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dik909
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What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:12 am

At this point we're all expecting the 797 to be an NMA.

But I wonder, what is Boeing most likely to do beyond that ? (other than refining their existing production lines)

Will they introduce a smaller model to seek out market shares currently dominated by smaller aircraft such as Embraer, or the A220 ?

Or, is it possible that they might learn from and pick up where the A380 failed and aim for another jumbo ?

Perhaps the most important question to be asked, though, is: What name/number comes after 797 ? :lol:
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:18 am

767, 777, 787, 797, 807, 817, 827, etc.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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Channex757
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:21 am

Boeing Commercial uses the 7-7 format so why change a formula that works?

7A7,7B7,7C7 etc.
 
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BlueSky1976
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:30 am

Channex757 wrote:
Boeing Commercial uses the 7-7 format so why change a formula that works?

7A7,7B7,7C7 etc.


Nope.
Boeing Commercial uses XX7 format, beginning with model 207. Therefore, 8x7 after 797 makes the most sense.
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Channex757
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:34 am

BlueSky1976 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Boeing Commercial uses the 7-7 format so why change a formula that works?

7A7,7B7,7C7 etc.


Nope.
Boeing Commercial uses XX7 format, beginning with model 207. Therefore, 8x7 after 797 makes the most sense.

One more time with feeling...

They use the 7-7 format for Boeing Commercial jet aircraft. So why change a formula that works?

7A7, 7B7, all the way to 7Z7 before you need bother yourself with this question again. Some might get passed over though.
 
Razza74
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 am

why not 7107, 7117, 7127, 7137 etc

Razza74
Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
 
Ziyulu
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 am

808, 818, 828, etc.
 
ericm2031
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:54 am

Maybe figure out how to get a nextgen E175 within scope, more composites I’m guessing is the only way
 
AirwayBill
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 am

Why would it have to be such combinations?

I miss the days when each airliner had a true, distinct name used for all purposes, and not just a genereric denomination made of letters and numbers instead.

Then names of Caravelle, Concorde, Comet, Tristar (although officially L1011), etc all sounded much more distinctive and memorable than today's "777-9XXX A350-1000ULR 737MAX9 A321neoULRNX", and added a glamour vibe to air travel. Nicknaming the 787 'Dreamliner' was a good initiative, but it is what it is: nothing more than a nickname.
 
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keesje
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:02 am

The Boeing 7320 Streamliner. A stable narrow body, that can handle big geared fans & containers. :expressionless:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Bricktop
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:07 am

797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.
 
smallmj
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:08 am

Bankruptcy ;)
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:10 am

BlueSky1976 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Boeing Commercial uses the 7-7 format so why change a formula that works?

7A7,7B7,7C7 etc.


Nope.
Boeing Commercial uses XX7 format, beginning with model 207. Therefore, 8x7 after 797 makes the most sense.


With the exception of the 720....
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Babyshark
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:11 am

keesje wrote:
The Boeing 7320 Streamliner. A stable narrow body, that can handle big geared fans & containers. :expressionless:


It's like a 737 meets 727 meets 720.

Turn Boeing into Cessna and start creating Frankenstein jets.
 
Babyshark
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:11 am

Hello Dash 80
 
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dik909
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:12 am

Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.


Now that's a theory worth unpacking !! :o

I'm skeptical of whether the government would let Boeing fail. I can imagine another "bailout" which the taxpayers will pay for..
 
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scbriml
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:12 am

AirwayBill wrote:
Then names of Caravelle, Concorde, Comet, Tristar (although officially L1011), etc all sounded much more distinctive and memorable than today's "777-9XXX A350-1000ULR 737MAX9 A321neoULRNX", and added a glamour vibe to air travel. Nicknaming the 787 'Dreamliner' was a good initiative, but it is what it is: nothing more than a nickname.


Those 'glamorous' names you've listed also had proper type designations:

Caravelle - Sud Aviation SE 210
Comet - De Haviland DH 106
Trident - Hawker Siddeley HS.121

Concorde might be the only type I can think of quickly that didn't have a type designation. Cue 25 responses listing others in 5...4...3... :lol:
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N776AU
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 am

My money is on 808, etc because of how a certain part of the world falsely believes 8 is a lucky number.
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BlueberryWheats
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:19 am

scbriml wrote:
Concorde might be the only type I can think of quickly that didn't have a type designation. Cue 25 responses listing others in 5...4...3... :lol:


I want to say Dassault Mercure? I may be wrong ;)
 
Bricktop
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:20 am

dik909 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.


Now that's a theory worth unpacking !! :o

I'm skeptical of whether the government would let Boeing fail. I can imagine another "bailout" which the taxpayers will pay for..

