lhrsfosyd91
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Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:56 am

Kiev-Moscow?
Doha-Dubai?
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:11 am

Pyongyang -> Seoul?

It's a 3.5 million city + 10+ million city?
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oskarclare
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 am

Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:23 am

oskarclare wrote:
Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.


And they don't fly there due too the terrible relations between Qatar and Australia?
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 am

By city size must be Tehran to somewhere
 
sibibom
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 am

Mumbai-Karachi, Delhi- Lahore are sister cities with familial and business ties spanning centuries, would have had dozens of flights daily, but well now.........

I think Dubai-Tel-Aviv would be interesting in a normal world
 
ABpositive
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 am

Mumbai - Shanghai (in fact many India-China city pairs)
 
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chepos
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:41 am

IKA-LAX and IKA-TLV would be up there. BEY-DTW I assume would have a good chunk of traffic.



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airlineguy1234
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:41 am

BOM-EWR
 
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SeaEagle8
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:46 am

FlyRow wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.


And they don't fly there due too the terrible relations between Qatar and Australia?


It's just a matter of allowable frequencies between the two countries. The Qatar-Australia bilateral allotment of frequencies has been exhausted. In order for Qatar Airways to increase flights to Australia, the bilateral would have to be amended to allow more frequencies. Although BNE is the largest unserved city in Australia, this route doesn't really fit into the "largest unserved" category.
NSW based avgeek
 
oskarclare
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:51 am

SeaEagle8 wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.


And they don't fly there due too the terrible relations between Qatar and Australia?


It's just a matter of allowable frequencies between the two countries. The Qatar-Australia bilateral allotment of frequencies has been exhausted. In order for Qatar Airways to increase flights to Australia, the bilateral would have to be amended to allow more frequencies. Although BNE is the largest unserved city in Australia, this route doesn't really fit into the "largest unserved" category.


Thanks for explaining that mate. It is a 'political' issue as frequencies aren't being increased and not looking likely in the near future. Sorry not largest unserved but a 'large' unserved market.
 
x1234
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:52 am

ABpositive, the problem with China-India is due to the restrictive aviation bilateral between China & India with Chinese airlines using all the slots and unable to expand. China Eastern wants to expand to Mumbai but doesn't want to cut their New Delhi frequencies (daily). Air India should fly Mumbai-Shanghai (there are still slots available to Indian airlines).
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:52 am

Let me clarify, I'm more interested in routes that already have massive demand demonstrated by traffic already going through another point. I am not interested in routes that can be served but are commercially unviable (BOMEWR) or bilateral restrictions (DOHBNE).

By the way, there's hardly anyone travelling between DOH and BNE.
 
GalebG4
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:09 am

Look most of the world destinations that make sense are served by airlines. There is quite a small number of markets that are not served by airlines because of old political problems. Middle East, Israel, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Central Africa, India-Pakistan, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:16 am

Also kiev-moscow served by many companies
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:17 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
Also kiev-moscow served by many companies


Do you mind sharing with us who flies between Kiev and Moscow?
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:20 am

Common people. Job, sport. Just for visit relatives decreased, yes
 
shankly
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:22 am

CPT-LON for SAA

Dumped by the ANC to spite the DA led Western Cape. On some days in peak summer, BA send down 3 x 747's plus a 777 from LGW.....
L1011 - P F M
 
B777LRF
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:36 am

shankly wrote:
CPT-LON for SAA

Dumped by the ANC to spite the DA led Western Cape. On some days in peak summer, BA send down 3 x 747's plus a 777 from LGW.....


Good one, nice demonstration of standard African politics.

Another left-field offering: BRU-PAR. There used to be multiple daily services from either end, but for political reasons it was decided to build a HST line connecting the two. Not a single flight left these days. PAR-LON almost the same, with a tunnel chucked in for good measure.
Signature. You just read one.
 
5NFGS
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 am

IKA-JFK
IKA-LAX
IKA-YYZ
ICN-PYO
CJU-PYO
DMM-TLV
RUH-TLV
JED-TLV
DOH-TLV
DXB-TLV
CCS-LAX??
A 319/320/321,A 330-200/300, A 340-300/500/600, B 737-300/400/500,B 737-700/800,B 747-300/400,B 767-200 ER/300 ER, B 777-200/200 ER,CRJ 200/900/1000,DHC-8-300/Q 300, DC-10, ERJ-195,MD-11
 
DC1979
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:55 am

I would add Montreal-Beirut to the list. From what I hear AC would love to fly the route but it keeps getting blocked.
 
LatinAirliner
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:56 am

5NFGS wrote:
IKA-JFK
IKA-LAX
IKA-YYZ
ICN-PYO
CJU-PYO
DMM-TLV
RUH-TLV
JED-TLV
DOH-TLV
DXB-TLV
CCS-LAX??


I don't think CCS-LAX, but definetely CCS can be considered in the list to many other destinations: CCS-MIA and CCS-JFK.

Also CCS-BOG, which is served by Avior and Wingo, has a lack of service, that is un-directly caused by a political reason, but the market is huge.
LatinAirliner - Nickpo
 
Toinou
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:09 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Another left-field offering: BRU-PAR. There used to be multiple daily services from either end, but for political reasons it was decided to build a HST line connecting the two. Not a single flight left these days. PAR-LON almost the same, with a tunnel chucked in for good measure.


The decision to build the high speed line may be political but the fact that there is no air link between those is not. It is simply that, given the distance, planes are not efficient enough to attract customers. To me, this is an economical question, not a political one: EU is a free market, so any company which would try it could do so.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
Common people. Job, sport. Just for visit relatives decreased, yes


Do you mind writing that again, but this time in English?
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:14 pm

shankly wrote:
CPT-LON for SAA

Dumped by the ANC to spite the DA led Western Cape. On some days in peak summer, BA send down 3 x 747's plus a 777 from LGW.....


The route remains served by BA, read my post again.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:15 pm

5NFGS wrote:
IKA-JFK
IKA-LAX
IKA-YYZ
ICN-PYO
CJU-PYO
DMM-TLV
RUH-TLV
JED-TLV
DOH-TLV
DXB-TLV
CCS-LAX??


I can assure you that masses do not travel between TLV and DMM, RUH, JED, DOH or DXB.
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:15 pm

airlineguy1234 wrote:
BOM-EWR


What made you post that? You didn't understand the topic?
 
dredgy
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:22 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

I can assure you that masses do not travel between TLV and DMM, RUH, JED, DOH or DXB.


P2P traffic maybe not so much (though should be plenty of traffic between the Arab states and the West Bank, which has no airport so would necessitate a stop there).

However DOH/DXB-TLV would see a lot of traffic from all over. At the moment most Australian-Israelis I Know fly Australia-DXB-AMM and connect onwards. Though since Cathay has opened direct flights from Hong Kong a couple of years back that might have dropped off.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:30 pm

dredgy wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

I can assure you that masses do not travel between TLV and DMM, RUH, JED, DOH or DXB.


P2P traffic maybe not so much (though should be plenty of traffic between the Arab states and the West Bank, which has no airport so would necessitate a stop there).

However DOH/DXB-TLV would see a lot of traffic from all over. At the moment most Australian-Israelis I Know fly Australia-DXB-AMM and connect onwards. Though since Cathay has opened direct flights from Hong Kong a couple of years back that might have dropped off.


Palestinians already travel from AMM to Arab states so there isn't untapped potential there.

Read my post again, there is no demand between DOH/DXB and TLV.
 
superjeff
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:42 pm

chepos wrote:
IKA-LAX and IKA-TLV would be up there. BEY-DTW I assume would have a good chunk of traffic.



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here's also a significant Iranian-American (okay, "Persian") population in the DFW area; IKA-DFW might work. I think most of the Jews in Iran left for Israel years ago, though; I think there are really very few there these days.
 
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OA940
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:45 pm

TLV to like half the Middle East
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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Wynnster8
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:51 pm

Many China-United States routes
Favorite plane is 757-200 Favorite airport is Singapore Favorite route is SYD-JNB
 
Dominion301
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:53 pm

YUL-BEY
 
B1168
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:54 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
x1234 wrote:
ABpositive, the problem with China-India is due to the restrictive aviation bilateral between China & India with Chinese airlines using all the slots and unable to expand. China Eastern wants to expand to Mumbai but doesn't want to cut their New Delhi frequencies (daily). Air India should fly Mumbai-Shanghai (there are still slots available to Indian airlines).


