User avatar
Finn350
Topic Author
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

The world's longest-running airlines

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:10 pm

Here are 10 of the oldest airlines in the world still in operation. BA missing from this list.

1. KLM 1919
2. Avianca 1919
3. Qantas 1920
4. Aeroflot 1923
5. Czech Airlines (CSA) 1923
6. Finnair 1923 (originally named Aero O/Y)
7. Delta Air Lines 1924
8. Tajik Air (until January 2019) 1924
9. Air Serbia 1927
10. Iberia 1927

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html
 
Kilopond
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:36 pm

Nice try, but this is :eek: fake news :eek:! Well, not a plain lie, but CNN is delivering an inconsistant, worthless quick and dirty list.

Why do Soviet Union airlines count when their legal status shifted several times?

Why does Iberia count when the original company is legally not related to the original one?

Why does Det Danske Luftfartselskab (1918) not appear although it still operates as SAS Danmark?

There are many more examples of a totally questionable methodology.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:42 pm

Does CAAC count? It is now Air China.
 
User avatar
Finn350
Topic Author
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:03 pm

Kilopond wrote:
Why does Iberia count when the original company is legally not related to the original one?


What do you mean? Iberia ownership has certainly changed over the years (current owner is the IAG holding company), but as an airline it is still the same legal company as in 1927.
 
alan3
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:42 pm

I'm curious... if an airline is formed by the merger of different airlines AND adopts a new name or corporate structure, when would their age consider to start?

From the earliest date of any one of the component merged airlines, or from the date of the merge and new name establishment?
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1842
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:06 am

alan3 wrote:
I'm curious... if an airline is formed by the merger of different airlines AND adopts a new name or corporate structure, when would their age consider to start?

From the earliest date of any one of the component merged airlines, or from the date of the merge and new name establishment?


Personally, I should think that the airline's age would be from the date of said merger. Which makes BA's "purported" centenary celebrations fake as it was formed from the merger of BOAC & BEA in 1972!

Similarly, both MH & SQ had celebrated their "Golden Jubilee" in 1997, but both airlines were formed from the split of Malaysia-Singapore Airlines in 1972. Oddly enough, MH then celebrated their 40th anniversary in 2012 in acknowledgement of this.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
N174UA
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:43 am

Finn350 wrote:
Here are 10 of the oldest airlines in the world still in operation. BA missing from this list.

1. KLM 1919
2. Avianca 1919
3. Qantas 1920
4. Aeroflot 1923
5. Czech Airlines (CSA) 1923
6. Finnair 1923 (originally named Aero O/Y)
7. Delta Air Lines 1924
8. Tajik Air (until January 2019) 1924
9. Air Serbia 1927
10. Iberia 1927

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html


United Airlines (1926)
 
User avatar
Melbourne
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:17 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:50 am

Finn350 wrote:
Here are 10 of the oldest airlines in the world still in operation. BA missing from this list.

1. KLM 1919
2. Avianca 1919
3. Qantas 1920
4. Aeroflot 1923
5. Czech Airlines (CSA) 1923
6. Finnair 1923 (originally named Aero O/Y)
7. Delta Air Lines 1924
8. Tajik Air (until January 2019) 1924
9. Air Serbia 1927
10. Iberia 1927

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html


Tajik Air was not a standalone carrier, it was a directorate of Aeroflot.
 
mga707
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:57 am

The start date of 1924 for Delta is dubious also. That year was when crop-dusting firm Huff-Daland Dusters started operations. They did not start a passenger-carrying subsidiary, Delta Air service, until 1928. Furthermore, Delta Air Service was forced to give up it's passenger and mail operation in 1930 by the Postmaster General (the infamous 'Spoils Conference' in which a number of smaller carriers were forced to sellout to larger ones or stop operations) and did not resume passenger and mail services until the Air Mail Reorganization Act went into effect in 1934.
 
mga707
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:00 am

Also, while the list mentions Finnair's original name, it does not note that until shortly before WW2 Avianca was known by the acronym SCADTA and was German-owned. The US government put pressure on the Colombian government to 'kick out' the Germans and reform the airline as a Colombian organization (with assistance from Pan American). The name change to Avianca was part of that.
 
