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NeBaNi
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:05 pm

Stitch wrote:
AngMoh wrote:
The minimum Airbus gets out of this is to get a vocal shareholder like Qatar to make a phonecall to IAG management with the question "what are you doing?".


Knowing AAB, it is more likely he'd call IAG management and ask him how he can get a similar deal from Boeing. :rotfl:

Let me add my bit of speculation to the hat, while we're wildly speculating away... Perhaps QR finds that Air Italy doesn't need to expand quite as fast (apparently losing money by the truckloads), and gave Boeing the okay to release IG's slots to IAG? That's where the slots could come from, but the whole order is supposed to be delivered from 2023 anyway, so a long ways off. But if there's speculation of Jet Airways slots being involved, then why not Air Italy as well?
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:41 pm

Due to the fact that the discussion is more based on opinions than on facts thread has been moved to the appropriate forum to continue the discussion.
 
Lewton
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:14 pm

jsfr wrote:
If I were Airbus, I would have just sat quietly, taken the moral high ground, and watched as IAG/Boeing dug themselves out of another mess with the invevitable legal challenges from market authorities/shareholders, etc...

Which authority would care if IAG asked Airbus for an offer?
They are not a state-owned company.

Also, shareholders either like and support management or don't. Right now Walsh is liked by the shareholders and they don't care about the details of one order.
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:57 pm

Polot wrote:
kengo wrote:
Polot wrote:
There are no import taxes (tariffs) on civil aircraft between the US and EU.


Yes, I know and that's why the "confused" emoji at the end.

I was t sure if you knew or not due to the emoji, but figured it would be best to nip it at the bud and be clear before someone takes the taxes argument and runs with it.


This makes it hard for EU firms to sell their goods in the US because it makes them more expensive than American- made goods.
At just under 2%, average customs duties between the EU and the US are generally low. But the average hides a different situation for individual products


http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2 ... ariffs.pdf
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:01 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Polot wrote:
kengo wrote:

Yes, I know and that's why the "confused" emoji at the end.

I was t sure if you knew or not due to the emoji, but figured it would be best to nip it at the bud and be clear before someone takes the taxes argument and runs with it.


This makes it hard for EU firms to sell their goods in the US because it makes them more expensive than American- made goods.
At just under 2%, average customs duties between the EU and the US are generally low. But the average hides a different situation for individual products


http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2 ... ariffs.pdf

Tariffs are goods specific. Civil aviation has no tariffs right now.
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:41 pm

This order was vital to Boeing. They may have plenty of MAX orders but how many since the crashes? None until IAGs. Boeing needed to stop further cancellations which could easily have becoe Airbus orders. No doubt airlines cancelling due to a poor safety record etc would mean Boeing having to pay back deposits.
The IAG order might just stop some airlines cancelling but I'm not too sure many further orders will arrive. Boeing needs to make the aircraft stable under normal flight conditions and then airlines will start ordering once again.
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:48 pm

Stitch wrote:
I'm focusing on the MAX's price because everyone I am responding to is claiming Boeing only secured this LoI because they offered IAG a price so low they could not refuse to work with Boeing to take them up on it.


Well, you may exclude me from everyone. I have heard nothing which suggests Boeing dropped their trousers to IAG on the MAX.

Stitch wrote:
The existing 4500-frame customer base (including the two who suffered fatal hull losses) continuing to hold on to their orders is a stronger vote of confidence.

IAG has signaled an intent to take their first MAX five years from now. That is more hedging a bet than a vote of confidence. If they had signaled an intent to take their first MAX five months] from now...


I disagree. Firm orders are next to impossible to get out of without severe penalties. For a carrier to openly debate incurring those before we have a final report or solution on the MAX issues would be irresponsible. At a time of crisis, it is easier to hold onto contracted customers than to go out and sign up new ones.
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majano
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:42 am

Stitch wrote:
majano wrote:
With all due respect, please read the comments attributed to Walsh in this "LOI". He specifically referred to the spurring of competition. Now, if you want to spur competition, you surely would not limit yourself to a single supplier before the "competition" even starts.


With all due respect, if you only order from one of two vendors, how do you spur competition?

...

Not sure why you are asking me this question. It is Walsh who spoke of spurring competition whilst penning an LOI with a single vendor without an RFP, not me.

Before my comments are further misconstrued, let me just venture my unsolicited opinion on the LOI. I believe that IAG will turn this LOI into an order for a few reasons -

1. IAG has a strong relationship with Boeing and the relationship appears to be getting stronger.
2. IAG trusts Boeing to deliver, evidence of this is their recent commitment to use Boeing for services related to part of its (IAG's) Airbus fleet.
3. If IAG did not intend to take the MAX, it is difficult to find justification for going public with the LOI at a major airshow with possibility of reputations damage.

Regards
majano
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:27 pm

majano wrote:
Not sure why you are asking me this question. It is Walsh who spoke of spurring competition whilst penning an LOI with a single vendor without an RFP, not me.


One could easily ask Mr. Walsh the same as the last time any IAG airline ordered a Boeing narrowbody was decades ago (737 Classic). Since the A320 launched, that is all they have ordered. So they have been ordering only for Airbus for a very, very long time which is not a tactic I personally see as one that would make Airbus feel they had to compete for each RFP.

And speaking of RFP, one wonders if Boeing asked to make an offer in any - or even all - of those A320 purchases. If IAG went exclusive on even one of them, then those who have been complaining about the lack of an RFP to Airbus are being hypocritical. And if they did ask Boeing to submit an RFP on all of them, one wonders if they were really serious about the 737NG or was it just a ploy to get a cheaper price from Airbus as posited by a number of folks in this case. And if the latter, one wonders why have they not done this before with a large LoI for the 737NG that was later allowed to lapse when a subsequent large A320 order was placed.



Until a C-level IAG executive says otherwise, I view this as IAG only wanting the 737 MAX for this fleet purchase round for a number of reasons (none of which were a negative reflection on the A320 as a product). I do not believe they had to have Airbus in the room with Boeing to get the overall deal they wanted and I do not believe Boeing felt they had to be anything less than competitive with their response to IAG's RFP even without Airbus as a counter-bidder. I believe IAG went into these negotiations with a firm number in mind and Boeing agreed to that number sufficiently for IAG to signal their intent to continue forward towards a firm order. IAG might have been using the current issues with the MAX to their favor or they might not have. I don't believe Boeing is so desperate for a major MAX order that they agreed to commercial terms well below what they would have accepted if the crashes and groundings had never happened, but I do believe they knew the overall costs to IAG of adding the 737 back into their combined fleet and were aggressive in their offer.
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:00 pm

And note Airbus's response is to simply point out they weren't asked to compete, rather than a statement along the lines that they are ready to meet or beat Boeing's offer for 200 aircraft.

To me Airbus is doing some clever posturing, with a potential side effect of getting a better idea of how low Boeing was willing to bid to get the business.
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:07 am

DarkKnight5 wrote:
RickNRoll wrote:
Stitch wrote:

I would like to believe that what they care about is did IAG secure a deal that will grow the airline's revenues and, by extension, their stock price. If adding the MAX to the A320 is how AIG does that, then I would not be surprised if they are satisfied.
It's about following a proper prices when a company intends to sound billions of dollars. Public companies are obliged to do so.

Public companies are not governments.


A publicly listed company has an obligation to it's board and shareholders to follow due process when committing to any major expenditure.
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/IAG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:53 pm

SilverwingSpttr wrote:
....and Airbus is just being Airbus. A competitor is never satisfied until there is no more competition.


.......thats right......

Just like how Airbus tried to openly kill-off the A330NEO with rock-bottom 787 pricing, and then how Airbus tried to completely kill-off the Bombardier C-Series at birth.......

Those folks at Airbus are just plain terrible at that sort of thing.......
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:19 pm

Stitch wrote:
majano wrote:
Not sure why you are asking me this question. It is Walsh who spoke of spurring competition whilst penning an LOI with a single vendor without an RFP, not me.

One could easily ask Mr. Walsh the same as the last time any IAG airline ordered a Boeing narrowbody was decades ago (737 Classic). Since the A320 launched, that is all they have ordered. So they have been ordering only for Airbus for a very, very long time which is not a tactic I personally see as one that would make Airbus feel they had to compete for each RFP.
And speaking of RFP, one wonders if Boeing asked to make an offer in any - or even all - of those A320 purchases. If IAG went exclusive on even one of them, then those who have been complaining about the lack of an RFP to Airbus are being hypocritical. And if they did ask Boeing to submit an RFP on all of them, one wonders if they were really serious about the 737NG or was it just a ploy to get a cheaper price from Airbus as posited by a number of folks in this case. And if the latter, one wonders why have they not done this before with a large LoI for the 737NG that was later allowed to lapse when a subsequent large A320 order was placed. Until a C-level IAG executive says otherwise, I view this as IAG only wanting the 737 MAX for this fleet purchase round for a number of reasons (none of which were a negative reflection on the A320 as a product). I do not believe they had to have Airbus in the room with Boeing to get the overall deal they wanted and I do not believe Boeing felt they had to be anything less than competitive with their response to IAG's RFP even without Airbus as a counter-bidder. I believe IAG went into these negotiations with a firm number in mind and Boeing agreed to that number sufficiently for IAG to signal their intent to continue forward towards a firm order. IAG might have been using the current issues with the MAX to their favor or they might not have. I don't believe Boeing is so desperate for a major MAX order that they agreed to commercial terms well below what they would have accepted if the crashes and groundings had never happened, but I do believe they knew the overall costs to IAG of adding the 737 back into their combined fleet and were aggressive in their offer.


........thats all correct and fine Stitch, but whatever side of the fence you sit on here, you have to be a little puzzled as to why the IAG board would sanction WW to issue this LOI evidently without any competitive quotes; in probable contravention to IAG's own procurement procedures. Its also a little bizarre that there was absolutely no hint of this investment requirement at the IAG Capital Markets Day. If IAG are going to undertake this sort of investment without warning investors, then why would they pay any attention to future events? That's why IAG shareholders are upset; (and I know some); and I wonder if there is some kind of deeper 'power-play' going on here at IAG board level, and/or IAG has A32x prices fixed some time into the future, so Boeing knew or got insider information on what price to beat.

Whatever partisan views may be, there is something unusual to this.

Lets not forget that IAG also placed 28 x A321XLR orders/options at PAS19; and it must have been a bizarre meeting for WW & IAG negotiating a XLR deal, and NOT mentioning the small matter of a 200 unit order that they were evidently 'hiding' from Airbus. I suspect if IAG had offered Airbus the opportunity to bid for 200 x A220/32x, they would have given them 28 x XLR's for free!

Perhaps of more interest to me is what the XLR can do that the MAX10 can't.........?
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:09 pm

RickNRoll wrote:
A publicly listed company has an obligation to it's board and shareholders to follow due process when committing to any major expenditure.


And nobody has offered any direct proof that IAG has not done so. The vast majority of those arguing against this LoI has done so on the basis that "due diligence" only means getting the lowest price possible. I argue that IAG was looking at factors other than just price.

Frankly, if I went into the A321XLR thread and claimed Airbus sold every one of those 14 frames to IAG at just above production cost because IAG's shareholders demanded the lowest price possible, I'd be torn into like a pack of dogs on a fox. People would counter with how the XLR had capabilities that no other OEM narrobody airframe offered and how they directly matched the needs of Aer Lingus and Iberia. How IAG's significant Airbus fleet and support infrastructure meant that the integration and crew training costs would be minimal. And how all these factors (and more) would mean that Airbus could charge a higher price and IAG agreeing to that price meant that they had met their "due diligence".

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. And for someone to claim otherwise, they are, IMO, just showing their partisan colors and are upset that IAG ordered Boeing instead of Airbus (yet again) and are trying to rationalize their discomfort at that.


SelseyBill wrote:
........thats all correct and fine Stitch, but whatever side of the fence you sit on here, you have to be a little puzzled as to why the IAG board would sanction WW to issue this LOI evidently without any competitive quotes; in probable contravention to IAG's own procurement procedures.


