UAUA
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Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 10:25 am

Still no news. Will they return soon? Maybe from JFK or LAX or ATL?

I really miss HKG-NRT-HKG as well as HKG-SEA-HKG.
My former profile name was United Airline.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 10:52 am

Didnt they just leave?

LA or SEA seem like safe bets if they did return
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:03 am

They discussed this earlier this week.

Someone will have the notes.
They lost $20m/year flying to Hong Kong.

They aren’t opposed to starting again at some point but I don’t know if they said what would trigger that change.
 
notdownnlocked
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:09 am

They are still in HKG according to their management with a gleam in their eyes. DL arrives to around 60 to 80 Asian cities every day with Blue and Silver jets that say Korean on the outside. DL will not return to HKG, they are a shuttle service to ICN for KE from secondary USA cities. They are proud of new MSP-ICN and BOS-ICN which the BOS-ICN is on the Silver and Blue.
 
panamair
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:24 am

Any potential return will not happen for at least another few years unless there is a dramatic change in the market dynamics etc. They don’t just close up a station without having considered the alternatives already (e.g., a flight from LAX or JFK or another hub). All you need to do is to look at other stations that have closed and reopened-it took almost 10 years for BOM, around 6 years for TXL, etc.
 
klm617
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:38 am

Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Antarius
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:47 am

klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.


Of course it is. :roll:
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 11:54 am

You can chartered DL flight to Hong Kong
 
WWads
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 12:55 pm

The problem is that DL just has no good Asian partners other than Korean. Routes to other Asian cities have to stand or fall on O/D.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:05 pm

don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).
 
bhxalex
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:07 pm

This comes up every week now.

They just left HKG, why is it an assumption they're going to announce XXX-HKG any day now?

There's no reason for this thread, other than the OP's delusions.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:09 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.


HKG is a hub for Skyteam as well (although not as big as CX / oneworld), together with DL's network in N.A.,
I can't believe that they even can't support with one flight per day.
 
Antarius
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.


HKG is a hub for Skyteam as well (although not as big as CX / oneworld), together with DL's network in N.A.,
I can't believe that they even can't support with one flight per day.


Who is hubbed in HKG for Skyteam?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
Antarius
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 1:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.


To add, AA has done very well with O&D and premium traffic onwards on CX. It isn't uncommon to see DFW-HKG on the 77W go out with all 8 F and 52 J full and zero upgrades.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 2:21 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.


HKG is a hub for Skyteam as well (although not as big as CX / oneworld), together with DL's network in N.A.,
I can't believe that they even can't support with one flight per day.


Which airline? MU is the largest Skyteam carrier in HKG, and DL already have a separate agreement with MU (at PVG). The 2nd largest Skyteam carrier would be CI, but CI themselves has a decent N. America network. Also, who is going to connect from Taiwan to HK to SEA when BR fly TPE-SEA non-stop?

Otherwise, GA (1x 333 daily to DPS, 2x 738 to CGK (alongside a single CI 738 flying KHH-HKG-CGK)), VN (1x 321 to HAN, 10/wk 321 to SGN) are about the only other logical connection. That's far from a "Skyteam hub". Hack, even *A has a larger presence at HKG than Skyteam does.

As for AA - their LAX-HKG is "transferred" by CX IIRC (i.e. CX used to fly 4x daily HKG-LAX, now it's 3x daily CX + 1x daily AA), while DFW is a megahub for AA that's a lot larger in size than DL at SEA. And having a robust connection alongside a large OW FF base helps.f

Might as well throw UA in here - but UA had been flying to HKG for many, many years, non-stop from mainland US. They also fly from cities that has fair size O&D (SFO, ORD, EWR).

Last note? When DL flew SEA-HKG, they were trying to fill up those seat badly by throwing out a bunch of bargain bin fares. ex-HKG it's very common to see DL throwing out sub-USD500 fares as a "sale" to help advertised for that flight.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
usssla
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:05 pm

No and I believe DL will finally downsize china operation when US- China trade war continue.
 
Detroit313
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Crazy that they don't fly to the world's largest business center along with New York and London.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:37 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).

I am guessing you mean AA in DFW.
AA does not fly DTW-HKG
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:02 pm

“We welcome Cathay Pacific to the Seattle market and hope they lose just as much money flying to Hong Kong as we did.” -Delta last fall shortly after they canceled the route and CX picked it up.

