x1234
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How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:15 pm

Cathay Dragon/Cathay Pacific flies to every destination in South and Southeast Asia except Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei (BWN). Considering the Muslim country is in the US Visa Waiver Program (which is a surprise in itself), any news on CX/KA starting BWN!?
 
evanb
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:27 pm

x1234 wrote:
Cathay Dragon/Cathay Pacific flies to every destination in South and Southeast Asia except Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei (BWN). Considering the Muslim country is in the US Visa Waiver Program (which is a surprise in itself), any news on CX/KA starting BWN!?


Because it's a tiny country and market with a total population of 400,000. The only two legacy carriers that fly there are Malaysian and Singapore, but they have unique geographic, historic and cultural ties to Brunei.

So I guess the reason we don't see CX/KA is the same reason we don't see AI, BR, CA, CI, EK, EY, GA, HU, JL, KE, MU, NH, NZ, OZ, PR, QF, QR, SV,TG, TK, TG and VN.
 
Pbb152
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:33 pm

Why doesn’t Cathay serve Tupelo, Mississippi? I think there is a Muslim there and a few people have Visa credit cards.
 
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WilhelmFink
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:49 pm

x1234 wrote:
Cathay Dragon/Cathay Pacific flies to every destination in South and Southeast Asia except Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei (BWN). Considering the Muslim country is in the US Visa Waiver Program (which is a surprise in itself), any news on CX/KA starting BWN!?


With Royal Brunei (codeshared with Hong Kong Airlines) already serving this route I think there is simply no more demand as it is very small market.

If I'm not mistaken, Cathay Dragon (then called Dragonair) had a codeshare agreement with Royal Brunei Airlines before Hong Kong Airlines did.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Adding on - the outbound demand from HK (PRD in general) to Brunei is not exactly big, either. A few businesspeople here, a few tourists there, but otherwise, it's just not that big of a market where BI (Royal Brunei) alone doesn't provide enough capacity.
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x1234
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:26 pm

I find it interesting that they also don't fly to Vientiane Laos (VTE).
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:31 pm

x1234 wrote:
I find it interesting that they also don't fly to Vientiane Laos (VTE).


And why should they? It's a tiny market with very little outbound demand from HK (PRD in general). Not a lot of economic tie b/t HK and Laos, either. Investment are mostly from mainland (and even there it's not that big), and neighboring Vietnam and Thailand (Hence the relative large amount of flights from BKK/DMK to VTE), and some South Korean investments here and there (Hence there are flights to ICN and PUS).

Seriously, there are more people in Hong Kong alone than the whole country of Laos.
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XAM2175
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:05 pm

x1234 wrote:
I find it interesting that they also don't fly to Vientiane Laos (VTE).


Is this thread going to become the thread where you list one-by-one all the small Asian ports not served by CX and/or KA?
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:50 pm

More Sultan of Brunei Anti-LGBT fallout?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:53 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
More Sultan of Brunei Anti-LGBT fallout?


As if that many people really cares (at least over in HK)? All the keyboard warriors aside, that is.

XAM2175 wrote:
Is this thread going to become the thread where you list one-by-one all the small Asian ports not served by CX and/or KA?


At least there are not that many left from the top of my head. I can think of MDL (Served by UO previously, dropped in a month for a reason), LPQ (Even smaller than VTE), and KCH (Not even AK attempt this...).
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eta unknown
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:04 pm

I don't understand how Brunei and the US visa waiver program have any connection to a HKG based airline (not) flying to a country with under 500k population.
 
STLflyer
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:17 pm

It’s the same answer as every other “Why doesn’t Airline ABC fly to XYZ?” thread - because people who get paid a lot more money than the armchair route planners at a.net have determined that flying to XYZ wouldn’t be profitable.
 
gia777
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:22 pm

if Cathay operates Airbus 320, I bet cathay will fly to Brunei.
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eamondzhang
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:34 pm

gia777 wrote:
if Cathay operates Airbus 320, I bet cathay will fly to Brunei.

Cathay Dragon does operate A320s and yet they choose not to serve Burnei.

