FriscoHeavy
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Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:19 pm

Since we all love aviation here, just thought I'd share a little anecdotal information, which appears to be echoed other places as well.

In regards to WN flying to/from/within Hawaii:

A couple of days ago, I was sitting at a cafe in Paris and struck up a conversation with the people next to me. They were from Honolulu. So naturally, being the aviation enthusiast I am, I asked how they got to Paris, what they thought about Southwest now being there, etc.

Long story short: They are THRILLED having Southwest in Hawaii to provide some competition to Hawaiian Air, especially on interisland flights. It was clear they felt that without WN, Hawaiian Air was able to charge pretty exorbitant fares between the islands.

This couple mentioned how happy the Hawaiian folks were to have Southwest flying there.

Again, for whatever it's worth, WN in Hawaii appears to be a good thing, which echos what the WN CEO recently said (that it's exceeding expectations).

This is not to bash Hawaiian Airlines, so if you are planning to do that, move along. I have great admiration for them, but just wanted to share some perspective on Southwest in Hawaii, directly from a couple of locals.
Whatever
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:19 pm

When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices. But the Hawaiian inter-island market is tough - distances (from the rest of the U.S.) and operating conditions (humidity and short stages) are factors that must be taken into consideration, and the model "go!" thought would work proved unsustainable. Today we're really back to just the Hawaiian flights as the main option.

The main issue for Southwest is going to be the cancellation effect: unless Southwest has a fleet of planes solely for inter-island operations, everything else will depend on a mainline flight - and a cancellation or delay will play havoc with those depending on Southwest to get to a neighboring island. If I were a resident who flew between islands frequently, I'd think twice before switching to Southwest from Hawaiian until Southwest can prove it can handle inter-island service reliably.
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:27 pm

It depends on who you talk to. I find an even split three ways: there are people like me who don’t care because we don’t travel interisland very often but do recognize that competition is good and when it comes time for a trip we’ll book based on our budget; there are the die-hard Hawaiian loyalists who are valued FF members or have family in the airline and vow not to fly Southwest to protect their precious; or those who do/want to travel often who welcome cheaper fares and recognize that if it wasn’t for WN they’d still be paying $120 ow to Maui so they support them. If you read commentary on Facebook or Yelp - you know, the not so knowledgeable, not so well-traveled - you’ll get a sense of this split.

I don’t think there’s anyone who doesn’t support Southwest being here because it means cheaper options for anybody so even the Die-by-HA person appreciates the $49 options that are now available.

Now, I will say with no authority but all the weight of my own opinion that no one is flying Southwest because they want to. They’re flying Southwest because they’re the cheaper option. The bag thing may sway a few people but everyone is tied to HA by credit card or family member so I’d be surprised if any local needed to pay for a bag - maybe a second bag and in that case WN comes out on top. Surfboards and musical instruments excluded, of course. My point is, I think Southwest needs to be careful with dynamic pricing because if they try to “right-size” fares to turn a profit, they may kill load factors. HA’s strength is their schedule - half-hourly flights to every island is a big pull, especially for frequent travelers like business people and government officials.

I’m curious - do any businesses or government entities favor exclusive travel on Hawaiian interisland? Or is everyone frew to book based on pricing and preference? Just wondering.
 
luv2cattlecall
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:29 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices. But the Hawaiian inter-island market is tough - distances (from the rest of the U.S.) and operating conditions (humidity and short stages) are factors that must be taken into consideration, and the model "go!" thought would work proved unsustainable. Today we're really back to just the Hawaiian flights as the main option.

The main issue for Southwest is going to be the cancellation effect: unless Southwest has a fleet of planes solely for inter-island operations, everything else will depend on a mainline flight - and a cancellation or delay will play havoc with those depending on Southwest to get to a neighboring island. If I were a resident who flew between islands frequently, I'd think twice before switching to Southwest from Hawaiian until Southwest can prove it can handle inter-island service reliably.


Instead of having a dedicated fleet, could they have a "buffer" of sorts with an extra aircraft at the islands?

