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N717TW
Posts: 545
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:18 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:

The many references to TWA, I think are instructive as to the viability of US to Egypt services.


Different times, different market realities. TWA cut a LOT of TATL service as it slowly died, but CAI stayed until the bitter end. Why's that?


The JFK-CAI-RUH flight was among the most profitable routes for TWA in the late 90s. The CAI-RUH leg was in particular a printing press--something TWA didn't otherwise have any of, if we're honest.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:32 pm

The big tourism destination of Sharm El Sheikh was badly hit when the UK government banned flights to SSH on 4 November 2015. The UK government has not advised against travel to the resort itself but as the flight ban is still in place, the British tourist numbers are down considerably.
 
catiii
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:35 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
hohd wrote:
Lots of Americans go to Egypt ? Last time I went which was about 3 years ago to Cairo, there were hardly any tourists. Americans (except for VFR) don't travel very far for tourism in general anyway as compared to Europeans or even Canadians.


It's improved slightly. I went in September last year. The locals told me that the big holdouts still to come back are UK & US.


Same experience as me. I was there last September as well, and when going through customs the agent joked that he doesn’t see many Americans any ore.

It is a spectacular country though. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:43 am

catiii wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
hohd wrote:
Lots of Americans go to Egypt ? Last time I went which was about 3 years ago to Cairo, there were hardly any tourists. Americans (except for VFR) don't travel very far for tourism in general anyway as compared to Europeans or even Canadians.


It's improved slightly. I went in September last year. The locals told me that the big holdouts still to come back are UK & US.


Same experience as me. I was there last September as well, and when going through customs the agent joked that he doesn’t see many Americans any ore.

It is a spectacular country though. Thoroughly enjoyed it.


I went on a Nile cruise with a buddy. There were maybe 80 people total on the boat. Six (including the two of us) spoke English as their primary language.

Its sad really. I had a great time in Egypt. I hope people start traveling there more from the UK/US. I get the safety concerns, but think its a bit overstated.
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 1445
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:33 am

Forgetting all the risk factors the difference between Israel and Egypt is all the business travel.

When Americans start going back to Egypt it’ll be for tourism. Israel has much better mix. One of the best place in the world to do business if you have innovative as part of your value proposition.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4177
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:47 am

Mortyman wrote:
Why is no one of the US majors flying to Egypt ?

Has anyone of them ever ?

Yes, Pan Am. And they met with Disaster too. That's Why there are so many restrictions in the USA. A few of the 9/11 hijackers were Egyptian as well as Saudi.
Many feel we should have returned the favor.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:36 pm

With Tauck and Adventures by Disney returning to Egypt in 2020, I feel that Delta should restart it's flights from New York JFK to Cairo and EgyptAir should launch flights from Cairo to Chicago O Hare.
 
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enilria
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:23 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
With Tauck and Adventures by Disney returning to Egypt in 2020, I feel that Delta should restart it's flights from New York JFK to Cairo and EgyptAir should launch flights from Cairo to Chicago O Hare.

Reasons I doubt it. 1) terror concerns. There was just something going on a week ago with foreign carriers suspending flights. 2) it’s all leisure and low yield. 3) the US3 are happier to force connects over alliance hubs where they can be more selective with yield rather than having to take anybody going to Egypt they can to fill the plane.
 
strfyr51
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:51 pm

ewt340 wrote:
To be fair, US3 doesn't have strong presence in North Africa or the Middle East. They served some destinations, but not as extensive. They also doesn't necessarily have the same historical ties to those areas compared to Europe or Asia.

Besides, they face stiff competition from European Airlines and ME3.

the US3 are all tied TO EU airlines by Alliances. they do not have to directly serve Africa as long as their European partners serve Africa..
 
texdravid
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:04 pm

No one wants to go with the fear of Islamic terrorism in the back of their minds.

Americans are a target in the ME. It’s just too risky.

TWA flew 741’s in the 80s JFK-CAI-KWI-BOM.

In May 1985 I flew that route. Unfortunately the 741’s were already dogs, with mechanical in KWI causing major delay. Missed our connection to MAA. Started at DFW.

Thank God for one stop DFW- MAA these days.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
x1234
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:16 pm

Exactly. The US3 is VERY risk adverse after 9/11 and I would doubt they would fly to a Muslim majority nation without significant J traffic. The only flights recently that the US3 flew were UA's flights to KWI/DXB/DOH out of IAD and DL's venture into DXB. Without significant J traffic the risk is not worth it. With the rise of the ME3 they don't need to service the Middle East themselves and any government/Fly America traffic can go onto their EU partners.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:31 pm

x1234 wrote:
Exactly. The US3 is VERY risk adverse after 9/11 and I would doubt they would fly to a Muslim majority nation without significant J traffic. The only flights recently that the US3 flew were UA's flights to KWI/DXB/DOH out of IAD and DL's venture into DXB. Without significant J traffic the risk is not worth it. With the rise of the ME3 they don't need to service the Middle East themselves and any government/Fly America traffic can go onto their EU partners.

Delta flew from New York JFK to Cairo from 2008-2011.
 
klwright69
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:46 pm

I am wondering how many commenting here have actually been to Egypt? Well, I have. No. Religion, 9/11/, and other sidebar factors are not relevant. Even the Arab Spring is moving farther into the past. Egypt has its flag carrier to the USA, and is well covered by European partner carriers. I am American and I have been to Egypt as a tourist. I never seemed to encounter any other Americans when I was in Egypt. And I also felt safe. Egypt is far from the USA. Not a lot of tourists or business travel. And the few Americans going to Egypt will pay more for a US carrier to go nonstop? Not likely. The middle east in general is well covered by entrenched incumbent airlines, it holds no interest for US carriers at this time (I am not talking about TLV-it's a special case). Even excluding the ME3 there is also TK and RJ.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:57 pm

About 10 years ago, were there lots of American tourists that went to Egypt.
 
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airzim
Posts: 1418
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:43 pm

x1234 wrote:
Exactly. The US3 is VERY risk adverse after 9/11 and I would doubt they would fly to a Muslim majority nation without significant J traffic. The only flights recently that the US3 flew were UA's flights to KWI/DXB/DOH out of IAD and DL's venture into DXB. Without significant J traffic the risk is not worth it. With the rise of the ME3 they don't need to service the Middle East themselves and any government/Fly America traffic can go onto their EU partners.


Hardly true. The world's second largest Muslim population nation is.......India. UA will resume very shortly. DL, legacy UA, NW, and AA all served at one time post 9/11.

DL serves Dakar, Senegal. Majority Muslim.

UA and DL both served Turkey recently. DL also tried Amman, Jordan.

CO/UA served Nigeria post 9/11.

ArchGuy has got something about Egypt hence him opening 7 old threads in the last few days all on the same subject, with all the same answers.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:57 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
US Companies are still a target in places like Egypt vs say EK. Now it is easy to hub at Dubai or LHR or similar. Hubbing still makes great sense when the hub is along the flight path of a direct flight verses way out of the way. Hardly anyone files EK for US to Europe as you fly past your destination by a few hours only to fly back.

The total of 1,000 or so passengers each day on MXP-EWR and ATH-EWR and vice versa would respectfully disagree with you.

Do you actually think those routes go via Dubai?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3483
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:11 pm

Egypt is very overrated as a tourism destination, IMHO. The historical aspect is interesting but I found the constant hassle and the local view of westerners as walking money bags to be extremely tiring. Additionally, from what I have seen of Cairo airport security it would probably be one the easiest places to slip something nefarious onto aircraft so it is good that the US3 don't fly there.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:19 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Egypt is very overrated as a tourism destination, IMHO. The historical aspect is interesting but I found the constant hassle and the local view of westerners as walking money bags to be extremely tiring. Additionally, from what I have seen of Cairo airport security it would probably be one the easiest places to slip something nefarious onto aircraft so it is good that the US3 don't fly there.

When did you visit the airport in Cairo and I do know that Delta flew New York JFK to Cairo non-stop in both directions between 2008 and 2011.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:28 pm

cedarjet wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
US Companies are still a target in places like Egypt vs say EK. Now it is easy to hub at Dubai or LHR or similar. Hubbing still makes great sense when the hub is along the flight path of a direct flight verses way out of the way. Hardly anyone files EK for US to Europe as you fly past your destination by a few hours only to fly back.

The total of 1,000 or so passengers each day on MXP-EWR and ATH-EWR and vice versa would respectfully disagree with you.

Do you actually think those routes go via Dubai?


Yes,he clearly does think these routes are MXP-DXB-EWR and ATH-DXB-EWR. But the real question is why are you bringing this up five months later?
 
PDXpat
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:34 am

BostonBeau wrote:
Both Delta and United fly to Tel Aviv. Delta fly to some other African destinations but not in North Africa.
And Of course American doesn't fly anywhere around these areas.[/quote]

Isn't there some sort of legal reason that AA doesn't fly to Tel Aviv? I vaguely remember that TWA had some sort of financial dispute, and they were afraid an aircraft would be seized if they served Tel Aviv any longer. Would that dispute have passed on to AA?[/quote]

Rembember, AA did announced new service to Casablanca. And in the same big route announcement the introduced DFW-TLV. The TWA-Israel legal issue, if it ever really existed -- is moot.
 
JUANTRIPPEJR
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:31 am

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:25 am

Pan Am used to fly to Cairo around 1983 (when I was a student at the American University in Cairo). It operated from FCO with a locally based B737. Some flights were via Beirut, but that didn't last long. I remember the flight attendant making announcements about the Sound & Light show at the pyramids. TWA at the time had a B747 flight operating JFK-FCO-ATH-CAI. Later, TWA B747SPs operated JFK-CAI-JFK non-stop.
 
TheWorm123
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:29 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:46 pm

Did Flight 990 have any effect on US tourism to Egypt once the co-pilots actions were revealed? A lot of the passengers on that 767 were American tourists.
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