Not fail. They will be a military and space company, where the government subsidies that allow them to sell their commercial airplanes so cheap (after all why would anyone buy them otherwise?) can be used for share buybacks and executive bonuses. Winning!
 
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keesje
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:23 am

Babyshark wrote:
keesje wrote:
The Boeing 7320 Streamliner. A stable narrow body, that can handle big geared fans & containers. :expressionless:


It's like a 737 meets 727 meets 720.

Turn Boeing into Cessna and start creating Frankenstein jets.


Joking aside, I feel Boeing will go this direction. (Started this topic before the MAX crisis).
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1415977

If Boeing uses all viable technology to create a 165-250 seat narrow body:

:arrow: 10% more efficient overall than the latest A321NEO
:arrow: ready to incorporate geared 1:15 BPR engines after 2030
:arrow: designed from the outset to be produced / assembled easily in lower cost environments (India, Africa, Brasil)
:arrow: slightly beating industry (A320/C919) cabin & cargo standards

.. that would make Toulouse much more worried than the only self promoted MAX / NMA strategies of today.

but than again, listening has not been Boeing's strong point lately. It seems arm chair CEO's reside in Chicago these days.
Last edited by keesje on Mon May 13, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
1989worstyear
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:25 am

Bricktop wrote:
dik909 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.


Now that's a theory worth unpacking !! :o

I'm skeptical of whether the government would let Boeing fail. I can imagine another "bailout" which the taxpayers will pay for..

Not fail. They will be a military and space company, where the government subsidies that allow them to sell their commercial airplanes so cheap (after all why would anyone buy them otherwise?) can be used for share buybacks and executive bonuses. Winning!


Just out of curiosity - what would A offer to compete with the NSA?

I imagine the current A320-200 wing would be over 40 years old by that point (ten years from now).
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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dik909
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:34 am

Bricktop wrote:
dik909 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.


Now that's a theory worth unpacking !! :o

I'm skeptical of whether the government would let Boeing fail. I can imagine another "bailout" which the taxpayers will pay for..

Not fail. They will be a military and space company, where the government subsidies that allow them to sell their commercial airplanes so cheap (after all why would anyone buy them otherwise?) can be used for share buybacks and executive bonuses. Winning!


I see how you came to that conclusion, but I'm skeptical. General Motors couldn've done the same and continued their military/defence line, but D.C. didn't want to see them fail, so they offered the bailout. I guess I'm thinking in terms of Boeing airplanes in the air being an advertisement & testament to American manufacturing. If Boeing drops out of the commercial market, and we gradually stop seeing American-made airplanes in the air, this could be perceived as a sign of national weakness on some level.

I guess I'm thinking in psychological terms, but it's not entirely irrational, or is it ?
 
MR27122
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:46 am

Airbus 707, 717.....etc.
 
SEU
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:47 am

I think Boeing may scrap the NMA and go with a NSA. Smallest being a 737-8.5 size, largest being a "A322" size, with plenty of room under the wings for BIG engines.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:53 am

Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.

Here is someone who doesn’t understand basic economics
 
captainmeeerkat
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 am

797-100
797-200
797-300
797-400
...
797-800
797-900
797-800newMAX
797-900newMAX

That should see them through the next 40 years..
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
anshabhi
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 11:58 am

I believe Boeing will go back to learn something from Boeing 377 Stratocruiser days - when it developed a great a/c with low fuel consumption.

I put my money on a luxury airliner with fares cheaper than current LCCs. It might take 10 hours or more to do JFK-LHR though
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 12:10 pm

After the 797 i think they obviously will work with Embraer and try to “perfect” thier current jets, but something like supersonic jets or solar powered jets or
just a plane thats very green willbe in the works. Just my guess
 
AirwayBill
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 12:30 pm

scbriml wrote:
AirwayBill wrote:
Then names of Caravelle, Concorde, Comet, Tristar (although officially L1011), etc all sounded much more distinctive and memorable than today's "777-9XXX A350-1000ULR 737MAX9 A321neoULRNX", and added a glamour vibe to air travel. Nicknaming the 787 'Dreamliner' was a good initiative, but it is what it is: nothing more than a nickname.


Those 'glamorous' names you've listed also had proper type designations:

Caravelle - Sud Aviation SE 210
Comet - De Haviland DH 106
Trident - Hawker Siddeley HS.121

Concorde might be the only type I can think of quickly that didn't have a type designation. Cue 25 responses listing others in 5...4...3... :lol:


True that, my bad!
Were they really necessary though? Or is it nothing more than an industry habit?
I have yet to meet someone referring to the Caravelle as SE210 or the Comet as DH106.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 12:32 pm

What comes after the Boeing 797? Who knows, since there is no Boeing 797 yet...
 