User avatar
Finn350
Topic Author
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:37 am

N174UA wrote:
United Airlines (1926)


Ok, United Airlines was set up in 1928, but as they acquired Varney Air Lines which had been set up in 1926, they have a claim for 1926. I suppose the CNN article looks at which legal entities have been running the longest, and Varney Air Lines itself is not such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... d_Airlines
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1955
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:08 am

Finn350 wrote:
N174UA wrote:
United Airlines (1926)


Ok, United Airlines was set up in 1928, but as they acquired Varney Air Lines which had been set up in 1926, they have a claim for 1926. I suppose the CNN article looks at which legal entities have been running the longest, and Varney Air Lines itself is not such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... d_Airlines


If that's the case, couldn't AA also claim 1926?

Standard Air lines (1926) -> TWA -> AA
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
YIMBY
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:20 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
alan3 wrote:
I'm curious... if an airline is formed by the merger of different airlines AND adopts a new name or corporate structure, when would their age consider to start?

From the earliest date of any one of the component merged airlines, or from the date of the merge and new name establishment?


Personally, I should think that the airline's age would be from the date of said merger.


Then what about acquisition? Where is the line between merger and acquisition?
 
User avatar
chunhimlai
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:43 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
N174UA wrote:
United Airlines (1926)


Ok, United Airlines was set up in 1928, but as they acquired Varney Air Lines which had been set up in 1926, they have a claim for 1926. I suppose the CNN article looks at which legal entities have been running the longest, and Varney Air Lines itself is not such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... d_Airlines


If that's the case, couldn't AA also claim 1926?

Standard Air lines (1926) -> TWA -> AA


Thats the way that BA celebrates 100th anniversary
Instone Air Line(1919)—>Imperial Airways(1923)—>BOAC(1939)—> BA(1974)
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 7879
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:40 am

In 1921 Qantas will become the first airline to fly continuously for 100 years under their original name. That IMHO will be the first centenary that really means something.

Honourable mention must go to KLM who would almost certainly would have served 100 years continuously under their original name if it wasn't for WWII.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
FlyRow
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:18 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
In 1921 Qantas will become the first airline to fly continuously for 100 years under their original name. That IMHO will be the first centenary that really means something.

Honourable mention must go to KLM who would almost certainly would have served 100 years continuously under their original name if it wasn't for WWII.


KLM kept operating during world war 2, mainly in the Careibs but also under british supervision between portugal and britain.
It just wasn't from Amsterdam.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1758
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:30 am

FlyRow wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
In 1921 Qantas will become the first airline to fly continuously for 100 years under their original name. That IMHO will be the first centenary that really means something.

Honourable mention must go to KLM who would almost certainly would have served 100 years continuously under their original name if it wasn't for WWII.


KLM kept operating during world war 2, mainly in the Careibs but also under british supervision between portugal and britain.
It just wasn't from Amsterdam.

It is a delicious irony that KLM's continuous service through WWII is partly due to British Airways (1935) Ltd who had just been merged with Imperial Airways to form BOAC

BOAC Flight 777 was shot down by Luftwaffe Ju-88s over the Bay of Biscay in 1943, en route from Bristol to Lisbon.
The operator was BOAC, and the aircraft carried a British registration (G-AGBB, ex PH-ALI), but the DC-3 was owned and crewed by KLM employees.
I have selected this image instead of various black & white photos, in order to demonstrate the standard British markings on the tail (vertical flag) and the very similar Dutch flag (long thin stripe) underneath the registration, and also underwing.

Image

FWIW the passenger list was 100% British, so the question is why did BOAC sub-contract this service to KLM? Also who managed the KLM operation and finances, and who actually paid the pilots. Do any financial accounts exist for this period? Are they written in £GBP or Dutch Guilders? Are they on KLM headed paper, or BOAC?
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
User avatar
TOGA10
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 am

I've found BA's claim a bit farfetched too, it feels like they are trying a bit too hard. That said, you gotta love the retro jets!
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1339
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:43 am

TOGA10 wrote:
I've found BA's claim a bit farfetched too, it feels like they are trying a bit too hard. That said, you gotta love the retro jets!


