumont and Lafayette for IAH.

IAH has significantly more international O&D. I hate to break it to you but that is an undisputed fact. DFW depends way more on connections. Thats also a fact. DFW of course has way more domestic O&D than IAH. Its just the way the markets are set up. DFW's local economy is more domestically based. IAH is the worldwide center of oil which is an extremely international industry.

You can't just talk crap if you don't know the actual data behind what you're saying man! This isn't a slight on Dallas. Its a great city and DFW airport is a wonder to behold, but please lets deal with things that are actually based in reality.


I have received zero actual statistics on IAH/DFW demand. All conversation has been conjecture. Provide some facts, that's all I ask. Data. Something to explain why IAH-Asia flights are lacking. No need to discredit me when nobody else here has provided any hard facts or data other than "I know Houston has more O&D demand to Asia and you're wrong." All I have done is think of possibilities why IAH lacks nonstop flights to key cities in Asia, which has not changed despite this pile-on on me.


You HAVE been given those statistics. They are several posts up.


No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.
Last edited by mfe777 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:06 pm

United787 wrote:
tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.


I disagree. UA and CO merged in 2010. Houston's economy is heavily tied to energy. While the price of oil was relatively stable and high after the merger, the price of oil took a dive in 2014 and has not recovered. That is why IAH hasn't seen much love lately. ORD hasn't seen much love lately either but that is mostly due to the lack of available gates... a problem that is being remedied. Every hub will go through it's ups and downs but I don't see UA dropping any hub. Each UA hub has a significant but different role in it's network. Asia is not IAH's role hence the limited flights there.

But, it is still impressive that UA still has non-stop flights to Asia from EVERY one it's hubs including HNL. Three of those hubs are mid-continent and two of them are on the east coast. Despite flying over the biggest gateway to Asia, their very own SFO. MIA is the SFO of the south and AA doesn't fly to South America from all of it's hubs. AA and DL doesn't even fly from the largest city in the US (NYC) to Asia even they both maintain hubs at JFK.

The success of Houston is, in fact, heavily tied to the status of the economy, but with the rebound of oil and more investment in different energy resources, healthcare and finance should be more than enough for UA to take a bigger look at IAH. The smallest amount of help the airport has seen from UA is the rebank in late 2017 that helped align connecting flights and the terminal C remodel. It would be nice to see the 787 crew base come back along with more regular missions on the type rather than the one-off LHR or FRA route that happens once in a blue moon. 2018 finally saw an increase of pax at 43 million which is back to pre-2008 levels. Hopefully 2019/2020 will be the time for UA to dip into different European markets.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:28 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

I have received zero actual statistics on IAH/DFW demand. All conversation has been conjecture. Provide some facts, that's all I ask. Data. Something to explain why IAH-Asia flights are lacking. No need to discredit me when nobody else here has provided any hard facts or data other than "I know Houston has more O&D demand to Asia and you're wrong." All I have done is think of possibilities why IAH lacks nonstop flights to key cities in Asia, which has not changed despite this pile-on on me.


You HAVE been given those statistics. They are several posts up.


No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:32 pm

YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

You HAVE been given those statistics. They are several posts up.


No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% (383,000 pax) in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7% (232,000 pax). That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:34 pm

In UA's business model, EWR is their main European gateway, IAD provides relief flights to Europe, SFO is the Asian gateway, IAH is the Latin American gateway, and ORD provides mid-continent connecting opportunities to Europe/Asia/Latin America. Would it be nice for IAH to have UA metal to PVG or ICN? Yes. But UA would prefer to route that traffic over SFO. Likewise, SFO traffic to BOG, UIO, or GRU is routed over IAH. DL has a huge megahub in ATL that carries close to twice the flights of UA at IAH, and even they only have limited Asian service. DL prefers to route Asia over DTW and SEA. Airlines with multiple hubs don't need to connect every dot on the planet with every single hub.
 
YoungDon
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:34 pm

Duplicate post please delete
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:46 pm

YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

You HAVE been given those statistics. They are several posts up.


No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.


