Dieuwer
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"International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:03 pm

I have seen dozens of airports with names like "XYZ International Airport" that have NO international service whatsoever. What is the reason of using such a name? Ego? A once-at-a-time international route but no longer? Hoping to attract international service?
If none of the above, I really think those airports should drop the "international" from their names. Otherwise, it would just be a falsehood.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:07 pm

Can you give us any examples?
 
bigb
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:07 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have seen dozens of airports with names like "XYZ International Airport" that have NO international service whatsoever. What is the reason of using such a name? Ego? A once-at-a-time international route but no longer? Hoping to attract international service?
If none of the above, I really think those airports should drop the "international" from their names. Otherwise, it would just be a falsehood.


It’s not about having commercial services but more so having the ability of handling international arrivals with customs with GA traffic included.


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cathay747
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:10 pm

Location
City: South Bend, Indiana, United States
Name: South Bend International Airport
ICAO: KSBN
IATA: SBN

It used to be named "Michiana Regional Airport" years ago, don't know when it was renamed. And if SBN has FIS facilities, it would be news to me. Is there such a things as "on demand"/"by appointment" FIS??
Last edited by cathay747 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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barney captain
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:10 pm

It simply means they have customs available - even if they're only on call and not based at the airport.

And yes, there's definitely some marketing involved as well.
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Dieuwer
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:15 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
Can you give us any examples?


ALB, BOI, GSO, PIA, ROC, etc.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bigb
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:21 pm

We just answered your question


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alancostello
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:26 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Location
City: South Bend, Indiana, United States
Name: South Bend International Airport
ICAO: KSBN
IATA: SBN

It used to be named "Michiana Regional Airport" years ago, don't know when it was renamed. And if SBN has FIS facilities, it would be news to me. Is there such a things as "on demand"/"by appointment" FIS??


South Bend actually does have CBP now, both in terminal and for general aviation, however no regularly scheduled flights make use of it.

https://flysbn.com/sbn/general-aviation/
Last edited by alancostello on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:28 pm

Several airports in Mexico also do this, e.g. TGZ, VSA, etc.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:28 pm

DAY has had intermittent service to YYZ on AC over the years, but it's been about 10 years since the last time it operated.
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Dieuwer
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:30 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
DAY has had intermittent service to YYZ on AC over the years, but it's been about 10 years since the last time it operated.


JAX seem to lose its AC flight too.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:40 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Is there such a things as "on demand"/"by appointment" FIS??


I believe to have the term "International" you just have to have the "ability" to process Int'l arrivals. Doesn't have to be a nice shiny FIS attached to the terminal. It could just be having CBP agents on-call or by appointment.

ILM is another airport with an Int'l designation but no Int'l flights. It's most definitely a designation airports want for marketing. "Wilmington International Airport" sounds much better than say "Wilmington Regional Airport". When people hear "Regional" they think of small or prop planes, few flights, and high fares.
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YYZORD
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:41 pm

Pretty much every US airport that lost it's AC YYZ service lol
 
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usxguy
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:42 pm

Juneau - just charters
xx
 
DesertAir
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:47 pm

Tucson International Airport-just domestic.
Years ago they had daily service on AMX to Hermosillo.
 
Kronesian
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:47 pm

FPR. It doesn't have any scheduled air service either. I imagine there are plenty of GA international traffic, though.
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sw733
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:49 pm

As already mentioned, there are many of these. Since I currently live in Kansas, I'll bring up one closest to me - Wichita.

This page has a good listing of airports with a CBP presence, many of which don't have international scheduled flights. But, they can accept charters and private flights.

https://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports
Last edited by sw733 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mspeaumsn
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:51 pm

DSM, OMA, GRB, and DLH are some from around the upper midwest.
 
Rookinla
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:58 pm

OCF - Ocala FL. No commercial service whatsoever but has one CBP officer on staff for Cargo and equine flights.
 
SmithAir747
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Fort Wayne International Airport (FWA) in Fort Wayne, IN, is another example.

