Fex180
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Airline routes and colonial legacies

Thu May 23, 2019 11:33 pm

Browsing around Wikipedia, I noticed that AirNamibia's only long-haul destination is FRA. Namibia was of course a German colony until 1918. This got me thinking about other air routes that wouldn't make sense if it wasn't for a colonial legacy between a European nation and former subject nation.

I'm Wondering what other good examples examples of this phenomenon might be???
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 12:07 am

Air France to pretty much everywhere with an airport in West Africa
Brussels to Congo
KLM / Garuda between AMS and both Surinam and Indonesia
Ethiopian to Rome
British Airways high frequency to India, South Africa, Hong Kong and much of SE Africa
British Airways having a franchise in South Africa
Lisbon to Luanda and Maputo with TAAG / LAM
Aeroflot to the stans in central Asia
Austrian to various small cities across central Europe
Philippines to the USA
Iberia to every city in Latin America
Air NZ to London

Pick a country that invaded somewhere in the last 200 years, and there's probably more flights connecting those 2 areas now than might be expected
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 12:08 am

CDG - SGN and BRU - FIH come to mind (Vietnam and the DR Congo being former French and Belgian colonies respectively)
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 12:30 am

Ba to usa or us airlines to uk...
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stl07
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 1:08 am

Every Caribbean island. Some of the Dutch islands have more service to AMS than to MIA/FLL/NYC combined. Meanwhile, no American island has a TATL except for Puerto Rico, which has Spain (surprise!).
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
klm617
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 1:10 am

DT LUN-LIS
AF CAY-ORY
BA BDA-LHR
CU HAV-SVO
QU EBB-BRU
LA IPC-SCL
HH MGQ-FCO
QM LLW-LHR
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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leleko747
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 1:34 am

TAP flies to several Brazilian cities: São Paulo, Rio, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Recife, Fortaleza, Salvador, Brasilia, Natal... I think Belém too. Guess what: Brazil was a Portuguese colony.
Similar case as British Airways and the USA.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 1:38 am

klm617 wrote:
AF CAY-ORY


Umm...you realized that French Guiana is as much a part of France as Alaska is a part of US, right?

Otherwise, there's France to Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia also (They're technically not "West Africa" :)). You can fly from PAR to every single larger airports in those 3 countries.
For Portugal, a more "extreme" example would be TMS (Sao Tome) - all the longer flights go to former Portuguese colony (LAD/SID on TAAG, LIS on STP, LIS via ACC on TAP). Oh, and of course, Brasil (and the fact that Brazil has lots more flights to LIS vs. let say, MAD; while every other Latin American country has tons of flights to MAD).
Meanwhile, CEIBA International (Flag carrier of Equatorial Guinea)'s only longer-haul flights goes to MAD, just b/c Eq. Guinea was the one and only Spanish colony in Africa (Not counting places like Ceuta).

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Air NZ to London


And QF to LON also. And not surprisingly, QF's strongest market in East Asia are SIN and HKG, both former UK colony.

eastafspot wrote:
Ba to usa or us airlines to uk...


And Canada. Even crazier is the fact that Quebec (Formerly part of France) has a lot more flights to PAR while Toronto has a lot more flights to LON.
 
eal
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 1:43 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Ethiopian to Rome


Ethiopia was never an Italian colony, unless you're counting WW2, which isn't really fair because I can assure you JAL serving Hanoi has nothing to do with colonialism; Eritrea, Libya and Italian Somaliland were Italy's African possessions;

Many of these links exist only if there continues to be significant economic interaction between the colonized and colonizer; BA to US cities is not a good example, most of the US wasn't even developed by the time the Americans booted the British out; there's no flights from Madrid to Manila or Lisbon to Macau because the economic connections are not there
 
DXTraveler
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:00 am

"Pick a country that invaded somewhere in the last 200 years"
Big difference between an invasion and being colonized.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 am

Some of the markets mentioned above are certainly now more economic/tourism focused than they are as simply legacy colonial markets. Some connection with roots, the motherland, sure, but not filling up the flights on that alone. It's not like today's Aussies are returning home after serving their Transportation time, and most Americans are not of British descent. Where it may be involved is in travels where you can speak your native language, which Americans and Britons can almost manage. :wave:
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 178 airports, 89 airlines, 71 a/c types, 397 routes, 56 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,101,154 passenger miles.

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anshabhi
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 am

Colonial period was a universally dark time for all the countries. No sane country would be interested in maintaining "colonial legacy"

If any flight exists today it's purely because of commercial reasons
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Air France to pretty much everywhere with an airport in West Africa
Brussels to Congo
KLM / Garuda between AMS and both Surinam and Indonesia
Ethiopian to Rome
British Airways high frequency to India, South Africa, Hong Kong and much of SE Africa
British Airways having a franchise in South Africa
Lisbon to Luanda and Maputo with TAAG / LAM
Aeroflot to the stans in central Asia
Austrian to various small cities across central Europe
Philippines to the USA
Iberia to every city in Latin America
Air NZ to London

Pick a country that invaded somewhere in the last 200 years, and there's probably more flights connecting those 2 areas now than might be expected


Hope you know Brasil never had anything related to Spain and were Portuguese colony.
That's why Brazilian Portuguese is the official language while all others countries in LA speak Spanish.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:49 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Air NZ to London


And QF to LON also. And not surprisingly, QF's strongest market in East Asia are SIN and HKG, both former UK colony.


It's really not that simple. SIN and HKG are both massive financial and business centres that drive a lot of premium demand. While their economic stength is a legacy of their "entrepot" status under British rule, historic colonial ties is not the reason that there is massive demand between Australia and Singapore and Hong Kong today. Qantas' third largest Asian market is Tokyo, another massive financial/corporate market.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:55 am

anshabhi wrote:
Colonial period was a universally dark time for all the countries. No sane country would be interested in maintaining "colonial legacy"

If any flight exists today it's purely because of commercial reasons

Today’s commercial reasons often have past colonial ties. There is a reason KLM flies to AUA and BA and VS fly to BGI.
 
Jetty
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 3:20 am

stl07 wrote:
Every Caribbean island. Some of the Dutch islands have more service to AMS than to MIA/FLL/NYC combined. Meanwhile, no American island has a TATL except for Puerto Rico, which has Spain (surprise!).

Difference being that the Dutch islands are still Dutch, and that’s more than just a colonial legacy. This drives all kinds of government traffic just as with the French islands that are still French. I wouldn’t call it a colonies still because they all have a right of self-determination but democratically chose to remain Dutch.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 3:25 am

ojjunior wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Air France to pretty much everywhere with an airport in West Africa
Brussels to Congo
KLM / Garuda between AMS and both Surinam and Indonesia
Ethiopian to Rome
British Airways high frequency to India, South Africa, Hong Kong and much of SE Africa
British Airways having a franchise in South Africa
Lisbon to Luanda and Maputo with TAAG / LAM
Aeroflot to the stans in central Asia
Austrian to various small cities across central Europe
Philippines to the USA
Iberia to every city in Latin America
Air NZ to London

Pick a country that invaded somewhere in the last 200 years, and there's probably more flights connecting those 2 areas now than might be expected


Hope you know Brasil never had anything related to Spain and were Portuguese colony.
That's why Brazilian Portuguese is the official language while all others countries in LA speak Spanish.


Not quite right. People in Suriname, Guyana and French Guyana ( sp) may disagree.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 3:26 am

DXTraveler wrote:
"Pick a country that invaded somewhere in the last 200 years"
Big difference between an invasion and being colonized.


Yeah tell that to the indigenous people.
 
mapletux
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:49 am

Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 4:25 am

anshabhi wrote:
Colonial period was a universally dark time for all the countries. No sane country would be interested in maintaining "colonial legacy"

If any flight exists today it's purely because of commercial reasons


Some of the commercial reasons such as a common language (which is good for business and tourism) are because of the "colonial legacy".
 
twicearound
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 4:48 am

klm617 wrote:
DT LUN-LIS
AF CAY-ORY
BA BDA-LHR
CU HAV-SVO
QU EBB-BRU
LA IPC-SCL
HH MGQ-FCO
QM LLW-LHR


Cuba was never a colony of Russia or the USSR.
 
TSA125
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:00 am

CGK-AMS
No not that TSA.
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 10:12 am

If you count the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere as a colony, then JAL to PEK/ICN/BKK/SGN/SIN/CGK/MNL.
 
myki
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 10:34 am

klm617 wrote:
LA IPC-SCL

Probably because it's the same country? :wave:
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 2:18 pm

TheEuphorian wrote:
If you count the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere as a colony, then JAL to PEK/ICN/BKK/SGN/SIN/CGK/MNL.


Well...it highly depends. Places like Korean Peninsula and Taiwan were under Japanese control (as a colony, of course) for a lot longer than places like most of China (excluding "Manchuria" aka modern NE China), HK, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines, etc.. I definitely wouldn't call those routes "colonial legacies" either way :).

BTW, BKK (Thailand) was never a Japanese colony during WWII. The (non-puppet) gov't was pro-Axis and Thailand retain their "independence" by being an ally with Japan.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:01 pm

twicearound wrote:
Cuba was never a colony of Russia or the USSR.


True, but nonetheless there has been quite some Russian influence in Cuba, although that basically started after WW2.

After WW2 the European countries were in a bad shape and in need of help. The USA provided this help and because of that Western Europe was built up again. Cuba was also in a bad shape and also asked the USA for help, the same help the European countries received. But they didn't get any, America just told them no. So after that, the Cubans turned to the Russians. Of course the Russians agreed and they did indeed help Cuba, of course in exchange for Russian military facilities to be built in Cuba. Now the Russians had control over a piece of land very close to the USA. How America wished they would have said yes to helping Cuba, but it was too late...

Before WW2 there was no Russian influence. Cuba was a former Spanish colony, as was a lot of Central America. Even today the Spanish influence can still be seen and of course heard (Spanish is the official language in Cuba). There are quite some flights between Cuba and Spain, more than anywhere else in Europe. Traffic between Europe and Cuba is a lot less restricted (and therefor a bigger market) than traffic between the USA and Cuba.

Right next to Cuba are the Bahamas, but while Cuba was Spanish the Bahamas were British. This can still be seen as the majority of flights from the Bahamas to Europe go to the UK.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Jetty wrote:
Difference being that the Dutch islands are still Dutch, and that’s more than just a colonial legacy. This drives all kinds of government traffic just as with the French islands that are still French. I wouldn’t call it a colonies still because they all have a right of self-determination but democratically chose to remain Dutch.


Not entirely true, only half of the islands are still Dutch. The Netherlands Antilles is an independent country and consists of Aruba, Curacao and St. Maarten. It is no longer a part of the Netherlands, although of course much related. Only Bonaire, St. Eustatius and Saba are still Dutch, they are special overseas municipalities of the Netherlands.

Of course the Netherlands Antilles, even though independent, still has closer ties with the Netherlands than with any other country. With very few exceptions, all flights from these islands to Europe go to the Netherlands. St. Maarten is shared with France so it also has a lot of flights to France, but Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao don't.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Not entirely true, only half of the islands are still Dutch. The Netherlands Antilles is an independent country and consists of Aruba, Curacao and St. Maarten. It is no longer a part of the Netherlands, although of course much related. Only Bonaire, St. Eustatius and Saba are still Dutch, they are special overseas municipalities of the Netherlands.

Of course the Netherlands Antilles, even though independent, still has closer ties with the Netherlands than with any other country. With very few exceptions, all flights from these islands to Europe go to the Netherlands. St. Maarten is shared with France so it also has a lot of flights to France, but Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao don't.


There is no such thing as "Netherland Antilles" anymore actually - i.e. Aruba, Curacao, and St. Maarten are now independent from each other and are independent countries. None of them are sovereign state, though, and all 3 are still part of "Kingdom of the Netherlands". Their status are no different than England/Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland, each being independent country, but ultimately are not sovereign state themselves (and is part of...well, UK); or, the like of Greenland and Faroe Islands (Part of Kingdom of Denmark). Aruba/Curacao/St. Maarten are definitely different than Suriname, which is now a totally independent sovereign state, although its people/economy is heavily tied to Netherlands.
 
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fallap
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:40 pm

Well, from Copenhagen you can reach most major cities of our former colonies, Sweden, Norway, and Iceland ;)
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Now studying Political Science
 
soflaflyer
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 5:40 pm

ojjunior wrote:

Hope you know Brasil never had anything related to Spain and were Portuguese colony.
That's why Brazilian Portuguese is the official language while all others countries in LA speak Spanish.


Hope you know Brasil never had anything related to Spain and were Portuguese colony.
Correct

That's why Brazilian Portuguese is the official language while all others countries in LA speak Spanish.[/quote]
False
Suriname - Dutch
Guiana - French
Guyana - English
Belize - English
More variety if you include the Caribbean, depends on what you count as LA.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Fri May 24, 2019 6:38 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
There is no such thing as "Netherland Antilles" anymore actually - i.e. Aruba, Curacao, and St. Maarten are now independent from each other and are independent countries. None of them are sovereign state, though, and all 3 are still part of "Kingdom of the Netherlands". Their status are no different than England/Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland, each being independent country, but ultimately are not sovereign state themselves (and is part of...well, UK); or, the like of Greenland and Faroe Islands (Part of Kingdom of Denmark). Aruba/Curacao/St. Maarten are definitely different than Suriname, which is now a totally independent sovereign state, although its people/economy is heavily tied to Netherlands.


True, they're independent countries now.

However comparing them to England/Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland is not quite a good comparison. Better would it be to compare them to Australia. After all, the queen of England is also the queen of Australia. Australia is not part of the UK as a country, but it is part of it as a kingdom. She is the queen of more than one country. You did get it right with Greenland and the Faroe Islands. Independent countries that share a queen with Denmark and as such are part of the kingdom of Denmark without being part of Denmark.

The same is the case with Aruba, Curacao and St. Maarten. They share a king with the Netherlands and as such they are in the kingdom, but they are not in the country of the Netherlands.

Suriname is indeed different. When Suriname became independent, they choose not to remain within the kingdom of the Netherlands. Therefor the king of the Netherlands (also the king of Aruba, Curacao and St. Maarten) is not the king of Suriname. Instead, Suriname is a republic which has a president instead of a king.
 
Cunard
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Sat May 25, 2019 11:17 pm

klm617 wrote:
DT LUN-LIS
AF CAY-ORY
BA BDA-LHR
CU HAV-SVO
QU EBB-BRU
LA IPC-SCL
HH MGQ-FCO
QM LLW-LHR


QM don't fly Lilongwe-London Heathrow and have never done so, from 1972 to 1978 QM flew Blantyre-Nairobi-London Gatwick with a single Vickers VC-10 7Q-YKH.

BA fly to Bermuda from LGW not from LHR, although it was previously served from LHR up until the nineties. Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory.

A few of your quoted routes are long gone as are the airline's, an example being QU EBB-BRU.

Cuba has never been a colony of Russia or the former USSR.

I'm surprised that LON-HKG hasn't been mentioned as this is very much a former colonial route and more recent than some of the other quoted routes.
With Hong Kong being a colony of the United Kingdom up untill the 01 July 1997. Consequently the handover is regarded by some as the final act of the British Empire, with 01 July 1997 being the end date of it.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Sun May 26, 2019 5:32 am

klm617 wrote:
DT LUN-LIS
AF CAY-ORY
BA BDA-LHR
CU HAV-SVO
QU EBB-BRU
LA IPC-SCL
HH MGQ-FCO
QM LLW-LHR


Easter Island is part of Chile. I don’t believe it’s a colony.
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Mon May 27, 2019 11:57 am

AI and the now shutdown 9W from BOM, DEL, BLR, AMD to LHR.....also BA to various Indian cities....
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2593
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Mon May 27, 2019 11:59 am

mapletux wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Colonial period was a universally dark time for all the countries. No sane country would be interested in maintaining "colonial legacy"

If any flight exists today it's purely because of commercial reasons


Some of the commercial reasons such as a common language (which is good for business and tourism) are because of the "colonial legacy".


:checkmark: Both the above statements equally true
 
LH658
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Thu May 30, 2019 5:23 am

BA to Pakistan resuming June 2nd, and PIA to UK.
Though no BA to Dhaka, but Biman Operates to UK.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Airline routes and colonial legacies

Thu May 30, 2019 6:18 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Meanwhile, CEIBA International (Flag carrier of Equatorial Guinea)'s only longer-haul flights goes to MAD, just b/c Eq. Guinea was the one and only Spanish colony in Africa (Not counting places like Ceuta).


Ceuta and Melilla have never been colonies. Your statement is untrue. Western Sahara (now a disputed area part of Morocco) was the last Spanish colony, only getting independence in 1976.

El Aaiún (Laayoune; code EUN) which is Western Sahara's largest city has its only international connection to LPA (with both Binter and RAM).

Villa Cisneros (Dakhla; code VIL) the capital of the region has also LPA with Binter and RAM. Now they got a first international connection with Transavia to ORY.

Note the airport codes (EUN and VIL) reflect the name of the cities in Spanish.

Western Sahara is a perfect example of colonial legacy and routes.

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