An225
Topic Author
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm

Hello all,
As we know, Boeing's troubles with the MAX are escellating and will have significant effect in the near future or even longer.
So now, the question is what would be the reaction by Airbus. It was noted that Airbus has insufeciant capacity to increase production if some airlines choose to cancel their MAX orders and switch sides. On the other hand, airlines such as Garuda which already canceled its order will have to find replacement for these frames. And since commercial airliners mfg is a doupoly, Airbus is the only option.
That leads to the issue of Airbus's response.
Will they be able to ramp up production of the neo and classic versions?
Will they update the unit price up?
Will they postpone closure of the classic A320's production line and accept new orders?

Please try avoiding the A vs B bashing.

Cheers,

An225
 
Paolo18
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Airbus demise with the A380 has spectacularly exploded with the A320 to replace crippling orders for the 737 max series.

Win win!
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:15 pm

Unless Airbus can substantially increase production, reduce backlog, and offer slots sooner than later, there is nothing they can do with the A32Xneo. Where it could get interesting is the A22X.

I also don't expect Boeing to be idle here. I predict NMA still goes forward. JV with Embraer + a little NMA magic = NSA.
© 2019. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Noshow
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:18 pm

Both of the big manufacturers need healthy airline customers. Nobody will be happy about the current situation for sure with the grounding. Possible new certification standards might come up next needing longer time and making things more expensive.
 
Airlines0613
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:21 pm

Garuda is dropping the order because they are in trouble financially. They are not in a position to replace those frames with another order.

Expect most of the orders to stay put as Airbus has little to no spare capacity to further increase production.
 
Antarius
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 pm

Noshow wrote:
Both of the big manufacturers need healthy airline customers. Nobody will be happy about the current situation for sure with the grounding. Possible new certification standards might come up next needing longer time and making things more expensive.


Exactly.

While I'm sure A is glad it isnt them (as anyone would be) accidents are bad for the industry.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
sxf24
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:32 pm

I think both Airbus and smart enough to avoid publicly taking advantage of a safety issue with the other. Airbus’ private comments have been very respectful and I doubt that will change.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm

This isn't the first time there have been issues with a new aircraft. Working backwards I can think of .. DC-10, 747, 727, Electra, Comet .. and probably others. The fix was put in and the aircraft went on. Well maybe not so much for the Comet. As sxf24 said - they are both smart enough to not comment on safety issues - just as airlines do not respond to another airlines safety issues.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:52 pm

Competition makes each manufacturer better and ( usually ) creates better product, more efficient and more technologically advanced. I doubt we'd have such advanced aircraft without healthy competition. Airbus just got it ( a bit more right ) with the NEO, sales reflect that and now the gap will likely widen further. Unfortunately MAX customers are left in the lurch at present as there's no solution, if the wait for a NEO wasn't a decade I'd bet we'd see Airbus go after MAX customers more aggressively.
 
afgeneral
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:59 pm

Airbus needs to really focus on production capacity of both A320 series and A220. This will give them a boost in the narrow-body market. Boeing might not have the resources to go for the 797 so A321LR wins with higher margins and profits

Long term Airbus might gain a small edge and a few Euro-billions but nothing spectacular will happen unless Boeing really screws up. Duopoly will live on.
 
tropical
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:06 am

If the existing A320 assembly lines had plenty of available extra capacity left, or if a new plant could be planned and built from scratch in a year, A could benefit immensely. But that of course is not the case, and even if the ongoing MAX situation were to result in mass dissatisfaction in the model and scores of airlines wanting to cancel their orders and buy NEOs instead, Airbus' gains will always be limited by how many extra frames it can conjure up and offer within a reasonable time period.

This is what makes the rush to certify the MAX asap at any cost so frustrating imo. If Boeing had taken an extra year to ensure the MAX was certified by the book even if it meant disclosing the significant handling differences between it and the NG and associated extra training for the pilots, Airbus would have pinched a few hundred extra orders at most, and probably less due to their already massive backlog

So the NEO dominance in the order book would just carried on for a bit longer. So what? Many airlines would have simply been unable to switch to A and get NEOs within a reasonable timeframe. And once the MAX was eventually launched the orders would have flooded in all the same. To me it looks as a question of pride. Unless the extra concession in market share was likely to cause significant or lasting problems for the company (never for a moment a possibility here), having to agree losing a particular battle should never be a concern.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 590
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:57 am

afgeneral wrote:
Airbus needs to really focus on production capacity of both A320 series and A220. This will give them a boost in the narrow-body market. Boeing might not have the resources to go for the 797 so A321LR wins with higher margins and profits

Long term Airbus might gain a small edge and a few Euro-billions but nothing spectacular will happen unless Boeing really screws up. Duopoly will live on.


The A320 CEO variant turned 30 last November - I don't think they're going to be focusing there too much there.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:08 am

I bet one of their responses is to have a few people looking through stuff again. Because you can be sure all regulators are going to be more diligent for a while.

This is a good thing.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:14 am

As said they operate a maximum capasity and I doubt critical supply chain will have any additional capacity because of the MAX events.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
An225
Topic Author
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:56 am

Thanks everybody for your insights.

In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?

Thanks,

An225
 
RawSushi
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:26 am

An225 wrote:
Thanks everybody for your insights.

In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?

Thanks,

An225


If i'm not wrong the A320neo and A320ceo share the same assembly lines so I don't think this is possible
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2803
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:59 am

An225 wrote:
Thanks everybody for your insights.

In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?

Thanks,

An225


Same production line and waiting list for the CEO and NEO. If they have a 6 year waiting list for the NEO, then it's also a 6 year wait for a CEO.

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