How premium heavy is the demand? I admit that Air India is about the most premium-heavy airline after Jet Airway’s collapse. If premium demand is low, it may be better off just ask Vistara or Indigo or something like that to fly the pair.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:59 pm

I did a quick flight search on Google (I may still be wrong) and I believe there are still no non-stop flights between Saudi Arabia and Thailand.

I read some time ago on here that there is some weird spat between the Saudis and Thailand and therefore, no ties and consequently no flights between the nations.

Could JED/RUH-BKK be a contender as a large unservered market? The other Arab/Gulf carriers no doubt benefit a lot from this weirdness...
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:04 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
airlineguy1234 wrote:
BOM-EWR


What made you post that? You didn't understand the topic?


To be fair, it is not being served by UA right now due to political unrest, though not in India.

Of course, it isn't high on this list anwyay even if we were to include it
 
cedarjet
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:05 pm

BEY-YUL
IKA-LAX
FNJ-ICN
Thailand-Saudi Arabia
Ukraine-Russia
India-Pakistan (quickest way is via DXB)
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
blrsea
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:11 pm

B1168 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
x1234 wrote:
ABpositive, the problem with China-India is due to the restrictive aviation bilateral between China & India with Chinese airlines using all the slots and unable to expand. China Eastern wants to expand to Mumbai but doesn't want to cut their New Delhi frequencies (daily). Air India should fly Mumbai-Shanghai (there are still slots available to Indian airlines).


How premium heavy is the demand? I admit that Air India is about the most premium-heavy airline after Jet Airway’s collapse. If premium demand is low, it may be better off just ask Vistara or Indigo or something like that to fly the pair.


The problem was that China tried to be oversmart by giving only unwanted slots to Indian carriers which wasn't of use to Indian carriers, so they didn't operate the route. The bilateral will only be expanded when both sides have used up at least 80% of bilateral. That will happen once China assigns the right slots to Indian carriers.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:14 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
I did a quick flight search on Google (I may still be wrong) and I believe there are still no non-stop flights between Saudi Arabia and Thailand.

I read some time ago on here that there is some weird spat between the Saudis and Thailand and therefore, no ties and consequently no flights between the nations.

Could JED/RUH-BKK be a contender as a large unservered market? The other Arab/Gulf carriers no doubt benefit a lot from this weirdness...


Blue Diamond Affair, 1989. Saudi Arabia even imposed a travel ban to Thailand b/c a few Saudi diplomats were murdered in Thailand back during the affair (Although your regular Saudis travel to Thailand also for tourism despite the ban), and Saudi doesn't issue guest worker visa to Thailand (Thus reduced the VFR demand to nil, unlike other SE Asian countries like Indonesia or Philippines).

Wynnster8 wrote:
Many China-United States routes


Which one? Most city pairs with actual demand are served right now. You can't expect a flight from every single mid-size and above Chinese cities to mid-size and above American cities - that's what hubs are for.
 
ferminbrif
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:38 pm

Definitely, CCS should be among top in the list, because CCS used to be a good place for a lot of routes. Just to name some: AMS, LHR, FCO, MIA, JFK/EWR, IAH, EZE, MEX, GRU, MEX, SCL….. not anymore because of HCh and NM politics :shock: :evil: :mad:
 
Jomar777
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm

oskarclare wrote:
Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.


Not due to Politics as the author proposed on this discussion.

Cheers
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:44 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
Also kiev-moscow served by many companies


Do you mind sharing with us who flies between Kiev and Moscow?


It used to have >5 daily flights between the two cities
 
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spinotter
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:51 pm

B777LRF wrote:
shankly wrote:
CPT-LON for SAA

Dumped by the ANC to spite the DA led Western Cape. On some days in peak summer, BA send down 3 x 747's plus a 777 from LGW.....


Good one, nice demonstration of standard African politics.

