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Morgenstern1234
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am

Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:07 am

Just curious; are there are any significant holes in Cathay Pacific’s europe network? Because from what I see at least all the major cities in Western Europe are covered.. only cities I in Europe I think CX could profitability add are Vienna, Munich and Moscow
 
pmartin
Posts: 60
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:15 am

https://www.anna.aero/2019/03/06/100-ro ... p-service/

For Hong Kong, the largest unserved markets in Europe are, in order:
- Geneva
- Berlin
- Prague
- Lisbon
- Birmingham
Which are also among to top 10 unserved markets from Hong Kong. Add Stockholm, Vienna and Dusseldorf, which lost their direct links. And you probably have the contenders.
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:40 am

WAW unless LO manages to do it first.
CL CRJ9, W6 A320
 
Morgenstern1234
Topic Author
Posts: 76
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:53 am

Berlin maybe after the new airport is complete, Geneva is just too small, Prague maybe but yields will be low be its a cheap tourist destination, Lisbon long shot no East Asian airline flies there, Birmingham it’s too close to London.
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:56 am

CX aggressively expanded in Europe over the last few years with LGW, MAN, DUB, MAD, ZRH, BCN, BRU among others to their network. We've also seen DUS and CPH and Moscow (SVO/DMV??) axed when it was still served with the Airbus A340.

MUC- HKG is covered with LH and I'm not sure if it could sustain an extra flight. CX have added frequencies to both CDG and FRA recently. We've also seen BCN becoming a year round destination with the Airbus A350 and with MAD going 5x weekly with 3 Class B77W, though there are plans to deploy the Airbus A350-1000 with MAN already being served by it. Also, a recent CAPA Analysis stated that HKG-DUB is very encouraging and LHR seeing the Airbus A350 soon. IST could potentially be an addition in the future and perhaps HEL to compliment AY's 10x weekly HEL-HKG service.
 
Morgenstern1234
Topic Author
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:57 am

emuwarveteran wrote:
WAW unless LO manages to do it first.

Only realistic destination in Eastern Europe for CX is Moscow, Moscow is 16 million+ high income city, should be resumed..
 
Morgenstern1234
Topic Author
Posts: 76
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:01 pm

J343 wrote:
CX aggressively expanded in Europe over the last few years with LGW, MAN, DUB, MAD, ZRH, BCN, BRU among others to their network. We've also seen DUS and CPH and Moscow (SVO/DMV??) axed when it was still served with the Airbus A340.

MUC- HKG is covered with LH and I'm not sure if it could sustain an extra flight. CX have added frequencies to both CDG and FRA recently. We've also seen BCN becoming a year round destination with the Airbus A350 and with MAD going 5x weekly with 3 Class B77W, though there are plans to deploy the Airbus A350-1000 with MAN already being served by it. Also, a recent CAPA Analysis stated that HKG-DUB is very encouraging and LHR seeing the Airbus A350 soon. IST could potentially be an addition in the future and perhaps HEL to compliment AY's 10x weekly HEL-HKG service.

Agree Istanbul and Moscow DME Should be next, wierd how SQ flies to these to cities but CX doesn’t.
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 pm

It’s good to see the Asian carriers in a position to explore new routes in Europe after years of stagnation at the hands of the ME3 in particular.

The A350 has certainly helped to make some of these routes more appealing, so hopefully things continue to strengthen for them.
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:32 pm

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
J343 wrote:
CX aggressively expanded in Europe over the last few years with LGW, MAN, DUB, MAD, ZRH, BCN, BRU among others to their network. We've also seen DUS and CPH and Moscow (SVO/DMV??) axed when it was still served with the Airbus A340.

MUC- HKG is covered with LH and I'm not sure if it could sustain an extra flight. CX have added frequencies to both CDG and FRA recently. We've also seen BCN becoming a year round destination with the Airbus A350 and with MAD going 5x weekly with 3 Class B77W, though there are plans to deploy the Airbus A350-1000 with MAN already being served by it. Also, a recent CAPA Analysis stated that HKG-DUB is very encouraging and LHR seeing the Airbus A350 soon. IST could potentially be an addition in the future and perhaps HEL to compliment AY's 10x weekly HEL-HKG service.

Agree Istanbul and Moscow DME Should be next, wierd how SQ flies to these to cities but CX doesn’t.


