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lugie
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Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:45 pm

I'm originally from Germany and very used to being able to drive to every place in the country within more or less 10 hours. That means that domestic travel is usually associated with cars or trains - domestic flights obviously exist (never forget LH running B744s FRA-TXL and A346s MUC-TXL after the AB collapse) but most people never take one, they're very much so associated with business travel only.

Now I've lived in North Carolina since last August and one thing that always struck me as astonishing is the number of not only domestic, but within-state flights you can take here. NC is definitely not a small state but also far off the size of Cali, Texas or Alaska and still there are various routes served many times daily: AA flies from CLT to AVL, GSO, RDU, FAY, PGV, EWN, OAJ, ILM all within the same state. RDU, ILM and GSO even see mainline services!

The question that has kept me busy about that is - how common are intrastate flights outside of the Americas or Australia/China/Russia/India.
I guess my question essentially boils down to Europe: While it's a large and well-developed aviation market, countries are also very small and dense.
In fact, I can only think of one intra-state flight off the top of my head: LH's MUC-NUE service never leaves Bavarian airspace.

Are there any other flights that serve two airports within the same state (or whatever the local designation for the largest subnational political subdivision level is) in Europe or European-sized countries?
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LGAviation
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:19 pm

If we look at the UK as being split only into four constituent countries, then yes indeed you will find them in England (ie LHR-MAN) and Scotland. In Norway, you will also find intra-county flights due to the inaccessibility of some remote towns on the shoreline or in the far north. In Spain, you will find flights between the island communities (Binter Canarias is focussed on these).
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SCQ83
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:37 pm

lugie wrote:
In fact, I can only think of one intra-state flight off the top of my head: LH's MUC-NUE service never leaves Bavarian airspace.

Are there any other flights that serve two airports within the same state (or whatever the local designation for the largest subnational political subdivision level is) in Europe or European-sized countries?


LGAviation wrote:
If we look at the UK as being split only into four constituent countries, then yes indeed you will find them in England (ie LHR-MAN) and Scotland. In Norway, you will also find intra-county flights due to the inaccessibility of some remote towns on the shoreline or in the far north. In Spain, you will find flights between the island communities (Binter Canarias is focussed on these).


In Andalucía Air Nostrum flies Almería-Sevilla (an OSP route). That is an intra-regional route in Europe that does not involve an island.

Adding islands there are plenty of other routes.
 
Akiestar
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:03 pm

In the Philippines, the only province big enough for regular intra-provincial flights is Palawan. There is at least one flight connecting Coron (USU) in the north with the capital, Puerto Princesa, and PPS also has flights to Cuyo (CYU), San Vicente (SWA) and El Nido (ENI). I imagine though many of the people taking these flights are tourists.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:30 pm

lugie wrote:
Now I've lived in North Carolina since last August and one thing that always struck me as astonishing is the number of not only domestic, but within-state flights you can take here. NC is definitely not a small state but also far off the size of Cali, Texas or Alaska and still there are various routes served many times daily: AA flies from CLT to AVL, GSO, RDU, FAY, PGV, EWN, OAJ, ILM all within the same state. RDU, ILM and GSO even see mainline services!


Keep in mind that ground transportation in the USA (and that goes for many parts of the world) is a lot worse than it is in Europe. We have frequent and reliable high speed trains which almost don't exist in the USA. Where Europeans take the train, Americans take a plane instead. It's their only option. A lot of these intra-state flights could easily be replaced by train connections if only the tracks were layed, but they're not. In that, Europe is far ahead of America.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:48 pm

lugie wrote:
Are there any other flights that serve two airports within the same state (or whatever the local designation for the largest subnational political subdivision level is) in Europe or European-sized countries?


There are in Sweden, how many depends on how you define "state" as Sweden is not a federal state. But LLA-PJA is entirely within Norrbotten. To the west is Lapland, Sweden's largest province (about the size of Portugal) but too sparsely populated (less than 100.000) to have internal flights, there are however 5 airports with scheduled flights in Lapland.
 
bennator
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:51 am

In Japan, NH runs a flight from HND to HAC (Hachijojima), which is within the same city (if you consider Tokyo Metropolis a city). Flight has a block time of 55 minutes.
 
alo2yyz
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:56 am

lugie wrote:
still there are various routes served many times daily: AA flies from CLT to AVL, GSO, RDU, FAY, PGV, EWN, OAJ, ILM all within the same state. RDU, ILM and GSO even see mainline services


Yes, but how much O&D traffic is there between CLT and any of those cities? CLT is fortress hub.

Don't conflate availability of flights with a high amount of O&D traffic. AA has structured their network to fly people YYZ-CLT-AVL or AVL-CLT-SEA etc etc etc. Sure, there are probably some people who choose (for reasons I cannot possibly fathom) to fly CLT-AVL rather than drive, but unless you've got the PDEW or O&D statistics to back it up, I hardly think there is a lot of 'intra-state' flying going on in NC (or anywhere else east of the Mississippi aside from possible South Florida--Panhandle and Upstate--NYC)
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:12 am

Of the 14 states that make up Malaysia, only the two Borneo states of Sabah & Sarawak are big enough to have intrastate flights, served by MH (and regional subsidiary MASwings) and AK. I don't believe OD flies intrastate flights.

The other 12 states are not as large, so are within driving distance of each other.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:20 am

Intra-state air travel is very common in Australia, but keep in mind that Victoria (the smallest mainland state) is larger than Great Britain; Queensland is larger than Spain, France, Germany and Great Britain combined; and Western Australia is larger than Texas, California, Alaska, New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, Oklahoma, Alabama and Utah combined.

Vast distances and poor (non-existent) rail outside of major urban areas means that either flying or (very, very) long road-trips are the only way to get around.
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bennett123
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:10 am

I worked in Edinburgh in 2015 and flew from several airports depending on availability, (mostly BRS with U2).

Just checked Expedia for travel up on 28 April and back on 3 May.

Flying via BRS including Train and Bus to BRS and tram to Princes Street leave Swindon BR at 18.12 arrive Princes Street 23.19. Then leave Princes Street by 17.30 arrive back at Swindon BR at 22.28 at a cost of £138.10

Going by BR. Leaving Swindon at 16.02 arrive at Edinburgh Waverley at 22.27. Leaving Edinburgh Waverley at 17.31 arrive back at Swindon BR at 00.45. Journey each way changing at London Paddington , down the Underground to Kings Cross to catch another train. Cost of trip £188.80

Several good reasons to fly.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:34 am

Increasingly more common in Denmark. There haven't been enough investments in the railways over the past 20 years, so services are getting slower and less reliable. Normally services from Copenhagen to Aarhus would take 3:30, but at the moment they take 4:30. This easter trains will stop running to Copenhagen entirely. This mess has spawned a successful seaplane service between Aarhus and Copenhagen, while domestic flights are more popular than ever. The seaplane takes 40 minutes from city center to city center, while a commercial flight on SAS probably won't take you more than 2:00 - 2:30, ground transport and waiting time included.
 
dstc47
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:36 am

Even though Ireland is a relatively small island, there were until relatively recently a fair number of internal flights.

Three main reasons,

1. the Shannon stopover sustained flights SNN/DUB/SNN, not very convenient as these were legs of transatlantic flights.
2. Services from Cork to Dublin, partly for day business traffic partly for connection to EI other routes not served from ORK. There was even competition on Dublin - Cork for a time. No services now.

3. A number of services where road and rail links were weak, Dublin/Sligo is long gone but services to Kerry and Donegal remain and are supported by public funds. There are also services to the Aran Islands by BN Islanders from near Galway.
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:01 pm

In the western Indian state of Maharashtra (of which Mumbai is the capital), there are multiple daily flights by multiple airlines between Mumbai (BOM) and cities like Nagpur, Aurangabad, Nasik and even Pune....mostly 737/A320s, but also ATRs....all these cities are connected to Mumbai by road and rail and most of them are under 12 hours driving distance from Mumbai..….
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Flights inside Brazilian states are very common
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:33 pm

PPVLC wrote:
Flights inside Brazilian states are very common


Indeed...routes like CNF-UDI/UBA, CGH-SJP/RAO; not to mention those state in the west (Amazonas, Mato Grosso (inc. MG do Sul)), etc.

As for US - most of the intrastate flying are from airline hubs anyway. Just for example, while there are tons of intra-state flight from CLT, its next door neighbor, TN, have one intra-state flight (BNA-MEM), and that's on a Cessna (BNA-MEM at 200mi is longer than routes like CLT-RDU). But further south DL has ATL-AGS/CSG/SAV/ABY/VLD/BQK.

But yes, ultimately a lot of shorter 150-200mi intrastate flights would not exist if US has half-decent rail infrastructure.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:56 pm

Australia is a large continent with only 6 states, plus two Territories. Only the Australian Capital Territory is small enough not to require intrastate flights. Generally, major centres that are over two hours by road from the state capital have flights to the capital.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:51 am

In South Africa the only intra-provincial route now is Cape Town (CPT)-George (GRJ), served by Airlink 4 to 5 daily (mix E190/AR8/E140/E135).
Up till recently there were 2 other routes, PLZ-ELS was with J-41, but Airlink suspended this at the end of 2018, then there were also CPT-Plettenberg Bay with CemAir (B1900D), until CemAir was grounded Dec'18.
 
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dangerhere
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:05 am

OP don't forget Niedersachsen, there are plenty of flights between Norden and the Friesen islands like Juist. A former colleague did one for a meeting about a year ago, 3 hour delay due to fog for 5 minutes in the air. Followed by a 40 minute horse and cart ride since there are no motorized vehicles on the island :lol:

https://www.inselflieger.de


Likewise, in Ireland, Inverin to the Aran Islands must be the only inter-county (Galway) flight in Ireland I'm fairly sure.
 
IADCA
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:15 pm

JAL has a regional subsidiary that operates flights entirely within Hokkaido prefecture (e.g., OKD-HKD).
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:29 pm

IADCA wrote:
JAL has a regional subsidiary that operates flights entirely within Hokkaido prefecture (e.g., OKD-HKD).


Hokkaido Air System (HAC) to be exact.

Actually, while we're talking about regional subsidiary, there's Japan Air Commuter (JAC) which fly a lot of "outer island" routes in Kagoshima prefecture (although not their only routes) i.e. KOJ-ASJ/TNE/KUM (among others). They also have another intra-prefecture route in IZO-OKI in Shimane Prefecture. Further south, Ryukyu Air Commuter (RAC) fly to all those small islands in the Ryukyu chain (including up to the northern part that's under Kagoshima prefecture) from OKA (or ISG/MMY). There are also many flights every day on OKA-ISG (Ishigaki) and OKA-MMY (Miyakojima) (and a few between ISG and MMY) on JTA (Japan Transocean Air, which is yet another JAL subsidiary) and ANA, among other.

Further north in Nagasaki there's Oriental Air Bridge (which codeshare with ANA) flying from NGS to IKI (Iki), TSJ (Tsushima), and FUJ (Fukue in the Goto Islands), alongside FUK-FUJ (Which is not a intra-prefecture route as Goto is in Nagasaki prefecture)..
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Intra-state flights in Europe (and other parts of the world)

Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:33 am

If I remember correctly, some Indonesian airlines fly intra-Papua flights eg. SOQ-DJJ.

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