Basically, they keep the same schedule, but on ai one time basis do an extra 1 way flight to the islands, park that plane, and constantly do a first in first out rotation. And if they have a plane stuck, they will have time to get an extra out there.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:32 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices. But the Hawaiian inter-island market is tough - distances (from the rest of the U.S.) and operating conditions (humidity and short stages) are factors that must be taken into consideration, and the model "go!" thought would work proved unsustainable. Today we're really back to just the Hawaiian flights as the main option.

The main issue for Southwest is going to be the cancellation effect: unless Southwest has a fleet of planes solely for inter-island operations, everything else will depend on a mainline flight - and a cancellation or delay will play havoc with those depending on Southwest to get to a neighboring island. If I were a resident who flew between islands frequently, I'd think twice before switching to Southwest from Hawaiian until Southwest can prove it can handle inter-island service reliably.


Instead of having a dedicated fleet, could they have a "buffer" of sorts with an extra aircraft at the islands?

Basically, they keep the same schedule, but on ai one time basis do an extra 1 way flight to the islands, park that plane, and constantly do a first in first out rotation. And if they have a plane stuck, they will have time to get an extra out there.


An interesting idea, but a route planner/crew scheduler will have to weigh in on the logistics of this operation. An "extra plane" translates as "one that isn't flying and making us money" to the bean counters, but because of the distance and logistics, this might be what they have in mind anyway.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:34 pm

Sadly, there is a reason I have the 'mcdu' bozo blocked.

I never said 'All' Hawaiians. The words 'All', 'Never', 'Always' and the like are rarely accurate.

The couple I spoke with travel frequently and shared their views with me, that's all. All I'm saying is that it's clear that the folks in Hawaii are more excited to have WN service than some on here want to give credit for. Some people on this site have really bashed WN flying in Hawaii and state that will fail.

Based on the comments from the WN CEO, plus this information from Hawaiian residents (who also spoke in general about the people of Hawaii), Southwest will likely prevail in Hawaii long term. Note, I didn't say Hawaiian Airlines was going bust, but that I think both airlines will be successful and good for each other.

The folks I spoke with were tired and irritated that fares between islands were oftentimes more expensive than from HI to the West Coast.

I hope WN continues to exceed expectations and that Hawaiian Airlines also does well long term.
Whatever
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:39 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Since we all love aviation here, just thought I'd share a little anecdotal information, which appears to be echoed other places as well.

In regards to WN flying to/from/within Hawaii:

A couple of days ago, I was sitting at a cafe in Paris and struck up a conversation with the people next to me. They were from Honolulu. So naturally, being the aviation enthusiast I am, I asked how they got to Paris, what they thought about Southwest now being there, etc.

Long story short: They are THRILLED having Southwest in Hawaii to provide some competition to Hawaiian Air, especially on interisland flights. It was clear they felt that without WN, Hawaiian Air was able to charge pretty exorbitant fares between the islands.

This couple mentioned how happy the Hawaiian folks were to have Southwest flying there.

Again, for whatever it's worth, WN in Hawaii appears to be a good thing, which echos what the WN CEO recently said (that it's exceeding expectations).

This is not to bash Hawaiian Airlines, so if you are planning to do that, move along. I have great admiration for them, but just wanted to share some perspective on Southwest in Hawaii, directly from a couple of locals.


It’s been echoed here many times as well. Your experience is the same as mine in countles interactions with local people all around O’ahu and Maui since January, and I hear of nearly identical experiences from friends, family and coworkers.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mcdu
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:45 pm

And If this passenger is angry at WN would a fair title for the thread be “California Residents Appear to be unhappy with Southwest”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/southwest-passenger-kicked-off-flight-for-making-vodka-joke/ar-AABlHLp
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:08 pm

Competition is good for Hawaiians. Hawaiian has had a monopoly for awhile now.
 
WN732
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:12 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Sadly, there is a reason I have the 'mcdu' bozo blocked.

I never said 'All' Hawaiians. The words 'All', 'Never', 'Always' and the like are rarely accurate.