In UK terms I believe Loganair is still the longest established, still operating under original name and premise airline, beginning ops in 1962 ?
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Nice little database:
http://www.aviationfanatic.com/ent_list.php?ent=9&so=15
( set to the beginning of known founding dates.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1842
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:53 pm

YIMBY wrote:
Then what about acquisition? Where is the line between merger and acquisition?


Acquisitions shouldn't count. For example, Braniff consuming Panagra or TWA being acquired by American.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1908
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:11 pm

Regardless of what BA tells itself it was founded in 1974 and is a different entity from its predecessors. But hey we get the specials so they can keep hallucinating
A350/CSeries = bae
 
superjeff
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:24 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Then what about acquisition? Where is the line between merger and acquisition?


Acquisitions shouldn't count. For example, Braniff consuming Panagra or TWA being acquired by American.



There is a difference in this case. Braniff actually acquired Panagra by purchasing Pan Am's 50% interest and W.R. Grace's 50% interest. American acquired the assets of TWA out of bankruptcy. There has been a consolidation going on for years in the U.S. [for example, Piedmont/PSA >America West > (Allegheny) US Air > American and Reno Air / AirCal >American)]. Also in Europe (i.e., BOAC + BEA to British Airways; British United + BCAL>British Airways, etc. I think that you can trace British Airways back to the Imperial Airways days at the latest; etc. etc.

I think KLM and Avianca are generally considered to be the oldest continually operating airlines out there (under the same name); there may be some others that are close. Note that some airlines, like Lufthansa, have consistently operated under one name, but otherwise they may not be the same company [i.e., Deutsch Luft Hansa pre WWII; after WWII, you had the present day Lufthansa, and also the East German Deutsch Lufthansa (which became Interflug due to the name issue)].
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1758
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:27 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Then what about acquisition? Where is the line between merger and acquisition?

Acquisitions shouldn't count. For example, Braniff consuming Panagra or TWA being acquired by American.

According to several credible sources, Air France "acquired" KLM.

However, because passengers and a.netters continue to see the familiar KLM logo on aircraft, we regard the company as the same as it always was.

Wikipedia wrote:
In April 2004, …. KLM shareholders exchanged their KLM shares for Air France shares

4 May 2004
PARIS, May 4 (AFP) – Air France and KLM announced Tuesday that Air France has been successful in acquiring the Dutch airline, with 89.22 percent of KLM shareholders offering their holdings and thereby creating the biggest European airline.

https://www.expatica.com/fr/air-france-acquires-klm/

I honestly don't know how to define the difference between merger and acquisition, and more importantly, whether it is even relevant?

How do you begin to unscramble the reverse takeover when US Airways was acquired by America West Airlines?

And yet there are some people here who are perfectly certain they know the answer, which conveniently also suits their personal agendas.
:scratchchin:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:57 pm

This list has more holes than a swiss cheese, 2 minutes research can blow most of them out of the water, examples below:
Air Serbia - how can an airline have been existent since 1927 when it has only has its name for 5 years and its host country isn't much older.
Iberia - Big gap in its history, whilst the name was extant in the 1930's it had no routes and no planes.
Delta - Went through bankruptcy in 2007.

Yes the BA centenary is much contrived involving about 5 name changes, nationalisation, privatisation, and a number of mergers along the way, but so are most others
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:21 pm

The fascinating thing to me is that there are no contestants with names like Cunnard, White Star, Compagnie Générale Transatlantique, Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft, or any of the other classic trans-atlantic lines. Flying boats were a step apart, not really to be tried by those who operated the more conventional kind.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:58 pm

I would think ownership and or corp structure makes no difference. The real question is who has been operating under the same Certificate or legal authority continuously?
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:45 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
The fascinating thing to me is that there are no contestants with names like Cunnard, White Star, Compagnie Générale Transatlantique, Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft, or any of the other classic trans-atlantic lines. Flying boats were a step apart, not really to be tried by those who operated the more conventional kind.

HAPAG was (part) owner/creator of DELAG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DELAG founded in 1909.
Looks like the first airline ever :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Balerit
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:01 pm

South African Airways came into being in 1934 after the government took over an ailing Union Airways which began operating in 1929.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3929
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:07 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
N174UA wrote:
United Airlines (1926)


Ok, United Airlines was set up in 1928, but as they acquired Varney Air Lines which had been set up in 1926, they have a claim for 1926. I suppose the CNN article looks at which legal entities have been running the longest, and Varney Air Lines itself is not such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... d_Airlines


If that's the case, couldn't AA also claim 1926?

