irishpower
Topic Author
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:18 am

Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:21 am

Just curious as to why UA chose to launch service to CPT over JNB? I'm guessing there would be more business traffic to JNB.

Thoughts?
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:37 am

I would assume they are counting on traffic from the U.S. end of the route to make it work, and I can only imagine it’s a lot easier to market CPT to Americans over JNB
 
Noise
Posts: 2447
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:39 am

JNB is a hot and high airport. These Ultra Long Haul routes perform better when they don't have restrictions placed on them due to the elevation of the airport.
 
Karlsands
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:50 am

Money is always the answer
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:21 am

1. South African already flies non stop from NYC to JNB.
2. No one flies non stop from North America to CPT.
3. They will attempt to cater to the leisure crowd with the northern winter seasonal CPT run. Not the business crowd.

And yes, CPT is much more marketable to American tourists than JNB.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6266
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:45 am

Karlsands wrote:
Money is always the answer


Thanks. I wouldn’t have guessed that. I’m sure the OP though UA started it for charity purposes. That why he asked a very valid question.

The next post is very helpful.

Your replies in quite a few other threads also were simply meaningless one or two word sarcastic responses.

What’s next for SEA? Hipsters. Got anything more than that?

Care to engage in some intelligent discussion on A.net?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3303
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:50 am

JNB's altitude makes ULH flights operationally difficult. DL and SA both have weight restrictions on their flights from JNB to the US.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5241
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:08 am

Because American tourists.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:28 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
1. South African already flies non stop from NYC to JNB.
2. No one flies non stop from North America to CPT.
3. They will attempt to cater to the leisure crowd with the northern winter seasonal CPT run. Not the business crowd.

And yes, CPT is much more marketable to American tourists than JNB.


This exactly, UA is only seasonal on this route & would not be a reliable business route. That being said, CPT has many wealthy residents (think DeBeers retirees), we have good family friends that live there & their entire family worked in the higher ranks for DeBeers S.A. over their collective lifetimes, One moved & retired to Colorado.

I bet UA will garner the premium heavy demand to the USA during their season, even if it's off season here. United may have another well thought out success story with the 787. I hope it goes full year soon.

Question, how long does UA plan on keeping their aircraft on the ground in CPT? Part of the larger expense that DL incurs is that 777 sitting for 12-15 hours at JNB, that is avoided at CPT. SA can use their 346 & operate a regional return, with an early morning 8am out of JNB & return to JNB for the night departure back to IAD or JFK.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
Judge1310
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:36 am

RWA380 wrote:
Question, how long does UA plan on keeping their aircraft on the ground in CPT? Part of the larger expense that DL incurs is that 777 sitting for 12-15 hours at JNB, that is avoided at CPT. SA can use their 346 & operate a regional return, with an early morning 8am out of JNB & return to JNB for the night departure back to IAD or JFK.


It's already been made public: an 1800h local time arrival into CPT with a 2050h departure back to EWR, thus 2 hours 50 minutes on the ground in CPT. A beautiful schedule on both ends, actually.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:41 am

Judge1310 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Question, how long does UA plan on keeping their aircraft on the ground in CPT? Part of the larger expense that DL incurs is that 777 sitting for 12-15 hours at JNB, that is avoided at CPT. SA can use their 346 & operate a regional return, with an early morning 8am out of JNB & return to JNB for the night departure back to IAD or JFK.


It's already been made public: an 1800h local time arrival into CPT with a 2050h departure back to EWR, thus 2 hours 50 minutes on the ground in CPT. A beautiful schedule on both ends, actually.


Thank you, I missed it someplace upthread. You're correct, that is just about perfect, even if UA inbound is running late, they have about an hour cushion. I feel this add will experience a large success.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
Judge1310
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:43 am

RWA380 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Question, how long does UA plan on keeping their aircraft on the ground in CPT? Part of the larger expense that DL incurs is that 777 sitting for 12-15 hours at JNB, that is avoided at CPT. SA can use their 346 & operate a regional return, with an early morning 8am out of JNB & return to JNB for the night departure back to IAD or JFK.


It's already been made public: an 1800h local time arrival into CPT with a 2050h departure back to EWR, thus 2 hours 50 minutes on the ground in CPT. A beautiful schedule on both ends, actually.


Thank you, I missed it someplace upthread. You're correct, that is just about perfect, even if UA inbound is running late, they have about an hour cushion. I feel this add will experience a large success.


:bigthumbsup:
 
GRJGeorge
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:27 am

RWA380 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
1. South African already flies non stop from NYC to JNB.
2. No one flies non stop from North America to CPT.
3. They will attempt to cater to the leisure crowd with the northern winter seasonal CPT run. Not the business crowd.

And yes, CPT is much more marketable to American tourists than JNB.


This exactly, UA is only seasonal on this route & would not be a reliable business route. That being said, CPT has many wealthy residents (think DeBeers retirees), we have good family friends that live there & their entire family worked in the higher ranks for DeBeers S.A. over their collective lifetimes, One moved & retired to Colorado.

I bet UA will garner the premium heavy demand to the USA during their season, even if it's off season here. United may have another well thought out success story with the 787. I hope it goes full year soon.

Question, how long does UA plan on keeping their aircraft on the ground in CPT? Part of the larger expense that DL incurs is that 777 sitting for 12-15 hours at JNB, that is avoided at CPT. SA can use their 346 & operate a regional return, with an early morning 8am out of JNB & return to JNB for the night departure back to IAD or JFK.



