treetreeseven
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$1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:41 pm

The suit names the dog's owner, the Port of Portland (operator of PDX), and Alaska Airlines as defendants.

The dog was not in its carrier inside the airport, for which the owner was cited at the time. The attack left the girl with injuries which required surgery, and left permanent scars on her face.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/02 ... -says.html
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:58 pm

Pitbulls need to be banned
CL CRJ9, W6 A320
 
WN732
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:03 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


"But they are good dogs, it's just bad people raising them. They are so sweet, blah blah blah." Just like the Galaxy Note 7, they should not fly.
 
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United787
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:03 pm

Animals need to be kept in cages for the entire duration including airport. The cage needs to fit under the seat in front of them. If the cage/animal is too big, then it gets checked. PERIOD. If the airlines aren't going to crack down harder then they should have their asses handed to them in court.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:06 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


+1. I was in my local Starbucks the other day when some woman walks in with a pitbull (allegedly a service animal, but I strongly doubt it given the way it behaved). She began feeding it a banana. While it appeared docile enough, I would NOT have wanted to sit next to it on an airplane.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:09 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


+1. I was in my local Starbucks the other day when some woman walks in with a pitbull (allegedly a service animal, but I strongly doubt it given the way it behaved). She began feeding it a banana. While it appeared docile enough, I would NOT have wanted to sit next to it on an airplane.


+1. All dogs that eat bananas turn rabid, it's a scientific fact. I read it on wikipedia while at Starbucks.
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:10 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned

I've seen very well-behaved pit bulls. I've also seen small dogs bark and lunge at children in the airport. I even recall seeing in a magazine that some actress was afraid of beagles because she got attacked by one as a child.

Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
winginit
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.


This is a great post. I'm actually a bit disappointed here that this lawsuit doesn't target the origin of the ESA letter be that a website or a doctor or what have you.

There's a great 'Today, Explained' podcast on this issue here that does a good job of tackling the issue. Taught me first and foremost that the science isn't even really clear when it comes to any medical benefits of an emotional support animal.

Service dogs only, with the doctor who issued the necessary paperwork consenting to legal liability if something like this goes wrong. That's where I think we need to go.
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals.


Yep. "Dog culture" is getting out of hand. People need to understand that dogs are just normal animals. Some cat owners have this mindset as well, just with cats of course, but it seems that it's the most dominant in dog owners
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SCQ83
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:39 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


Indeed. Quite a few countries, from Israel to the United Arab Emirates, ban pitbulls and other dangerous dogs. I never understood the appeal of those dogs.
 
bennett123
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:44 pm

Having had a cat, would not want to put it in a cage if this could be avoided.

He used put on four feet on the edge of the basket and lock his back

That was one mean pussy cat.
 
Flaps
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:45 pm

I'm not going to pick on any particular breeds nor dogs in general as it is an owner problem. Airports are stressful environments for everyone. Especially so for an animal. Lots of strange noises, activities, scents and people in a totally foreign environment. Animals can detect peoples emotions on a much higher level than the typical human and this can feed strongly into their behavior.

As an airline manager I deal with these animal situations on a daily basis. True support animals are never a problem. They are trained and exposed to all types of situations and behave accordingly at all times. Their owners are trained and know how to handle various situations. Somewhat surprisingly pets are not typically a problem either. I don't have a a hard theory as to why other than possibly the fact that someone has paid for their pet and is following the rules just indicates a more responsible person. ESAN's however cause the vast majority of problems and again its the owner not the animal.

A true emotional support animal that has been trained will generally behave much like a service animal. It is the pets that people try to pass off as ESAN'S that are the issue the vast majority of the time. Owners that are willing to lie about the status of their animal and produce fake documentation are generally the same people that have no regard for rules and other people in the first place, in any aspect of their lives. They feel they are above the rules, the world doesn't exist outside their little "me" bubble and they don't train or control their animals or have any respect for others.

Airlines are starting to get tougher. Despite my being a huge animal lover and supporter, they can't get rid of the emotional support animal classification fast enough. A true emotional support animal should have to meet the same stringent standards, training and certifications of a true support animal.
 
horsepowerchef
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:49 pm

...but what about my emotional support nest of angry wasps?
 
ual763
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:53 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Having had a cat, would not want to put it in a cage if this could be avoided.