Indeed but saying that, there are routes that CX serves that SQ does not i.e DUB, MAD, BRU and LGW. SQ only serves BCN 1x weekly whereas CX serves BCN 4-5x weekly if I'm not mistaken. Also SQ and TG has a strong advantage in Europe due to their Star Alliance partner, the LH group. I guess the same can be said about JL and CX in North America with AA.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:56 pm

J343 wrote:
Indeed but saying that, there are routes that CX serves that SQ does not i.e DUB, MAD, BRU and LGW. SQ only serves BCN 1x weekly whereas CX serves BCN 4-5x weekly if I'm not mistaken. Also SQ and TG has a strong advantage in Europe due to their Star Alliance partner, the LH group. I guess the same can be said about JL and CX in North America with AA.


BCN is serve by SQ 2/wk (Thu/Sun ex-SIN) non-stop plus 3/wk (Tue/Wed/Sat ex-SIN) via MXP. For CX (as of this week) it's 4/wk on 35K.

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Agree Istanbul and Moscow DME Should be next, wierd how SQ flies to these to cities but CX doesn’t.


SQ had flown to IST for years, though. Plus now that TK is in *A, that helps beyond connection at IST.

Meanwhile, HKG-IST is, and will be, dominated by TK. There's no point for CX to try to fight that. IST is not particularly a large business market ex-HKG anyway.

For Moscow - the ups and downs of Russian economy just doesn't help. Plus there's SU on that market anyway, so it's not like it's totally unserved.

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Berlin maybe after the new airport is complete, Geneva is just too small, Prague maybe but yields will be low be its a cheap tourist destination, Lisbon long shot no East Asian airline flies there, Birmingham it’s too close to London.


Not saying it's a high yield market, but PRG is certainly not "cheap" from your average HK tourist standpoint.

For LIS - also keep in mind that Lisbon airport is close to capacity as-is.

J343 wrote:
Indeed but saying that, there are routes that CX serves that SQ does not i.e DUB, MAD, BRU and LGW. SQ only serves BCN 1x weekly whereas CX serves BCN 4-5x weekly if I'm not mistaken. Also SQ and TG has a strong advantage in Europe due to their Star Alliance partner, the LH group. I guess the same can be said about JL and CX in North America with AA.


CX do partner with LH Group via codeshare as well, mainly to fill in that huge hole in Central Europe, especially after the demise of Air Berlin.

On topic - for me, the current "hole" would be VIE and GVA. MUC is good as-is with LH on that route.
 
raylee67
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:50 pm

The immediate ones coming to mind are
Geneva - they can start with winter seasonal flights, just like how they test out Barcelona and Christchurch
Birmingham - there is always some core support for UK flights
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:14 pm

J343 wrote:
CX aggressively expanded in Europe over the last few years with LGW, MAN, DUB, MAD, ZRH, BCN, BRU among others to their network.

We've also seen BCN becoming a year round destination with the Airbus A350 and with MAD going 5x weekly with 3 Class B77W, though there are plans to deploy the Airbus A350-1000 with MAN already being served by it.


This summer MAD is daily, BCN is 4x weekly.

MAD gets HKG-LatAm traffic.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:49 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
J343 wrote:
Indeed but saying that, there are routes that CX serves that SQ does not i.e DUB, MAD, BRU and LGW. SQ only serves BCN 1x weekly whereas CX serves BCN 4-5x weekly if I'm not mistaken. Also SQ and TG has a strong advantage in Europe due to their Star Alliance partner, the LH group. I guess the same can be said about JL and CX in North America with AA.


BCN is serve by SQ 2/wk (Thu/Sun ex-SIN) non-stop plus 3/wk (Tue/Wed/Sat ex-SIN) via MXP. For CX (as of this week) it's 4/wk on 35K.

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Agree Istanbul and Moscow DME Should be next, wierd how SQ flies to these to cities but CX doesn’t.


SQ had flown to IST for years, though. Plus now that TK is in *A, that helps beyond connection at IST.

Meanwhile, HKG-IST is, and will be, dominated by TK. There's no point for CX to try to fight that. IST is not particularly a large business market ex-HKG anyway.

For Moscow - the ups and downs of Russian economy just doesn't help. Plus there's SU on that market anyway, so it's not like it's totally unserved.

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Berlin maybe after the new airport is complete, Geneva is just too small, Prague maybe but yields will be low be its a cheap tourist destination, Lisbon long shot no East Asian airline flies there, Birmingham it’s too close to London.


Not saying it's a high yield market, but PRG is certainly not "cheap" from your average HK tourist standpoint.

For LIS - also keep in mind that Lisbon airport is close to capacity as-is.

