Hello all,
As we know, Boeing's troubles with the MAX are escellating and will have significant effect in the near future or even longer.
So now, the question is what would be the reaction by Airbus. It was noted that Airbus has insufeciant capacity to increase production if some airlines choose to cancel their MAX orders and switch sides. On the other hand, airlines such as Garuda which already canceled its order will have to find replacement for these frames. And since commercial airliners mfg is a doupoly, Airbus is the only option.
That leads to the issue of Airbus's response.
Will they be able to ramp up production of the neo and classic versions?
Will they update the unit price up?
Will they postpone closure of the classic A320's production line and accept new orders?
Please try avoiding the A vs B bashing.
Cheers,
An225
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Airbus demise with the A380 has spectacularly exploded with the A320 to replace crippling orders for the 737 max series.
Win win!
Win win!
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- GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Unless Airbus can substantially increase production, reduce backlog, and offer slots sooner than later, there is nothing they can do with the A32Xneo. Where it could get interesting is the A22X.
I also don't expect Boeing to be idle here. I predict NMA still goes forward. JV with Embraer + a little NMA magic = NSA.
I also don't expect Boeing to be idle here. I predict NMA still goes forward. JV with Embraer + a little NMA magic = NSA.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Both of the big manufacturers need healthy airline customers. Nobody will be happy about the current situation for sure with the grounding. Possible new certification standards might come up next needing longer time and making things more expensive.
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- Airlines0613
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Garuda is dropping the order because they are in trouble financially. They are not in a position to replace those frames with another order.
Expect most of the orders to stay put as Airbus has little to no spare capacity to further increase production.
Expect most of the orders to stay put as Airbus has little to no spare capacity to further increase production.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Noshow wrote:Both of the big manufacturers need healthy airline customers. Nobody will be happy about the current situation for sure with the grounding. Possible new certification standards might come up next needing longer time and making things more expensive.
Exactly.
While I'm sure A is glad it isnt them (as anyone would be) accidents are bad for the industry.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
I think both Airbus and smart enough to avoid publicly taking advantage of a safety issue with the other. Airbus’ private comments have been very respectful and I doubt that will change.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
This isn't the first time there have been issues with a new aircraft. Working backwards I can think of .. DC-10, 747, 727, Electra, Comet .. and probably others. The fix was put in and the aircraft went on. Well maybe not so much for the Comet. As sxf24 said - they are both smart enough to not comment on safety issues - just as airlines do not respond to another airlines safety issues.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Competition makes each manufacturer better and ( usually ) creates better product, more efficient and more technologically advanced. I doubt we'd have such advanced aircraft without healthy competition. Airbus just got it ( a bit more right ) with the NEO, sales reflect that and now the gap will likely widen further. Unfortunately MAX customers are left in the lurch at present as there's no solution, if the wait for a NEO wasn't a decade I'd bet we'd see Airbus go after MAX customers more aggressively.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Airbus needs to really focus on production capacity of both A320 series and A220. This will give them a boost in the narrow-body market. Boeing might not have the resources to go for the 797 so A321LR wins with higher margins and profits
Long term Airbus might gain a small edge and a few Euro-billions but nothing spectacular will happen unless Boeing really screws up. Duopoly will live on.
Long term Airbus might gain a small edge and a few Euro-billions but nothing spectacular will happen unless Boeing really screws up. Duopoly will live on.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
If the existing A320 assembly lines had plenty of available extra capacity left, or if a new plant could be planned and built from scratch in a year, A could benefit immensely. But that of course is not the case, and even if the ongoing MAX situation were to result in mass dissatisfaction in the model and scores of airlines wanting to cancel their orders and buy NEOs instead, Airbus' gains will always be limited by how many extra frames it can conjure up and offer within a reasonable time period.
This is what makes the rush to certify the MAX asap at any cost so frustrating imo. If Boeing had taken an extra year to ensure the MAX was certified by the book even if it meant disclosing the significant handling differences between it and the NG and associated extra training for the pilots, Airbus would have pinched a few hundred extra orders at most, and probably less due to their already massive backlog
So the NEO dominance in the order book would just carried on for a bit longer. So what? Many airlines would have simply been unable to switch to A and get NEOs within a reasonable timeframe. And once the MAX was eventually launched the orders would have flooded in all the same. To me it looks as a question of pride. Unless the extra concession in market share was likely to cause significant or lasting problems for the company (never for a moment a possibility here), having to agree losing a particular battle should never be a concern.
This is what makes the rush to certify the MAX asap at any cost so frustrating imo. If Boeing had taken an extra year to ensure the MAX was certified by the book even if it meant disclosing the significant handling differences between it and the NG and associated extra training for the pilots, Airbus would have pinched a few hundred extra orders at most, and probably less due to their already massive backlog
So the NEO dominance in the order book would just carried on for a bit longer. So what? Many airlines would have simply been unable to switch to A and get NEOs within a reasonable timeframe. And once the MAX was eventually launched the orders would have flooded in all the same. To me it looks as a question of pride. Unless the extra concession in market share was likely to cause significant or lasting problems for the company (never for a moment a possibility here), having to agree losing a particular battle should never be a concern.
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Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
afgeneral wrote:Airbus needs to really focus on production capacity of both A320 series and A220. This will give them a boost in the narrow-body market. Boeing might not have the resources to go for the 797 so A321LR wins with higher margins and profits
Long term Airbus might gain a small edge and a few Euro-billions but nothing spectacular will happen unless Boeing really screws up. Duopoly will live on.
The A320 CEO variant turned 30 last November - I don't think they're going to be focusing there too much there.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
I bet one of their responses is to have a few people looking through stuff again. Because you can be sure all regulators are going to be more diligent for a while.
This is a good thing.
This is a good thing.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
As said they operate a maximum capasity and I doubt critical supply chain will have any additional capacity because of the MAX events.
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
Thanks everybody for your insights.
In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?
Thanks,
An225
In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?
Thanks,
An225
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
An225 wrote:Thanks everybody for your insights.
In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?
Thanks,
An225
If i'm not wrong the A320neo and A320ceo share the same assembly lines so I don't think this is possible
Re: Airbus response to Boeing's troubles
An225 wrote:Thanks everybody for your insights.
In a related matter, based on the most updated list prices that I have, it seems that Airbus still offers the A320ceo.
Is it possible for customers to order the ceo versions given the huge demand for the neo?
If that is possible, will they be able to have earlier slots compared to the impossible backlog of the neo?
Finally, is it business sensible to buy the ceo and get the frames earlier while sacrificing efficiency?
Thanks,
An225
Same production line and waiting list for the CEO and NEO. If they have a 6 year waiting list for the NEO, then it's also a 6 year wait for a CEO.
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