The couple I spoke with travel frequently and shared their views with me, that's all. All I'm saying is that it's clear that the folks in Hawaii are more excited to have WN service than some on here want to give credit for. Some people on this site have really bashed WN flying in Hawaii and state that will fail.

Based on the comments from the WN CEO, plus this information from Hawaiian residents (who also spoke in general about the people of Hawaii), Southwest will likely prevail in Hawaii long term. Note, I didn't say Hawaiian Airlines was going bust, but that I think both airlines will be successful and good for each other.

The folks I spoke with were tired and irritated that fares between islands were oftentimes more expensive than from HI to the West Coast.

I hope WN continues to exceed expectations and that Hawaiian Airlines also does well long term.


I totally agree with this. Hawaiian has weathered the storm with Alaska, and before that Aloha. They've also seen Allegiant, VX, and a few others come and go. There's definitely a market for WN. WN isn't for everyone, but that's why we have a free market. Even if you don't fly WN to/from the islands, you still benefitted from them being there. I will never understand some of the sentiment on this site that they have no place or a vast majority of HI residents disparingly resent them from starting service.

I personally enjoy the fact that they are now an option, and they have put their money where their mouth is so to speak when it comes to Hawaii. We will only see more and more there in the future, regardless of what folks on Anet say.
 
a/c dxer
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:14 pm

People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:22 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices.


Your history is backwards. go! began service in June 2006. Aloha went out of business in March 2008, largely because of the undercutting done by go!.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:00 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Sadly, there is a reason I have the 'mcdu' bozo blocked.

I never said 'All' Hawaiians. The words 'All', 'Never', 'Always' and the like are rarely accurate.

The couple I spoke with travel frequently and shared their views with me, that's all. All I'm saying is that it's clear that the folks in Hawaii are more excited to have WN service than some on here want to give credit for. Some people on this site have really bashed WN flying in Hawaii and state that will fail.

Based on the comments from the WN CEO, plus this information from Hawaiian residents (who also spoke in general about the people of Hawaii), Southwest will likely prevail in Hawaii long term. Note, I didn't say Hawaiian Airlines was going bust, but that I think both airlines will be successful and good for each other.

The folks I spoke with were tired and irritated that fares between islands were oftentimes more expensive than from HI to the West Coast.

I hope WN continues to exceed expectations and that Hawaiian Airlines also does well long term.

Still, 'mcdu' has a point: you discussed with ONE family from Hawaii, in Paris (so there are great chances they are well verse to traveling), and created a theory from there.
Maybe you are right, maybe it was just anecdotal; who knows, your "sampling size" is not representative.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:05 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices. But the Hawaiian inter-island market is tough - distances (from the rest of the U.S.) and operating conditions (humidity and short stages) are factors that must be taken into consideration, and the model "go!" thought would work proved unsustainable. Today we're really back to just the Hawaiian flights as the main option.

The main issue for Southwest is going to be the cancellation effect: unless Southwest has a fleet of planes solely for inter-island operations, everything else will depend on a mainline flight - and a cancellation or delay will play havoc with those depending on Southwest to get to a neighboring island. If I were a resident who flew between islands frequently, I'd think twice before switching to Southwest from Hawaiian until Southwest can prove it can handle inter-island service reliably.


For folks who are looking for low prices - IF they can get the $49 rates on Southwest - that's great. As a corporate travel manager - I have no reason to consider Southwest. Hawaiian has been a tremendous partner and I wouldn't consider switching my business. And there's not enough frequency. When a meeting ends early it's pretty easy to stand-by and get out on an earlier flight. Cant' do that with Southwest.

Bottom line is - I'm not going to ditch my partner of many years because there's a new face in town. No disrespect to Southwest - but I'm loyal to Hawaiian.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:08 pm

a/c dxer wrote:
People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.


I've never seen it either. Hawaiian's pricing is based on time of year, day of the week, time of day. You want to fly on peak times on Monday and Friday? You want to fly at peak times on a holiday weekend?
You're going to pay more. What I have seen is when someone can't get the lowest price they complain about price gouging.
 
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stl07
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:09 pm

a/c dxer wrote:
People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.

Exactly what I have been thinking during all this fanfare.

Honestly, I think the greatest threat to all of this is when the ferries start back up
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:27 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Sadly, there is a reason I have the 'mcdu' bozo blocked.

I never said 'All' Hawaiians. The words 'All', 'Never', 'Always' and the like are rarely accurate.

The couple I spoke with travel frequently and shared their views with me, that's all. All I'm saying is that it's clear that the folks in Hawaii are more excited to have WN service than some on here want to give credit for. Some people on this site have really bashed WN flying in Hawaii and state that will fail.

Based on the comments from the WN CEO, plus this information from Hawaiian residents (who also spoke in general about the people of Hawaii), Southwest will likely prevail in Hawaii long term. Note, I didn't say Hawaiian Airlines was going bust, but that I think both airlines will be successful and good for each other.

The folks I spoke with were tired and irritated that fares between islands were oftentimes more expensive than from HI to the West Coast.

I hope WN continues to exceed expectations and that Hawaiian Airlines also does well long term.

Still, 'mcdu' has a point: you discussed with ONE family from Hawaii, in Paris (so there are great chances they are well verse to traveling), and created a theory from there.
Maybe you are right, maybe it was just anecdotal; who knows, your "sampling size" is not representative.


Like they’re one to talk about anecdotal experience and small sample size as evidence here. :roll:

This has been discussed in other threads.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:53 pm

I don't think that anyone doubted that Hawaiians enjoy having choices when it comes to interisland travel. I do not see locals being happy if HA begins to struggle since it is one of the largest employers in Hawaii.

The idea that Southwest was going to come in and take over the market and drive HA out of business was never more than a dream.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:56 pm

Wow, when two competitors with very loyal frequent fliers compete, the comments are snarky. WN brings their own FF base. Assuming there is enough hotel/housing, they will do well. At some point the MAX will be ETOPS ready and we should expect more flights to Hawaii and thus more inter island flying.

I know people excited about this option. I personally look forward to flying WN, AS, HA, and in particular two that Don't apply: B6 and DL. Credit cards and other stuff does keep people loyal.

I think enough people will fly WN. Same with HA. I do know HA for LAX to a connecting island charged a heafty premium. I would book to HNL and book a separate flight to the new island and pair at check in (I always saved hundreds).

Loyalty is worth something. Don't make it worth my time to find a work around.

Lightsaber
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737max8
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:24 pm

Fortunately people speak with their wallets and WN is filling up planes every day so someone is happy.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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tomaheath
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:24 pm

In September I’m flying DL from the mainland HA and WN inter island then AS back to the mainland then DL back to the east coast can’t wait.
 
san88
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:31 pm

I’ve worked 20+ Inter-island flights as cabin crew since May. Locals are very thankful we are in the market and express gratitude to us EVERY leg. Island hopping is the easiest flying compared to the Texas two-step or California shuffle. Mostly leisure passengers and very high family travelers on those flights. There’s been some minor kinks with delays due to aircraft maintenance or staffing. If WN can work them out, long term they will be fine and provide a competitive, reliable alternative service in the market.
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Passedv1
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:51 am

a/c dxer wrote:
People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.


I'm not going to argue if HA was gouging or not since one man's gouge is another man's fair price.

Being from Hawaii, I can tell you that unless you have some personal connection to HA, you are generally thrilled with WN being in the market.

Pre-Go, those of us that are old enough to remember the du-opoly that HA was a part of with AQ and how they would use their combinrd political clout to keep 3rd carriers out. Mid-Pac, Discover, Mahalo were all strangled out of existence by actions that had they not had friends in high places (especially Gov. John Waihee and Sen Dan Inoyue) they would not have been able to get away with half the anti-trust violations they got away with.

This duopoly is what was a big cause of the continued practice today of local people traveling so much to Las Vegas. In the 1980's-2000's, it was cheaper to go HNL-LAS, then it was to go from HNL-OGG. It started the still current trend for family gatherings to happen in Las Vegas instead of visiting family on the outer-islands.

This time around, HA has not been as "aggresive" in pricing as they had before making the contrast less then when go entered the inter-island market...but there is definitely no hesitation for the majority of local people to embrace/welcome a newcomer.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:03 am

As a person who grew up around Aloha/Hawaiian/MidPac/Mahalo/go! and other entities that tried to start up interisland service in the state, I would say that the introduction of Southwest has been as much a relief for those who felt gouged on Hawaiian as much as curiosity as to how Southwest service interisland is different than that of Hawaiian. I will say that, so far, both airlines have basically stayed in their lanes when it comes to using their sharp marketing elbows on each other. Neither of them seem to, yet, directly attack each other in the various forms of media they are seen - newspapers, internet, TV, etc.

WIth that said, a couple of caveats of comparing the service now to the future. First, Southwest ain't flying to all the main destinations, yet. They did announce that the would start serving Hilo later this year or early next year. Now anyone who is a resident of Hawaii knows that, right now Hawaiian is the only airline that flies interisland to/from Hilo. So it will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out as Hilo residents have been begging for better choices over Hawaiian. Second, keep in mind that Southwest is not playing the "tail to tail" game with Hawaiian, in which a Hawaiian flight at a certain time has a corresponding Southwest flight at the same time, all throughout the day. The only two that was able to really play that game was Aloha and Hawaiian. Will Southwest ever play in that game? Well, maybe in certain interisland markets at certain times but I think they are also looking at the longer game and know that it would not be in their best interests to "go after' Hawaiian like go! went after both of them to try and knock them out. Consider this a trial run, that could easily convert into "the new normal" if Southwest and Hawaiian are able to compete in the interisland market without trying to kill each other - like how Hawaiian and Aloha went at it in the '80's up until the mid '90's.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:00 am

It's one thing to fly interisland in Hawaii. And another thing to do it reliably. We haven't as of yet seen Southwest deal with any Adversity. Wait until an airplane goes AOG? And we'll See what the recovery time is and what southwest's recovery plans are.. No Planes based there? No Recovery! And it's not an IF, It's a when.. But We'll see won't we?
 
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RWA380
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:10 am

jaybird wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
When "go!" arrived in the islands years ago, after the demise of Aloha, the locals were happy that competition was there, offering lower prices. But the Hawaiian inter-island market is tough - distances (from the rest of the U.S.) and operating conditions (humidity and short stages) are factors that must be taken into consideration, and the model "go!" thought would work proved unsustainable. Today we're really back to just the Hawaiian flights as the main option.

The main issue for Southwest is going to be the cancellation effect: unless Southwest has a fleet of planes solely for inter-island operations, everything else will depend on a mainline flight - and a cancellation or delay will play havoc with those depending on Southwest to get to a neighboring island. If I were a resident who flew between islands frequently, I'd think twice before switching to Southwest from Hawaiian until Southwest can prove it can handle inter-island service reliably.


For folks who are looking for low prices - IF they can get the $49 rates on Southwest - that's great. As a corporate travel manager - I have no reason to consider Southwest. Hawaiian has been a tremendous partner and I wouldn't consider switching my business. And there's not enough frequency. When a meeting ends early it's pretty easy to stand-by and get out on an earlier flight. Cant' do that with Southwest.

Bottom line is - I'm not going to ditch my partner of many years because there's a new face in town. No disrespect to Southwest - but I'm loyal to Hawaiian.
t

Most of my largest corporate accounts used HA & bought coupon books, AQ was our fly/drive airline r/t air & 1 day compact car at dollar for $99.00 r.t.p.p.d.o, Even then AQ wasn't considered quite that of HA, there is indeed a loyalty to HA that exists with the top frequent flyers in the state & that will continue surely no matter the new comer.

As a corporate manager with Regal travel & later with American Express, WN was not even needed for fare comparisons, so the subject never came up in booking any companies travel, all of our accounts refused WN. I am sure for your top flyers convenience is paramount to price. HA treats their top flyers well.
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Antarius
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:25 am

jaybird wrote:
a/c dxer wrote:
People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.


I've never seen it either. Hawaiian's pricing is based on time of year, day of the week, time of day. You want to fly on peak times on Monday and Friday? You want to fly at peak times on a holiday weekend?
You're going to pay more. What I have seen is when someone can't get the lowest price they complain about price gouging.


If this is the case, the HA has nothing to worry about.

So I dont understand why there is so much hate from some posters here. It's not like HA is being replaced. Competition is good for consumers.
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grbauc
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:32 am

KanaHawaii wrote:
As a person who grew up around Aloha/Hawaiian/MidPac/Mahalo/go! and other entities that tried to start up interisland service in the state, I would say that the introduction of Southwest has been as much a relief for those who felt gouged on Hawaiian as much as curiosity as to how Southwest service interisland is different than that of Hawaiian. I will say that, so far, both airlines have basically stayed in their lanes when it comes to using their sharp marketing elbows on each other. Neither of them seem to, yet, directly attack each other in the various forms of media they are seen - newspapers, internet, TV, etc.

WIth that said, a couple of caveats of comparing the service now to the future. First, Southwest ain't flying to all the main destinations, yet. They did announce that the would start serving Hilo later this year or early next year. Now anyone who is a resident of Hawaii knows that, right now Hawaiian is the only airline that flies interisland to/from Hilo. So it will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out as Hilo residents have been begging for better choices over Hawaiian. Second, keep in mind that Southwest is not playing the "tail to tail" game with Hawaiian, in which a Hawaiian flight at a certain time has a corresponding Southwest flight at the same time, all throughout the day. The only two that was able to really play that game was Aloha and Hawaiian. Will Southwest ever play in that game? Well, maybe in certain interisland markets at certain times but I think they are also looking at the longer game and know that it would not be in their best interests to "go after' Hawaiian like go! went after both of them to try and knock them out. Consider this a trial run, that could easily convert into "the new normal" if Southwest and Hawaiian are able to compete in the interisland market without trying to kill each other - like how Hawaiian and Aloha went at it in the '80's up until the mid '90's.



I'd imagine WN will mostly play the same way has your describing. However WN is 800 LB gorilla I don't really think they will worry much about Hawaiian they make the game on there terms.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:22 am

Antarius wrote:
jaybird wrote:
a/c dxer wrote:
People act like Hawaiian was gouging people on interisland flights. I never saw that.


I've never seen it either. Hawaiian's pricing is based on time of year, day of the week, time of day. You want to fly on peak times on Monday and Friday? You want to fly at peak times on a holiday weekend?
You're going to pay more. What I have seen is when someone can't get the lowest price they complain about price gouging.


If this is the case, the HA has nothing to worry about.

So I dont understand why there is so much hate from some posters here. It's not like HA is being replaced. Competition is good for consumers.


Because this is Airliners.net. If there is anything my my 5 months in Hawaii so far has shown me, the usual talking points about brand loyalty and negative attitudes towards mainlanders and outside companies etc. are exaggerated.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:17 am

obelau24 wrote:
I’m curious - do any businesses or government entities favor exclusive travel on Hawaiian interisland? Or is everyone frew to book based on pricing and preference? Just wondering.


I don't know about business or state government, but the federal government (including military) uses a program run by GSA called the City Pair Program. Every year, airlines bid fares for particular city pairs. These are fully flexible, refundable tickets booking in Y class for last seat availability; airlines can offer a second lower fare with restricted availability. Currently HA has the contract for HNL to OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH, JHM, MKK, and LNY. This makes sense since WN wasn't in the market when the FY2019 contracts were awarded. FY2020 awards haven't been announced yet and I don't know the timing of the bids relative to WN's entry into the market so I don't know if WN will be in consideration for any FY2020 city pair contracts in Hawaii.

Having the contract doesn't guarantee every federal government traveler will use the contract carrier. They're supposed to, but if the contract carrier flights don't fit the mission need the traveler can go elsewhere. For example, if someone was traveling from HNL to OGG for a meeting at noon and HA was already sold out on the earlier morning flights and WN had space, they could use WN since the alternative would be to fly the previous day and incur extra cost for hotel. If HA had room for the evening return flight, the traveler would still be expected to use HA for the return (city pair contract fares are all priced as one way).

WN would have an easier time getting federal government travelers now on some of their mainland flights. For example, OGG-SJC and OGG-OAK don't have city pair awards in FY2019 so travelers could choose WN (OGG-SFO does have an award this year, on AS).
 
Max Q
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:11 am

Well, Aloha and Hawaiian beat each other up for years chasing market share in the islands


They struggled for years before Aloha shut
down then HA started a steady resurgence to become a strong, profitable operation


I don’t think the inter-island traffic is sufficient for two major airlines


One will have to exit
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:02 am

I think WN has the legs to stay in the interisland market, and took the initiative to do so that AS didn't. I've switched my interisland flying to WN and let my Premier Club membership expire... don't need the "free bag" or the bad coffee any more.
 
Bazooka
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:18 am

Thank you Southwest! We finally have a choice again!
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:55 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
jaybird wrote:

I've never seen it either. Hawaiian's pricing is based on time of year, day of the week, time of day. You want to fly on peak times on Monday and Friday? You want to fly at peak times on a holiday weekend?
You're going to pay more. What I have seen is when someone can't get the lowest price they complain about price gouging.


If this is the case, the HA has nothing to worry about.

So I dont understand why there is so much hate from some posters here. It's not like HA is being replaced. Competition is good for consumers.


Because this is Airliners.net. If there is anything my my 5 months in Hawaii so far has shown me, the usual talking points about brand loyalty and negative attitudes towards mainlanders and outside companies etc. are exaggerated.


The reduction of the "negative attitude" toward mainland companies coming to Hawaii has abated, quite a bit, over the last few years. What you are seeing now is a new tolerance for outside companies to come to Hawaii and take on established brands in the state. This was not always the case. Going back just a short 18 years ago, when Hawaiian and Aloha were being courted for a merger by Gregg Brennemann and TurnWorks, the locals then came out pretty much against the deal, filling up legislative hearings just to express their displeasure that an outsider was coming in. You can also look at how the NextEra buyout of Hawaiian Electric was both drawn out, and eventually killed off by the state's Public Utilities Commission precisely because that "outsider discrimination".

But like I said, a lot has changed. The legislators and government officials who typically bark at any company coming over were standing right next to Kelly at the announcement of the start of service to Hawaii. As a lifelong resident, this change of tone has been nothing less than a monster sea-change in Hawaii mentality toward mainland companies coming to the state.
 
Antarius
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:00 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:

If this is the case, the HA has nothing to worry about.

So I dont understand why there is so much hate from some posters here. It's not like HA is being replaced. Competition is good for consumers.


Because this is Airliners.net. If there is anything my my 5 months in Hawaii so far has shown me, the usual talking points about brand loyalty and negative attitudes towards mainlanders and outside companies etc. are exaggerated.


The reduction of the "negative attitude" toward mainland companies coming to Hawaii has abated, quite a bit, over the last few years. What you are seeing now is a new tolerance for outside companies to come to Hawaii and take on established brands in the state. This was not always the case. Going back just a short 18 years ago, when Hawaiian and Aloha were being courted for a merger by Gregg Brennemann and TurnWorks, the locals then came out pretty much against the deal, filling up legislative hearings just to express their displeasure that an outsider was coming in. You can also look at how the NextEra buyout of Hawaiian Electric was both drawn out, and eventually killed off by the state's Public Utilities Commission precisely because that "outsider discrimination".

But like I said, a lot has changed. The legislators and government officials who typically bark at any company coming over were standing right next to Kelly at the announcement of the start of service to Hawaii. As a lifelong resident, this change of tone has been nothing less than a monster sea-change in Hawaii mentality toward mainland companies coming to the state.


Thanks for the insight. Interesting
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHTYYZ DEN DOH BLR MAA TXL MEX
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:06 pm

Max Q wrote:
Well, Aloha and Hawaiian beat each other up for years chasing market share in the islands


They struggled for years before Aloha shut
down then HA started a steady resurgence to become a strong, profitable operation


I don’t think the inter-island traffic is sufficient for two major airlines


One will have to exit


So that the remaining one can return to charging insane fares? Please not! Competition is good and I would prefer even more airlines to join in. Fares in Hawaii are among the highest in the world and the one thing that can bring them down is competition.

In Europe and mainland USA there are many more airlines competing with each other and they can afford to charge far lower ticket prices on flights of similar length and demand. And still they manage to make a profit on those flights. Why can't the same thing be done in Hawaii?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:24 pm

jaybird wrote:
For folks who are looking for low prices - IF they can get the $49 rates on Southwest - that's great. As a corporate travel manager - I have no reason to consider Southwest. Hawaiian has been a tremendous partner and I wouldn't consider switching my business. And there's not enough frequency. When a meeting ends early it's pretty easy to stand-by and get out on an earlier flight. Cant' do that with Southwest.

Bottom line is - I'm not going to ditch my partner of many years because there's a new face in town. No disrespect to Southwest - but I'm loyal to Hawaiian.


And still you profit from the presence of Southwest even if you don't fly them. After all, because Southwest has those cheap flights Hawaiian has to lower their fares as well in order to remain competitive. They might not be as cheap as Southwest, but also not as expensive as they would have been if Southwest wasn't there.

After all, there's always people who don't care when they fly and just want the lowest price. If that lowest price is only available on a certain flight, they take that flight.

Hypothetical situation: Suppose a certain route is served by two airlines. Airline A serves the route 3x daily and charges $ 100 for a flight. Airline B serves it 1x weekly and charges $ 50 for a flight. Which airline will you fly? If you need to be at that destination at a certain day and time, most likely you end up with airline A and pay the high fare. In that case airline B is useless because it doesn't have a flight at the day and time you want to fly. However not everybody is like that. If you want to get to that same destination and you don't care when, you end up with airline B. You might check out a certain day, you find only 3 flights on airline A with a high fare. Then you check the next day. You see those same 3 flights on airline A but also that one flight on airline B. So you end up flying one day later than you first checked because you got a lower fare.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7556
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:47 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Well, Aloha and Hawaiian beat each other up for years chasing market share in the islands


They struggled for years before Aloha shut
down then HA started a steady resurgence to become a strong, profitable operation


I don’t think the inter-island traffic is sufficient for two major airlines


One will have to exit


So that the remaining one can return to charging insane fares? Please not! Competition is good and I would prefer even more airlines to join in. Fares in Hawaii are among the highest in the world and the one thing that can bring them down is competition.

In Europe and mainland USA there are many more airlines competing with each other and they can afford to charge far lower ticket prices on flights of similar length and demand. And still they manage to make a profit on those flights. Why can't the same thing be done in Hawaii?



What do you think will happen to the fares
if one of the major players is driven out ?


Europe and the Mainland USA have hundreds of millions more people, there’s
a much bigger pie to share


That’s not the case in the Sandwich isles, it’s a relatively tiny market and there’s not room for two major carriers
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1561
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Re: Hawaiian Residents Appear to Enjoy Having Southwest Competition

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:06 am

Max Q wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Well, Aloha and Hawaiian beat each other up for years chasing market share in the islands


They struggled for years before Aloha shut
down then HA started a steady resurgence to become a strong, profitable operation


I don’t think the inter-island traffic is sufficient for two major airlines


One will have to exit


So that the remaining one can return to charging insane fares? Please not! Competition is good and I would prefer even more airlines to join in. Fares in Hawaii are among the highest in the world and the one thing that can bring them down is competition.

In Europe and mainland USA there are many more airlines competing with each other and they can afford to charge far lower ticket prices on flights of similar length and demand. And still they manage to make a profit on those flights. Why can't the same thing be done in Hawaii?



What do you think will happen to the fares
if one of the major players is driven out ?


Europe and the Mainland USA have hundreds of millions more people, there’s
a much bigger pie to share


That’s not the case in the Sandwich isles, it’s a relatively tiny market and there’s not room for two major carriers



We don’t know that yet, Max Q. At this point, you are just hypothesizing whether or not there is room for two major carriers.

Please state that it’s your opinion and not as fact.
Whatever

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