x1234
Topic Author
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:41 am

How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!? I assume there is enough demand for a AMS-MIA flight. Or is the Miami market too dominated by OneWorld for SkyTeam to make an entrance and they just send the traffic on DL via ATL!? I know the used to operate the flight in the past. I noticed they launched Las Vegas this year, Miami must be higher yielding than Las Vegas as there's actual business traffic to Miami (cruises, Latin America, etc.)
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:42 am

Because they don’t see the need.
 
FlyingHollander
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:44 am

KLM DOES serve MIA, albeit seasonally.

x1234 wrote:
Miami must be higher yielding than Las Vegas as there's actual business traffic to Miami (cruises, Latin America, etc.)


And how would cruises and Latin America generate business traffic for KLM?
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
by738
Posts: 2951
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:56 am

maybe its in a Delta clause for connections
 
76er
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:08 pm

One word: Yields. There is more money to be made elsewhere, it is as simple as that.
 
User avatar
SQ789
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:31 pm

But AF still serves MIA.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm

FlyingHollander wrote:
KLM DOES serve MIA, albeit seasonally.

x1234 wrote:
Miami must be higher yielding than Las Vegas as there's actual business traffic to Miami (cruises, Latin America, etc.)


And how would cruises and Latin America generate business traffic for KLM?


I think the thread title needs to be changed to "How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami year-round?"
 
A388
Posts: 7839
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:45 pm

As mentioned already, KL does fly to MIA but seasonally. As to having a business case to MIA because of Latin America, where is that business case? AA is too dominant on that market with their big hub in MIA and AV also has a big presence their from MIA. What presence does the SkyTeam Alliance have in MIA? Practically none. KL will be better off in ATL for connections to Latin America through the DL hub in ATL. Sky Team has so far been weak to Latin America, connection wise. However, KL does fly to the big cities in South America themselves (BOG, GRU, EZE, SCL,LIM,UIO, PBM etc).

A388
 
eal
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:51 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:52 pm

As others have said KLM does serve Miami but seasonally, they have no need to serve Miami year round given their own expansive LatAm network and the large presence of their sister airline AF in Miami, it also should be noted that MIA is served year round from AMS by TUI so it's not like the market is underserved either
 
Jetty
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:03 pm

x1234 wrote:
Miami must be higher yielding than Las Vegas as there's actual business traffic to Miami (cruises, Latin America, etc.)

The Dutch like cruises way less than the average westerner; KL itself has a expansive network in Latin America from AMS allowing for 1-stop connections to everywhere in South-America without transferring in MIA.
A388 wrote:
Sky Team has so far been weak to Latin America, connection wise. However, KL does fly to the big cities in South America themselves (BOG, GRU, EZE, SCL,LIM,UIO, PBM etc).

Copa, GOL, Aerolineas Argentinas and Aeromexico provide good connections.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:12 pm

They've come and gone through the years. Very frustrating actually from our local perspective. This is the third time I believe KLM has flown to Miami after discontinuing service but they've reduced current service to seasonal.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:22 pm

A388 wrote:
As mentioned already, KL does fly to MIA but seasonally. As to having a business case to MIA because of Latin America, where is that business case? AA is too dominant on that market with their big hub in MIA and AV also has a big presence their from MIA. What presence does the SkyTeam Alliance have in MIA? Practically none. KL will be better off in ATL for connections to Latin America through the DL hub in ATL. Sky Team has so far been weak to Latin America, connection wise. However, KL does fly to the big cities in South America themselves (BOG, GRU, EZE, SCL,LIM,UIO, PBM etc).

A388


AA is no more dominant in MIA as KL is in AMS and AF is in CDG. These are airline hubs, simply put and how they operate. KL flies AMS-MIA seasonally. AF is year round. AA doesn't fly MIA-AMS.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 pm

KLM complains about MIA but BA, IB, LH, SWISS and Virgin seem to have made it work for decades, so why is KLM different ? KLM flies to many US cities yearly.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:32 pm

A388 wrote:
Sky Team has so far been weak to Latin America, connection wise.

A388


Excuse me !!

Skyteam weak to Latin America.....from where?

1. Skyteam's AF/KLM is a leading carrier in EU-Latin America traffic - see this 2014 article. Sorry for the date, but the principles have not changed much since.
"The clear leaders are Air France-KLM, with a 22% share of seats, followed by IAG with 19%. The Lufthansa Group is pushed into fourth place by TAP Portugal, reflecting the strength of the latter’s Brazilian network. The European Big Three have 48% between them".

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ges-187145

2. Skyteam has no interest what-so-ever in MIA as a stop for its EU-Latin America services.

3. Miami plays no role in Europe-Latin America (possibly smaller destinations in Central America).
However.........remember Skyteam/KLM is opening routes such as AMS-Liberia in Costa Rica 4x weekly with B789 this winter, in addition to operating 6x weekly AMS-Cartagena on B789.

Image
 
Jetty
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:41 pm

jfk777 wrote:
KLM complains about MIA but BA, IB, LH, SWISS and Virgin seem to have made it work for decades, so why is KLM different ? KLM flies to many US cities yearly.