DL arrives from ATL at JNB at 17:35, and departs again at 19:55...that's 2hour 20minutes turnaround. Maybe an hour or 2 longer in JNB's summer season.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:56 am

Well as a tourist I would go directly to Capetown over JNB any day.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5444
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:14 am

'Go where the competition isn't' may be a compelling rationalization but a tourist-focused flight (seasonal, just 3x weekly) may struggle to get the high average fares needed for a ULH flight. I guess we'll see.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:15 am

UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.
 
wn676
Posts: 1688
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:13 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.


UA is clearly catering to the high-yield niche tourist market. If they were going after an untapped business market, seasonal 3x weekly service wouldn’t be the best way to do it.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
evanb
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:23 pm

1) They were offered incentives by the Western Cape Tourism, Trade & Investment Promotion Agency.
2) JNB has three daily flights to the US (two are non-stop, one with a technical stop), CPT has none.
3) UA only have the equipment capacity at the moment for a short seasonal service which better suits CPT's leisure market versus JNB's more diverse market.
4) CPT doesn't have hot and high operational constraint, JNB does.
5) UA already has substantial capacity to JNB through codeshares (via FRA, MUC, LHR, ZRH, IAD, JFK). It has far more limited capacity through codeshares to CPT (only FRA and MUC, and much is seasonal, rest already via JNB).
 
evanb
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:28 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.


Agreed, although JNB dwarfs CPT for size and scale. That said, CPT is still a city of nearly 4 million people, with a number of large multinational businesses (e.g. Naspers, Old Mutual, Allan Gray) and many large national listed companies. It also has a lot of old money, both local and European immigrants.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2699
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:39 pm

wn676 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.


UA is clearly catering to the high-yield niche tourist market. If they were going after an untapped business market, seasonal 3x weekly service wouldn’t be the best way to do it.


I don't understand why people always just go tourism = low yield. You think those "typical" tourist just looking for lowest fare would have the time and money to visit South Africa?

For me, this is similar to why UA started SFO-PPT - niche high-yielding tourism. Alternatively, there's the seasonal HKG-CPT on CX also, fulfilling similar demand (albeit from Greater China instead of US).

At the end of the day, if all airline routes has to have massive business demands, no airlines would fly anywhere outside of a few megacities.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
xtra1
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:47 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:48 pm

I am sure it will work well for UA.
I do this trip from London, once a year. During the northern hemisphere winter season, BA has 3 direct flights a day from London to CPT (2 747s ex-LHR and a 777ex-LGW) All departing London at around the same time.
After arrival, the planes then sit idle at CPT for about 10 hours; then return to London.
(I am sure BA would have loved to use the A380 , if the airport was able to take that aircraft. )
The flights are jammed-packed and full of very high-yielding tourists/travellers.
Trying to buy a last-minute ticket from London is almost impossible ..and a return business class fare can be really exorbitant! (>£4000.00)
Last edited by xtra1 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
nycilley02
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Keep in mind that people can still easily use the flight to get to JNB via CPT. Connections on SAA are very reasonably priced. Personally, even if going to JNB from NYC, I would prefer to take the UA flight via CPT than the SA non stop to JNB on an ancient A340 with a J seat that is essentially a torture device.
 
evanb
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:26 pm

nycilley02 wrote:
Keep in mind that people can still easily use the flight to get to JNB via CPT. Connections on SAA are very reasonably priced. Personally, even if going to JNB from NYC, I would prefer to take the UA flight via CPT than the SA non stop to JNB on an ancient A340 with a J seat that is essentially a torture device.


Having flown both SA A346 and UA B789 several times in business class in the last year, I'd still chose SA. And I say this as a UA GS member.
 
77H
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:02 pm

wn676 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.


UA is clearly catering to the high-yield niche tourist market. If they were going after an untapped business market, seasonal 3x weekly service wouldn’t be the best way to do it.


Agreed. This add seems similar to their SFO-PPT in that regard.

77H
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:13 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.

They have said that publically that this route is basically for tourists
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:20 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
wn676 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
UA is not in the habit of starting ultra-long haul routes that are low-yielding (i.e., that cater primarily to tourists).

Therefore, UA probably thinks there is an untapped business market in CPT, even if smaller than in JNB. After all, CPT is still an important city, not some backwater.


UA is clearly catering to the high-yield niche tourist market. If they were going after an untapped business market, seasonal 3x weekly service wouldn’t be the best way to do it.


I don't understand why people always just go tourism = low yield. You think those "typical" tourist just looking for lowest fare would have the time and money to visit South Africa?

For me, this is similar to why UA started SFO-PPT - niche high-yielding tourism. Alternatively, there's the seasonal HKG-CPT on CX also, fulfilling similar demand (albeit from Greater China instead of US).

At the end of the day, if all airline routes has to have massive business demands, no airlines would fly anywhere outside of a few megacities.

Exactly. Low yielding tourists are taking Sun Country or Allegiant to Florida, not a South African/Polynesian/middle eastern/eastern European, ect (did I miss any others that a.netters always complain about) vacation.

There probably is some business that helped sweeten the deal though.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: Why did UA chose CPT over JNB?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:31 am

Exactly! That’s what Spirit/the other LCC’s are for. Sure, we may not expect yields to be out of the roof for this route, especially in the beginning as the route develops. This route won’t target those super price sensitive travelers who probably have never thought of going ro SA in the first place. It’s a niche route, and will have help from travel incentives, connections, people visiting family, and more. It will be great marketing for UA since they will again serve every continent. As long as United advertises the route in a unique way, I’m sure it will work out for them.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: opticalilyushin and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos