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GSP psgr
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Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:12 pm

Delta looks to be exiting the NRT operation, which will likely mean the end of NRT-SIN. That leaves the question of whether or how they want to continue serving Singapore. They could opt to run it as a tag on one of their other Japan flights, such as DTW-NGO or SEA-KIX, though how much local traffic they would be able to carry is very questionable. They could drop it completely, and flow the traffic over Seoul. Or they could opt to serve it nonstop from either Los Angeles or Seattle with their new A350 aircraft. Los Angeles unquestionably has the bigger local market, but they would have the Seattle market to themselves. Given how poorly SEA-HKG did, I wonder if SEA-SIN would end up as an even more expensive flop.

American, on the other hand, doesn't serve Singapore at all currently. It (along with India) is probably the biggest service gap in American's Asia network. DFW-SIN is probably too far for any aircraft currently in American's fleet, leaving them the option of competing with SQ on LAX-SIN; on the whole AA seems more committed to the LAX-Asia business market than DL, so I can see them more willing to give it a try.

Thoughts?
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:17 pm

SQ is about to start SEA-SIN.
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jfk777
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:54 pm

As much as I would love to see AA to Singapore, their alliance and hub layout does not easily support Singapore flights. DFW to SIN is too far and LAX to SIN could be done with a 787-9, AA would have no feed at the SIN which UA does with Singapore Airlines Star alliance membership. Singapore Airlines also is "Singapore Airlines" and they own their market from the USA especially with the A35-900ULR planes with large Business Class and Premium Economy seating only. Prices being equal people fly Singapore Girl. AA is probably more likely to fly to China Southern's Guangou hub
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:01 am

AA - considering how much they struggle making Pacific profitable, I'd say quite unlikely especially when one considers they have JV with JAL that covers Singapore already.

DL - Suppose its possible, but DL has not done exactly great across the Pacific in recent years either, and had to exit far larger and closer markets like HKG. SIN can probably be covered via ICN on KE for the foreseeable future.
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Prost
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:06 am

Any new route for DL would come under the KE JV, and I can’t see a non-stop US-SIN offering more profit than US-ICN-SIN routing. I think the premium traffic to SIN has already been taken by SIN and UA.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:38 am

Funny I was thinking about this earlier ago; Delta may not have Hong Kong, but still has Singapore over American (but not United), at least for now from Narita.

Star Alliance is the top dog at Singapore. Delta will just push anything Asia over to Seoul, but maybe from Detroit could work :stirthepot:.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:50 am

LAXintl wrote:
AA - considering how much they struggle making Pacific profitable, I'd say quite unlikely especially when one considers they have JV with JAL that covers Singapore already.

DL - Suppose its possible, but DL has not done exactly great across the Pacific in recent years either, and had to exit far larger and closer markets like HKG. SIN can probably be covered via ICN on KE for the foreseeable future.
DL is doing just fine across the Pacific. Sure, they eliminated HKG but what about all the new flights to ICN? TPAC is a lot more than HKG. With ICN, DL can be 1000 times more affective than trying to make HKG work, but that doesnt mean DL isnt doing great over the Pacific. I would argue just the opposite.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:04 am

I doubt either would launch a nonstop from the US to Singapore. Neither of their TPAC gateways and hub structures make a flight truly profitable, but there are some possibilities, however unlikely. For American Airlines, they could pick up where UA left off and launch LAX-SIN nonstop. It would certainly add a prestigious route in what is one of American's important TPAC gateways, but this type of route just isn't in American's wheelhouse. American could also go even bolder and challenge the SQ flight to capture more corporate contracts and launch JFK-SIN, but they would have to do it on a reconfigured sub fleet of 787-9s and again, this is not in American's strategy to do something like that. As for DL, maybe Seattle, but with SQ launching it, not sure the market can support 2 flights.
 
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janders
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:22 am

No, and no.

jumbojet wrote:
DL is doing just fine across the Pacific. Sure, they eliminated HKG but what about all the new flights to ICN? TPAC is a lot more than HKG. With ICN, DL can be 1000 times more affective than trying to make HKG work, but that doesnt mean DL isnt doing great over the Pacific. I would argue just the opposite.


Not if you listen to their earnings calls, and see that their ASMs have shrunk something like 20% over the last 5-years.

DL is shrinking. or retrenching in the region. The loss of NRT and refocus towards ICN has hastened this. How many markets/routes have been dropped in the last few years??
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FSDan
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:39 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
For American Airlines, they could pick up where UA left off and launch LAX-SIN nonstop.