He used put on four feet on the edge of the basket and lock his back

That was one mean pussy cat.


My cat does the same thing. Vet taught me to wrap her up in a towel so she can’t see and then put her and towel together in carrier! Has worked so far. But, regardless, I just don’t travel with her. She doesn’t like being anywhere other than home anyways.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
Passedv1
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:59 pm

I think they have to crack down on the doctors. Treat it like prescription of controlled substances, if your prescription is without medical basis, then your license is in jeopardy.
 
klm617
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:59 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned

I've seen very well-behaved pit bulls. I've also seen small dogs bark and lunge at children in the airport. I even recall seeing in a magazine that some actress was afraid of beagles because she got attacked by one as a child.

Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.


Kind of like medical Marijuana.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
khobar95
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:00 pm

'“The traveler need only answer those questions, and we’re required to accept the answer,” Simonds said in an email. She added that officials don’t ask for documentation of the animal’s training.'

That is a big part of the problem. Imagine if someone wanted to take a rabid dog with them and all that was required to get on board was the owner's word that the dog was healthy?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:04 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.

Honestly, if someone truly needs an ESA (and not a Service Dog) to travel, they have severe mental issues and should not travel using public transportation, let alone air travel (which is much more stressful than other forms of public transportation such as rail or coach).
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:06 pm

winginit wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.


This is a great post. I'm actually a bit disappointed here that this lawsuit doesn't target the origin of the ESA letter be that a website or a doctor or what have you.

There's a great 'Today, Explained' podcast on this issue here that does a good job of tackling the issue. Taught me first and foremost that the science isn't even really clear when it comes to any medical benefits of an emotional support animal.

Service dogs only, with the doctor who issued the necessary paperwork consenting to legal liability if something like this goes wrong. That's where I think we need to go.


I hadn't thought about making the doctor issuing the paperwork legally liable if the ESA harms someone, but this is a FANTASTIC idea. If the doctor truly believes that the dog won't harm anyone, then they should be willing to risk losing their house, their Mercedes, their golf clubs, etc. If the doctor isn't willing to accept some of the risk, they shouldn't sign off on the ESA authorization.

I freely admit that I have a strong bias here. I was mauled on a playground by a dog when I was 6 years old (fortunately, without permanent physical scarring). For many years afterward, I was terrified of dogs, and although my fears have gone away somewhat, I'm still not totally comfortable around them.

People do not realize that the dogs they take with them into public places to calm their own anxieties are creating anxiety within me and many others who are afraid of dogs.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:08 pm

I think this ESA issue can be resolved only the American way. Few $Million lawsuits will fix the issue.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:17 pm

I love animals and I like pitbulls but I disagree with all this emotional support nonsense.
If you can't be separated from your dog, then you've got two options:
a) You drive. Your car or the rental's
b) You stay at home and spend the travel money on shrinks instead.

I belong to a minority that has fought for equal rights for the last 50 years (Clue: I'm a white male, figure out the growing minority I belong to), and the key word has always been "equal", not MORE rights. People using this emotional support scheme have watched the L'OREAL advert too many times and believe they are worth it and superior to the rest of us.

Looking forward to reading the outcome of this action.
 
Astronage
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:31 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.
 
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rjsampson
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:37 pm

I second the cracking down on ESAs. Interestingly, I mostly fly DL with a Trained Working Service Dog and I guess per the American with Disabilities Act, DL just takes my word for it, which I don't understand. I provide documentation nonetheless.

They key here is TRAINED WSD. Even more important than training the dog to assist with a specific disability, is training the OWNER.

I went through a rigorous, professional training program with my dog (a German Shepherd) and he is an absolutely perfectly behaved. Flying ATL - SAN so often, the crews have gotten familiar with him and are excited whenever he boards. On more than one occasion, the pilots request me to take a picture with him to show their kids :)

That said, the abuse is unacceptable. I often get nasty looks from people, and have been downright rude telling me, "you're just trying to avoid putting him in cargo". Ugh.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
winginit
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:46 pm

rjsampson wrote:
I second the cracking down on ESAs. Interestingly, I mostly fly DL with a Trained Working Service Dog and I guess per the American with Disabilities Act, DL just takes my word for it, which I don't understand. I provide documentation nonetheless.

They key here is TRAINED WSD. Even more important than training the dog to assist with a specific disability, is training the OWNER.

I went through a rigorous, professional training program with my dog (a German Shepherd) and he is an absolutely perfectly behaved. Flying ATL - SAN so often, the crews have gotten familiar with him and are excited whenever he boards. On more than one occasion, the pilots request me to take a picture with him to show their kids :)

That said, the abuse is unacceptable. I often get nasty looks from people, and have been downright rude telling me, "you're just trying to avoid putting him in cargo". Ugh.


May I ask the breed of your dog? I read somewhere once that some very significant percentage of genuinely trained working service dogs were either German Shepherds, Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, or Standard Poodles. I think there's something there towards a step that could be considered around some sort of policy change or legislation that cracks down on things here a bit.
 
ikramerica
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:03 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned

I've seen very well-behaved pit bulls. I've also seen small dogs bark and lunge at children in the airport. I even recall seeing in a magazine that some actress was afraid of beagles because she got attacked by one as a child.

Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.

You can claim small dogs are just as aggressive. That doesnt mean they are as dangerous.

Pit Bulls were bread to hurt humans. They are engineered to do so via genetic manipulation (selective breeding and culling). The have the strength and jaws of a large dog and the agility of a smaller sport dog, with the blood lust of a wolf.
Small dogs were engineered to be small.

Our chihuahua loved to sneak up and bite “invaders” on the achilles. She did it dozens of times. She even drew a drop of blood one time. She was obviously as dangerous as a pitbull.

As a kid there was a pack of loose dogs that turned feral and were killing pets. My cat was killed. We had traps set on our land by animal control, but usually just trapped raccoons that had to be let out. This pack didnt have pitbulls, just random pet dogs that had been abandoned. They killed occasionally.

Compare that to a pack of pits who slaughtered 200 goats in one night: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/04 ... 200-goats/
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ikramerica
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:20 pm

winginit wrote:
rjsampson wrote:
I second the cracking down on ESAs. Interestingly, I mostly fly DL with a Trained Working Service Dog and I guess per the American with Disabilities Act, DL just takes my word for it, which I don't understand. I provide documentation nonetheless.

They key here is TRAINED WSD. Even more important than training the dog to assist with a specific disability, is training the OWNER.

I went through a rigorous, professional training program with my dog (a German Shepherd) and he is an absolutely perfectly behaved. Flying ATL - SAN so often, the crews have gotten familiar with him and are excited whenever he boards. On more than one occasion, the pilots request me to take a picture with him to show their kids :)

That said, the abuse is unacceptable. I often get nasty looks from people, and have been downright rude telling me, "you're just trying to avoid putting him in cargo". Ugh.


May I ask the breed of your dog? I read somewhere once that some very significant percentage of genuinely trained working service dogs were either German Shepherds, Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, or Standard Poodles. I think there's something there towards a step that could be considered around some sort of policy change or legislation that cracks down on things here a bit.

Shepherds were the iconic dog for blind guide dogs, the preferred dog of “the seeing eye” organization. But over time retrievers have proven better choices and now many guide dog groups dont train shepherds at all. Retrievers are more relaxed and shepherds are often triggered by children and cats in ways retrievers arent. And shepherds are taller which causes comfort issues, so selective breeding was used to breed shorter ones, but they were more prone to hip problems early in life. When allergies are an issue, there are boxers that are trained.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:39 pm

ikramerica wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned

I've seen very well-behaved pit bulls. I've also seen small dogs bark and lunge at children in the airport. I even recall seeing in a magazine that some actress was afraid of beagles because she got attacked by one as a child.

Fake ESAN letters are getting out of hand. It's only going to take a Senator's relative getting hurt by one for change to take place.

It stems to what has become an unreasonable attachment to animals. Gone are the days where you paid the neighbor kid $20 to watch your dog while you're away. Now people have to take their great dane with them for their weekend get away because they are 'part of the family'. I understand you love your dog, but having to take them everywhere under false pretenses is clearly doing more harm than good for everyone involved, even for those who legitimately do need an ESAN.

You can claim small dogs are just as aggressive. That doesnt mean they are as dangerous.

Pit Bulls were bread to hurt humans. They are engineered to do so via genetic manipulation (selective breeding and culling). The have the strength and jaws of a large dog and the agility of a smaller sport dog, with the blood lust of a wolf.
Small dogs were engineered to be small.

Our chihuahua loved to sneak up and bite “invaders” on the achilles. She did it dozens of times. She even drew a drop of blood one time. She was obviously as dangerous as a pitbull.

As a kid there was a pack of loose dogs that turned feral and were killing pets. My cat was killed. We had traps set on our land by animal control, but usually just trapped raccoons that had to be let out. This pack didnt have pitbulls, just random pet dogs that had been abandoned. They killed occasionally.

Compare that to a pack of pits who slaughtered 200 goats in one night: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/04 ... 200-goats/

Pit bulls were actually designed by nature to hunt bears in packs. Pit bulls have a bad connotation because they are used by bad people for fighting, along with other muscular breeds like Rottweilers and boxers. Your post contradicts itself because you clearly support my premise that any dog can be a bad dog by referencing the pack of dogs in your neighborhood and your chihuahua.

BTW I totally respect you. You bring a lot of knowledge to this forum, but this post in particular I have to counter.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
ConnectAir
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:03 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
I hadn't thought about making the doctor issuing the paperwork legally liable if the ESA harms someone, but this is a FANTASTIC idea. If the doctor truly believes that the dog won't harm anyone, then they should be willing to risk losing their house, their Mercedes, their golf clubs, etc. If the doctor isn't willing to accept some of the risk, they shouldn't sign off on the ESA authorization.


I am going to admit that I also have a slight bias- I am a Wilderness EMT and am in the process of applying to medical school, but I do not think that a doctor should be held liable for the dog's actions. When a doctor (or other mental health practitioner) writes a letter saying that an emotional support animal is necessary, all they are doing is saying that the person using the ESA has a condition requiring an ESA and an ESA provides as service to the owner. It is not their job to make sure that an ESA is properly trained. That responsibility (or lack thereof) falls on the ESA owner, and as such it should be the ESA owner's responsibility to make sure that they know their dog is going to be safe. It should not be the doctor's role to say that the ESA is safe- that would be the same as saying that a doctor is liable when a doctor prescribes a patient a medication, the patient takes it irresponsibly, and then causes someone harm.

WayexTDI wrote:
Honestly, if someone truly needs an ESA (and not a Service Dog) to travel, they have severe mental issues and should not travel using public transportation, let alone air travel (which is much more stressful than other forms of public transportation such as rail or coach).

Not necessarily. I know several people who have ESA's. One of them has a series of lifelong, chronic medical conditions that cause her incredible (and sometimes debilitating) pain, and can flare up at anytime. She has an ESA not because of any mental health issues, but instead to help her cope with the pain from her many conditions. I know another person who has an ESA as part of his therapy. He has a condition that causes him to have suicidal thoughts but not not actually want to commit suicide, and his therapy is to play with the ESA to try to train his brain to replace those suicidal thoughts with happy ones. For both of those people they don't need their ESA to cope with the act of traveling. Instead, they need their ESA when they get to their destination in order to manage their conditions.
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rjsampson
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:15 am

ikramerica wrote:
Shepherds were the iconic dog for blind guide dogs, the preferred dog of “the seeing eye” organization. But over time retrievers have proven better choices and now many guide dog groups dont train shepherds at all. Retrievers are more relaxed and shepherds are often triggered by children and cats in ways retrievers arent. And shepherds are taller which causes comfort issues, so selective breeding was used to breed shorter ones, but they were more prone to hip problems early in life. When allergies are an issue, there are boxers that are trained.


Lotus (my dog) is actually 50% GSD and 50% Rottweiler. People freak out about Rottweilers, but they are some of the most calm breeds out there. They were bred solely to pull carts of meat between towns in Germany.

Both breeds are extremely intelligent, and hybrids tend to have even higher intelligence than their parents (such is the case with Lotus. To the point its annoying sometimes. Not only can he open doors, but he's learned how to unlock them as well. For the life of me, I can NEVER go to the bathroom in peace. He insists on joining me every time. Dogs have some weird traits lol).

Also, as a hybrid he'll have fewer health problems.

To your point, however: Size. He just turned 2 and he's already a big boy (85 lbs) and getting taller. Bulkhead seats are a must. If he has any faults, he loves everyone, especially children. I let people pet him and, especially the kids, end up getting showered with slobber. I remember one time, the airline couldn't get us into a bulkhead, so they moved people around such that we had an entire row in the back. Getting back there was an adventure. Carry on bag in my right hand, Lotus' leash in my left down a skinny 737 aisle. And most of the seated aisle passengers were like "what a cute dog! Can I pet him?" and Lotus was loving every minute of it. Thank God I was one of the last to board... Must've taken 5 minutes to get to the seat.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:20 am

rjsampson wrote:
Lotus (my dog) is actually 50% GSD and 50% Rottweiler.


I once met a dog half rott, half husky. He was as big and mean looking as he was sweet and playful. Also my sister in law has a staffordshire bullterrier and, other than being a brute when playing and having a big ass jaw, is also pretty harmless. I will always blame the owner rather than the dog. Gimme a pitbull any day, if I can raise it properly, it's not gonna harm anything.

Maybe besides the doctors order airlines should at least ask for some certificate on the doggy side. ESA just make it sound lilke regular dogs.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
ExpatVet
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:35 am

Not that I want to get in the way of all the dog bashing, but according to the article, the mother had left her child unsupervised (with another of her kids) while she went off to get a Starbucks.

ESA or not, don't leave your kids unsupervised in an airport. I mean, really.
L101, 733/4/5/8, 741/2/3 (never managed 744!), MD 80/2/3/8/90, MD11, DHC8/3/Q4, E170, E195, 757, 77W, 763/4, Travel Air 2000. A300/310, A319/320/321, A333, ATR-72, probably a few others I forget. Passenger, not pilot, alas! BUD based.
 
seat64k
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:40 am

rjsampson wrote:
Not only can he open doors, but he's learned how to unlock them as well.


That, by the way, is a German Shepherd speciality. I grew up with German Shepherds and Labradors - we had maybe a dozen of each throughout my childhood (large yard, and my dad was a bit of a dog enthusiast). Every single German Shepherd, at some point in their life, figured out how to unlock the gate. What amused me was that it didn't seem like they were trying in order to get out. The fence was erected to keep small children in the yard - the dogs could jump it without trying. No, it seemed more like the German Shepherds were drawn to the intellectual puzzle.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:17 pm

Some of the ESA blame lies with the airlines and rediculous fees. My 9 pound dog fits comfortably in her carrier underneath the seat in front and for that it costs $250 round trip... that jumps to $300 round trip if you have to check a bag as result.

If the fee was more commensurate with the space occupied like $25 each way for under the seat, people wouldn’t abuse the system.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
SoCalFlyer
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:19 pm

The airlines follow the law here. As it’s states they’re only allowed to ask certain questions and that’s it. So I’m wondering what argument she can really make here. I know this is a case of sue the person with the deepest pockets, but I think she should sue soley the dog owner. My question is, can the airlines require that the owner of a pet, whether it be emotional support or service animal, have liability insurance? Can they also make them sign something that says they are soley responsible for any legal cases brought about because of their animals actions?
 
Indy
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm

Astronage wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.


The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
SoCalFlyer
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:24 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Some of the ESA blame lies with the airlines and rediculous fees. My 9 pound dog fits comfortably in her carrier underneath the seat in front and for that it costs $250 round trip... that jumps to $300 round trip if you have to check a bag as result.

If the fee was more commensurate with the space occupied like $25 each way for under the seat, people wouldn’t abuse the system.



Well that’s just out right shifting the blame. There’s also a limit to the amount of pets allowed to be in the cabin.
 
LTC8K6
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:31 pm

horsepowerchef wrote:
...but what about my emotional support nest of angry wasps?


Not as nice as my emotional support fire ant colony...
 
ewt340
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:44 pm

Indy wrote:
Astronage wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.


The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.


Yeah, just ban all dogs altogether in the cabin.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:59 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Some of the ESA blame lies with the airlines and rediculous fees. My 9 pound dog fits comfortably in her carrier underneath the seat in front and for that it costs $250 round trip... that jumps to $300 round trip if you have to check a bag as result.

If the fee was more commensurate with the space occupied like $25 each way for under the seat, people wouldn’t abuse the system.



Well that’s just out right shifting the blame. There’s also a limit to the amount of pets allowed to be in the cabin.


Not saying its the airlines fault here in this case, but the sharp rise in ESA travel is as result of the fees.... $50 for carry on under the seat I'd pay it... for $300, sorry but i'm going to abuse the system.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:33 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
My pitbull submits instantly when I grab her neck and is scared of my roommate's cat. The amount of ignorance on this thread is disgusting. You and all the hate-spewing dog racists on here ought to be euthanized.


I really hope you're being sarcastic
CL CRJ9, W6 A320
 
davescj
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:45 pm

Last year when multiple airlines changed policies for emotional support animals (it was discussed on his board in March, May, June, and Nov 2018) I was among many who said support animals need to be treated like pets in the cabin (in a carrier, under the seat, etc). I said then - there was going to be a lawsuit because some animal would get loose and cause problems. Many could not see this happening, I was being cruel to those who need the support animal, etc....and hear we are. Exactly what I said was going to happen has. The reality is that emotional support animals need better regulation or cannot be allowed into these kinds of situations. This situation is 100% the fault of the dog owner.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:08 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
My pitbull submits instantly when I grab her neck and is scared of my roommate's cat. The amount of ignorance on this thread is disgusting. You and all the hate-spewing dog racists on here ought to be euthanized.


Last week there was an incident in Detroit captured on camera. Search liveleak for SAVAGE PITBULL* ATTACKS "MAILMAN. Come back and comment.
 
ExpatVet
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Indy wrote:
Astronage wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Pitbulls need to be banned


The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.


The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.


Breed is irrelevant. ER statistics have Labradors as the leading breed for dog bites causing human injury. Not pit bulls.
L101, 733/4/5/8, 741/2/3 (never managed 744!), MD 80/2/3/8/90, MD11, DHC8/3/Q4, E170, E195, 757, 77W, 763/4, Travel Air 2000. A300/310, A319/320/321, A333, ATR-72, probably a few others I forget. Passenger, not pilot, alas! BUD based.
 
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Seabear
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:33 pm

A pitbull is to a chihuahua as a pellet gun is to a M60. And neither belong in an aircraft cabin.
 
Indy
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 pm

ExpatVet wrote:
Indy wrote:
Astronage wrote:

The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.


The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.


Breed is irrelevant. ER statistics have Labradors as the leading breed for dog bites causing human injury. Not pit bulls.


Show me a case where a Lab did the kind of damage a Pit does on a regular basis. Show me a Lab taking a beating while continuing the attack. I mean a severe beating like the ones that Pits take without releasing. Sorry but a Lab doesn't compare. Not even in the same ballpark.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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rjsampson
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:06 pm

ewt340 wrote:
Yeah, just ban all dogs altogether in the cabin.


No. My dog can sense impending seizures and alert the crew. He belongs in the cabin right at my feet.

On another note, he can also grab me a beer from the fridge while I'm watching TV.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
WorldFlier
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:11 pm

ExpatVet wrote:
Indy wrote:
Astronage wrote:

The breed is irrelevant, a lab is just as easily capable of severely injuring a small child as is any medium to large size dog. Untrained animals should not allowed to roam free in confined public spaces.


The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.


Breed is irrelevant. ER statistics have Labradors as the leading breed for dog bites causing human injury. Not pit bulls.


You sound like the Marketing folks at United, "United is #1 at On-Time Departures from Newark (because they have the most flights)"

"Labradors are #1 at Dog Bites (because they are the most common large dog)"

You have to look at it as Attacks by Breed/Population of Breed. In addition to this, nobody is going to report a Chihuahua biting anyone except a baby. Anyone over 10 years old can literally kill the dog with one good kick!
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:24 am

WorldFlier wrote:
ExpatVet wrote:
Indy wrote:

The breed is relevant. If a lab attacks, you can hit the dog once or twice and the battle is over. You nearly have to beat a pit bull to death to get it to release. It is 100% the breed. They are doing exactly what they were bred to do. I saw a video recently where a pit attacked a postal worker. Someone took a club (the kind you use to secure your steering wheel in the car) and beat that dog as hard as he could and the dog would not let go. Sorry but these dogs aren't pets. They are weapons. They need to be banned nationally. They absolutely need to be banned from airports and planes.