BA and IB profit from the AA hub. The others from more local tourist demand. Dutch people mostly go to the Dutch Caribbean islands when on a westbound tropical holiday.
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:45 pm

I think there could be some effects on their caribbean destinations if they boost capacity and goes year-round.
 
x1234
Topic Author
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:46 pm

flyinghollander, I mean't that Miami is the business centre of the Americas for finance, trade, etc. Also TUI Netherlands doesn't fly AMS-MIA right now.
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:49 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
they've reduced current service to seasonal.

Not true. Current service was always seasonal.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Blerg
Posts: 2012
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:51 pm

I see that AMS-MEX is operated two times per day, maybe that is how KL covers Latin America? Isn't connecting via US a hassle anyway and it requires a transit visa?
 
FlyingHollander
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:54 pm

Jetty wrote:
The Dutch like cruises way less than the average westerner

Also, cruise travel is split between MIA and FLL. And the one cruise line that has a higher proportion of Dutch, Holland America, sails from FLL, not MIA.

It is not uncommon for my father to (dis)embark in Fort Lauderdale. I would say 2/3 of the time he flies to/from FLL (most recently via PHL and DTW) and only 1/3 of the time to/from MIA (most recently via CDG and FRA). Of the 800+ crew only about 5 get to fly business for long-haul. All the others fly economy on whoever is cheapest, there doesn't seem to be any loyalty to a particular airline. They don't fly LCC's though.

The Dutch aren't known for splurging, so Dutch cruise passengers will likely book flights similarly.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:54 pm

I seem to remember that years ago MIA was served by MP on their behalf?..
 
FlyingHollander
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:02 pm

x1234 wrote:
flyinghollander, I mean't that Miami is the business centre of the Americas for finance, trade, etc. Also TUI Netherlands doesn't fly AMS-MIA right now.

This may be the case for intra-(Latin)America, but that is of no/little interest for AMS, KLM or Europe for that matter. Miami just doesn't have the same role to Europe as it does to Latin America.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
User avatar
ojjunior
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:32 pm

A388 wrote:
However, KL does fly to the big cities in South America themselves (BOG, GRU, EZE, SCL,LIM,UIO, PBM etc)

+GIG
+FOR
 
dcajet
Posts: 3927
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 pm

x1234 wrote:
flyinghollander, I mean't that Miami is the business centre of the Americas for finance, trade, etc. Also TUI Netherlands doesn't fly AMS-MIA right now.


The above statement does not hold true for deep South America (Argentina, Brazil & Chile). It may be so for the Caribbean, Central and Northern South America countries.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:13 pm

jfk777 wrote:
KLM complains about MIA but BA, IB, LH, SWISS and Virgin seem to have made it work for decades, so why is KLM different ? KLM flies to many US cities yearly.


Maybe because they face competition on this route from TUI while on a lot of other American destinations KLM is the only airline serving it from Amsterdam. Miami doesn't see much business traffic from the Netherlands, it's mostly a tourist destination. Tourists are more likely to fly TUI instead of KLM.

Besides, KLM does serve Miami year-round one-stop through their partner Air France.
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2083
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:05 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
I seem to remember that years ago MIA was served by MP on their behalf?..


At the time MP was an independent airline with their own network. Though they were eventually acquired by KLM (after which their pax ops were discontinued), I don't believe they ever flew on behalf of KLM.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:41 am

Pretty sure I’ve sent fuelers to a KLM A330 in Miami...

They fly AMS-MIA in the winter.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:26 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I seem to remember that years ago MIA was served by MP on their behalf?..


At the time MP was an independent airline with their own network. Though they were eventually acquired by KLM (after which their pax ops were discontinued), I don't believe they ever flew on behalf of KLM.

Martijn


They actually DID fly for KL, at one given time or another including to San Francisco, Vancouver and maybe San Diego too?
 
Jetty
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:46 pm

Miami wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
they've reduced current service to seasonal.

Not true. Current service was always seasonal.

Both not true. KL MIA flights are bookable for this december. As are DL MCO flights btw, only TPA is seasonal.
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:07 pm

Jetty wrote:
Miami wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
they've reduced current service to seasonal.

Not true. Current service was always seasonal.

Both not true. KL MIA flights are bookable for this december. As are DL MCO flights btw, only TPA is seasonal.


What are you talking about? I said KLM started off seasonal and has stayed that way this entire time.

Also, flights are bookable from October 27.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Apprentice
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:51 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:13 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I seem to remember that years ago MIA was served by MP on their behalf?..


At the time MP was an independent airline with their own network. Though they were eventually acquired by KLM (after which their pax ops were discontinued), I don't believe they ever flew on behalf of KLM.

Martijn


Congrats! Outstanding memory!
It finished some years ago (around 2007.) when last B767 -3, with plenty of flight hours on their history, stop flying to many places
Where are this planes now? Bought by Eastern Airlines?

(Thanks God, A Mechanic)
Rgds
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
76er
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: How come KLM doesn't fly to Miami!?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:32 pm

Apprentice wrote:
Where are this planes now?


I think most of the ex MP763s were scrapped as they ran out of airframe hours.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: akb88, jetblueguy22, Turnhouse1, Vladex, Yflyer and 16 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos