anthonycII
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Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:30 am

Greetings. There are some obvious international airports not serviced by US commercial carriers. But I'm curious as to any major international airports serviced by other countries that US commercial airlines do not service due to other reasons than current "unrest".
Last edited by atcsundevil on Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title edited for clarity
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:21 am

As this is an international website, could the title be changed into "non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?"

Anyway, to answer the question as I understand it, the list is almost endless, many of them just due to distance and some due to demographics. All Moscow airports (DME/SVO/VKO), CAI, CPT, DXB, BKK, KUL - the list goes on and on.
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sw733
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pm

What’s your definition of “major”?
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:22 pm

SVO, WAW, HEL, OSL... all of these. US carriers are too afraid of flying to European airports besides LHR, FRA, CDG etc. all of which are already overcrowded
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Andy33
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:39 pm

Well the UK alone has ABZ, BHX, BRS, CDF, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, BFS, LTN, SEN, NWI, STN. LCY, EMA, DSA, LBA, LPL, HUY, NCL, MME, PIK,as international airports with no US airlines. Some of them do have flights to the US by other airlines, of course, though some have been served by US airlines in the past. Obviously the size and importance of the airports vary significantly.
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:49 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Well the UK alone has ABZ, BHX, BRS, CDF, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, BFS, LTN, SEN, NWI, STN. LCY, EMA, DSA, LBA, LPL, HUY, NCL, MME, PIK,as international airports with no US airlines. Some of them do have flights to the US by other airlines, of course, though some have been served by US airlines in the past. Obviously the size and importance of the airports vary significantly.

,
LTN and STN are low-cost airline hell, and isn't the runway at LCY too short to serve larger planes? LGW transcon needs to be brought back tho especially with the overcrowding problem at LHR
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Andy33
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:58 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Well the UK alone has ABZ, BHX, BRS, CDF, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, BFS, LTN, SEN, NWI, STN. LCY, EMA, DSA, LBA, LPL, HUY, NCL, MME, PIK,as international airports with no US airlines. Some of them do have flights to the US by other airlines, of course, though some have been served by US airlines in the past. Obviously the size and importance of the airports vary significantly.

,
LTN and STN are low-cost airline hell, and isn't the runway at LCY too short to serve larger planes? LGW transcon needs to be brought back tho especially with the overcrowding problem at LHR


You're right about LTN and STN, but they're both significant international airports, and STN has had US carrier service in the past. Of course LCY currently has service to the US by BA on an A318, and CS100s are also certified for the airport (a hint to Delta?)
.
There's plenty of transatlantic service at LGW: Air Transat, Westjet, Norwegian, and BA, just no US carriers any more.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:05 pm

Andy33 wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Well the UK alone has ABZ, BHX, BRS, CDF, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, BFS, LTN, SEN, NWI, STN. LCY, EMA, DSA, LBA, LPL, HUY, NCL, MME, PIK,as international airports with no US airlines. Some of them do have flights to the US by other airlines, of course, though some have been served by US airlines in the past. Obviously the size and importance of the airports vary significantly.

,
LTN and STN are low-cost airline hell, and isn't the runway at LCY too short to serve larger planes? LGW transcon needs to be brought back tho especially with the overcrowding problem at LHR


You're right about LTN and STN, but they're both significant international airports, and STN has had US carrier service in the past. Of course LCY currently has service to the US by BA on an A318, and CS100s are also certified for the airport (a hint to Delta?)
.
There's plenty of transatlantic service at LGW: Air Transat, Westjet, Norwegian, and BA, just no US carriers any more.


Virgin also has a sizeable TATL presence at LGW, both in terms of the US and the Caribbean/Mexico.
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Galwayman
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:10 pm

It’s a massive list . US airlines do very little international flying .... pretty much every capital city in Africa , dozens of million plus cities in Asia ...
 
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Seabear
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:24 pm

TIJ
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:52 pm

Any airport in India besides BOM/DEL.
 
minilinde
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:10 pm

Just easier to list the airports US3 actually flies to...
 
mdavies06
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:23 pm

DXB, CAN, IST, BKK, CGK, MNL, KUL, SZX, SVO are examples of the largest major airports. The common factors are probably distance and lack of volume and yield for US pax carriers.
 
Akiestar
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:30 pm

mdavies06 wrote:
DXB, CAN, IST, BKK, CGK, MNL, KUL, SZX, SVO are examples of the largest major airports. The common factors are probably distance and lack of volume and yield for US pax carriers.


MNL is served by U.S. carriers: DL flies to NRT (which continues to HNL), while UA flies to GUM.

Now if we're talking about service from the continental United States (or even that plus Alaska and Hawaii), then that's a different discussion altogether.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:39 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Well the UK alone has ABZ, BHX, BRS, CDF, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, BFS, LTN, SEN, NWI, STN. LCY, EMA, DSA, LBA, LPL, HUY, NCL, MME, PIK,as international airports with no US airlines. Some of them do have flights to the US by other airlines, of course, though some have been served by US airlines in the past. Obviously the size and importance of the airports vary significantly.

UPS and Southern Air/DHL fly TATL flights to EMA as US Carriers. No-one said they had to be Pax flights...
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:02 pm

emuwarveteran wrote:
SVO, WAW, HEL, OSL... all of these. US carriers are too afraid of flying to European airports besides LHR, FRA, CDG etc. all of which are already overcrowded


You're forgetting Vienna.

I always found it a bit odd that none of the US3 served Vienna, the largest airport in Austria and home base of Austrian Airlines. You'd think that United, the Star Alliance partner of Austrian, would fly there. They don't.
 
IADCA
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:10 pm

anthonycII wrote:
Greetings. There are some obvious international airports not serviced by US commercial carriers. But I'm curious as to any major international airports serviced by other countries that US commercial airlines do not service due to other reasons than current "unrest".


This list would be really long. Consider that of the top 20 non-US airports by passenger count, six (DXB, CAN, IST, CGK, BKK, KUL) don't have passenger service on US carriers. All of those are long flights from the mainland US and many are low-yielding, but we're still talking about airports with 50 million+ passengers per year.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
emuwarveteran wrote:
SVO, WAW, HEL, OSL... all of these. US carriers are too afraid of flying to European airports besides LHR, FRA, CDG etc. all of which are already overcrowded


You're forgetting Vienna.

I always found it a bit odd that none of the US3 served Vienna, the largest airport in Austria and home base of Austrian Airlines. You'd think that United, the Star Alliance partner of Austrian, would fly there. They don't.


Austrian is part of the A++ JV with UA, which is metal-neutral and shared-revenue. There's no reason for UA to fly the routes when Austrian already does; it would be competing with themselves.
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:41 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
You're forgetting Vienna.

I always found it a bit odd that none of the US3 served Vienna, the largest airport in Austria and home base of Austrian Airlines. You'd think that United, the Star Alliance partner of Austrian, would fly there. They don't.


Forgot about it because I thought at least one of the US3 already flew there, apparently nope. Interesting. Yeah VIE deserves more too.
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StormRider
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Re: Foreign International Airports Not Serviced

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:28 pm

sw733 wrote:
What’s your definition of “major”?


Yeah this....
 
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Eindhoven
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:45 pm

EIN has no service by any US airlines.

More realistic, PMI is one of the busiest airports in Europe and no TATL service at all. Not on European and not on US airlines.

I was surprised CPH has very little service on US airlines, only DL has a seasonal flight to JFK. AA and UA don't fly to CPH as well, despite it being a rather major hub in Europe. Also the city draws quite a few tourists including from the USA. As a capital I can imagine a good amount of business traffic as well. But SK and DY cover the market between CPH and the USA.

Even PRG has more service on the US airlines than CPH with DL seasonal to JFK and UA soon starting a seasonal to EWR. But PRG does not have a TATL home carrier like CPH.

DUS is also very disappointing with only DL to ATL. Not even from JFK, EW has a monopoly on DUS-JFK. Just like with CPH, AA and UA don't fly there.

ARN only has a seasonal flight to EWR on UA, but is not served by AA and DL. Again SK and DY rule the market.
 
smallmj
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:35 pm

YYG, YFC, YQX, YFB, YXU, YQM, YXS, YQR, YSJ, YYT, YQT, YXY, and YZF are all part of the National Airports System (Canada) -- so in a way they are major. None of them have service from the big US carriers (including regional helpers and Alaskan).

Perhaps you should define major airport if you don't want silly responses like mine. :)
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:18 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
EIN has no service by any US airlines.

More realistic, PMI is one of the busiest airports in Europe and no TATL service at all. Not on European and not on US airlines.

I was surprised CPH has very little service on US airlines, only DL has a seasonal flight to JFK. AA and UA don't fly to CPH as well, despite it being a rather major hub in Europe. Also the city draws quite a few tourists including from the USA. As a capital I can imagine a good amount of business traffic as well. But SK and DY cover the market between CPH and the USA.