The problems for DL in SEA-HKG were myriad: no onward connections, inefficient airplanes for the route (they flew it with the 330, primarily), insufficient local premium cabin demand (global upgrades were usually a sure thing), and local incredibly low fare competition from Xiamen on their direct flight to Shenzhen trashing O&D yields.

If at least one of MF or CX leaves Seattle, and DL gets an efficient long range aircraft available, maaaaybe they could try again. Otherwise, I think this route would only come back from a different gateway; mostly, though, I think Delta is content to serve HKG via KE.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:11 pm

bcbhokie wrote:
“We welcome Cathay Pacific to the Seattle market and hope they lose just as much money flying to Hong Kong as we did.” -Delta last fall shortly after they canceled the route and CX picked it up.

The problems for DL in SEA-HKG were myriad: no onward connections, inefficient airplanes for the route (they flew it with the 330, primarily), insufficient local premium cabin demand (global upgrades were usually a sure thing), and local incredibly low fare competition from Xiamen on their direct flight to Shenzhen trashing O&D yields.

If at least one of MF or CX leaves Seattle, and DL gets an efficient long range aircraft available, maaaaybe they could try again. Otherwise, I think this route would only come back from a different gateway; mostly, though, I think Delta is content to serve HKG via KE.


CX is definitely happy on HKG-SEA, and is increasing frequency in summer (to daily) and also increasing frequency to 5/wk (from 4/wk) in W19.

Plane is definitely a factor (DL simply doesn't have a large long-haul fleet compared to UA and AA), but DL could have hang on for another year or two before they get more 359s (and 330neos) if they feel the market potential is there to/from HKG.

You're seriously overrating MF, though. I mean, they only fly SZX-SEA twice per week. There's only so much seats they can throw out to "trash" fare.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:19 pm

notdownnlocked wrote:
They are still in HKG according to their management with a gleam in their eyes. DL arrives to around 60 to 80 Asian cities every day with Blue and Silver jets that say Korean on the outside. DL will not return to HKG, they are a shuttle service to ICN for KE from secondary USA cities. They are proud of new MSP-ICN and BOS-ICN which the BOS-ICN is on the Silver and Blue.


funny post.
but you're not wrong; this is DL's pacific strategy - "hub" in ICN, keep only other high profit/promise destinations - HND, PVG, SYD, etc. outsource/partner/invest the rest, with lower cost base.
Its how they maintain such high profitability, but nostalgically sad to see Northwests Asian legacy disappear.

for the OP: nope, not even soon - likely never.
 
x1234
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 6:04 pm

I read someone that the HKG market is incredibly alliance driven with OneWorld & CX making the majority of the passengers and only routes with high O&D survive on *A for example (e.g. United & SFO, EWR & ORD).
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 6:34 pm

x1234 wrote:
I read someone that the HKG market is incredibly alliance driven with OneWorld & CX making the majority of the passengers and only routes with high O&D survive on *A for example (e.g. United & SFO, EWR & ORD).


It's not as much "alliance driven" IMHO, but more of the fact that CX is just so dominant in HKG long-haul wise ("Regional" flight is totally different, the competition is high). CX AFAIK also has most of the corporate contracts ex-HKG. HKers in general doesn't like to connect unless they have to also, after being "spoiled" by CX for so many years.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 6:38 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
bcbhokie wrote:
“We welcome Cathay Pacific to the Seattle market and hope they lose just as much money flying to Hong Kong as we did.” -Delta last fall shortly after they canceled the route and CX picked it up.

The problems for DL in SEA-HKG were myriad: no onward connections, inefficient airplanes for the route (they flew it with the 330, primarily), insufficient local premium cabin demand (global upgrades were usually a sure thing), and local incredibly low fare competition from Xiamen on their direct flight to Shenzhen trashing O&D yields.

If at least one of MF or CX leaves Seattle, and DL gets an efficient long range aircraft available, maaaaybe they could try again. Otherwise, I think this route would only come back from a different gateway; mostly, though, I think Delta is content to serve HKG via KE.


CX is definitely happy on HKG-SEA, and is increasing frequency in summer (to daily) and also increasing frequency to 5/wk (from 4/wk) in W19.

Plane is definitely a factor (DL simply doesn't have a large long-haul fleet compared to UA and AA), but DL could have hang on for another year or two before they get more 359s (and 330neos) if they feel the market potential is there to/from HKG.