Another left-field offering: BRU-PAR. There used to be multiple daily services from either end, but for political reasons it was decided to build a HST line connecting the two. Not a single flight left these days. PAR-LON almost the same, with a tunnel chucked in for good measure.


One hour and 23 minutes between Paris Gare du Nord and Bruxelles Gare du Midi. Who would be crazy enough to travel to CDG or ORY, wait forever, fly for 45 minutes, land in Zaventem, take the train to Bruxelles? We Americans could have the same thing for WAS-NYC-BOS if the USA were not a tottering loser nation yoked to the automobile.
 
alan3
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:52 pm

YVR or YUL to DXB?

YYZ to DME/SVO?
 
dcajet
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 pm

ferminbrif wrote:
Definitely, CCS should be among top in the list, because CCS used to be a good place for a lot of routes. Just to name some: AMS, LHR, FCO, MIA, JFK/EWR, IAH, EZE, MEX, GRU, MEX, SCL….. not anymore because of HCh and NM politics :shock: :evil: :mad:


EZE-CCS is served twice weekly by Estelar of Venezuela, using wet leased A330/340 from HiFly. They also fly, I believe once or twice a week between CCS-FCO.

5NFGS wrote:
CCS-LAX??


Very little ties between CA and Vzla. Even before the destruction of Venezuela began (1998) there were no non stop flights between California and Venezuela. VIASA never flew to LAX; Pan Am had flights via Guatemala City back in the 70s. Traditionally the Venezuelan diaspora in the US as well as business ties have been concentrated in FL, the East Coast and Texas.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Jomar777
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:24 pm

Folks
Look no further than DOH to Jeddah / Riyadh / Cairo / Manama / Abu Dhabi and, above all Dubai (DXB and DWC).
Those were very high frequency/high demand flights served sometimes by WB Aircrafts flying full which got wiped out from one day to another as soon as the blockade started.
I've had to get a full refund from Emirates at that time because I had a LHR - DXB - DOH multicity (because I was staying over in Dubai for 3 days for work) out of the blue landing on my mailbox.

These are NOT the only ones but certainly are the prime examples that the topic author is looking for:
PROVED High Demand Flights that are prevented due to CLEAR political reasons.
To wonder if a flight would work out between TLV and any Middle Eastern City does not fit because nobody would fly it anyway.
DOH - Brisbane does not fit because the only reason this does not go further (more than the actual frequency) is lack of demand
Any intra European Flight not occurring nowadays are purely due to High Speed Train Lines
etc
etc
etc
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:04 pm

MIA-Asia? Thailand-USA?
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:05 pm

B777LRF wrote:
shankly wrote:
CPT-LON for SAA

Dumped by the ANC to spite the DA led Western Cape. On some days in peak summer, BA send down 3 x 747's plus a 777 from LGW.....


Good one, nice demonstration of standard African politics.

Another left-field offering: BRU-PAR. There used to be multiple daily services from either end, but for political reasons it was decided to build a HST line connecting the two. Not a single flight left these days. PAR-LON almost the same, with a tunnel chucked in for good measure.

SN BA operates flights between BRU and CDG - just check either the SN BA website or a travel site like momondo.

Just as KLM flies several flights from BRU to AMS daily to feed theKLM/Delta long haul networks, so does SN BA from CDG, with an A320 indeed! I do agree with the poster above that no-one originating in Paris and aiming to get to central Brussels should consider the flight option, but someone from Paris flying to somewhere in Africa served better or exclusively by SN BA certainly would. Actually, with the monopoly pricing policy "enjoyed" by Thalys, it might soon be cheaper (but longer) to fly! LOL! European international high speed train tickets are now outrageously expensive
 
bhxalex
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:08 pm

FlyRow wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
Doha-Brisbane?
Not necessarily super large cities, but a route QR is fighting to start and up there as the biggest hole in their network.


And they don't fly there due too the terrible relations between Qatar and Australia?


'Politics' doesn't mean terrible relations. Bilateral agreements restrict this route, this is a political issue but as far as I know there's not bad relations between Australia and Qatar. Not to mention they serve SYD, MEL, PER, ADL & CBR.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Largest unserved city pairs due to politics

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:15 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
Also kiev-moscow served by many companies

Care to list the companies providing non-stop flights please?

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