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eastafspot
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Downgrade from C to Y

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:02 am

How does that work and what can be expected?

Currently stuck at the Crowne Plaza Nairobi (paid by AF) :frown:
AF814 was 40 (?) min late so connecting flight to Bujumbura was missed.
Rebooked on to KQ464 at 16:40 but operated by Jambojet. (other options - with a biz cabin - were tomorrow KQ flight at 7:20 am or RwandAir flight via EBB and KGL that arrives 20 min before JamboJet option).
It reminds me this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1408307&p=21345017&hilit=burundi#p21345017

How your/other airlines deal with this situation?

Also, can I claim the EC261/2004 compensation too in this case?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
tommy1808
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:21 am

eastafspot wrote:
Also, can I claim the EC261/2004 compensation too in this case?


AF Ticket? Sufficiently late, so yes.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Also, can I claim the EC261/2004 compensation too in this case?


AF Ticket? Sufficiently late, so yes.

Best regards
Thomas

Supposed to be there at 7:50 this morning, instead new ETA is 17:45 so a 9h++ delay.
Where do you get the reasons / circumstances?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
tommy1808
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:49 pm

eastafspot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Also, can I claim the EC261/2004 compensation too in this case?


AF Ticket? Sufficiently late, so yes.

Best regards
Thomas

Supposed to be there at 7:50 this morning, instead new ETA is 17:45 so a 9h++ delay.
Where do you get the reasons / circumstances?


What do you mean by reasons/circumstances?

EC261 is pretty much regardless of circumstance.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
debonair
Posts: 3437
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:02 am

You are entitled for full EC261, IF the connection was booked in ONE ticket and IF the delay was not an "act of god" (like weather). Important, the delay doesn't count - only the arrival time at the last point of the ticket does; so 600€.

Upgrading and downgrading
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.


There is only ONE BIG problem - according to different court decisions in the past, only the OPERATING airline do count and NOT the codeshare. If the flight with BusinessClass was on KQ, even with a AF flight number, you might be not entitled for compensation - as the operating airline isn't an EU carrier. However, I most urgently recommend to claim for the late arrival at the final destination AND the downgrade.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:46 pm

debonair wrote:
There is only ONE BIG problem - according to different court decisions in the past, only the OPERATING airline do count and NOT the codeshare. If the flight with BusinessClass was on KQ, even with a AF flight number, you might be not entitled for compensation - as the operating airline isn't an EU carrier. However, I most urgently recommend to claim for the late arrival at the final destination AND the downgrade.


My bad for the late answer Debonair. Your comments are always spot on!! Thus you deserve a total respect! :)


Eiiiish! What a confusing answer :confused:
All flights were booked in one ticket and having an AF code.
Only the initially leg to Bujumbura (7h20 ish) was fully operational. Too bad KQ, operated a Jambojet A/C on the second and only evening connection

Anyway the letter/complaint were sent today/ right now!
Let's see how long it get solved.... :scratchchin:
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
debonair
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:24 am

eastafspot wrote:
Eiiiish! What a confusing answer :confused:
All flights were booked in one ticket and having an AF code.

Anyway the letter/complaint were sent today/ right now!
Let's see how long it get solved.... :scratchchin:


Pls. keep us updated...
Sorry if confusing, but many courts are just taking the operating airline into account - especially on code-share! Very easy, if you have booked a flight from the USA to Europe on KLM you are entitled under EU compensation; BUT if you have booked a CODESHARE flight with KL-flight number but operated by DELTA you are not entitled...
So if your original routing was Nairobi to Bujumbura on a AF codeshare flight, AF may argue that the operating airline and route was outside of the EU and therefore not covered under the EC261/2004 act.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

debonair wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Eiiiish! What a confusing answer :confused:
All flights were booked in one ticket and having an AF code.

Anyway the letter/complaint were sent today/ right now!
Let's see how long it get solved.... :scratchchin:


Pls. keep us updated...
Sorry if confusing, but many courts are just taking the operating airline into account - especially on code-share! Very easy, if you have booked a flight from the USA to Europe on KLM you are entitled under EU compensation; BUT if you have booked a CODESHARE flight with KL-flight number but operated by DELTA you are not entitled...
So if your original routing was Nairobi to Bujumbura on a AF codeshare flight, AF may argue that the operating airline and route was outside of the EU and therefore not covered under the EC261/2004 act.

Yes it was a codeshare.
however her is the mail sent by AF today:

- You will get the €600
- You will get 10000 miles as a goodwill gesture
- and (using google translation) :
"I have also sent your request for reimbursement of the difference in fare between the reserved business class and the Economy class in which you have traveled, to our financial service which will not fail to return to you directly by email once the transaction has been completed."

I wonder how much it could be? €50 maybe, €100 max or probably more?
How is it calculated on a 6 segment trip?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
debonair
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:56 am

Hi, sounds fair...
Since yesterday the law changed dramatically... The EU airline is now responsible, if it sold the ticket and NOT any longer the operating carrier; bcs. the EU airline can ask for compensation from the partner carrier. So indeed, AF needs to refund the sector in Economy.
 
MHG
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:52 am

debonair wrote:
Hi, sounds fair...
Since yesterday the law changed dramatically... The EU airline is now responsible, if it sold the ticket and NOT any longer the operating carrier; bcs. the EU airline can ask for compensation from the partner carrier. So indeed, AF needs to refund the sector in Economy.

Thanks a lot. That´ll be a good background consideration for my future travel planning ...
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:35 am

debonair wrote:
Hi, sounds fair...
Since yesterday the law changed dramatically... The EU airline is now responsible, if it sold the ticket and NOT any longer the operating carrier; bcs. the EU airline can ask for compensation from the partner carrier. So indeed, AF needs to refund the sector in Economy.

A very good news indeed, glad it happens now!

Otherwise, a mail received from AF this morning:

"You will get € 35,42 refund for your downgrade"... :eek:

I was expecting between €50 and €100 to be honest
Next time, I will ask for the Flying Blue XP instead.
Out of curiosity, would you rather choose to take the €800 voucher (AF,KL or DL) or the €600 cash compensation?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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lugie
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:07 pm

eastafspot wrote:
Out of curiosity, would you rather choose to take the €800 voucher (AF,KL or DL) or the €600 cash compensation?


I'd say it depends on the circumstances but if you have more or less concrete plans for traveling somewhere on either of those airlines in the foreseeable future, I'd probably go for the voucher, simply because it's over 30% more. 800€ gets you pretty far, if you're smart at booking that's a whole longhaul round trip.

However, if you're not sure when/if you'll travel on that alliance again or have some other expenses coming up - say you need a new laptop computer or phone or you just wanna treat yourself to a nicer hotel on your next trip - by any means, go for the cash.
If you know what to spend it on, 600€ are probably better than an 800€ voucher with nowhere to go - who knows how far 800€ might only get you if you use the voucher maybe 5 years from now.
DH4 E75 E90 CR9 CRK M88 319 320 321 332 333 359 733 73G 738 739 748 764 772 788
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debonair
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Re: Downgrade from C to Y

Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:57 pm

eastafspot wrote:
Out of curiosity, would you rather choose to take the €800 voucher (AF,KL or DL) or the €600 cash compensation?


I would take cash, as I am not a loyal customer - I always choose the most exotic or cheapest option. Maybe in one year time ET or KQ are much more cheaper than KL/AF to travel on, but with a voucher you will be forced to these (more expansive) airlines - especially with the new French ECO-Tax it would be a stupidity to stay with AF (just my opinion).

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