LeDcNq7D
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 12:49 pm

N776AU wrote:
My money is on 808, etc because of how a certain part of the world falsely believes 8 is a lucky number.


HA would be all over that one.
 
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afterburner33
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:02 pm

I vote for 808 as well, although once upon a time that was a car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Grand_Familia
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:05 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Concorde might be the only type I can think of quickly that didn't have a type designation. Cue 25 responses listing others in 5...4...3... :lol:

I want to say Dassault Mercure? I may be wrong ;)
LOL - you beat me to it!
There was probably an internal type number that was not commonly referred to in public, most probably in the MD.xxx series
(MD = Marcel Dassault, e.g. MD.550 Mystère-Delta, commonly known as the Dassault Mirage III)

Likewise assorted British designs featured names but also had type numbers that were not always visible.
e.g. Vickers
The Vickers Viking was technically also the VC.1. AFAIK this was rarely used, and the military derivatives (Valetta, Varsity) totally omitted the VC.1 nomenclature.
The Vickers Viscount. This started life as the VC.2 (you're right, not a lot of people know that), with the first designs on the drawing boards being Type 453 (basically a jet Viking), morphing into the Type 609 (Viceroy) before finally emerging as the Type 630 Viscount. Production models ran from Type 701 to Type.816, but in essence these were sub-types; the aircraft itself was known simply as a Vickers Viscount, with the VC.2 part completely forgotten.
The Vickers Vanguard followed a similar path with Type numbers from 950 to 953 (I have a vague recollection of a Type 954, probably for a freighter, but Wikipedia says I'm mis-remembering....). A deep search into the bowels of Hades reveals that the Vanguard was known by maybe a handful of people as the Vickers VC.9

After dropping the VC Vickers Commercial branding for a decade, the VC.10 reversed the trend by having no name whatsoever. It did retain individual Vickers Type numbers for different models e.g. Super VC.10 Type 1151

And then there was the Bristol Type 223. Whatever happened to that.....? :scratchchin:
Image

Footnote; I do like a challenge (as Steve well knows), so here you go with the stunningly beautiful "Rolls Royce VC.9" :o
It says so on the tail no less! (you probably need to View Large, but I assure you it is worth it) :cloudnine:
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c933103
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:22 pm

After 797 they should bring the 2707 back to continue the numbering
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
Yossarian22
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Perhaps Boeing needs to design a new plane that neither catches fire nor has a suicidal computer, before we talk about this.
 
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keesje
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:31 pm

afterburner33 wrote:
I vote for 808 as well, although once upon a time that was a car:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Grand_Familia


from the time our fathers were making jokes on Japanese car makers :fight: , as we do on Chinese copy cars & aircraft ... :fight:: .

Image

aside, I think Boeing will put an expensive marketing firm on this name topic.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Revelation
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 1:55 pm

Bricktop wrote:
dik909 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
797 will be the NSA. NMA has no business case. Don’t worry about anything after that, because Airbus will kill the NSA in the marketplace and Boeing will exit the commercial airplane market a la Bombardier.


Now that's a theory worth unpacking !! :o

I'm skeptical of whether the government would let Boeing fail. I can imagine another "bailout" which the taxpayers will pay for..

Not fail. They will be a military and space company, where the government subsidies that allow them to sell their commercial airplanes so cheap (after all why would anyone buy them otherwise?) can be used for share buybacks and executive bonuses. Winning!

I think that should leave them with just enough money to bring the next grandfathered post-MAX 737 iteration to market, no?

Maybe with enough left over for all those great 767neo ideas to finally be brought to market as well?
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LX015
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:13 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
Perhaps Boeing needs to design a new plane that neither catches fire nor has a suicidal computer, before we talk about this.


Not a bad idea...
 
Reddevil556
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:19 pm

Maybe I am not catching all the sarcasm in this thread or cannot separate then mindless fanboyism from the sarcasm, but until this MAX disaster, Boeing stocks were on fire and the company was raking in cash. The MAX disaster is the turning point in putting the 737 to rest and the motivation for a clean sheet replacement. The 797, should be successful as long as Boeing doesn’t rush it, which it appears to be taking its time. Boeing and Airbus are too big to fail and a Monopoly is not good for consumers. China/Russia are knocking on the door, but perception will be their biggest hurdle. I am sure A&B are taking the latest products from China and Russia seriously.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:22 pm

Boeing has already reused the 717 name. But I don't think they'll continue down that road. A 727 as a replacement for 737 would be weird. The naming scheme is all about marketing and psychology.

Like someone mentioned earlier, the number 8 is considered to be a lucky number in large parts of the world. So maybe we'll see a a Boeing 808.
 
Elementalism
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:26 pm

dik909 wrote:
At this point we're all expecting the 797 to be an NMA.

But I wonder, what is Boeing most likely to do beyond that ? (other than refining their existing production lines)

Will they introduce a smaller model to seek out market shares currently dominated by smaller aircraft such as Embraer, or the A220 ?

Or, is it possible that they might learn from and pick up where the A380 failed and aim for another jumbo ?

Perhaps the most important question to be asked, though, is: What name/number comes after 797 ? :lol:


I think it really depends what the NMA is. If the 797 ends up being a 767-200 replacement. Then the NMA is still on the table. The bottom line is they need to come up with a 150-225 pax narrow body aircraft without training wheels so it can be more easily modified moving forward. I think the only question for me is. Will Boeing build such a plane? Or will they work with Embraer and grow the E series of planes into 737 replacements.
 
musman9853
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:41 pm

Razza74 wrote:
why not 7107, 7117, 7127, 7137 etc

Razza74


that's my bet too. the 7x7 designation is probably the most recognizable name in the the aviation industry, and it's probably up there in the broader market too. Pretty much everyone knows what a 747 is. Boeing would be stupid to throw away that brand recognition.
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Babyshark
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 2:57 pm

How about a composite 727 with gtf engines in its bunda area?
 
masseybrown
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 3:26 pm

I doubt there even will be a 797. Boeing will come up with something new to disassociate the product from association with the 787 and Max series troubles.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 3:34 pm

AirwayBill wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Those 'glamorous' names you've listed also had proper type designations:

Caravelle - Sud Aviation SE 210
Comet - De Haviland DH 106
Trident - Hawker Siddeley HS.121

Concorde might be the only type I can think of quickly that didn't have a type designation. Cue 25 responses listing others in 5...4...3... :lol:

Were they really necessary though? Or is it nothing more than an industry habit?

The accounting department always needs to assign costs to a code, and the design office needs to show a progression by means of a numbered sequence. Numbers are inevitable in business; names are just a marketing luxury.

I have yet to meet someone referring to the Caravelle as SE210 or the Comet as DH106.

Pleased to meet you! :wave:
Verbally you would say "Caravelle"; but when writing in a logbook it would be SE.210
In truth I probably rarely identified the Comet as DH.106, even though there was the potential for confusing it with the DH.88 Comet!
Strangely I always prefer DH.104 to "Dove" and DH.114 to "Heron" - I cannot explain why, it just is that way for me. :spin:

Regarding the SE.210, for a start five digits is easier to write than "Caravelle" (9 digits), and secondly, the aircraft frequently referred to itself in exactly that way - something neither the Comet nor the Trident were known for.
In the first photo below, it says "Caravelle" in swirly script on the engines, but it also reveals it's type & c/n as "Sud-Aviation SE.210-193" on the rudder.
In the twin shot, Iberia ditched the "Caravelle" moniker but retained SE.210-110 on the tail, whilst SAS dispensed with both scripts


As for the Tristar; it all depends where you come from.
In the US it is invariably referred to as the "L-ten-eleven"
Elsewhere it is described in both forms, and sometimes in full as "L1011 Tristar"
Similarly, no self-respecting yank would use anything other than Lockheed C-130; the name "Hercules" only exists for foreign customers. :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Mat1776
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
808, 818, 828, etc.

I think China has already taken the lead with Comac C919.
Image
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 5:04 pm

Mat1776 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
808, 818, 828, etc.

I think China has already taken the lead with Comac C919.
Image

Heck, Boeing already has the 929 for 40 years.
 
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Revelation
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 6:01 pm

Babyshark wrote:
How about a composite 727 with gtf engines in its bunda area?

Should be no problem, just send the design to your 3D printer and keep feeding in the filament.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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bluestreak
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Re: What comes after the B797 ??

Mon May 13, 2019 7:40 pm

While touring the Everett facility last year, I asked the tour guide the question, "Assuming the next new plane is called the 797, what will Boeing call the new design which follows that? Could it be the 808, 7A7, 2707, etc?" She answered that there was a plan in place for the numeration of the next plane after the 797 is designed. But she said she did not know, and management were tight lipped about it. She had only heard rumors, which she would not mention at that time. So assuming her information was correct, they already have a plan, but aren't ready to share. It does seem strange to me that both Airbus, and Boeing have recently started with the -800 series, instead of -100, -200, etc. The 747 jumped from the-400 to the 8i, the A380 started with the -800, and the A350 started with the -900.

Maybe I should have asked the tour guide what is after the Max10, the Max11?
"Well, we barely made the airport, for the last plane out, as we taxied down the runway, I could hear the people shout"

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