A3801000
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Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:36 pm

Just seen this, is this well known in the USA? I did not know that's already been done:

Image

Here it is in full:

https://twitter.com/mackenzief/status/1 ... 8673998848

and here: 'JetBlue Experiments With Using Your Face As A Boarding Pass'

Source: https://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2017/06 ... tion-pilot
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 6697
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:39 pm

Ive seen facial recognition used before on international outbounds. I thought it was a CBP thing especially since I was flying UA and they don't do anything like that that im aware of.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12218
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:51 pm

....this at the same time that more and more reports arise that facial recognition AI has an increasingly lower accuracy rate the darker a person's skin gets; to the point where some don't even recognize a dark-skinned individual as human(oid). They also have a more difficult time recognizing females versus males.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/tech ... gence.html

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/287 ... nned-faces

https://www.wired.com/story/photo-algor ... t-so-much/



...seems lawsuits are just a matter of time.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MalevTU134
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:02 pm

COPA uses it at PTY. I was face recognized there by them in February when boarding.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:08 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
....this at the same time that more and more reports arise that facial recognition AI has an increasingly lower accuracy rate the darker a person's skin gets; to the point where some don't even recognize a dark-skinned individual as human(oid). They also have a more difficult time recognizing females versus males.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/tech ... gence.html

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/287 ... nned-faces

https://www.wired.com/story/photo-algor ... t-so-much/



...seems lawsuits are just a matter of time.


So is the AI racist and sexist?
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12218
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:16 pm

impilot wrote:
So is the AI racist and sexist?

Is your comment imbecilic? Well, there's at least one "yes" among the three.

But to make the consequences as relatable as possible: if the (1) discovered (2) disparity is (3) knowingly allowed to be instituted/used, and it (4) causes a type of (5) harm, financial or otherwise.... then be prepared for lawsuits to abound; at least in the USA, since this is a thread concerning B6.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
impilot
Posts: 232
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:46 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
impilot wrote:
So is the AI racist and sexist?

Is your comment imbecilic? Well, there's at least one "yes" among the three.

But to make the consequences as relatable as possible: if the (1) discovered (2) disparity is (3) knowingly allowed to be instituted/used, and it (4) causes a type of (5) harm, financial or otherwise.... then be prepared for lawsuits to abound; at least in the USA, since this is a thread concerning B6.

Lol ok let me get this straight. A racist and sexist *optional* biometric boarding system is causing harm to minority females and therefore lawsuits will abound. Got it.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:57 pm

impilot wrote:
Lol ok let me get this straight. A racist and sexist *optional* biometric boarding system is causing harm to minority females and therefore lawsuits will abound. Got it.

Hmm, I get that the legal/financial consequences surrounding the concept of disparate impact in a non-employment situation, may not be at the forefront of people's minds when first reading this... especially among the slower of us.

But there's help.

Start with this and work your way towards something resembling cogency:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... ation.html

***********************
For the rest, and in short summary:
If companies are knowingly opting for biometrics with such flaws, and those flaws contribute to consistently (not necessarily common) disparate results which cause a harm (say, repeatedly causing women to miss a flight and suffer financial/temporal consequences therefore), then you bet your sweet behinds that (viable) lawsuits WILL abound.

That's not to say that this is the course we're headed, especially as it's new technology with equally accessible walk-arounds at this time. But it's definitely something to look out for due to repetitive similar occurrences, as the articles above point out.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 1333
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:11 am

impilot wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
....this at the same time that more and more reports arise that facial recognition AI has an increasingly lower accuracy rate the darker a person's skin gets; to the point where some don't even recognize a dark-skinned individual as human(oid). They also have a more difficult time recognizing females versus males.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/tech ... gence.html

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/287 ... nned-faces

https://www.wired.com/story/photo-algor ... t-so-much/



...seems lawsuits are just a matter of time.


So is the AI racist and sexist?


It could be that the database of images used to train the AI had more white men than black women. That really happens, and you can read about it with an easy google search. This happens lots of time and in lots of contexts, and is annoying for the people who get worse service. Why make fun of it?
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 1333
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:12 am

A3801000 wrote:
Just seen this, is this well known in the USA? I did not know that's already been done:

Image

Here it is in full:

https://twitter.com/mackenzief/status/1 ... 8673998848

and here: 'JetBlue Experiments With Using Your Face As A Boarding Pass'

Source: https://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2017/06 ... tion-pilot


Question: How did they get a picture of you to match with? I don't really want Jetblue having my picture!
 
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UPlog
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:59 am

kitplane01 wrote:

Question: How did they get a picture of you to match with? I don't really want Jetblue having my picture!


From the DHS using the following sources:

1) Federal identity document
2) State identity document
3) Previous border entry/exit images
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 1333
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:02 am

UPlog wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

Question: How did they get a picture of you to match with? I don't really want Jetblue having my picture!


From the DHS using the following sources:

1) Federal identity document
2) State identity document
3) Previous border entry/exit images


The DHS gives my picture to corporations? It's surprising that within the law and within regulations.
 
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janders
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:31 pm

Indeed DHS/CBP databases are used for these systems.

I would not look at it as the government giving a private company anything, instead, the company is participating in DHS programs.

There has been a multi-decade project in work that requires biometric verification of passengers per Congressional mandate and also Executive Orders.
Matter of fact, DHS only couple weeks ago announced they expect to screen 97% of travellers using biometrics by 2023.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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LTU932
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Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:23 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
COPA uses it at PTY. I was face recognized there by them in February when boarding.
I'm guessing that they use the database from Panamanian immigration for it? Because last time I was in PTY, you do get your picture taken in front of the immigration officer on entry (not on passport control during exit IIRC), while CM does not take any pictures of you. So, unless something changed since April 2018, I can only think that they're using the pictures taken by you by Panamanian immigration for this purpose.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2077
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:39 pm

LTU932 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
COPA uses it at PTY. I was face recognized there by them in February when boarding.
I'm guessing that they use the database from Panamanian immigration for it? Because last time I was in PTY, you do get your picture taken in front of the immigration officer on entry (not on passport control during exit IIRC), while CM does not take any pictures of you. So, unless something changed since April 2018, I can only think that they're using the pictures taken by you by Panamanian immigration for this purpose.

Beats me. I wasn't going through immigration. Just transiting, as do 80% or so of their pax....
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:58 pm

DL uses this technology at ATL and DTW already. In DTW, they are at all of the international gates.

For those questioning this process, I don't necessarily understand the concern with respect to the "match" photo. For international flights, you typically need a passport. When you apply for a passport, you voluntarily submit a photo. For me, it's entirely logical for DHS to use the photo you voluntarily gave them. Now, I am not 100% certain that the passport photo is the photo they use, but even if it is a driver's license, you voluntarily let the DMV take your photo as well. It would be interesting to see the disclaimers on photos taken by government agencies.
 
IADFCO
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: JetBlue uses facial recognition as boarding pass

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:58 am

However, now JetBlue (or whoever) has your picture matched with your name (so this improves the reliability of the training algorithm, and also updates it if you don't travel frequently). They can go and sell this information to Google, Facebook, Amazon, whomever, can't they? Or maybe the other way around, they can buy the info from them. And your health insurance company might get interested, or your employer. And so on and so on.

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