SmithAir747
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SmithAir747
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Fort Wayne International Airport (FWA) in Fort Wayne, IN, is another example.

SmithAir747
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Cubsrule
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:01 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
ILM is another airport with an Int'l designation but no Int'l flights. It's most definitely a designation airports want for marketing. "Wilmington International Airport" sounds much better than say "Wilmington Regional Airport". When people hear "Regional" they think of small or prop planes, few flights, and high fares.


ILM actually does a fair amount of GA FIS for aircraft headed up from the Caribbean to airports without FIS. Here's an example from yesterday (BTP-MHH southbound, MHH-ILM-BTP northbound).
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727LOVER
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:02 pm

On the flip side....
DFW had INTL service well before the airport got renamed from REGIONAL to INTERNATIONAL
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ikramerica
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:15 pm

Many are close to canada where they can serve canadian flights. Also if FIS is available (by appointment) they can serve international charters and GA.
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mtnwest1979
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:19 pm

For a good one, look up Echkart Intl in Pirt Hill,ID.

When I worked at Midland International Air & Space Port in TX, they had a CPB guy that would go out and meet the various biz traffic that would come in from MX or Canada to clear. Talk about gradiose naming......
Last edited by mtnwest1979 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EBiafore99
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:22 pm

To go a little bit further on the question...does it even make sense to have all of these smaller airports with FIS and/or CBP services so they can get "Int'l"? Personally, I say no, mainly because it stretches out the already limited resources available. Let's take an airport with CBP for one international flight a day. You are staffing a CBP crew (agents, supervisor) for one flight? Moving the staff to an airport with several international flights would be much more productive.

I live in Michigan...FNT and MBS are both "International" airports. Both are within 75 miles of each other. Do both really need the "International" designation?
 
johns624
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:30 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:

I live in Michigan...FNT and MBS are both "International" airports. Both are within 75 miles of each other. Do both really need the "International" designation?
I'm sure that they just send somebody from DTW or LAN, both of which have CBP staff.
 
masgniw
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:40 pm

ABQ ("Albuquerque International Sunport") -- but they'll have service to Guadalajara starting this summer.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:44 pm

Jefferson County International Airport, Port Townsend, WA. It was an International Airport even before they paved the runway. A decent amount of GA traffic there out to the Washington and BC islands. On the islands they are often so small that there is a single sani-can for the restroom. Just a IATA code of TWD, no ICAO code.

http://portofpt.com/air-services/jeffer ... l-airport/
 
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Flyingdevil737
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:26 pm

City: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Airport: Hobart International Airport
ICAO:YMHB
IATA:HBA

Although we should get a service to New Zealand sometime soon.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:04 pm

Flyingdevil737 wrote:
City: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Airport: Hobart International Airport
ICAO:YMHB
IATA:HBA

Although we should get a service to New Zealand sometime soon.


Years ago, Hobart had a non-stop to CHC so it has been International in the past.
 
jbmitt
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:15 pm

mspeaumsn wrote:
DSM, OMA, GRB, and DLH are some from around the upper midwest.


I know that DSM has an office for CBP but it isn’t normally staffed. For scheduled charters and business traffic, agents are brought in from other locations. MSP, MCI, or MLI.
 
airlineworker
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:29 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
Can you give us any examples?


ERI, BTV, ABE,ILM. I don't count Canada. It's a civic pride thing.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:57 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have seen dozens of airports with names like "XYZ International Airport" that have NO international service whatsoever. What is the reason of using such a name? Ego? A once-at-a-time international route but no longer? Hoping to attract international service?
If none of the above, I really think those airports should drop the "international" from their names. Otherwise, it would just be a falsehood.

ERI, BTV, ABE,ILM
I have absolutely no idea where these codes are, but I'll take a wild guess at somewhere in the US.