Again, please cite statistics..... I could say IAH fell 50% in international traffic and it holds the same water as your statement. A breakdown of that would be even better,

DFW does have nonstop service to Amsterdam and Calgary. IAH does not have nonstop service to SIN. With central and South American cities, there are many that IAH has and DFW doesn't and many that DFW has and IAH doesn't, that point is moot. I haven't been saying DFW international service trumps that of IAH, but that they are similar and pretty equal, just different. It's always been touted on this board that IAH has some massive international service advantage over DFW when that isn't the case. They grew at about the same level in 2018, don't act like 1% is a huge advantage, but if you look at the adds over the last 10 years to DFW and IAH, one is doing better than the other. DFW relies some on connections but so does IAH. Someone said that IAH does not rely on connections, which shows how much in outer space some of the IAH fanboys area (Y'all do have NASA).

And even with all these statistics out of thin air, no citations, IAH still to this day does not have service to major international markets like Madrid, Dublin, Shanghai, Hong Kong....... Much smaller US cities have service to these places. None of these arguments are going to change that haha. I still don't buy that SFO's existence is why IAH does not have these flights.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 623
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:14 pm

mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.


Again, please cite statistics..... I could say IAH fell 50% in international traffic and it holds the same water as your statement. A breakdown of that would be even better,

DFW does have nonstop service to Amsterdam and Calgary. IAH does not have nonstop service to SIN. With central and South American cities, there are many that IAH has and DFW doesn't and many that DFW has and IAH doesn't, that point is moot. I haven't been saying DFW international service trumps that of IAH, but that they are similar and pretty equal, just different. It's always been touted on this board that IAH has some massive international service advantage over DFW when that isn't the case. They grew at about the same level in 2018, don't act like 1% is a huge advantage, but if you look at the adds over the last 10 years to DFW and IAH, one is doing better than the other. DFW relies some on connections but so does IAH. Someone said that IAH does not rely on connections, which shows how much in outer space some of the IAH fanboys area (Y'all do have NASA).

And even with all these statistics out of thin air, no citations, IAH still to this day does not have service to major international markets like Madrid, Dublin, Shanghai, Hong Kong....... Much smaller US cities have service to these places. None of these arguments are going to change that haha. I still don't buy that SFO's existence is why IAH does not have these flights.


Nonstop service to Amsterdam eh? You don't say? What flight number would that be? Were they on time today? Does it fly all year? You're right about Calgary, so I named you 7 markets and you keep naming four. Don't understand what your point is other than Madrid, Dublin, etc are more important to YOU. That's fine. But let's not act like they are objectively must have destinations.

And there's a few markets unserved out of DFW to Central/South America that IAH has. UIO, MID, PTY come to mind. Additionally there's a ton of smaller destinations, particularly in Mexico, that are only served seasonally, if at all out of DFW. And it's for the same reason that DFW has more Asian service - UA doesn't have anything like MIA. Just like IAH would have more Asian service if SFO didn't exist in the US network, DFW would have more Latin American service if MIA didn't exist in the AA network.

And if you don't think one airport growing by 383,000 pax in a year is more substantial than another airport (which is supposedly "closing the gap") growing by 232,000 international passengers in the same year, I don't know what to tell you. That's 65% more passenger growth at IAH than DFW in real terms but somehow that gap is narrowing in your world. Yet, we're the ones in outer sspace.

And btw, that's without the Hobby numbers. If Hobby didn't have international flights, the gap would be a bit bigger.

At this point I'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than you think that DFW serves more "important" places so it's somehow on the same level internationally. Lol
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:32 pm

gunnerman wrote:
tkoenig95 wrote:
IAH: the ugly stepson of the CO/UA merge.

Before UA bought CO, UA's most southernly continental hub was LAX with nothing in the Deep South or Texas. What IAH brought UA was a hub to compete with DL's ATL and AA's DFW. It's undoubtedly a big reason why UA wanted CO.


UA never bought CO, it was the other way around. CO took over UA. UA couldn’t afford anything at the time because they just got out of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. CO was in a better position with a great reputation. As you can see, CO’s old management was the team that took over the newly formed airline and still does to this day. The only reason they kept UA’s name was because of brand recognition. Besides that, everything else would have been fine as CO.

You are right about IAH potentially being a fortress hub like ATL and DFW. There is little to no real competitors and is almost centered at the middle of the country. Only time will tell, but as of recently, IAH is growing at a 4-5% per year.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:35 pm

mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.