If IAG has options and/or purchase rights on A320 family frames, they already have a competitive quote from Airbus. And if IAG ever exercised any of those without first issuing an RFP to Boeing, they would be in contravention of these supposed procurement procedures. So, IMO, said procurement procedures don't require it.

There is a rather silly dichotomy going on here where we have people arguing that by not involving Airbus directly, IAG paid too much for these frames while also arguing that IAG received these frames for well-below commercial rates because Boeing is desperate for any MAX order. :confused:


SelseyBill wrote:
Its also a little bizarre that there was absolutely no hint of this investment requirement at the IAG Capital Markets Day. If IAG are going to undertake this sort of investment without warning investors, then why would they pay any attention to future events?


As many love to keep pointing out any chance they get, no serious investment has been made as of yet because this is a Letter of Intent. And IAG did inform the London Markets (whom I imagine is the Exchange of Record for their stock) that they were entering into this LoI.


SelseyBill wrote:
That's why IAG shareholders are upset; (and I know some); and I wonder if there is some kind of deeper 'power-play' going on here at IAG board level, and/or IAG has A32x prices fixed some time into the future, so Boeing knew or got insider information on what price to beat.


As I noted above (and multiple times in this thread), I am assuming IAG has options and/or purchase rights for A320 family frames and those will include pricing. So IAG knew what they would pay from Airbus should they have decided to convert them to firm orders.

People are also assuming IAG wanted 200 more A320 family frames (see below for comments about the A321XLR). If they did, why talk to Boeing, much less sign an LoI? They had options and purchase rights they could have converted at a known price. Some are arguing that IAG entered into this LoI to get Airbus to lower their price on said options/PRs, but if that was the goal, then why exclude Airbus from the RFP? And why wait until now to play Boeing off against Airbus to get a lower price when they have been buying Airbus planes exclusively for decades?


SelseyBill wrote:
Whatever partisan views may be, there is something unusual to this.


To me, the only thing I find unusual is IAG waited this long to diversify their narrowbody fleet.


SelseyBill wrote:
Lets not forget that IAG also placed 28 x A321XLR orders/options at PAS19; and it must have been a bizarre meeting for WW & IAG negotiating a XLR deal, and NOT mentioning the small matter of a 200 unit order that they were evidently 'hiding' from Airbus. I suspect if IAG had offered Airbus the opportunity to bid for 200 x A220/32x, they would have given them 28 x XLR's for free!


This only reinforces my belief that IAG was not interested in adding 200 more A320s to the fleet if they could get a similar (or better) deal on 200 MAX.

The A321XLR will fill a specific niche in their fleet operations that nothing else currently available can. They ordered 14 explicitly to allow Aer Lingus and Iberia to open new TATL routes and they have 14 options to allow for future expansion. I wonder if Aer Lingus will even take their A321-200LR or convert them to different models.


SelseyBill wrote:
Perhaps of more interest to me is what the XLR can do that the MAX10 can't.........?


Cross the Atlantic Ocean, for one. :cheeky:
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:52 pm

And as a follow-up, I trust IAG knows what they're doing and I feel it would be arrogant for me to presume I know more than they do about how they run their company.

I've stated my case multiple times and if you do not agree, fair enough. I do not agree with a fair number of the cases made here by others and fair enough there, as well. I agree to disagree and am moving on from this thread.

:wave:
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/IAG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
Notice how Airbus says they were not given the opportunity to compete but didn't say they would meet or beat Boeing on price, performance and delivery schedule, so it's posturing rather than trying to close business.

If they've got very few slots in the near term then that's a good problem to have and I'm not sure why people are trying to spin it as otherwise.
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:16 pm

tlecam wrote:
Wait - are people really taking the position that IAG order of 200 737MAX, announced at major air show, that didn’t even get a competitive bid from the other big aircraft manufacturer, is business as usual and has nothing to do with the fact that the MAX has been pulled out of the air for several months and likely won’t return until at least the fall? Really?


Well in this same site we are seeing people praise how smart WW is for ordering a non airworthy airplane, so nothing's really surprising anymore.
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SelseyBill
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:29 pm

Stitch wrote:
........I trust IAG knows what they're doing and I feel it would be arrogant for me to presume I know more than they do about how they run their company


The board doesn't 'own' IAG, the shareholders do. The board runs the business in the best interests of its shareholders, and there are 000's of IAG shareholders who are questioning this decision, because they perceive; for right or for wrong; that their best interests are not served by it.
 