J343 wrote:
Indeed but saying that, there are routes that CX serves that SQ does not i.e DUB, MAD, BRU and LGW. SQ only serves BCN 1x weekly whereas CX serves BCN 4-5x weekly if I'm not mistaken. Also SQ and TG has a strong advantage in Europe due to their Star Alliance partner, the LH group. I guess the same can be said about JL and CX in North America with AA.


CX do partner with LH Group via codeshare as well, mainly to fill in that huge hole in Central Europe, especially after the demise of Air Berlin.

On topic - for me, the current "hole" would be VIE and GVA. MUC is good as-is with LH on that route.



Thank you for the correction! I am frankly very surprised BCN has been upgraded to the A35K. Is there a reason why CX can't go daily with the A359? Also, perhaps 3-4x weekly is sustainable for VIE with the A359.
 
MHG
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:26 am

Well, the fact that they dropped DUS and MOW has likely something to do with the fact that 1) the start of the routes happened exactly when they went into serious financial troubles and 2) their A340´s were not really suited for these routes (too inefficient and outdated compared to competition).
When the A350´s became availlable shortly after commencing their DUS flights CX sent them to DUS but quickly decided they needed them elsewhere (where higher revenue was to be generated instantly). General wisdom is that a new route needs 1-2 years to mature and they were not yet at this point.

In comparison SQ started DUS slightly earlier - and they did it right away with the most suitable aircraft type (A350) - and they serve DUS uninterrupted since which gives them a huge advantage over CX in case the latter decides to return eventually.
... and the winner is: SQ

Berlin - in theory - could be potentially interesting for CX but definitely not before the new airport opens. SQ serves Berlin through Scoot which tells something about the yields they expect to generate.
So, BER might not be that much in CX´s focus ...
Maybe CX decides to eventually change their strategy with KA and let them do such routes aside from HK Mainland/SE Asia routes ...

I don´t think there are many routes in Europe left that are viable for CX under their current financial conditions/set up/strategy/contracts with other carriers (especially the "improving" relationship with LH comes to mind)
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:21 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
J343 wrote:
CX aggressively expanded in Europe over the last few years with LGW, MAN, DUB, MAD, ZRH, BCN, BRU among others to their network.

We've also seen BCN becoming a year round destination with the Airbus A350 and with MAD going 5x weekly with 3 Class B77W, though there are plans to deploy the Airbus A350-1000 with MAN already being served by it.


This summer MAD is daily, BCN is 4x weekly.

MAD gets HKG-LatAm traffic.


Is it the first time that MAD is being served daily?
Wondering if we could see it go up to 2x daily in the future (5-10 years time) for connections to LATAM.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Mortyman
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:33 am

Wish they would fly to OSL
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 567
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Cathay's route network is very strong in Europe
Brussels, with 4 weekly flights
Paris CDG with 2 daily flights
Frankfurt with 10 weekly flights
Dublin with 4 flights
Rome with daily flight
Milan with daily flight
Amsterdam with daily flight
Barcelona with 4-5 weekly flights
Madrid with daily flights
Zurich with daily flights
London Heathrow with 5 daily flights
London Gatwick with daily flights
Manchester with daily flights
There are more than 120 daily flights operated with the Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A350-900 / -1000 is a very strong network in Europe.

Destinations that I would see in the future would be more flights to seasonal destinations such as Venice, Geneva and Berlin.
Munich would be ideal but a lot of competition with the A380 of Lufthansa on this route, Vienna also has potential the A359 is perfect for this route
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
Morgenstern1234
Topic Author
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am

Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:32 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Cathay's route network is very strong in Europe
Brussels, with 4 weekly flights
Paris CDG with 2 daily flights
Frankfurt with 10 weekly flights
Dublin with 4 flights
Rome with daily flight
Milan with daily flight
Amsterdam with daily flight
Barcelona with 4-5 weekly flights
Madrid with daily flights
Zurich with daily flights
London Heathrow with 5 daily flights
London Gatwick with daily flights
Manchester with daily flights
There are more than 120 daily flights operated with the Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A350-900 / -1000 is a very strong network in Europe.

Destinations that I would see in the future would be more flights to seasonal destinations such as Venice, Geneva and Berlin.
Munich would be ideal but a lot of competition with the A380 of Lufthansa on this route, Vienna also has potential the A359 is perfect for this route


I would definitely add Moscow , big boom in Chinese plus Hong Kong tourists to Russia and Russians to south east Asia compared to 2015. Maybe CX doesn’t want to resume because China southern already flies 4 weekly from Guangzhou and 4 weekly from Shenzhen at the moment...
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Europe network

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:28 pm

BHX has been of interest for some time, slated to appear after MAN had been established. Would not be surprised to see it appear in the next 12 months.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...

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