GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:30 pm

Many European, Asian and American cities have two airports. Which cities on the planet need new(second, third or fourth) airport?
I still think NYC needs fourth airport that is at least 45min by train from Penn. station something like Kansai airport.
What is next “congested” city?
 
theasianguy
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:31 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:43 pm

Seattle, Tokyo, Berlin, Mumbai, Mexico City, Sydney
 
seb146
Posts: 20207
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:14 pm

I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
jplatts
Posts: 2652
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:31 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
I still think NYC needs fourth airport that is at least 45min by train from Penn. station something like Kansai airport.


In the NYC market, ISP, SWF, and HPN all already have commercial passenger air service in addition to LGA, JFK, and EWR.

While ISP doesn't currently have direct rail access to the passenger terminal, the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is located on the north side of the ISP airport property.

There is currently no commuter rail line to SWF, but a spur of the Main/Bergen-Port Jervis Line could be extended to SWF from the Salisbury Mills Cornwall station.

ISP and SWF could become viable alternatives to LGA, JFK, and EWR by expanding the passenger terminals and by adding direct rail access to Penn Station from the passenger terminals.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3421
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.

PAE is limited to something like 28 flights per day - at present they're all E175's, CRJ's (regional jets). Doesn't make a dent in SEA's congestion. Even if they all upgauged to mainline aircraft, the effect on SEA would be minimal. SEA is limited in how much it can expand by geography - while the chances of it happening here in NIMBY-land are next to zero, the Seattle-Tacoma area could use another commercial airport
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.


Why would South Florida need another airport?
 
StormRider
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:50 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
Many European, Asian and American cities have two airports. Which cities on the planet need new(second, third or fourth) airport?
I still think NYC needs fourth airport that is at least 45min by train from Penn. station something like Kansai airport.
What is next “congested” city?


New Delhi, Mumbai (under construction...although slowly), Pune (definitely, as it is basically a civilian enclave on an Air Force base)
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:09 pm

theasianguy wrote:
Seattle, Tokyo, Berlin, Mumbai, Mexico City, Sydney


Except Tokyo does have a 3rd airport (Ibaraki)...that nobody uses bc it’s in a galaxy far, far away. Also, NRT can take quite a bit more traffic as-is, and once the 3rd runway at NRT is finished, there is even less need for yet another alternative airport.

As for Berlin, well, they can’t even build BER correctly. Another new airport would probably be completed by 2080 even if they start today.

Do agree about BOM and of course, MEX and that half finished airport.
 
natamikhaylova
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:29 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:31 pm

I think Asian cities need more airport. Today many tourists want to visit Balim Taiwan, China etc. and many international relations follow to these countries.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:44 am

ER757 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.

PAE is limited to something like 28 flights per day - at present they're all E175's, CRJ's (regional jets). Doesn't make a dent in SEA's congestion. Even if they all upgauged to mainline aircraft, the effect on SEA would be minimal. SEA is limited in how much it can expand by geography - while the chances of it happening here in NIMBY-land are next to zero, the Seattle-Tacoma area could use another commercial airport


Don't forget that Boeing Field also sees some commercial flights, so together with Seattle-Tacoma and Paine Field that makes three commercial airports for Seattle.

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for Berlin, well, they can’t even build BER correctly. Another new airport would probably be completed by 2080 even if they start today.


That might be because they were building it far too big. Smaller airports are easier to build than big ones, and the expansion can come later.

Initially it was meant for Tegel and Schönefeld to be closed once the new Berlin airport opens. Now I think they better keep them open to spread the traffic and thus have more total capacity.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:49 am

Amsterdam could have a second airport. Luckily, it's being built. Lelystad, a former GA airfield, has it's runway extended and a platform and terminal built. It's not yet open, but it will be.

Las Vegas could use another airport, the current one is very much full and cannot expand. While it's very convenient in the heart of the city, there might be demand for a less convenient airport outside the city.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:55 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
That might be because they were building it far too big. Smaller airports are easier to build than big ones, and the expansion can come later.

Initially it was meant for Tegel and Schönefeld to be closed once the new Berlin airport opens. Now I think they better keep them open to spread the traffic and thus have more total capacity.


I just love to make fun of BER (b/c we all know Brandenburg Airport won't be open in 2020, or 2025, or 2030), nothing more than that 8-)

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Las Vegas could use another airport, the current one is very much full and cannot expand. While it's very convenient in the heart of the city, there might be demand for a less convenient airport outside the city.


The proposed Ivanpah Valley airport perhaps?

https://www.ktnv.com/news/county-consid ... -las-vegas

That should open before BER does anyway.

natamikhaylova wrote:
I think Asian cities need more airport. Today many tourists want to visit Balim Taiwan, China etc. and many international relations follow to these countries.