Even PRG has more service on the US airlines than CPH with DL seasonal to JFK and UA soon starting a seasonal to EWR. But PRG does not have a TATL home carrier like CPH.

DUS is also very disappointing with only DL to ATL. Not even from JFK, EW has a monopoly on DUS-JFK. Just like with CPH, AA and UA don't fly there.

ARN only has a seasonal flight to EWR on UA, but is not served by AA and DL. Again SK and DY rule the market.


OSL and HEL don’t even have seasonal service on the US3, only SK/DY and AY respectively.

Meanwhile, KEF has all three on a seasonal basis and DL year round. Who would’ve thought... ;)
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alan3
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:28 pm

Going by the most recent busiest airports in the world stats, the largest airports not served by a US airline are (in order):

1. DXB
2. CAN
3. IST
4. CGK
5. BKK
6. KUL

The busiest airports in the world not directly connected to the US by ANY airline are (in order):

1. CGK (Jakarta)
2. BKK (Bangkok)
3. KUL (Kuala Lumpur)
 
Airstud
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:21 pm

NGS
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Airstud
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:58 pm

NGO.

I meant NGO. :boggled:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
TG788
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:59 am

Airstud wrote:
NGO.

I meant NGO. :boggled:


NGO is served by DL and UA.
 
Airstud
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:05 am

TG788 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
NGO.

I meant NGO. :boggled:


NGO is served by DL and UA.


Then what the hell was I thinking of?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
TG788
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:24 am

Airstud wrote:
TG788 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
NGO.

I meant NGO. :boggled:


NGO is served by DL and UA.


Then what the hell was I thinking of?


Perhaps it was NGS all along! :D
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:10 pm

How about airports that used to have a presence from U.S. carriers? For instance, new BKK (Suvarnabhumi)/old BKK (Don Mueang), MNL, DXB and IST.

UA and NW had multiple daily flights between SFO/LAX and Don Mueang/Manila, using 5th freedom hops across Asia. Some of them can be found in the Operation Boijinka exhibits as part of the trial against Ramzi Yousef.

UA and NW also used to fly direct between Seattle and Bangkok, UA875 SEA-NRT-BKK and NW7 SEA-NRT-BKK. Delta flew from Portland to Bangkok as DL59 PDX-SEL-TPE-BKK (this was before ICN opened). They're not U.S. airlines, but Canadian Airlines/CP Air flew from Vancouver to Bangkok (CP7 YVR-HKG-BKK); TG also flew between Seattle and Bangkok, I think it was TG742/743 DFW-SEA-NRT-BKK, at various times the 5th freedom stopover was switched to TPE and DFW was swapped with YYZ.

Northwest used DC-10s, 747-200s and 747-400s. United used 747SPs and 747-400s. Delta used the L-1011 and later MD-11 for PDX-BKK. CP used specially modified DC-10s with extra fuel tanks for the long trip from Vancouver to Kai Tak. Thai used 747-200s and I think DC-10s for SEA-BKK, not sure about YVR-BKK.

It's a pity that:

1. There's no service by U.S. carriers to Thailand and the Philippines
2. Northwest/United lost confidence in Seattle as a TPAC hub (it's the closest city in the contiguous U.S. to Asia)
3. Delta lost confidence in PDX as a TPAC hub.

I'm guessing the 1997 Asian financial crisis, post 9/11 effects on aviation/oil prices/security, and political instability in Thailand/the Philippines all played a role. Also. At least in Seattle, United could codeshare with EVA, Asiana and ANA, while Northwest/Delta could codeshare with Korean Air. All four of these Asian carriers have deep networks in SE Asia, and can make TPE/ICN/NRT and BKK/MNL work because:

a) There's lots of business travel between Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and Thailand/Philippines, so BR/KE/OZ can fill multiple daily 77Ws with high-yielding traffic
b) Because of the relatively short distance between NE and SE Asia, they can run A321s or A330s on these routes, instead of having to run a direct SEA-BKK or SEA-MNL 744/77W which might lose money due to the fuel consumption
c) They have to compete with Asian LCCs like NokScoot, Tigerair, Philippines AirAsia, Cebu Pacific, etc., which lowers prices across the board and makes a direct SEA-BKK or SEA-MNL even more of a sucker's bet

That's not even mentioning the deep bamboo networks (China-SE Asia); DL's daily SEA-PVG can codeshare with China Eastern and China Southern, while Hainan and Xiamen both serve SEA. This also applies to SGN (outside of California and Texas, the Puget Sound has the second largest Vietnamese community in the U.S., after the DC metro). The US3 can just pass that traffic off to HU/MU/CZ/BR/OZ/KE (or PR when it comes to MNL-SFO/LAX), while focusing on their more profitable U.S.-Asia routes out of SFO and LAX. Alaska can feed PDX traffic into SEA.

It's the same here at YVR: Vancouver's large Chinese community and the close business ties with mainland China allows for a large bamboo network, which dumps to southern India, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Dubai, Pakistan and Indonesia, all areas where YVR lacks direct service. The CN3 of CA/MU/CZ already have cheap fares to Delhi and north India, not to mention Hainan, Sichuan, Xiamen, etc. This makes sense since Vancouver-India traffic is mostly low-yielding O&D (VFR or leisure), just like Seattle-Vietnam traffic is, or Vancouver-Singapore, or Vancouver-Dubai. (British Columbia does not have close ties with either Singapore nor the UAE--most of the Canada-Gulf ties are in Ontario and Quebec, while most of the U.S.-Singapore ties are out of San Francisco or L.A.)

The US3's presence in the Gulf/India/Turkey is also pitiful. It's no surprise Lufthansa and KLM+Airfrance already dump a lot of cheap traffic to the Middle East, India and subsaharan Africa (here in YVR, LH manages to fill a daily 744 thanks to all the Indian pax headed to DEL). Also, Air India is a trainwreck, while the ME3 + TK + ET are going through dizzying growth (though whether or not ET can get on par with the ME3 + TK as a global carrier remains to be seen). ET/TK/LH are also Star Alliance which mean they work closely with United, while KL/AF are Skyteam (and already have a close relationship with Delta) and QR for the time being remains in Oneworld, with a close partnership between AA as well as BA.

UA had daily IAD-DXB/JFK-IST and DL had daily ATL-DXB, I believe using 772s. I wouldn't be surprised are other flights to BOM, AUH, DOH, etc. that I'm missing here. Emirates had a daily 77W and 77L to SEA (now just the evening 77W), but I think that was just for belly cargo for EK's maintenance base (which is a reason I've heard as to why they didn't send the 388, because the 777s can carry more belly cargo). Flying nonstop is about $1600 US, but Google Flights U.S. is showing that SEA-LHR-DXB on BA is $300 cheaper for dates in November (I checked it in incognito mode). By comparison, flying YVR-DXB on BA is about $1,100 CAD (~$840 US) for the same dates.

Lastly, I wonder how Ethiopians in Seattle prefer to travel to Addis since ET has no nonstop SEA-ADD service.

Here are interesting facts about CP's DC-10-30s. When the FAA finally allowed United to fly ORD-SEA-NRT/ORD-PDX-NRT and JFK-SEA-HKG in 1983 (the Royal Pacific service), they leased five DC-10s from CP (which were being used on domestic routes) since their own DC-10-10s didn't have the range, and their 747SP orders wouldn't be arriving until 1985. United also added an extra fuel tank in the aft cargo compartment, which meant that the flights were weight-restricted. Under the cross-lease agreement, they retained their Canadian registration (e.g. C-GCPH), and CP's DC-10 crews had to also get an FAA commercial pilot's license! Source: old A.net posts, taxiways.de
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:01 pm

BLR
 
Akiestar
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:39 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
How about airports that used to have a presence from U.S. carriers? For instance, new BKK (Suvarnabhumi)/old BKK (Don Mueang), MNL, DXB and IST.


I'm going to repeat myself here: MNL has a presence from U.S. carriers. DL still flies there (albeit with a greatly reduced presence), and so does UA.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Non-US airports not serviced by US airlines?

Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:45 am

Akiestar wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
How about airports that used to have a presence from U.S. carriers? For instance, new BKK (Suvarnabhumi)/old BKK (Don Mueang), MNL, DXB and IST.


I'm going to repeat myself here: MNL has a presence from U.S. carriers. DL still flies there (albeit with a greatly reduced presence), and so does UA.


I did some research and you're right. I can't believe DL even bothers with HNL-MNL, I would have expected PR to completely dominate the Hawaii-Philippines market like it does the mainland U.S.-Philippines market. As for UA, I'm guessing its GUM-MNL/ROR-MNL are a legacy from the Continental Micronesia days.

Speaking of ROR-MNL, how did a U.S. airline manage to get a route that doesn't serve any U.S. destination? That's crazy

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