Breed is irrelevant. ER statistics have Labradors as the leading breed for dog bites causing human injury. Not pit bulls.


You sound like the Marketing folks at United, "United is #1 at On-Time Departures from Newark (because they have the most flights)"

"Labradors are #1 at Dog Bites (because they are the most common large dog)"

You have to look at it as Attacks by Breed/Population of Breed. In addition to this, nobody is going to report a Chihuahua biting anyone except a baby. Anyone over 10 years old can literally kill the dog with one good kick!


+1. NO PIT BULLS.
 
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rjsampson
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:35 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
ExpatVet wrote:

Breed is irrelevant. ER statistics have Labradors as the leading breed for dog bites causing human injury. Not pit bulls.


"Labradors are #1 at Dog Bites (because they are the most common large dog)"

You have to look at it as Attacks by Breed/Population of Breed. In addition to this, nobody is going to report a Chihuahua biting anyone except a baby. Anyone over 10 years old can literally kill the dog with one good kick!


+1. NO PIT BULLS.


Well... while this is veering off, I can say this: Pit Bulls can absolutely be effective TRAINED Working Service Dogs. Now if you're going to bring a Pit Bull onto an aircraft, the same common sense applies.

Basically: Animals on an aircraft fall into 2 categories:

    1) Emotional Support Animals [the airlines are finally cracking down on this, and requiring a note / prescription from a Psychiatrist / Psychologist in order to board the Animal (and if your shrink has prescribed an Emotional Support Flock of Bees... You better change doctors lol)].

    2) Working Service Animals / TRAINED Working Service Animals. Unfortunately: The ADA (as it is written) basically suggests that "the handler, under no circumstances, must not be separated from separated from it's working service animal."

To repeat my point: Who was trained more intensively? Was it the dog, or the OWNER (handler). There is nothing inherently wrong with a well-trained Pit Bull. Yes, more that most breeds: The owner needs a bit of a firm hand, loving relationship with a Pit Bull, socialization, etc. often more than some other breeds might.

From experience as a trainer: Pit Bulls are just dogs, like any other breed. Yes, they have slightly different instincts (all breeds do)... I mean, I have a German Shepherd / Rottweiler that is enthusiastically welcomed by crew (Pilots, FAs) and Passengers. Why? Because *I* was trained, to train him. Can't repeat that enough: I was trained, moreso than my dog.

Ultimately my point is this: Misrepresenting your Dog, as an ESA or Trained/Working Service Dog, with an online badge or whatever they got on Amazon is a FELONY CRIME. The prescribing Doc is not responsible. The handler is. A well-trained Pit Bull as a Working/TRAINED Service Dog should be welcome on any flight. If I were to change anything about the System it would be this: Documentation, signed off by a trainer, should be required for ANY breed.

I am concerned about this fact: Whenever I notify an Airline that I will be travelling with a Large Service Dog, their first question is: "Is this an Emotion Support Animal? (Point 1)" And I tell them "No. He is a Trained/Working Service Dog". Then they have to take my word for it. (Point 2). And the law being what it is: They're not allowed to ask about my disability (which is good!) nor do they ask for documentation (which is bad!).

That upsets me. No legitimately TRAINED Pit Bull should be banned from any flight, especially if said Pit Bull has been TRAINED to assist its handler with his/her ACTUAL disability.

Again: The problem isn't Pit Bulls, or dogs, or bees, or peacocks, or whatever. The problem is the OWNER/HANDLER. My proposed solution? Airlines should ask for documentation from a certified trainer, that the animal and HANDLER have gone through extensive training for a specific reason. Should the Doc or trainer have liability? Absolutely not. It all comes down to the Handler. The traveler.

I would be interested in meeting someone who's trained bees, peacocks, and crocodiles to be working service animals lol..
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
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dik909
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Re: $1.1M lawsuit filed after 'emotional support' dog mauled 5yo girl

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:59 am

horsepowerchef wrote:
...but what about my emotional support nest of angry wasps?


:rotfl:


Imo, the rise of "emotional support animals" is a complete farce.

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