Hence I was going to suggest this was purely an American thing. :duck:
But then I unearthed these gems.
CBG - Cambridge International Airport (Cambridge, UK) doesn't have much traffic at all, with just one international service to Gothenburg (Sweden) four times a week, using a BA/Sun Air Dornier 328Jet (BA8235/8236)

On paper it just about qualifies.
However, tickets for these flights are not available to members of the general public. :rotfl:

The island of Jamaica features Ian Fleming International Airport (OCJ) which is even quieter with no scheduled services whatsoever (neither domestic nor international) The fact that there are no hits on the photo database except a single Bell206, tells it's own story. Either that, or the place is so exclusive that no a.netters have managed to get near it yet. :lol:

At the other end of things, Kuwait International Airport is more than entitled to carry that name, as there are no other airports in Kuwait, and thus everything is international.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Okie
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:41 am

cathay747 wrote:
Is there such a things as "on demand"/"by appointment" FIS??

Yes, KDAL being one for a fee of course. Maximum of 10 including crew.
Usually 8:30a to 5:00p by appointment.
Other hours additional fee again by appointment.

The facility also has to have the ability to dispose/incinerate regulated trash and food stuffs from foreign countries. You guessed it for a fee also.

mtnwest1979 wrote:
When I worked at Midland International Air & Space Port in TX,

Shhhh!!!!!!!!
We have Will Rogers World Airport at OKC, once the airport director hears that we will be naming it Intergalactic Airport.


Okie
 
josciak
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 am

KACY-Atlantic City International Airport in NJ
 
crownvic
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:04 am

josciak wrote:
KACY-Atlantic City International Airport in NJ


They have had Canadian service on and off for the past 40 years. They have received diversions from PHL, EWR, LGA and JFK (including Concorde!) over the years and do have on demand Customs. Finally and I bet none of the readers on this post knew this, but an airline back in the 80s called SkyStar Int'l ran a few 707 church charters from ACY to Rome nonstop. They also had charter flights to Bermuda on Airfleets Int'l DC-8s and several operators flew to the Bahamas on charters back in the 80s.
 
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CollegeAviator
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:44 am

Grand Forks and Fargo come to mind from here in ND - both have CBP facilities, but on the rare occasion there is a charter from Canada, but that;s about it...
 
rrbsztk
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:34 am

RST is another one. I believe they just expanded or are expanding the customs facilities. Rochester doesn't have any schedule international passenger or cargo flights to my knowledge, but mayo clinic generates a lot of private traffic
 
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conaly
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:11 pm

Osaka Itami (ITM) is officially called "Osaka International Airport", although it has been serving only domestic routes after "Kansai International Airport" aka Osaka Kansai (KIX) has commenced operation. Reason is simple: it was an international before and afterwards they kept the name. As both airports are normally referred to by "Kansai" and "Itami" respectively, there if no need to do any costly changes.
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77H
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:55 pm

A little off topic but what is the driver behind staffing CBP agents at many of the small secondary and tertiary airports in the US like FWA, GRB and SBN when the staff and financial resources maintaining such services could be allocated elsewhere?

I’m sure many of us have US CBP “horror stories” at large gateways where the root cause often seems to be inadequate staffing due budget constraints.
Wouldn’t the American Public be better served by reassigning CBP agents in places like FWA or SBN to ORD for instance?

77H
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 pm

Reagan National (on the other flip side) has flights to Canada. However, I assume with pre-clearance, DCA may not need CBP (and may not have it?) so it is designated as such.
 
nws2002
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:07 pm

In the US, customs requires advance notice of flights through both APIS and at least for GA flights a notification before departing the international origin for the US. Many of the airports with customs are on-call and some are user fee and/or landing rights airports. Landing rights airports often require 24-48 hour notice and user fee airports there are charges to cover the costs of customs providing services there.
 
cofannyc
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:06 pm

77H wrote:
A little off topic but what is the driver behind staffing CBP agents at many of the small secondary and tertiary airports in the US like FWA, GRB and SBN when the staff and financial resources maintaining such services could be allocated elsewhere?

I’m sure many of us have US CBP “horror stories” at large gateways where the root cause often seems to be inadequate staffing due budget constraints.
Wouldn’t the American Public be better served by reassigning CBP agents in places like FWA or SBN to ORD for instance?