You're seriously overrating MF, though. I mean, they only fly SZX-SEA twice per week. There's only so much seats they can throw out to "trash" fare.


I though I read that MF is leaving SEA. Is that not correct?
 
GoSharks
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 6:51 pm

x1234 wrote:
I read someone that the HKG market is incredibly alliance driven with OneWorld & CX making the majority of the passengers and only routes with high O&D survive on *A for example (e.g. United & SFO, EWR & ORD).

UA actually has partnerships on the HKG end and, for example, will sell a discount ticket SFO-HKG-xyz connecting on CX/KA/JM/HX.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 6:57 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I though I read that MF is leaving SEA. Is that not correct?


I couldn't find anything in that regards. MF is staying AFAIK.

GoSharks wrote:
UA actually has partnerships on the HKG end and, for example, will sell a discount ticket SFO-HKG-xyz connecting on CX/KA/JM/HX.


I was definitely surprised by the amount of interline baggage tags with the pax connecting from a CX/KA flight (mainly to/from mainland PRC) to UA at HKG I saw on the carousel at ORD, consider that CX operates their own HKG-ORD flight.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
n2dru
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 7:23 pm

klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.


Many speculated or was it you?
 
evank516
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 8:29 pm

Antarius wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.


Of course it is. :roll:


He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Delta is a domestic airline that happens to have flights left over from when they actually cared about international flying.

It is a shame but I doubt we see Delta do any international expansion in the near term.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 8:57 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
Delta is a domestic airline that happens to have flights left over from when they actually cared about international flying.

It is a shame but I doubt we see Delta do any international expansion in the near term.


Right, because DL has such a tiny international network to show how little they care. New markets like IND-CDG or SEA-KIX or MSP-ICN or TPA-AMS or RDU-CDG or SLC-AMS or SLC-LHR or PDX-LHR or the HND awards are just figments of our imagination that show how little they care.

The next markets I can see are PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN. A KE 787 might be the best equipment for each. Maybe PDX-CDG too.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 9:05 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Delta is a domestic airline that happens to have flights left over from when they actually cared about international flying.

It is a shame but I doubt we see Delta do any international expansion in the near term.


Right, because DL has such a tiny international network to show how little they care. New markets like IND-CDG or SEA-KIX or MSP-ICN or TPA-AMS or RDU-CDG or SLC-AMS or SLC-LHR or PDX-LHR or the HND awards are just figments of our imagination that show how little they care.

The next markets I can see are PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN. A KE 787 might be the best equipment for each. Maybe PDX-CDG too.


All of those destinations go into JV/Skyteam partner hubs sans KIX. Name me the last time that Delta made a push into markets that were not hubs for JV partners.

Delta international flying is not increasing and it is a shame because the product has finally become competitive with international airlines.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 9:32 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Delta is a domestic airline that happens to have flights left over from when they actually cared about international flying.

It is a shame but I doubt we see Delta do any international expansion in the near term.


Right, because DL has such a tiny international network to show how little they care. New markets like IND-CDG or SEA-KIX or MSP-ICN or TPA-AMS or RDU-CDG or SLC-AMS or SLC-LHR or PDX-LHR or the HND awards are just figments of our imagination that show how little they care.

The next markets I can see are PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN. A KE 787 might be the best equipment for each. Maybe PDX-CDG too.


All of those destinations go into JV/Skyteam partner hubs sans KIX. Name me the last time that Delta made a push into markets that were not hubs for JV partners.

Delta international flying is not increasing and it is a shame because the product has finally become competitive with international airlines.


All the HND flights.
 
Antarius
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 9:58 pm

evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.


Of course it is. :roll:


He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


DTW is, but they arent flying it. Which means premier hub or not, DL does not currently feel that either a. They can make HKG work (and they have ample data) b. Deploying equipment on this route is less profitable than elsewhere. And that poster was pretty much the only one doing the speculation despite DL clearly stating that HKG wasnt working.

So, I'm summary, parts of the post are technically correct, but is generally irrelevant to this thread.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
evank516
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 10:30 pm

Antarius wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Of course it is. :roll:


He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


DTW is, but they arent flying it. Which means premier hub or not, DL does not currently feel that either a. They can make HKG work (and they have ample data) b. Deploying equipment on this route is less profitable than elsewhere. And that poster was pretty much the only one doing the speculation despite DL clearly stating that HKG wasnt working.

So, I'm summary, parts of the post are technically correct, but is generally irrelevant to this thread.


I don't disagree with you at all. I don't even think DL has been out of HKG for a year yet. It would be very hasty for them to attempt it again so soon, even if it was from a different city. However, I do think that DTW would be a logical attempt in the future if they do decide to try again.
 
alfa164
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 10:40 pm

evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.

Of course it is. :roll:

He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


That doesn't automatically make DTW "their best option" though...
Last edited by alfa164 on Sat May 18, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
evank516
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sat May 18, 2019 10:42 pm

alfa164 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Of course it is. :roll:

He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


That doesn't make DTW "their best option" though...


But a logical one. He's right that DL does funnel a lot of passengers to Asia via DTW.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 12:05 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Right, because DL has such a tiny international network to show how little they care. New markets like IND-CDG or SEA-KIX or MSP-ICN or TPA-AMS or RDU-CDG or SLC-AMS or SLC-LHR or PDX-LHR or the HND awards are just figments of our imagination that show how little they care.

The next markets I can see are PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN. A KE 787 might be the best equipment for each. Maybe PDX-CDG too.


All of those destinations go into JV/Skyteam partner hubs sans KIX. Name me the last time that Delta made a push into markets that were not hubs for JV partners.

Delta international flying is not increasing and it is a shame because the product has finally become competitive with international airlines.


All the HND flights.


They are just moving the flights from Narita to Haneda, hardly an international expansion like United has over the past 5 years.

Delta has concentrated its efforts into flying trunk routes into JV or Skyteam hubs. It isn't a bad business model (actually pretty profitable as the earnings show) but to say that they are booming in the international market isn't 100 percent accurate IMHO
 
FSDan
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 12:57 am

evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Many have speculated that they would try DTW-HKG when Delta got the A350. Detroit is their best option being that it is Delta's premiere hub to Asia and give them the access to the most connections.


Of course it is. :roll:


He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


No, he's not right. DL started and pulled DTW-HKG before their more recent attempts from SEA. DTW-HKG is too long a route to sustain on mostly connections, and the O&D traffic is much smaller than other Asian routes that do well from DTW such as TYO, NGO, ICN, and PVG.

The bottom line is that the only DL hubs with significant high value O&D traffic to HKG are LAX and JFK. Both face significant competition; LAX even more so than JFK. DL may eventually decide that they have enough corporate contracts with financial firms in NYC that it would be profitable for them to enter the JFK-HKG market. If they don't decide that, I don't see them returning to HKG with their own metal unless they get an aircraft better suited to the SEA-HKG route than the 332 (not enough range to be reliable) or 772 (too much capacity).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
klm617
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Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 1:00 am

FSDan wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Of course it is. :roll:


He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


No, he's not right. DL started and pulled DTW-HKG before their more recent attempts from SEA. DTW-HKG is too long a route to sustain on mostly connections, and the O&D traffic is much smaller than other Asian routes that do well from DTW such as TYO, NGO, ICN, and PVG.

The bottom line is that the only DL hubs with significant high value O&D traffic to HKG are LAX and JFK. Both face significant competition; LAX even more so than JFK. DL may eventually decide that they have enough corporate contracts with financial firms in NYC that it would be profitable for them to enter the JFK-HKG market. If they don't decide that, I don't see them returning to HKG with their own metal unless they get an aircraft better suited to the SEA-HKG route than the 332 (not enough range to be reliable) or 772 (too much capacity).


Yes but now Delta has a much more efficient aircraft to serve the DTW-HKG route it's flagship A350. HKG is already well served from LAX and JFK and let's face it there was a market from SEA-HKG because CX wasted no time in jumping in and picking up that traffic. it's funny how everyone thinks routes will work from other Delta hubs i.e. ATL and MSP but not from Detroit Delta's second largest hub. For what it's worth I believe DTW-HKG lasted longer than SEA-HKG
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FSDan
Posts: 2621
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 1:14 am

klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
evank516 wrote:

He's actually right about this one. SEA didn't work and DTW is their other Asian gateway.


No, he's not right. DL started and pulled DTW-HKG before their more recent attempts from SEA. DTW-HKG is too long a route to sustain on mostly connections, and the O&D traffic is much smaller than other Asian routes that do well from DTW such as TYO, NGO, ICN, and PVG.

The bottom line is that the only DL hubs with significant high value O&D traffic to HKG are LAX and JFK. Both face significant competition; LAX even more so than JFK. DL may eventually decide that they have enough corporate contracts with financial firms in NYC that it would be profitable for them to enter the JFK-HKG market. If they don't decide that, I don't see them returning to HKG with their own metal unless they get an aircraft better suited to the SEA-HKG route than the 332 (not enough range to be reliable) or 772 (too much capacity).


Yes but now Delta has a much more efficient aircraft to serve the DTW-HKG route it's flagship A350. HKG is already well served from LAX and JFK and let's face it there was a market from SEA-HKG because CX wasted no time in jumping in and picking up that traffic. it's funny how everyone thinks routes will work from other Delta hubs i.e. ATL and MSP but not from Detroit Delta's second largest hub. For what it's worth I believe DTW-HKG lasted longer than SEA-HKG


CX can connect people from SEA to destinations all over China, Southeast Asia, and even India. They're picking up a different segment of the market than DL was.

I have nothing against DTW - it has great O&D to places with auto industry ties. Routes like DTW-NRT, DTW-NGO, DTW-ICN, DTW-PVG, and DTW-FRA are great fits. Same story with a lot of the Mexico adds that the DL/AM JV has produced recently. But your insistence that pretty much any international route should be able to work from DTW is completely baseless, and tiresome to many on here.
Last edited by FSDan on Sun May 19, 2019 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2621
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 1:29 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Name me the last time that Delta made a push into markets that were not hubs for JV partners.


You really don't have to look very far... BOS-DUB, BOS-EDI, BOS-LIS, JFK-LOS, JFK-PDL, JFK-BOM (upcoming), to name a few from the last two years.

It's definitely true that DL has the smallest international fleet of the US3, and that as a result they haven't been expanding as fast internationally as AA and UA (who've both been accepting scores of 787s over the past few years). That doesn't make them a "domestic airline". DL serves literally hundreds of international routes.

A few years ago, DL was routinely criticized on here for following the "DL Dartboard" method of route planning. As soon as they starting making more logical additions to their route network, they're called a domestic airline with some leftover international routes. People have short term memories, I guess.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 1:29 am

evank516 wrote:
...DL does funnel a lot of passengers to Asia via <forbidden airport>.


I guess that need to be addressed sooner than later.
 
klm617
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 1:47 am

FSDan wrote:
klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

No, he's not right. DL started and pulled DTW-HKG before their more recent attempts from SEA. DTW-HKG is too long a route to sustain on mostly connections, and the O&D traffic is much smaller than other Asian routes that do well from DTW such as TYO, NGO, ICN, and PVG.

The bottom line is that the only DL hubs with significant high value O&D traffic to HKG are LAX and JFK. Both face significant competition; LAX even more so than JFK. DL may eventually decide that they have enough corporate contracts with financial firms in NYC that it would be profitable for them to enter the JFK-HKG market. If they don't decide that, I don't see them returning to HKG with their own metal unless they get an aircraft better suited to the SEA-HKG route than the 332 (not enough range to be reliable) or 772 (too much capacity).


Yes but now Delta has a much more efficient aircraft to serve the DTW-HKG route it's flagship A350. HKG is already well served from LAX and JFK and let's face it there was a market from SEA-HKG because CX wasted no time in jumping in and picking up that traffic. it's funny how everyone thinks routes will work from other Delta hubs i.e. ATL and MSP but not from Detroit Delta's second largest hub. For what it's worth I believe DTW-HKG lasted longer than SEA-HKG


CX can connect people from SEA to destinations all over China, Southeast Asia, and even India. They're picking up a different segment of the market than DL was.

I have nothing against DTW - it has great O&D to places with auto industry ties. Routes like DTW-NRT, DTW-NGO, DTW-ICN, DTW-PVG, and DTW-FRA are great fits. Same story with a lot of the Mexico adds that the DL/AM JV has produced recently. But your insistence that pretty much any international route should be able to work from DTW is completely baseless, and tiresome to many on here.


First of all that's not true I don't think every international market should be linked to Detroit. Secondly why does everyone think that every Delta hub has universal appeal to all markets as far connections go yet Detroit only should get links based on their automotive ties. This is a thread about HKG and let's face it Delta has no desire to link Asia with New York it doesn't even fly to ICN with it's own metal so why would you come to the conclusion that JFK-HKG is the only viable link DTW is a better option it has the best aircraft for the market based at DTW the A359 so if Delta would try HKG again it most likely will be from DTW
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Yonderlust
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:32 am

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 2:04 am

Antarius wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
don't know why they kept on failing in HKG while AA as a late entrance can be successful in LAX & DTW.
They have relatively good services and product images in HKG (compared to other US3).


Are you not aware of AA's partner Cathay Pacific? DL to HKG is O&D. AA has lots on onward connections.


To add, AA has done very well with O&D and premium traffic onwards on CX. It isn't uncommon to see DFW-HKG on the 77W go out with all 8 F and 52 J full and zero upgrades.


True! As a non-rev I can attest that DFW-HKG is difficult to get any seat higher than prem-econ. Several times I just barely get on that flight and its return.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 2:37 am

klm617 wrote:
This is a thread about HKG and let's face it Delta has no desire to link Asia with New York it doesn't even fly to ICN with it's own metal so why would you come to the conclusion that JFK-HKG is the only viable link DTW is a better option it has the best aircraft for the market based at DTW the A359 so if Delta would try HKG again it most likely will be from DTW


What do you have against punctuation?

Also, no, they do not definitively have the right metal for DTW-HKG. They may have better choices, but the a359 is still a big aircraft.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
FlyBitcoin
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 2:57 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Crazy that they don't fly to the world's largest business center along with New York and London.


Then that world's largest business center should support that flight and not cause it to lose $20 million a year.

They will be out of all TPAC that does not terminate in a hub for KE, MU, or VA. Except for Tokyo which will be all operate out of HND by late Spring 2020.

I think PEK, SIN, MNL are all on the chopping block.

Flying to non-hubs in Europe and Africa is profitable.
Doing so to Asia is not. Fares are just too low if you cannot fill those flights with ongoing connections.
 
N809FR
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 3:26 am

klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Yes but now Delta has a much more efficient aircraft to serve the DTW-HKG route it's flagship A350. HKG is already well served from LAX and JFK and let's face it there was a market from SEA-HKG because CX wasted no time in jumping in and picking up that traffic. it's funny how everyone thinks routes will work from other Delta hubs i.e. ATL and MSP but not from Detroit Delta's second largest hub. For what it's worth I believe DTW-HKG lasted longer than SEA-HKG


CX can connect people from SEA to destinations all over China, Southeast Asia, and even India. They're picking up a different segment of the market than DL was.

I have nothing against DTW - it has great O&D to places with auto industry ties. Routes like DTW-NRT, DTW-NGO, DTW-ICN, DTW-PVG, and DTW-FRA are great fits. Same story with a lot of the Mexico adds that the DL/AM JV has produced recently. But your insistence that pretty much any international route should be able to work from DTW is completely baseless, and tiresome to many on here.


First of all that's not true I don't think every international market should be linked to Detroit. Secondly why does everyone think that every Delta hub has universal appeal to all markets as far connections go yet Detroit only should get links based on their automotive ties. This is a thread about HKG and let's face it Delta has no desire to link Asia with New York it doesn't even fly to ICN with it's own metal so why would you come to the conclusion that JFK-HKG is the only viable link DTW is a better option it has the best aircraft for the market based at DTW the A359 so if Delta would try HKG again it most likely will be from DTW


DL’s A359 has more seats than any other plane in their fleet. For a marginal route it’s way too big, and I highly doubt DL would want to dump that much capacity on DTW-HKG. Frankly DL has a pretty poor fleet mix as far as range/capacity goes. They need a smaller widebody with more range than the A332 or 763 offer.
 
panamair
Posts: 4103
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 3:44 am

FlyBitcoin wrote:

I think PEK, SIN, MNL are all on the chopping block..


Beijing should be fine as the new airport in Daxing - PKX - will be a large MU hub.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Will DL return to Hong Kong anytime soon?

Sun May 19, 2019 3:52 am

FlyBitcoin wrote:
I think PEK, SIN, MNL are all on the chopping block.


Getting somewhat off topic, but why would DL drop PEK (Other than moving to PKX, that is)? Mainland PRC is not part of KE-DL JV, and PEK involved a backtrack from PVG on MU.

Plus MU has a decent presence in BJS market even now. And that should only grow once PKX open.

P.S. If (a big if) DL tried HKG again, it'll definitely be out of SEA (1st choice) or DTW (2nd choice). DTW-HKG was never known for its high yield when NW then DL flew that route, though, i.e. it's always one of those flight that's "cheapest way to fly between HKG and mainland US".
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