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:36 pm

Stitch wrote:
Cross the Atlantic Ocean, for one. :cheeky:

Yes, I'm aware the XLR can do TATL; that wasn't what I meant, but never mind.........
 
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:11 pm

zkojq wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Wait - are people really taking the position that IAG order of 200 737MAX, announced at major air show, that didn’t even get a competitive bid from the other big aircraft manufacturer, is business as usual and has nothing to do with the fact that the MAX has been pulled out of the air for several months and likely won’t return until at least the fall? Really?

Well in this same site we are seeing people praise how smart WW is for ordering a non airworthy airplane, so nothing's really surprising anymore.

And on the same site we had posts saying Trump leaned on Boeing to lower the price in exchange for Queen Elisabeth knighting him, so...
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Revelation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Wait - are people really taking the position that IAG order of 200 737MAX, announced at major air show, that didn’t even get a competitive bid from the other big aircraft manufacturer, is business as usual and has nothing to do with the fact that the MAX has been pulled out of the air for several months and likely won’t return until at least the fall? Really?

Well in this same site we are seeing people praise how smart WW is for ordering a non airworthy airplane, so nothing's really surprising anymore.

And on the same site we had posts saying Trump leaned on Boeing to lower the price in exchange for Queen Elisabeth knighting him, so...


Fair points, fair points. :banghead:
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Re: Media: Airbus to challenge IAG, Boeing deal for 200 MAX?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Wait - are people really taking the position that IAG order of 200 737MAX, announced at major air show, that didn’t even get a competitive bid from the other big aircraft manufacturer, is business as usual and has nothing to do with the fact that the MAX has been pulled out of the air for several months and likely won’t return until at least the fall? Really?

Well in this same site we are seeing people praise how smart WW is for ordering a non airworthy airplane, so nothing's really surprising anymore.

And on the same site we had posts saying Trump leaned on Boeing to lower the price in exchange for Queen Elisabeth knighting him, so...


Indeed. It's a colourful place. :lol:
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DarkKnight5
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:33 pm

RickNRoll wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
RickNRoll wrote:
It's about following a proper prices when a company intends to sound billions of dollars. Public companies are obliged to do so.

Public companies are not governments.


A publicly listed company has an obligation to it's board and shareholders to follow due process when committing to any major expenditure.

You really think the board (as the shareholders’ representatives) was not briefed? That’s conspiratorial thinking
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 pm

Stitch wrote:
RickNRoll wrote:
A publicly listed company has an obligation to it's board and shareholders to follow due process when committing to any major expenditure.


And nobody has offered any direct proof that IAG has not done so. The vast majority of those arguing against this LoI has done so on the basis that "due diligence" only means getting the lowest price possible. I argue that IAG was looking at factors other than just price.

Frankly, if I went into the A321XLR thread and claimed Airbus sold every one of those 14 frames to IAG at just above production cost because IAG's shareholders demanded the lowest price possible, I'd be torn into like a pack of dogs on a fox. People would counter with how the XLR had capabilities that no other OEM narrobody airframe offered and how they directly matched the needs of Aer Lingus and Iberia. How IAG's significant Airbus fleet and support infrastructure meant that the integration and crew training costs would be minimal. And how all these factors (and more) would mean that Airbus could charge a higher price and IAG agreeing to that price meant that they had met their "due diligence".

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. And for someone to claim otherwise, they are, IMO, just showing their partisan colors and are upset that IAG ordered Boeing instead of Airbus (yet again) and are trying to rationalize their discomfort at that.


SelseyBill wrote:
........thats all correct and fine Stitch, but whatever side of the fence you sit on here, you have to be a little puzzled as to why the IAG board would sanction WW to issue this LOI evidently without any competitive quotes; in probable contravention to IAG's own procurement procedures.


If IAG has options and/or purchase rights on A320 family frames, they already have a competitive quote from Airbus. And if IAG ever exercised any of those without first issuing an RFP to Boeing, they would be in contravention of these supposed procurement procedures. So, IMO, said procurement procedures don't require it.

There is a rather silly dichotomy going on here where we have people arguing that by not involving Airbus directly, IAG paid too much for these frames while also arguing that IAG received these frames for well-below commercial rates because Boeing is desperate for any MAX order. :confused:


SelseyBill wrote:
Its also a little bizarre that there was absolutely no hint of this investment requirement at the IAG Capital Markets Day. If IAG are going to undertake this sort of investment without warning investors, then why would they pay any attention to future events?


As many love to keep pointing out any chance they get, no serious investment has been made as of yet because this is a Letter of Intent. And IAG did inform the London Markets (whom I imagine is the Exchange of Record for their stock) that they were entering into this LoI.


SelseyBill wrote:
That's why IAG shareholders are upset; (and I know some); and I wonder if there is some kind of deeper 'power-play' going on here at IAG board level, and/or IAG has A32x prices fixed some time into the future, so Boeing knew or got insider information on what price to beat.


As I noted above (and multiple times in this thread), I am assuming IAG has options and/or purchase rights for A320 family frames and those will include pricing. So IAG knew what they would pay from Airbus should they have decided to convert them to firm orders.

People are also assuming IAG wanted 200 more A320 family frames (see below for comments about the A321XLR). If they did, why talk to Boeing, much less sign an LoI? They had options and purchase rights they could have converted at a known price. Some are arguing that IAG entered into this LoI to get Airbus to lower their price on said options/PRs, but if that was the goal, then why exclude Airbus from the RFP? And why wait until now to play Boeing off against Airbus to get a lower price when they have been buying Airbus planes exclusively for decades?


SelseyBill wrote:
Whatever partisan views may be, there is something unusual to this.


To me, the only thing I find unusual is IAG waited this long to diversify their narrowbody fleet.


SelseyBill wrote:
Lets not forget that IAG also placed 28 x A321XLR orders/options at PAS19; and it must have been a bizarre meeting for WW & IAG negotiating a XLR deal, and NOT mentioning the small matter of a 200 unit order that they were evidently 'hiding' from Airbus. I suspect if IAG had offered Airbus the opportunity to bid for 200 x A220/32x, they would have given them 28 x XLR's for free!


This only reinforces my belief that IAG was not interested in adding 200 more A320s to the fleet if they could get a similar (or better) deal on 200 MAX.

The A321XLR will fill a specific niche in their fleet operations that nothing else currently available can. They ordered 14 explicitly to allow Aer Lingus and Iberia to open new TATL routes and they have 14 options to allow for future expansion. I wonder if Aer Lingus will even take their A321-200LR or convert them to different models.


SelseyBill wrote:
Perhaps of more interest to me is what the XLR can do that the MAX10 can't.........?


Cross the Atlantic Ocean, for one. :cheeky:

Ding ding ding winner.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4316
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/IAG deal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:24 pm

par13del wrote:
funny thing would be if any Airbus experts are working with EASA reviewing the MAX MCAS adjustments, would they suddenly come down with a flu, have family emergencies, etc etc etc?

Do you have any evidence that they are?


par13del wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Why does Airbus have to be offering "reasonable pricing". They have the superior narrowbody offering and they can't build them fast enough.

So the reason for challenging the LOI is what, pride?


To make Boeing go lower.
First to fly the 787-9
 
majano
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Airbus seeks to break Boeing/AIG deal

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:11 pm

Stitch wrote:
majano wrote:
Not sure why you are asking me this question. It is Walsh who spoke of spurring competition whilst penning an LOI with a single vendor without an RFP, not me.


One could easily ask Mr. Walsh the same as the last time any IAG airline ordered a Boeing narrowbody was decades ago (737 Classic). Since the A320 launched, that is all they have ordered. So they have been ordering only for Airbus for a very, very long time which is not a tactic I personally see as one that would make Airbus feel they had to compete for each RFP.
.

Let me acknowledge your insightful views on this topic. IAG was weary of being an Airbus captive according to this latest article on Flightglobal https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ve-459324/.

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