Standard Air lines (1926) -> TWA -> AA

United Airlines was a combination of Boeing Air Transport and Varney Airlines.
 
mga707
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:15 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
N174UA wrote:
United Airlines (1926)


Ok, United Airlines was set up in 1928, but as they acquired Varney Air Lines which had been set up in 1926, they have a claim for 1926. I suppose the CNN article looks at which legal entities have been running the longest, and Varney Air Lines itself is not such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... d_Airlines


If that's the case, couldn't AA also claim 1926?

Standard Air lines (1926) -> TWA -> AA


Not quite correct, but AA could still claim 1926 based on another early predecessor, Robertson Aircraft Corporation. Robertson began flying the Air Mail between Chicago and St. Louis on April 15, 1926. This is the date claimed by AA as the start of their company. Standard did not start operating until November 1927, flying passengers and express (NO Air Mail) between Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Tucson, where connections were made with the SPRR. The history of Standard and it's eventual acquisition by American is somewhat convoluted: Standard was bought by Western Air Express in May of 1930, but was forced to sell that route, which had been extended to El Paso, to American Airways in October of that same year. This also was part of the infamous 'Spoils Conference' headed by Postmaster General Brown, that I mentioned in my earlier post. As part of that same conference Western was forced to combine most of their fairly extensive route system with TAT (Transcontinental Air Transport), creating Transcontinental and Western Air (T&WA, soon shortened to TWA). Western was only allowed to keep the Los Angeles to Salt Lake City Air Mail route under their own name. This had been their first operation in 1926. Brown did this in order to create three transcontinental lines: United, TWA, and American, from north to south, All of this was overturned in 1934 when the new FDR administration pushed through the Air Mail Reorganization Act and all existing carriers had to re-bid on Air Mail routes. This was also when the restriction on aircraft and engine manufacturers owning airline companies came into effect, so Boeing and AVCO, the holding company that owned both American and Eastern, had to spin off those companies into new entities. This is a very brief overview of what was an extremely complicated era in early US airline history. Also, remember that in those days it was the Air Mail and it's government subsidy that was important, passengers were merely an afterthought. The mail came first.
 
mga707
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:18 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
United Airlines was a combination of Boeing Air Transport and Varney Airlines.


That is only 2 or the 4 predecessor companies. The other two were Pacific Air Transport along the West Coast (Seattle to San Diego) and National Air Transport from New York to Chicago and Chicago to Dallas. United lost the Chicago-Dallas Air Mail route to newly re-formed Braniff in the 1934 Air Mail reorganization. Boeing Air Transport handled the Chicago-San Francisco portion of the transcontinental Air Mail route while Varney flew the Salt Lake City-Seattle connecting segment.
 
n729pa
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:53 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
In 1921 Qantas will become the first airline to fly continuously for 100 years under their original name. That IMHO will be the first centenary that really means something.

Honourable mention must go to KLM who would almost certainly would have served 100 years continuously under their original name if it wasn't for WWII.


KLM kept operating during world war 2, mainly in the Careibs but also under british supervision between portugal and britain.
It just wasn't from Amsterdam.

It is a delicious irony that KLM's continuous service through WWII is partly due to British Airways (1935) Ltd who had just been merged with Imperial Airways to form BOAC8

BOAC Flight 777 was shot down by Luftwaffe Ju-88s over the Bay of Biscay in 1943, en route from Bristol to Lisbon.
The operator was BOAC, and the aircraft carried a British registration (G-AGBB, ex PH-ALI), but the DC-3 was owned and crewed by KLM employees.
I have selected this image instead of various black & white photos, in order to demonstrate the standard British markings on the tail (vertical flag) and the very similar Dutch flag (long thin stripe) underneath the registration, and also underwing.

Image

FWIW the passenger list was 100% British, so the question is why did BOAC sub-contract this service to KLM? Also who managed the KLM operation and finances, and who actually paid the pilots. Do any financial accounts exist for this period? Are they written in £GBP or Dutch Guilders? Are they on KLM headed paper, or BOAC?