Michael
 
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:38 pm

Because it’s easy for Bruneians to connect in SIN or KUL to get to HKG. So demand for non-stop BWN-HKG services are non-existent.

As an aside, I’m annoyed hat Brunei gets VWP while Malaysia doesn’t. You know how much of a pain in the ass to get a bloody US visa? The Malaysia-US traffic, even with restrictions such as no VWP is still larger than Brunei’s.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:13 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Because it’s easy for Bruneians to connect in SIN or KUL to get to HKG. So demand for non-stop BWN-HKG services are non-existent.

As an aside, I’m annoyed hat Brunei gets VWP while Malaysia doesn’t. You know how much of a pain in the ass to get a bloody US visa? The Malaysia-US traffic, even with restrictions such as no VWP is still larger than Brunei’s.


Bruneians does not even have to connect anywhere to fly to HK. BI (Royal Brunei) fly that route non-stop daily, with a few flights a week on 787 also. BI codeshares with HX and interline with CX, so beyond connection at HKG is not a problem at all.

As for Brunei getting VWP - being a really rich country with a tiny population helps. :white:
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MalevTU134
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:17 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Because it’s easy for Bruneians to connect in SIN or KUL to get to HKG. So demand for non-stop BWN-HKG services are non-existent.

As an aside, I’m annoyed hat Brunei gets VWP while Malaysia doesn’t. You know how much of a pain in the ass to get a bloody US visa? The Malaysia-US traffic, even with restrictions such as no VWP is still larger than Brunei’s.


Bruneians does not even have to connect anywhere to fly to HK. BI (Royal Brunei) fly that route non-stop daily, with a few flights a week on 787 also.

As for Brunei getting VWP - being a really rich country with a tiny population helps. :white:

...and having a low rate of overstayers of their visa helps even more... Which is of course correlated with being a rich country...
 
juliuswong
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:11 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Because it’s easy for Bruneians to connect in SIN or KUL to get to HKG. So demand for non-stop BWN-HKG services are non-existent.

As an aside, I’m annoyed hat Brunei gets VWP while Malaysia doesn’t. You know how much of a pain in the ass to get a bloody US visa? The Malaysia-US traffic, even with restrictions such as no VWP is still larger than Brunei’s.


Bruneians does not even have to connect anywhere to fly to HK. BI (Royal Brunei) fly that route non-stop daily, with a few flights a week on 787 also.

As for Brunei getting VWP - being a really rich country with a tiny population helps. :white:

...and having a low rate of overstayers of their visa helps even more... Which is of course correlated with being a rich country...

Also, if I am not mistaken, those 9/11 terrorists actually transited in Malaysia before eventually ended up in the US to carry out their act. Malaysia is very liberal with their immigration policies. They literally welcome everyone and anyone with visa on arrival, except Israel for obvious reason. Those requires pre-arrival visa can also easily attained at Malaysia Embassy or High Commission.

In addition, there have been few Islamic fanatic inclined terrorist group in Malaysia. Hence Malaysia has not been granted VWP. Canada also rescinded the privilege for Malaysians post 9/11.

Back to the topic. CX used to fly to Brunei back in 50s/60s when they first started up as an triangular route from BKI. It was later on passed to KA as code share flight with BI in mid 90s. BWN never seen any KA aircraft to date, only BI carried the pax from HK to BWN vv. In 2015, BI ended their long working relationship with CX/KA and also quit Asia Miles. The following year, they teamed up with Hong Kong Airlines.
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:07 am

STLflyer wrote:
It’s the same answer as every other “Why doesn’t Airline ABC fly to XYZ?” thread - because people who get paid a lot more money than the armchair route planners at a.net have determined that flying to XYZ wouldn’t be profitable.

This kind of threads should have their own forum. :mrgreen:
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:11 am

afterburner wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
It’s the same answer as every other “Why doesn’t Airline ABC fly to XYZ?” thread - because people who get paid a lot more money than the armchair route planners at a.net have determined that flying to XYZ wouldn’t be profitable.

This kind of threads should have their own forum. :mrgreen:


Along with "Why does (so and so airlines) not buy (insert airplane type here, usually 787 :duck: )" and of course, the gajillion threads on whether DL would start a focus city at AUS :duck: :duck:

EDIT:
juliuswong wrote:
Back to the topic. CX used to fly to Brunei back in 50s/60s when they first started up as an triangular route from BKI. It was later on passed to KA as code share flight with BI in mid 90s. BWN never seen any KA aircraft to date, only BI carried the pax from HK to BWN vv. In 2015, BI ended their long working relationship with CX/KA and also quit Asia Miles. The following year, they teamed up with Hong Kong Airlines.


This, to me, is one of the better answer as to why CX/KA doesn't fly to BWN. For years, CX/KA simply doesn't have to as they have a very good relationship with BI. Even now, BI dominate that route anyway, and there's not much reason for KA to jump in and lose money.
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hz747300
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:13 am

Why doesn't Cathay Dragon fly to Darwin, Australia? I saw some people when I was there in the downtown, and I think they would like a HK flight. But I didn't ask them.
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:53 am

hz747300 wrote:
Why doesn't Cathay Dragon fly to Darwin, Australia? I saw some people when I was there in the downtown, and I think they would like a HK flight. But I didn't ask them.

I would say same reason as BWN where local population is just too small to support the service.
Last edited by juliuswong on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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juliuswong
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:15 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
This, to me, is one of the better answer as to why CX/KA doesn't fly to BWN. For years, CX/KA simply doesn't have to as they have a very good relationship with BI. Even now, BI dominate that route anyway, and there's not much reason for KA to jump in and lose money.

Yes, HKG is BI's first few destinations when they are established back in 1974, along with SIN and BKI. They have established their branding well since then till now. It is one of those routes where one, but not two, player will suffice the market supply and demand. If CX/KA is going to jump in, it will lead to bloodbath. HKG is frequently upgraded with 787 during peak season. CX/KA is better off deploying their fleet elsewhere where they can earn more.
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Obzerva
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 am

juliuswong wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Why doesn't Cathay Dragon fly to Darwin, Australia? I saw some people when I was there in the downtown, and I think they would like a HK flight. But I didn't ask them.

I would say same reason as BWN where local population is just too small to support the service.


Agree.
MH couldn't make DRW work, and the current SZX-DRW flight hasn't been doing that well apparently.

I also think I'm remember reading somewhere a while ago that Cathay didn't want to introduce another brand to Australia, hence CNS remaining CX and not being converted to KA.
It was something along the lines of KA remaining Asian focused.
 
blandy62
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:36 pm

BI already has a daily flight, sometimes on a 787. I don't think there is a market for more. Besides some Brunei people coming to HK or chine and may be sone oil workers going to Brunei, I don't thing many passenger fly that route point to point. Cargo I am sure BI gets it covered when they send the 787
 
hz747300
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:19 am

blandy62 wrote:
BI already has a daily flight, sometimes on a 787. I don't think there is a market for more. Besides some Brunei people coming to HK or chine and may be sone oil workers going to Brunei, I don't thing many passenger fly that route point to point. Cargo I am sure BI gets it covered when they send the 787


I have a few Malaysian Chinese friends from this part of Malaysia, that use the BI flight to get home as it's closer than any of the Malaysian destinations.
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Re: How come Cathay Dragon doesn't fly to Bandar Seri Begawan Brunei?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:31 am

Obzerva wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Why doesn't Cathay Dragon fly to Darwin, Australia? I saw some people when I was there in the downtown, and I think they would like a HK flight. But I didn't ask them.

I would say same reason as BWN where local population is just too small to support the service.


Agree.
MH couldn't make DRW work, and the current SZX-DRW flight hasn't been doing that well apparently.

I also think I'm remember reading somewhere a while ago that Cathay didn't want to introduce another brand to Australia, hence CNS remaining CX and not being converted to KA.
It was something along the lines of KA remaining Asian focused.

DRW was BI's first Oz destination too, established back in 1983. Then in 1994, it was further extended to BNE. In 1997, BNE was upgraded to non-stop flight (every Friday), and DRW-BNE service was kept (every Wednesday and Sunday) until suspension of both routes.
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