77H


Many airports that can handle international flights do not have CBP agents staffed there. Rather they come from another port of entry when there is an international GA or charter flight planned.
 
N0dak
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:47 pm

Here's a fun story for you all. In the Chicago suburbs you'll find Bolingbrook's Clow International Airport (1C5). It has a single 3300' runway with no customs at all (on call or otherwise). The story is when the airport was privately owned, the owner jokingly referred to his "international airport" and the name stuck.
 
blueflyer
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:54 pm

In the US, the inclusion of "international" in an airport name means absolutely nothing and does not (and should not) imply the availability of any immigration and/or customs services whatsoever. It is purely a marketing decision by the owner/operator of the airport. There is nothing preventing an airport with no history and no future prospect of trans-border service from calling itself an international airport if it chooses to.

There is an official designation and a finite list of "international airport" in CFR Title 19, however it does not affect the name of an airport, and does not bar any airport not on the list from calling itself international. Airports designated as "international" in Title 19 are located near a border, and provide customs services at no charge. Some of the best-known international airports in the US are not designated as "international" by Title 19, such as ORD, DFW, or JFK...

To determine what services an airport provides to international flights, one would have to know whether the airport is a port of entry, a landing rights airport, or a user fees airport.

EBiafore99 wrote:
To go a little bit further on the question...does it even make sense to have all of these smaller airports with FIS and/or CBP services so they can get "Int'l"?

They are most likely user fee airports, meaning CBP has determined they do not have enough traffic to receive CBP services however the airport has requested CBP services and agreed to pay for the full cost (and met a few other conditions).

CarlosSi wrote:
Reagan National (on the other flip side) has flights to Canada. However, I assume with pre-clearance, DCA may not need CBP (and may not have it?) so it is designated as such.

I don't remember the exact extent, however airports with no international flights other than pre-cleared flights still require some sort of CBP presence (either onsite or at a nearby CBP station), even if passengers don't notice. In any case, DCA is a customs landing rights airport, so an "international" airport.
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ojjunior
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:51 am

CGH Congonhas International Airport hasn't seen an scheduled intl service for decades.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:44 pm

airlineworker wrote:
FredrikHAD wrote:
Can you give us any examples?


ERI, BTV, ABE,ILM. I don't count Canada. It's a civic pride thing.


BTV had scheduled seasonal service from YTZ on Porter for the past few years. It also gets around 3-4 international GA arrivals per day according to Flightaware plus regular untracked GA and military/government arrivals. According to the web site CBP is staffed 8am-8pm daily.
 
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ER757
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:41 am

N0dak wrote:
Here's a fun story for you all. In the Chicago suburbs you'll find Bolingbrook's Clow International Airport (1C5). It has a single 3300' runway with no customs at all (on call or otherwise). The story is when the airport was privately owned, the owner jokingly referred to his "international airport" and the name stuck.

I not only have heard of Clow, I've flown in and out of there. A friend I had when I lived back in the Chicago area was a GA pilot - we'd fly out of ARR (Aurora, which is actually in Sugar Grove) in his Warrior and we went into all the little regional airports - even flew into MDW once for lunch. Was in the late 70's when there was very little commercial traffic there. IIRC, Clow was an un-controlled field. He later moved to Mesa, AZ and when I visited him there we flew from Mesa to Gasa Grande and while we were out over the desert he let me take the controls for a while. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: "International Airport" with NO international service

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:19 am

Bakersfield International Airport at Meadows Field (BFL) has an international facility built for Mexicana, who at one point had 4x weekly to GDL. Then the economy tanked, and the market vanished, and the facility has only been used periodically for general aviation.

The old terminal was converted into an international facility after domestic passenger service was moved to a brand-new facility in 2005.

Image

Here's a shot from the short but glorious period of time ExpressJet flew SAN-BFL. I have a boarding pass somewhere detailing my flight from "Bakersfield International Airport".

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