Again, please cite statistics..... I could say IAH fell 50% in international traffic and it holds the same water as your statement. A breakdown of that would be even better,

DFW does have nonstop service to Amsterdam and Calgary. IAH does not have nonstop service to SIN. With central and South American cities, there are many that IAH has and DFW doesn't and many that DFW has and IAH doesn't, that point is moot. I haven't been saying DFW international service trumps that of IAH, but that they are similar and pretty equal, just different. It's always been touted on this board that IAH has some massive international service advantage over DFW when that isn't the case. They grew at about the same level in 2018, don't act like 1% is a huge advantage, but if you look at the adds over the last 10 years to DFW and IAH, one is doing better than the other. DFW relies some on connections but so does IAH. Someone said that IAH does not rely on connections, which shows how much in outer space some of the IAH fanboys area (Y'all do have NASA).

And even with all these statistics out of thin air, no citations, IAH still to this day does not have service to major international markets like Madrid, Dublin, Shanghai, Hong Kong....... Much smaller US cities have service to these places. None of these arguments are going to change that haha. I still don't buy that SFO's existence is why IAH does not have these flights.


Lets take it in pieces.

1) International O&D numbers are not public. There is no way for me to give you a link because no link exists. You have to be within the industry to have them. In 2013, Brookings got hold of the data and made it public and there is a link you can browse through below. The numbers have changed since then. Some markets have grown (like DFW-India and IAH-China) and some have shrunk (like DFW-ICN and IAH-CCS). However the scope and rankings are very similar. You said you saw numbers that showed DFW with "much more" O&D to East Asia. Frankly, you couldn't have unless they were made up.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/

2) You have to see that DFW and IAH play substantially different roles for their respective airlines. DFW is the largest and most major hub for AA. Its the end all be all. IAH is basically a Latin American and somewhat domestic hub for UA. In 3 years, it will probably be smaller than DEN making it the 3rd largest hub for UA where it used to be the first. That has zero to do with international flying and everything to do with domestic flying which is much more profitable right now. Think of it logically. If you are AA and you need a place to launch service from, where do you do it? You don't have a West Coast hub that can take it on (LAX doesn't have enough gates and is full of competition) and you're getting your rear end handed to you at ORD on Asia flights by UA and the other Asian carriers. You literally have no choice to do it but from DFW. Now look at UA and IAH. Why would you launch service from IAH when you have SFO, ORD, and EWR all with many flights to Asia that have been there for years? Those airports all have way more O&D (than IAH or DFW) and are better suited geographically. In short, yes SFO's existence is a HUGE reason why IAH won't be a priority for Asia service. If the market wasn't here, we wouldn't have the international carriers we do have. NH certainly gets plenty of connections at IAH, the others really don't. BR gets almost none (the flight arrives back at IAH past 10 pm so no one can connect). CA and SQ gets some.

3) You specifically mention AMS. AA is embarking on a new strategy to fly to summer seasonal destinations from DFW, ORD, and PHL. DFW couldn't support AMS year round when it was tried and still can't. Summer seasonal routes have nothing to do with international business ties and everything to do with vacationers.

Bottom line is that you said DFW gets "much more" O&D from East Asia. It doesn't. You said DFW has more Asians. It doesn't. You tried to say lots of people come to IAH from places like Austin but no one drives to DFW because I-35 is so intimidating. I almost laughed when I read that. After making such claims you can't go back and say you were just giving your opinion. Those are all things that can be disproven.
Last edited by LAXdude1023 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:36 pm

mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

No link, no source, no breakdown in data, and the numbers were rounded to the 100,000's. And these numbers were 400k vs 500k. Rounded to the nearest 100,000? Really? DFW could be a 449,999 and IAH at 450,001 with those numbers. Don't say I'm talking "crap" when honestly there has been no real data given. A few posters here need to calm down. I'm the one being rational, not name calling, and not saying I have presented data, when I haven't. My conversations have been opinion and forum conversation, never did I state I had facts when I didn't. I did not mean to rile up the IAH fanboys but facts are facts. A major US city not having nonstop flights to powerful world business capitals like Shanghai, Seoul, Hong Kong, Dublin, Madrid is a weakness.


First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.


Again, please cite statistics..... I could say IAH fell 50% in international traffic and it holds the same water as your statement. A breakdown of that would be even better,

DFW does have nonstop service to Amsterdam and Calgary. IAH does not have nonstop service to SIN. With central and South American cities, there are many that IAH has and DFW doesn't and many that DFW has and IAH doesn't, that point is moot. I haven't been saying DFW international service trumps that of IAH, but that they are similar and pretty equal, just different. It's always been touted on this board that IAH has some massive international service advantage over DFW when that isn't the case. They grew at about the same level in 2018, don't act like 1% is a huge advantage, but if you look at the adds over the last 10 years to DFW and IAH, one is doing better than the other. DFW relies some on connections but so does IAH. Someone said that IAH does not rely on connections, which shows how much in outer space some of the IAH fanboys area (Y'all do have NASA).

And even with all these statistics out of thin air, no citations, IAH still to this day does not have service to major international markets like Madrid, Dublin, Shanghai, Hong Kong....... Much smaller US cities have service to these places. None of these arguments are going to change that haha. I still don't buy that SFO's existence is why IAH does not have these flights.


Technically, IAH does have a direct flight to SIN via MAN. So yes, we do serve Singapore directly, which DFW does not.

Soon enough, we will be able to add LFW and ADD, as ADD will have a direct flight via LFW, onto the list of destinations DFW does not have. The numbers clearly show that IAH is a larger market internationally than DFW. I hope you don’t say Dallas has a larger African population than IAH, as it does not.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:43 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:

First of all, we don't have to give you any statistics when they're easy to look up. IAH grew 3.7% in international passengers in 2018, DFW 2.7%. That's not closing any gap. Secondly, this post went from you specifically talking about Asian service to evolving to you talking about all international service. Where are the DFW routes to places like Auckland, Panama City, Rio, Manchester, Taipei, Singapore, Amsterdam, Istanbul and Calgary then?

We can do this all day, but our international service is doing just fine. With all the new AA stuff, Houston's international passenger count is still growing faster with another international airport in the same metro area.

Those are facts, just not of the type you seem to like.


Again, please cite statistics..... I could say IAH fell 50% in international traffic and it holds the same water as your statement. A breakdown of that would be even better,

DFW does have nonstop service to Amsterdam and Calgary. IAH does not have nonstop service to SIN. With central and South American cities, there are many that IAH has and DFW doesn't and many that DFW has and IAH doesn't, that point is moot. I haven't been saying DFW international service trumps that of IAH, but that they are similar and pretty equal, just different. It's always been touted on this board that IAH has some massive international service advantage over DFW when that isn't the case. They grew at about the same level in 2018, don't act like 1% is a huge advantage, but if you look at the adds over the last 10 years to DFW and IAH, one is doing better than the other. DFW relies some on connections but so does IAH. Someone said that IAH does not rely on connections, which shows how much in outer space some of the IAH fanboys area (Y'all do have NASA).

And even with all these statistics out of thin air, no citations, IAH still to this day does not have service to major international markets like Madrid, Dublin, Shanghai, Hong Kong....... Much smaller US cities have service to these places. None of these arguments are going to change that haha. I still don't buy that SFO's existence is why IAH does not have these flights.


Technically, IAH doesn’t have a direct flight to SIN via MAN. So yes, we do serve Singapore directly, which DFW does not.

Soon enough, we will be able to add LFW and ADD, as ADD will have a direct flight via LFW, onto the list of destinations DFW does not have. The numbers clearly show that IAH is a larger market internationally than DFW. I hope you don’t say Dallas has a larger African population than IAH, as it does not.


So close, but yeah actually Dallas does have a larger African population. Its actually the 3rd largest in the US:

Immigrants from Africa as of 2017:
1. NYC MSA: 257,372 people
2. DC MSA: 202,823 people
3. Dallas MSA: 91,039 people
4. Minneapolis MSA: 87,673 people
5. Atlanta MSA: 87,211 people
6. Houston MSA: 82,623 people
7. Boston MSA: 76,602 people
8. Los Angeles MSA: 73,601 people
9. Philadelphia MSA: 58,203 people
10. Chicago MSA: 55,657 people
11. Seattle MSA: 50,039 people
12. Baltimore MSA: 40,185 people
13. Columbus, OH MSA: 37,773 people
14. San Francisco MSA: 31,727 people
15. Denver MSA: 26,308 people

Houston does have the 2nd largest Nigerian population in the US and I know sometimes people get confused by that. Houston's Africans are mainly West African and DFW's Africans are mainly East Africa.

What matters isn't so much the data above but O&D traffic and Houston has a lot more O&D to Africa than DFW.

The ET flight to IAH mainly exists to serve the oil and gas industry in Nigeria, Malabo, Pointe Noir, etc. Its not aimed at VFR.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
mfe777
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:45 pm

Ok, I guess I will have to believe numbers out of thin air and I'm dumb for not believing statements out of thin air! Wonderful! Can't wait to take the invisible plane from IAH to ICN this summer on InvisiAir! Maybe Invisiair will add flights to Madrid too.

And I said DFW has more "East Asians especially Koreans and Japanese" which is true. Houston has more Southeast Asians.
 
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drerx7
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:52 pm

What a fool. The numbers aren't made up. Where are your supporting numbers mfe?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:56 pm

drerx7 wrote:
What a fool. The numbers aren't made up. Where are your supporting numbers mfe?


I never said any numbers, nor have I been presented any. I'm not a fool for not accepting "just believe me." I never stated any hard numbers, nor have I been presented any. I don't know any of you personally so how am I supposed to believe information with nothing backing it up? Why are people attacking me for not accepting "facts" out of thin air? It's bordering on bullying. Let's have a healthy discussion here but please refrain from personal attacks.

This forum is getting outrageous. One time, I pointed out an opportunity for Air France to return to DFW. Thread locked, mainly due to Houston people coming on the thread and causing a raucous. Then, shortly after, Air France announces the service and it was locked because some of the same people had a fit because I titled it "DFW-CDG" instead of "CDG-DFW." This place is a circus.

This post was about why United lacks transpac service from IAH..... I pointed out some possibilities and was attacked and called a fool for not believing numbers with zero citiation. This place is getting ridiculous and I don't even know how to respond expect with comedy..... so I will end participation in this discussion and return to planning my next InvisiAir flight out of IAH. Good day.
Last edited by mfe777 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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drerx7
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:01 pm

Dude, you are ignoring any numbers provided, that can be substantiated. You just don't like the numbers. So no...we can't have a healthy discussion here when faced with obstinacy. You arent even discussing anything with any sound logic.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:04 pm

mfe777 wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
What a fool. The numbers aren't made up. Where are your supporting numbers mfe?


I never said any numbers, nor have I been presented any. I'm not a fool for not accepting "just believe me." I never stated any hard numbers, nor have I been presented any. I don't know any of you personally so how am I supposed to believe information with nothing backing it up? Why are people attacking me for not accepting "facts" out of thin air? It's bordering on bullying. Let's have a healthy discussion here but please refrain from personal attacks.

This forum is getting outrageous. One time, I pointed out an opportunity for Air France to return to DFW. Thread locked, mainly due to Houston people coming on the thread and causing a raucous. Then, shortly after, Air France announces the service and it was locked because some of the same people had a fit because I titles it "DFW-CDG" instead of "CDG-DFW." This place is a circus.

This post was about why United lacks transpac service from IAH..... I pointed out some possibilities and was attacked and called a fool for not believing numbers with zero citiation. This place is getting ridiculous and I don't even know how to respond expect with comedy..... so I will end participation in this discussion and return to planning my next InvisiAir flight out of IAH. Good day.


You can click on the link I gave you.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
mfe777
Posts: 279
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:04 pm

drerx7 wrote:
Dude, you are ignoring any numbers provided, that can be substantiated. You just don't like the numbers. So no...we can't have a healthy discussion here when faced with obstinacy. You arent even discussing anything with any sound logic.


Substantiated? Substantiate them then! Again, a circus.
 
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drerx7
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Re: Why there is no UA's transpacific routes from IAH except Tokyo NRT and Sydney, Australia?

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:06 pm

Did you click the link provided?
HOUSTON, TEXAS

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