Sorry slight correction. Flight 777 was flying from Lisbon to Bristol when it was shot down not Bristol to Lisbon, the Hollywood filmstar legend Leslie Howard (Gone with the Wind etc.,) was on board, and it was speculated that he was the target on account of his anti-nazi stance.


Anyway whilst I love seeing the BA retro planes coming out, I don't find the BA 100th anniversary very plausible myself. After all I won't be celebrating my 139th birthday next January, for when my grand mother was born. The company I work for, make a thing about being around "since 1815" .....and as we fly our own planes too (yellow and red ones) maybe we have the claim for being the oldest.....(tongue firmly in cheek)

But Air Serbia???
 
Gangurru
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:51 am

Whilst the age of a company often focuses on branding and company ownership, I also consider the employees. After all, they are company assets as much as shares or ownership papers.

Let’s use the theoretical example of Pat the pilot. He or she started on day one and decided this was their job for life. Pat did not change jobs and their employment record was unbroken by bankruptcy. Could he or she be flying for the modern company today?

In the case of BA, the answer is yes.

Instone did not go bankrupt, it was compulsorarily acquired by the British government and its assets partially formed Imperial Airways.
 
325i
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:01 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:32 am

Greetings Folks, RyaairGuru mentioned that QF in 2021 will be the longest running airline.
Not being pedantic but when AJ had a set to with the unions some time ago, they ceased flying for a short period.
Would this not throw a spanner in the works to this claim .just asking
Cheers 325i.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:25 am

KLM did not stop flying during WWII.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:27 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
In 1921 Qantas will become the first airline to fly continuously for 100 years under their original name. That IMHO will be the first centenary that really means something.

Honourable mention must go to KLM who would almost certainly would have served 100 years continuously under their original name if it wasn't for WWII.


KLM did not stop flying during WWII. So this is incorrect.
 
Arion640
Posts: 2394
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:30 am

BA have always maintained they were founded in 1919, although they haven’t publically explained how. If you go back 25 years they would of celebrated their 75th.
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

Brexit - It’s time for global Britain.
 
ELBOB
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:56 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:52 am

Re: BA's claimed centenary

In August 1975 the UK House of Lords ruled that back in 1973 BOAC had breached the Trade Descriptions Act in selling an overbooked seat. However, no conviction could be brought because BOAC had ceased to exist as a legal entity and it was determined that British Airways was a different company and did not assume the responsibilities of BOAC.

Anyone who knows anything at BA knows that it's not a centenary. Perhaps as enthusiasts we could stop referring to it and just talk about BA's 'retro fest' instead and stop undermining airlines like KLM and QANTAS that have a true continuous history. Tag photos with #baRetro instead of #ba100. Don't be an accessory to fake news.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2698
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:16 am

Amsterdam wrote:
KLM did not stop flying during WWII.


The issue is not about flying. It is the company that celebrates 100 years of existence.

A company is incorporated and its shares are traded.
The KLM company was founded on October 7th, 1919, so the company will reach 100 years of existence in October 2019.

KLM's corporate existence was never interrupted and its shares are still traded today. (Though not very many are available on the open market.)
Publicly traded shares are constantly changing hands, so it is of no consequence who is a shareholder in the company.
Over the last 100 years many different people and institutions will have owned shares in KLM, this has no bearing on the existence of the corporation.

If you focus on activities, KLM had a European, a West Indies and an East Indies flying department.
During WWII the European and East Indies flying suffered, though the European flying department did operate for BOAC from Bristol to Lisbon.
It was the West Indian (Caribbean) department based in Curacao, that remained in operation throughout WWII.

So KLM can claim 99 years of continuous operations, as operations started on May 7th, 1920.
 
User avatar
TOGA10
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:28 am

factsonly wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
KLM did not stop flying during WWII.


The issue is not about flying. It is the company that celebrates 100 years of existence.

A company is incorporated and its shares are traded.
The KLM company was founded on October 7th, 1919, so the company will reach 100 years of existence in October 2019.

KLM's corporate existence was never interrupted and its shares are still traded today. (Though not very many are available on the open market.)
Publicly traded shares are constantly changing hands, so it is of no consequence who is a shareholder in the company.
Over the last 100 years many different people and institutions will have owned shares in KLM, this has no bearing on the existence of the corporation.

If you focus on activities, KLM had a European, a West Indies and an East Indies flying department.
During WWII the European and East Indies flying suffered, though the European flying department did operate for BOAC from Bristol to Lisbon.
It was the West Indian (Caribbean) department based in Curacao, that remained in operation throughout WWII.

So KLM can claim 99 years of continuous operations, as operations started on May 7th, 1920.

You really live up to your screen name, thank you.
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
Legs
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:37 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:27 am

325i wrote:
AJ had a set to with the unions some time ago, they ceased flying for a short period.
Cheers 325i.


While the planes stayed on the ground, the airline kept operating as a business. Very different situation to changing corporate entities, forced acquisitons etc.
 
ArtV
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:47 am

Legs wrote:
325i wrote:
AJ had a set to with the unions some time ago, they ceased flying for a short period.
Cheers 325i.


While the planes stayed on the ground, the airline kept operating as a business. Very different situation to changing corporate entities, forced acquisitons etc.


Happens all the time. Airspace being close over Pakistan in recent days effectively grounded PIA for a period....9/11 grounded most elements of US carriers...ash clouds ground carriers....but the airlines still sell tickets and operate as a business during the downtime.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:26 pm

I vote California Pacific. Longest ever to fly CLD-SJC nonstop!!!!!!!!!
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
JibberJim
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:45 pm

Gangurru wrote:
Let’s use the theoretical example of Pat the pilot. He or she started on day one and decided this was their job for life. Pat did not change jobs and their employment record was unbroken by bankruptcy. Could he or she be flying for the modern company today?


I'd just be impressed that they could pass the medical, let alone the dedication to keep up with all the different types!
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 738
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
This list has more holes than a swiss cheese, 2 minutes research can blow most of them out of the water, examples below: (...)
Delta - Went through bankruptcy in 2007.

So? Did Delta stop flying? Did Delta get a new name? Did Delta start again at zero and has the "new airline" been flying for twelve years now? What do you mean?
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:21 pm

US Airways only had 18 years of history since prior to 1997, they were called USAir.
 
slider
Posts: 7423
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:41 pm

mga707 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
United Airlines was a combination of Boeing Air Transport and Varney Airlines.


That is only 2 or the 4 predecessor companies. The other two were Pacific Air Transport along the West Coast (Seattle to San Diego) and National Air Transport from New York to Chicago and Chicago to Dallas. United lost the Chicago-Dallas Air Mail route to newly re-formed Braniff in the 1934 Air Mail reorganization. Boeing Air Transport handled the Chicago-San Francisco portion of the transcontinental Air Mail route while Varney flew the Salt Lake City-Seattle connecting segment.


Some added factoids on that....I find this stuff fascinating and love the history of commercial aviation.

United and Boeing were originally part of one company. The carrier’s predecessor company, Boeing Air Transport, was founded on June 30, 1927, as an airline to operate mail routes.

On October 30, 1928, the Boeing Airplane and Transport Corporation was created to handle both airline and aircraft manufacturing operations. The company’s name was changed on February 1, 1929, to United Aircraft and Transportation Corp., which included Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Northrop Aircraft Corp., Stearman Aircraft Co., Sikorsky Aviation Corp. and Pratt & Whitney Aircraft Co.

In March 1931, Boeing Air Transport, National Air Transport, Varney Airlines and Pacific Air Transport combined to form United Air Lines, which offered passenger and mail service from coast to coast. But after an air mail scandal, Congress passed legislation barring aircraft manufacturers from owning airlines. As a result, United Aircraft and Transport Corporation split into its three parts – Boeing, United Aircraft and United Air Lines.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:33 pm

United Airlines does not have a long history because they used to be called United Air Lines. Note Airlines vs. Air Lines.
 
Qantas59
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: The world's longest-running airlines

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:58 pm

Any thoughts on Avianca?

5 Dec 1919 Sociedad Colombo-Alemana de Transporte Aereo (SCADTA)
14 Jun 1940 Aerovias del Continente Americano S.A. (Avianca)
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ei146, vuelti24, Yflyer and 39 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos