mcg
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:18 am

So when is a flight officially considered arrived?, is it when the door opens; when the parking brake is set?, when the engines are turned off?, some other benchmark? More specifically, when is a flight that arrives at 'bus gate' considered arrived? The moment when the bus arrives at the terminal can often be a long time after the plane stops moving at it's parking place.
 
crj900lr
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:44 am

Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:21 am

When the arrival time shows, That's when it arrived.
 
winginit
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:24 am

From what I understand it's when you 'block in', which is when the parking brake is is put on and blocks are put on each side of the aircraft's tires and the pilot is thus clear to turn off the seat belt sign.

Said differently, it's the 'ding!'
Last edited by winginit on Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:30 am

The times are typically reported via ACARS, and that is based on parking brake. In reality, it's got some inherent logic built in (weight-on-wheels, doors closed), but for all intents and purposes, it's when we release or set the parking brake.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
jetmatt777
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:35 am

Parking Brake on and a door open. Otherwise if the pilots set the parking brake while waiting to cross a runway it would count as arrived.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
mcg
Topic Author
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:39 am

So for a 'bus gate' arrival (at FRA) the time it takes for all the passengers to get off the plane and for the bus to proceed to the terminal is after the flight has arrived, am I correct? The personal curiousity here is that I am connect at FRA and the inbound flight will likely park at a remote stand, thus I'm interested in knowing just how tight my 1:25 connection will be.
 
26point2
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:12 am

One of my biggest annoyances and one that seems to be happening with more frequency is when we “arrive” on time but the gate is occupied. By the time the door is open we are late. Please tell me the airline doesn’t get credit for an on-time arrival while the plane waits for a place to park.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:15 am

mcg wrote:
So for a 'bus gate' arrival (at FRA) the time it takes for all the passengers to get off the plane and for the bus to proceed to the terminal is after the flight has arrived, am I correct? The personal curiousity here is that I am connect at FRA and the inbound flight will likely park at a remote stand, thus I'm interested in knowing just how tight my 1:25 connection will be.


Yes. It's all after you arrive.

1:25 is tight, but assuming no delays they should get you there.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
bigb
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:33 am

Parking brake is set and doors open the flight is considered blocked in ie arrived. Usually for busy hubs, airlines will always had cushions to the flight block time to account for ground, taxi delays. I found this to be common In CLT.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:45 am

26point2 wrote:
One of my biggest annoyances and one that seems to be happening with more frequency is when we “arrive” on time but the gate is occupied. By the time the door is open we are late. Please tell me the airline doesn’t get credit for an on-time arrival while the plane waits for a place to park.


They don’t. The time the aircraft touches down doesn’t matter when it comes to on-time performance, it’s all about “blocks on” time.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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fr8mech
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:08 am

SRQKEF wrote:
They don’t. The time the aircraft touches down doesn’t matter when it comes to on-time performance, it’s all about “blocks on” time.


Point of order..."block on" is the landing time, "block in" is the arrival time.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
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Woodreau
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:01 am

It depends on the operator.

At my airline, if the parking brake is set when the first door (passenger or cargo) is opened, the block in time that is used to determine arrival is the time the parking brake is set. If the parking brake is released when the first door is opened, the block in time is the time the first door is opened.

As an example, the airplane taxies into the gate, stops, parking brake is set at 1000. Seat belt sign is turned off, but there is no gate agent. The cargo door is opened at 10:03, the parking brake is still set. 15 minutes later at 10:15, the gate agent arrives, brings the jet bridge over, the passenger door is opened at 10:20. The block in time reported by ACARS is 10:00 because the cargo door was opened at 10:03 with the parking brake set at 10:00.

If the plane blocks in, parking brake is set at 10:00. Seat belt sign is turned off. Chocks are installed, the pilot releases the parking brake. A few minutes later, the Cargo door opened at 10:03. Passenger door opened at 10:04, the block in time reported by ACARS is 10:03.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
MGC1191
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:48 am

After Departure.
 
Andy33
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:52 am

mcg wrote:
So when is a flight officially considered arrived?, is it when the door opens; when the parking brake is set?, when the engines are turned off?, some other benchmark? More specifically, when is a flight that arrives at 'bus gate' considered arrived? The moment when the bus arrives at the terminal can often be a long time after the plane stops moving at it's parking place.


All depends what you're using the information for. in the EU/EEA there is a legal definition of "arrival" for the purpose of assessing if passengers are eligible for delay compensation, and that is passenger doors open. How long it takes to get from the plane door to anywhere else in the airport isn't considered relevant. I can certainly point to airports where the time taken to walk from the most remote gate on the longest pier is much greater than that to disembark onto a bus and take the bus journey, especially as the bus will normally drop you at a central point in the terminal close to where you need to be to go landside or to connect.

Since the passenger doors aren't supposed to be opened until the plane is parked/chocked, the engines are switched off, and the jetbridge or stairs are in place, this pretty much covers things.

If you are wheelchair-bound, the time you reach the terminal building will be later than for other passengers whether jetbridges, walk to terminal, or busgates are in use, because they don't start moving you until the rush of other passengers has abated. As a result, any measure other than "doors open" would be meaningless for a proportion of passengers


.
 
FlyboyOz
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:08 am

Last time, I checked the time after landing and then we were waiting for long time at the taxiway because another plane was still at our gate. I found out on the screen that the plane landed "ON TIME" but we were still inside the plane for more than 20 minutes!! Therefore, I think the airline/airport publish the arrival time after the plane touch down on the runway not at the gate.

In the Hong Kong airport, you can see two arrival times on the screen - "landed" time and "at the gate" time.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
ChrisKen
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:21 pm

It entirely depends on 'whose' arrival time you are talking about:

ATC, Touchdown
Crew/Operators, Parking Brake Set/Engine shutdown
Pax, Door open, Disemarkation begins.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: When is "Arrival"

Wed May 01, 2019 3:06 pm

I remember a specific case in which the flight crew announced on the speaker that we landed 10 minutes ahead of schedule, immediately after landing, which was great news, but then it took 20 minutes to get to a the gate. My conclusion is, the flight is 10min late. So, who's right in this situation?

I know 10 min is nothing, but in European Union, a flight delayed for 2 hours and 5 mins gets you a compensation. A delay of 1 hour and 55 mins doesn't.
 
UALFAson
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Wed May 01, 2019 10:09 pm

dfpinto wrote:
I remember a specific case in which the flight crew announced on the speaker that we landed 10 minutes ahead of schedule, immediately after landing, which was great news, but then it took 20 minutes to get to a the gate. My conclusion is, the flight is 10min late. So, who's right in this situation?


I would imagine this was a newbie flight attendant, as more experienced folks know the time you land doesn't make any difference, it's when you get to the parking space (be it gate or pad). It's all about setting expectations. Any good will that was obtained from the flight touching down early will be lost during that 20-minute taxi and wait for a gate. Recently, the only announcements I have heard about being early have come from the cockpit after we have actually arrived the gate.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
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Moose135
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Re: When is "Arrival"

Wed May 01, 2019 10:34 pm

mcg wrote:
So when is a flight officially considered arrived?

When the last parts stop bouncing...
:rotfl:
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!

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