From what I've heard on here, part of the reason UA dropped LAX-SIN and moved it to the 2nd daily SFO-SIN was because the 789 was struggling with the distance of LAX-SIN and wasn't able to carry enough payload to make the flight worthwhile (the other reason being that clients wanted a more flexible schedule to SIN with a morning departure). AA's 789s are configured with 30 more seats than UA's so if UA was having problems with the distance of LAX-SIN then I don't think AA has an aircraft that could fly the route profitably.

DL could maybe fly LAX-SIN on their 77Ls (although it's 300+ miles longer than even ATL-JNB), but I don't think they're likely to do so given their current fleet constraints. Even JFK-HKG would be shorter than LAX-SIN. If DL cuts SIN on their own metal and moves the flow traffic via ICN, the only market that really loses out is PDX (connected to TYO, but not ICN), and I doubt the PDX-SIN market is all that large or lucrative...
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:57 am

janders wrote:
No, and no.

jumbojet wrote:
DL is doing just fine across the Pacific. Sure, they eliminated HKG but what about all the new flights to ICN? TPAC is a lot more than HKG. With ICN, DL can be 1000 times more affective than trying to make HKG work, but that doesnt mean DL isnt doing great over the Pacific. I would argue just the opposite.


Not if you listen to their earnings calls, and see that their ASMs have shrunk something like 20% over the last 5-years.

DL is shrinking. or retrenching in the region. The loss of NRT and refocus towards ICN has hastened this. How many markets/routes have been dropped in the last few years??


You could ask the same thing about failed UA TPAC routes. Hangzhou, Xi'an, LAX-SIN... Not every route is a winner. Losing routes don't last when the objective is financial return (not empty prestige).
 
tphuang
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:06 am

They could launch it as vanity project. Otherwise, AA/DL ff can continue to get there via partner metals. On big O&D markets like, NYC/SFO/LAX-SIN, *A has it all covered.

DL is doing just fine across the Pacific. Sure, they eliminated HKG but what about all the new flights to ICN? TPAC is a lot more than HKG. With ICN, DL can be 1000 times more affective than trying to make HKG work, but that doesnt mean DL isnt doing great over the Pacific. I would argue just the opposite.

DL strategy is just forcing everything through their JV that doesn't end up in Japan or China. As we all know, China is a huge bloodbath. Japan maybe okay once they get HND slots, but they will be a distance #3 given the strength of *A/OW there. Sure, they will have Korea dominated, but that's a much smaller market than Japan, China, India and HK/SIN. I fly to Asia a lot. DL is just unworkable for me because they are such a weak option to non-Korea Asia.
 
tcaeyx
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:19 am

SIN is probably far down the lift of priorities if AA was to pursue another round of Asia expansion from LAX (which they're not.) I'd expect the two glaring holes in their network, ICN and TPE, to be filled long before they even consider SIN.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:20 am

tphuang wrote:
They could launch it as vanity project. Otherwise, AA/DL ff can continue to get there via partner metals. On big O&D markets like, NYC/SFO/LAX-SIN, *A has it all covered.

DL is doing just fine across the Pacific. Sure, they eliminated HKG but what about all the new flights to ICN? TPAC is a lot more than HKG. With ICN, DL can be 1000 times more affective than trying to make HKG work, but that doesnt mean DL isnt doing great over the Pacific. I would argue just the opposite.

DL strategy is just forcing everything through their JV that doesn't end up in Japan or China. As we all know, China is a huge bloodbath. Japan maybe okay once they get HND slots, but they will be a distance #3 given the strength of *A/OW there. Sure, they will have Korea dominated, but that's a much smaller market than Japan, China, India and HK/SIN. I fly to Asia a lot. DL is just unworkable for me because they are such a weak option to non-Korea Asia.


Lets see, outside of HKG, DL hits just every major southeast Asian destination on their own metal. What more do you want? TPAC for the most part is Japan, for which DL covers pretty nicely with KIX, NRT, HND, NGO, Korea extensively, the two biggest China destinations, Singapore, Manila, anything else and your connecting. Whether its on UA or AA or DL, your connecting and you mine as well connect in ICN. The airport is light years better than connecting through China or NRT.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:23 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Or they could opt to serve it nonstop from either Los Angeles or Seattle with their new A350 aircraft.


LAX or SEA-to-SIN with little feed on one end and no feed on the other? Not a chance DL starts these routes.

GSP psgr wrote:
They could drop it completely, and flow the traffic over Seoul.


Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

GSP psgr wrote:
DFW-SIN is probably too far for any aircraft currently in American's fleet, leaving them the option of competing with SQ on LAX-SIN; on the whole AA seems more committed to the LAX-Asia business market than DL, so I can see them more willing to give it a try.


Also little feed on one end and no feed on the other vs. a 300 lb gorilla? Not a chance AA starts this route.

The US-to-Singapore market is completely owned by Star Alliance and United. Delta and American should be happy to take the crumbs they can get with connecting traffic via their partners and avoid throwing good money after bad trying to compete in a game they can't win.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:26 am

Delta has shrunk significantly across the Pacific.

In 2013 the region produced $4.1bil in revenue for the carrier. In 2018 down to $2.9bil.

Matter of fact, now Latin America revenues have eclipsed the once mighty Pacific network!
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tcaeyx
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:26 am

IPFreely wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Or they could opt to serve it nonstop from either Los Angeles or Seattle with their new A350 aircraft.


LAX or SEA-to-SIN with little feed on one end and no feed on the other? Not a chance DL starts these routes.



Not to mention the fact that their supposedly A350 cannot do LAX-SYD with a meaningful payload, let alone LAX-SIN.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:29 am

tphuang wrote:
I fly to Asia a lot. DL is just unworkable for me because they are such a weak option to non-Korea Asia.


And that's okay, not every airline/alliance can be everywhere. Star Alliance/United owns the US/Asia market. OneWorld/American dominates the US/South America market. And all three alliances are competitive on the huge US/Europe market.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:39 am

IPFreely wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I fly to Asia a lot. DL is just unworkable for me because they are such a weak option to non-Korea Asia.


And that's okay, not every airline/alliance can be everywhere. Star Alliance/United owns the US/Asia market. OneWorld/American dominates the US/South America market. And all three alliances are competitive on the huge US/Europe market.


Taking it one step further, with the exception of HKG, where else does DL need to put there own metal over the Pacific? Its not many places; maybe TPE? They more or less cover all the important business markets. Heck, UA doesnt even serve BKK anymore on their own metal.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:55 am

Well I live in New York. Why don’t you take a look at how few relevant destinations sky team flies to Asia directly from nyc? Delta is just not workable. To finance firms, the most important market in Asia are tokyo, hk and Singapore. Delta doesn’t work well to any of them. You do a search on concur and see how many itineraries on one stop to Singapore from New York for Cathay vs Korean air and tell me what you see. And then check the number of itineraries to Thailand and Bali on star alliance vs sky team to. Not in the San ball park.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:00 am

FSDan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
For American Airlines, they could pick up where UA left off and launch LAX-SIN nonstop.


From what I've heard on here, part of the reason UA dropped LAX-SIN and moved it to the 2nd daily SFO-SIN was because the 789 was struggling with the distance of LAX-SIN and wasn't able to carry enough payload to make the flight worthwhile (the other reason being that clients wanted a more flexible schedule to SIN with a morning departure). AA's 789s are configured with 30 more seats than UA's so if UA was having problems with the distance of LAX-SIN then I don't think AA has an aircraft that could fly the route profitably.

DL could maybe fly LAX-SIN on their 77Ls (although it's 300+ miles longer than even ATL-JNB), but I don't think they're likely to do so given their current fleet constraints. Even JFK-HKG would be shorter than LAX-SIN. If DL cuts SIN on their own metal and moves the flow traffic via ICN, the only market that really loses out is PDX (connected to TYO, but not ICN), and I doubt the PDX-SIN market is all that large or lucrative...


From what I know 77Ls have about equal range as 345s so 77Ls should easily handle LAX/JFK-SIN. However, given that DL struggles to maoe HKG work, I don't see DL starting SIN(some 1000 miles further than HKG) anytime soon. If DL had any interest in direct US-SIN, then DL would already have tried SEA-SIN with 77L or 359.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:02 am

tphuang wrote:
They could launch it as vanity project. Otherwise, AA/DL ff can continue to get there via partner metals. On big O&D markets like, NYC/SFO/LAX-SIN, *A has it all covered.

DL strategy is just forcing everything through their JV that doesn't end up in Japan or China. As we all know, China is a huge bloodbath. Japan maybe okay once they get HND slots, but they will be a distance #3 given the strength of *A/OW there. Sure, they will have Korea dominated, but that's a much smaller market than Japan, China, India and HK/SIN. I fly to Asia a lot. DL is just unworkable for me because they are such a weak option to non-Korea Asia.


Not so much as a vanity project as a loss leader. As long as it didn't burn too much money and kept Delta competitive with United with their key New York and Los Angeles clients it could be worth it. Sort of the same thinking behind their planned route to India, which I don't think is going to be profitable either.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:15 am

SeoulIncheon wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
For American Airlines, they could pick up where UA left off and launch LAX-SIN nonstop.


From what I've heard on here, part of the reason UA dropped LAX-SIN and moved it to the 2nd daily SFO-SIN was because the 789 was struggling with the distance of LAX-SIN and wasn't able to carry enough payload to make the flight worthwhile (the other reason being that clients wanted a more flexible schedule to SIN with a morning departure). AA's 789s are configured with 30 more seats than UA's so if UA was having problems with the distance of LAX-SIN then I don't think AA has an aircraft that could fly the route profitably.

DL could maybe fly LAX-SIN on their 77Ls (although it's 300+ miles longer than even ATL-JNB), but I don't think they're likely to do so given their current fleet constraints. Even JFK-HKG would be shorter than LAX-SIN. If DL cuts SIN on their own metal and moves the flow traffic via ICN, the only market that really loses out is PDX (connected to TYO, but not ICN), and I doubt the PDX-SIN market is all that large or lucrative...


From what I know 77Ls have about equal range as 345s so 77Ls should easily handle LAX/JFK-SIN. However, given that DL struggles to maoe HKG work, I don't see DL starting SIN(some 1000 miles further than HKG) anytime soon. If DL had any interest in direct US-SIN, then DL would already have tried SEA-SIN with 77L or 359.

Not really equal nearly 445 Nautical Miles difference which can make a difference.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:47 am

If DL tries to enter the US-Singapore market it would be like when NW entered the US-Australia market.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:04 am

tcaeyx wrote:
SIN is probably far down the lift of priorities if AA was to pursue another round of Asia expansion from LAX (which they're not.) I'd expect the two glaring holes in their network, ICN and TPE, to be filled long before they even consider SIN.


AA flies to ICN from DFW daily.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:16 am

FSDan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
For American Airlines, they could pick up where UA left off and launch LAX-SIN nonstop.


From what I've heard on here, part of the reason UA dropped LAX-SIN and moved it to the 2nd daily SFO-SIN was because the 789 was struggling with the distance of LAX-SIN and wasn't able to carry enough payload to make the flight worthwhile (the other reason being that clients wanted a more flexible schedule to SIN with a morning departure). AA's 789s are configured with 30 more seats than UA's so if UA was having problems with the distance of LAX-SIN then [b][b]I don't think AA has an aircraft that could fly the route profitably.[/b][/b]

DL could maybe fly LAX-SIN on their 77Ls (although it's 300+ miles longer than even ATL-JNB), but I don't think they're likely to do so given their current fleet constraints. Even JFK-HKG would be shorter than LAX-SIN. If DL cuts SIN on their own metal and moves the flow traffic via ICN, the only market that really loses out is PDX (connected to TYO, but not ICN), and I doubt the PDX-SIN market is all that large or lucrative...



The 787-8 could make it. Start small and up gauge with demand.
Last edited by ABEguy on Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Not so much as a vanity project as a loss leader. As long as it didn't burn too much money and kept Delta competitive with United with their key New York and Los Angeles clients it could be worth it. Sort of the same thinking behind their planned route to India, which I don't think is going to be profitable either.


Delta isn't competitive with any clients who need Asia service unless that need begins and ends with Korea. One "loss leader" route to Singapore isn't going to change that. Delta to Singapore is not going to happen. And the fat lady is singing on that "planned route to India."
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:19 am

Sorry don't see it. Or atleast I don't see such flight being successful for either airline. They are better sticking with their respective JV partner.

Any yes, DL footprint in the Pacific continues to shrink. That once mega NWA network is no longer.
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tcaeyx
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:29 am

ABEguy wrote:
tcaeyx wrote:
SIN is probably far down the lift of priorities if AA was to pursue another round of Asia expansion from LAX (which they're not.) I'd expect the two glaring holes in their network, ICN and TPE, to be filled long before they even consider SIN.


AA flies to ICN from DFW daily.


LAX-ICN**
 
jagraham
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:46 am

JQ321 wrote:
SeoulIncheon wrote:
FSDan wrote:

From what I've heard on here, part of the reason UA dropped LAX-SIN and moved it to the 2nd daily SFO-SIN was because the 789 was struggling with the distance of LAX-SIN and wasn't able to carry enough payload to make the flight worthwhile (the other reason being that clients wanted a more flexible schedule to SIN with a morning departure). AA's 789s are configured with 30 more seats than UA's so if UA was having problems with the distance of LAX-SIN then I don't think AA has an aircraft that could fly the route profitably.

DL could maybe fly LAX-SIN on their 77Ls (although it's 300+ miles longer than even ATL-JNB), but I don't think they're likely to do so given their current fleet constraints. Even JFK-HKG would be shorter than LAX-SIN. If DL cuts SIN on their own metal and moves the flow traffic via ICN, the only market that really loses out is PDX (connected to TYO, but not ICN), and I doubt the PDX-SIN market is all that large or lucrative...


From what I know 77Ls have about equal range as 345s so 77Ls should easily handle LAX/JFK-SIN. However, given that DL struggles to maoe HKG work, I don't see DL starting SIN(some 1000 miles further than HKG) anytime soon. If DL had any interest in direct US-SIN, then DL would already have tried SEA-SIN with 77L or 359.

Not really equal nearly 445 Nautical Miles difference which can make a difference.


The 77L can do LAX-SIN no problem. Besides SIN is close to sea level, as opposed to JNB.
The real problem is fuel; it would take the 77L all of 48000 gallons to get there especially westbound. A359 and 789 can do it for 15000 to 17000 gallons less (but also 50 pax less).
As for UA, I believe moving the LAX flight to SFO is mostly about departure times; if LAX-SIN was having troubles, there would have been diversions.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:49 am

I don't think the 788 can make it. It's 789 or nothing.
 
tcaeyx
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:05 am

jagraham wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
SeoulIncheon wrote:

From what I know 77Ls have about equal range as 345s so 77Ls should easily handle LAX/JFK-SIN. However, given that DL struggles to maoe HKG work, I don't see DL starting SIN(some 1000 miles further than HKG) anytime soon. If DL had any interest in direct US-SIN, then DL would already have tried SEA-SIN with 77L or 359.

Not really equal nearly 445 Nautical Miles difference which can make a difference.


The 77L can do LAX-SIN no problem. Besides SIN is close to sea level, as opposed to JNB.
The real problem is fuel; it would take the 77L all of 48000 gallons to get there especially westbound. A359 and 789 can do it for 15000 to 17000 gallons less (but also 50 pax less).
As for UA, I believe moving the LAX flight to SFO is mostly about departure times; if LAX-SIN was having troubles, there would have been diversions.


On the other hand, if UA LAX-SIN wasn't having troubles, wouldn't it still be around? It's no secret that UA was blocking a significant chunk of seats westbound, especially in the winter. It was also consistently going out less full than its SFO counterpart, despite being 350nm longer. Why keep the flight at LAX when SFO can fill the plane more easily for a shorter flight?
 
LH658
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:09 am

I don't see it, UA and SQ have locked, a lot of corporate traffic. Plus both are star hubs, another thing to consider. UA been operating SIN for a while, while SQ been operating in the US for a while as well. The route is long, and thin, would require stealing corporate deals, to make such route happen, and can only see it from both airlines starting with LAX, then moving forwards to JFK, ORD, and etc.

Maybe AA or MH can start KUL to the USA, Malaysian is pretty good, maybe send some traffic to India, and surrounding areas etc, KUL is also a energy/financial/logistic hub, just like SIN.
 
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:25 am

GSP psgr wrote:
on the whole AA seems more committed to the LAX-Asia business market than DL

....if one were to count flying to a grand total of two additional cities (one being a partner's core hub, and the other DL tried but didn't win regulatory approval to op), as "more committed."
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:50 am

USAirALB wrote:
SQ is about to start SEA-SIN.


And this will probably work, as there is feed on both ends (SQ in SIN, AS in SEA). DL doesn't have that benefit on the same route, same story with CX starting HKG-SEA. SIN is simply too long of a route to justify the expense if you can't offer onward connections ex-SIN.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:57 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Funny I was thinking about this earlier ago; Delta may not have Hong Kong, but still has Singapore over American (but not United), at least for now from Narita.

Star Alliance is the top dog at Singapore. Delta will just push anything Asia over to Seoul, but maybe from Detroit could work :stirthepot:.

Right. Because there are more Singaporeans in Detroit than in Singapore. :lol:
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
alexwm
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:07 am

I don't see any other airline starting LAX-SIN in the next 2-3 years. I've flown that route on SQ 3 times in the last 2 months, in Y+, and a) return fares were about $1.5k and b) the cabin had a LF of ~60%.
The J cabin wasn't full either in any of the flights. On a separate topic, I wish SQ was more generous offering complementary upgrades.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:48 am

SQ's advantage is in its hard and soft product.. A strategy to counter SQ's quality advantage is what AA would have to formulate. However, as long as Dougie is at the helm of AA, that means competing on price.

In regards to UA, they offer nothing superior other than contracts, which for a lot of companies includes multiple carriers.

LH658 wrote:
Maybe AA or MH can start KUL to the USA, Malaysian is pretty good, maybe send some traffic to India, and surrounding areas etc, KUL is also a energy/financial/logistic hub, just like SIN.


KUL doesn't have the same level of premium traffic that SIN does. Thats the problem MH is having. AA would see better value from a bonfire made of money at the company picnic than flying to KUL.

I suspect anyone willing to fly LAX-KUL-DEL at 11,212 mi compared to LAX-NRT-DEL at 9,129 mi, are those looking for bottom of the barrell fares.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:53 pm

I am not sure why people mention Star Alliance as an advantage. I don't see it.

In the past I flew regular to HSV from SIN after a few routes being tried we settled on SIN-ICN-SFO in SQ followed by SFO-DFW-HSV in AA.

I also needed to go to Boston and ended up SIN-ICN-SFO on SQ and SFO-BOS on UA.

In terms of cost and benefits there was absolutely no difference between the two. On SFO-BOS I flew probably on the most expensive Y ticket you can get and ended up in the last row with my Star Alliance Gold completely unrecognized. I could not even book the extra legroom seats which gold status holders are supposedly entitled to. This insult was enough to avoid UA whenever I can and I have not flown them since.

6 months ago I had a nice trip:

SIN-SFO-CLT with SIN-SFO on SQ and SFO-CLT on AA, CLT-PIT on AA, PIT-DTW on DL, DTW-SFO-HKG-SIN with DTW-SFO on DL and SFO-HKG-SIN on SQ. No problem and all 3 airlines showed the full route during the online check-in. Cost was ok and if UA had a feasible option for this trip I am pretty sure it would not have been cheaper.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
TigerFlyer
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:32 pm

DL will likely move its NRT-SIN to ICN-SIN on Delta metal (and MNL, their only other NRT 5th freedom flight). SIN is high yield, and MNL is high volume. And, Delta has obligations under its pilot working agreement to maintain certain levels of Pacific flying.

You can get from all of the largest U.S. cities to any city in Asia with one stop on DL/KE (and many nonstop). I don't understand the criticisms that DL's network is lacking. UA is number 1, Delta number 2, and AA number 3 in terms of US-Asia. They are all formidable competitors.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:00 am

TigerFlyer wrote:
You can get from all of the largest U.S. cities to any city in Asia with one stop on DL/KE (and many nonstop).


This is only true if your definition of "largest" means "DL hubs".

TigerFlyer wrote:
I don't understand the criticisms that DL's network is lacking. UA is number 1, Delta number 2, and AA number 3 in terms of US-Asia. They are all formidable competitors.


By any measure (number of flights, number of destinations, number of city pairs, number of passengers), UA is not just #1, UA is bigger than DL and AA combined. DL and AA are not formidable competitors across the Pacific -- they are minor players at best.
 
TigerFlyer
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Re: Will Delta or American Fly US-Singapore In The Next 10 Years?

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:19 pm

IPFreely wrote:
TigerFlyer wrote:
You can get from all of the largest U.S. cities to any city in Asia with one stop on DL/KE (and many nonstop).


This is only true if your definition of "largest" means "DL hubs".

TigerFlyer wrote:
I don't understand the criticisms that DL's network is lacking. UA is number 1, Delta number 2, and AA number 3 in terms of US-Asia. They are all formidable competitors.


By any measure (number of flights, number of destinations, number of city pairs, number of passengers), UA is not just #1, UA is bigger than DL and AA combined. DL and AA are not formidable competitors across the Pacific -- they are minor players at best.


By largest cities, I mean all Delta and Korea Air gateways. Want to fly from Washington to Hanoi? One stop via ICN. Fewer stops than Air Force 1 made on the way over. KE is certainly a formidable player, and they have a deeply integrated JV with Delta. The combined network is very strong. There are JVs, and their are JVs . . . Delta has done a far better job of integrating them than most. AA is third by some distance, and it was disappointing to see them pull down ORD-Asia last year. Nonetheless they are the largest carrier in the world, and, together with their partners, are a significant competitor in Asia.

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