Which Asian cities? You know Asia is yuuuge, right?

(Mainland) China had been building new airports left and right, most of them as large as US airports (aka a gajillion runways with plenty of room for expansion), so those are sets.
Taiwan does not need any new airport. The busiest airport, TPE, is not even full yet. All the other airports are tiny (in terms of pax number) by comparison. TSA would be the only airport that's somewhat constrained, but that's what TPE is there for.

Even the worst airport in SE Asia, aka MNL, has a reliever airport in CRK (and CRK is being increasingly used exactly b/c MNL is a total chaos).
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:59 pm

Jakarta, because CGK is chaotic and has no room for expansion and Terminal 3 isn't helping that much. Factor in the fact that HLP isn't very useful because it is also used by the Air Force, and thats why Jakarta needs a third airport.
 
seb146
Posts: 20207
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:55 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.

PAE is limited to something like 28 flights per day - at present they're all E175's, CRJ's (regional jets). Doesn't make a dent in SEA's congestion. Even if they all upgauged to mainline aircraft, the effect on SEA would be minimal. SEA is limited in how much it can expand by geography - while the chances of it happening here in NIMBY-land are next to zero, the Seattle-Tacoma area could use another commercial airport


Don't forget that Boeing Field also sees some commercial flights, so together with Seattle-Tacoma and Paine Field that makes three commercial airports for Seattle.


I lived in south King County many years ago and I remember they had international flights. Twice a day helicopter service to Vancouver. I have not been to BFI in several years. The last time I was there, it was one airline flying Cessna Caravans to Friday Harbor.

Unless the United States Military abandons Joint Base Lewis-McChord, there is really no land to build something that size.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
rjsampson
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:01 pm

KSAN. Its single runway will be maxed out in 10 years. Unfortunately, all proposals (namely, joint use of Miramar Marine Corps Air Station) will not happen, so San Diego is pretty stuck.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:03 pm

TheEuphorian wrote:
Jakarta, because CGK is chaotic and has no room for expansion and Terminal 3 isn't helping that much. Factor in the fact that HLP isn't very useful because it is also used by the Air Force, and thats why Jakarta needs a third airport.


I thought they're finishing up the 3rd runway and will soon build T4? That should help things a little bit.

Perhaps they can open up Pondok Cabe Airport (near South Tangerang/Depok border) or Atang Senjaya Airport (in Bogor) more? Or just improve access to Kertajati International Airport (KJT) since that's brand new and way underuse.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3421
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:58 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.

PAE is limited to something like 28 flights per day - at present they're all E175's, CRJ's (regional jets). Doesn't make a dent in SEA's congestion. Even if they all upgauged to mainline aircraft, the effect on SEA would be minimal. SEA is limited in how much it can expand by geography - while the chances of it happening here in NIMBY-land are next to zero, the Seattle-Tacoma area could use another commercial airport


Don't forget that Boeing Field also sees some commercial flights, so together with Seattle-Tacoma and Paine Field that makes three commercial airports for Seattle.

There are no commercial passenger flights to BFI - UPS runs their cargo ops at BFI and there are charters such as Omni and Clay Lacy, but no scheduled passenger services. WN wanted to fly there about 10 years ago but it was quickly shot down by the locals concerned about noise, traffic etc
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1680
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:30 pm

ER757 wrote:
There are no commercial passenger flights to BFI - UPS runs their cargo ops at BFI and there are charters such as Omni and Clay Lacy, but no scheduled passenger services. WN wanted to fly there about 10 years ago but it was quickly shot down by the locals concerned about noise, traffic etc


According to Wikipedia BFI does have commuter flights from Kenmore Air. And there was SeaPort Airlines until they went under.
 
seb146
Posts: 20207
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:12 am

Yflyer wrote:
ER757 wrote:
There are no commercial passenger flights to BFI - UPS runs their cargo ops at BFI and there are charters such as Omni and Clay Lacy, but no scheduled passenger services. WN wanted to fly there about 10 years ago but it was quickly shot down by the locals concerned about noise, traffic etc


According to Wikipedia BFI does have commuter flights from Kenmore Air. And there was SeaPort Airlines until they went under.


According to their website, Kenmore Air flies from BFI to Orcas and Friday Harbor.

For SAN, isn't there an intra-state carrier that flies out of Carlsbad? Would it be possible to expand that field at least for regional flights?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3530
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:25 pm

Yflyer wrote:
ER757 wrote:
There are no commercial passenger flights to BFI - UPS runs their cargo ops at BFI and there are charters such as Omni and Clay Lacy, but no scheduled passenger services. WN wanted to fly there about 10 years ago but it was quickly shot down by the locals concerned about noise, traffic etc


According to Wikipedia BFI does have commuter flights from Kenmore Air. And there was SeaPort Airlines until they went under.


Alright, well, if we're going to count Kenmore (great operation, no disrespect), throw in KEH/W55 (which may both enplane more pax than BFI) and boom--metro Seattle has five commercial airports!

PAE needs to grow, OLM probably needs to get a look in a few years. Pretty much anything else is going to be shot on sight.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
global2
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:50 am

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:51 pm

jplatts wrote:
GalebG4 wrote:
I still think NYC needs fourth airport that is at least 45min by train from Penn. station something like Kansai airport.


In the NYC market, ISP, SWF, and HPN all already have commercial passenger air service in addition to LGA, JFK, and EWR.

While ISP doesn't currently have direct rail access to the passenger terminal, the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is located on the north side of the ISP airport property.

There is currently no commuter rail line to SWF, but a spur of the Main/Bergen-Port Jervis Line could be extended to SWF from the Salisbury Mills Cornwall station.

ISP and SWF could become viable alternatives to LGA, JFK, and EWR by expanding the passenger terminals and by adding direct rail access to Penn Station from the passenger terminals.


ISP maybe, because the Ronkonkoma branch has pretty frequent service throughout the day to Penn Station. If they could build some sort of people mover between the airport terminal and the train station that could do it. Unfortunately the terminal is on the wrong side of the ariport so the route would have to be long and circuitous.

SWF on the other hand... Governor Cuomo squandered a golden opportunity to vastly increase rail service to Rockland County when he nixed plans for rail service over the new Tappan Zee Bridge. It was way more important for him to guarantee he would still be in office to attend the ribbon cutting photo op and unilaterally decide to rename the bridge after his Dad. So you're left with a single-track line that has only a half a dozen trains a day, and requires a change in Secaucus in order to get to Manhattan. It's never going to receive the investment dollars to build a connection to the airport and beef up service to the level where it's going to attract a significant ridership.
 
GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:39 am

global2 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
GalebG4 wrote:
I still think NYC needs fourth airport that is at least 45min by train from Penn. station something like Kansai airport.


In the NYC market, ISP, SWF, and HPN all already have commercial passenger air service in addition to LGA, JFK, and EWR.

While ISP doesn't currently have direct rail access to the passenger terminal, the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is located on the north side of the ISP airport property.

There is currently no commuter rail line to SWF, but a spur of the Main/Bergen-Port Jervis Line could be extended to SWF from the Salisbury Mills Cornwall station.

ISP and SWF could become viable alternatives to LGA, JFK, and EWR by expanding the passenger terminals and by adding direct rail access to Penn Station from the passenger terminals.


ISP maybe, because the Ronkonkoma branch has pretty frequent service throughout the day to Penn Station. If they could build some sort of people mover between the airport terminal and the train station that could do it. Unfortunately the terminal is on the wrong side of the ariport so the route would have to be long and circuitous.

SWF on the other hand... Governor Cuomo squandered a golden opportunity to vastly increase rail service to Rockland County when he nixed plans for rail service over the new Tappan Zee Bridge. It was way more important for him to guarantee he would still be in office to attend the ribbon cutting photo op and unilaterally decide to rename the bridge after his Dad. So you're left with a single-track line that has only a half a dozen trains a day, and requires a change in Secaucus in order to get to Manhattan. It's never going to receive the investment dollars to build a connection to the airport and beef up service to the level where it's going to attract a significant ridership.


They simply don’t care or secretly protect monopolies, duopolies, triopolies who ever pays “lobby” more. Unfortunately that’s with all politicians around the world.
 
User avatar
FlyRow
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: Which city does need second, third or fourth airport.

Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:41 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I thought AS had started service to PAE? And aren't there two other airports close to NYC that LCCs use? I would think a second airport in ATL would be convenient. And another airport in south Florida.

PAE is limited to something like 28 flights per day - at present they're all E175's, CRJ's (regional jets). Doesn't make a dent in SEA's congestion. Even if they all upgauged to mainline aircraft, the effect on SEA would be minimal. SEA is limited in how much it can expand by geography - while the chances of it happening here in NIMBY-land are next to zero, the Seattle-Tacoma area could use another commercial airport


Don't forget that Boeing Field also sees some commercial flights, so together with Seattle-Tacoma and Paine Field that makes three commercial airports for Seattle.

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for Berlin, well, they can’t even build BER correctly. Another new airport would probably be completed by 2080 even if they start today.


That might be because they were building it far too big. Smaller airports are easier to build than big ones, and the expansion can come later.

Initially it was meant for Tegel and Schönefeld to be closed once the new Berlin airport opens. Now I think they better keep them open to spread the traffic and thus have more total capacity.


Wasn't BER too small even before opening? They planned on closing everything but even if it was finished they couldn't closed the other old airports as BER is to small already to releave all them.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos