f4f3a
Topic Author
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:18 pm

Was it a mistake for Norwegian not to have a lie flat business class product in their planes ? If they could have done this and undercut the competition
Would they be in a stronger position?
 
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Lemieux
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:28 pm

Short answer: no.

Long answer: Lie flats increase cost, and as a low cost carrier, cutting cost is key. Also, lie flats take up space that could be used for additional recliner seats like they currently have.
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LAXintl
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 pm

Lie flats take up space. Would Norwegian be able to charge high enough fares to cover the space required for less seats?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
c933103
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Lemieux wrote:
Short answer: no.

Long answer: Lie flats increase cost, and as a low cost carrier, cutting cost is key. Also, lie flats take up space that could be used for additional recliner seats like they currently have.

AirAsia X seems to be able to offer lie flat seats on low cost flights in a way that make sense to their business
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Ishrion
Posts: 879
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:47 pm

c933103 wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
Short answer: no.

Long answer: Lie flats increase cost, and as a low cost carrier, cutting cost is key. Also, lie flats take up space that could be used for additional recliner seats like they currently have.

AirAsia X seems to be able to offer lie flat seats on low cost flights in a way that make sense to their business


However, they only have 12 seats on their A330s. To make up for it, they run a super dense 3-3-3 configuration with 365 seats in economy.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1669
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:14 pm

Last week I happened to be going through OAK when three Norwegian 787s were at the gates. Definitely not the lie flat seat crowd.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
Short answer: no.

Long answer: Lie flats increase cost, and as a low cost carrier, cutting cost is key. Also, lie flats take up space that could be used for additional recliner seats like they currently have.

AirAsia X seems to be able to offer lie flat seats on low cost flights in a way that make sense to their business


And doesn’t AirAsiaX lose tons of money ?
 
juliuswong
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:27 pm

phxa340 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
Short answer: no.

Long answer: Lie flats increase cost, and as a low cost carrier, cutting cost is key. Also, lie flats take up space that could be used for additional recliner seats like they currently have.

AirAsia X seems to be able to offer lie flat seats on low cost flights in a way that make sense to their business


And doesn’t AirAsiaX lose tons of money ?

Not really. They have been in profit for past seven consecutive quarters. Their fall in profit recently was due to forex exchange which they couldnt do much as Ringgit Malaysia took a beating recently.
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jfk777
Posts: 6973
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:14 am

Norwegian offer 46 inches in their "Premium" cabin on the 787, their market is more Premium Economy then Business Class.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:15 am

Norwegian offer 46 inches in their "Premium" cabin on the 787, their market is more Premium Economy then Business Class.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2857
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:08 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Was it a mistake for Norwegian not to have a lie flat business class product in their planes ? If they could have done this and undercut the competition
Would they be in a stronger position?


No it was not a mistake, at the price point they are competing with other airlines W products and in many ways they are better. Where DY did go wrong is the food, I have had some okay meals and some amazingly dire meals on my flights with them in premium. If they spent a couple of dollars more they could have offered a more premium meal service.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:33 pm

c933103 wrote:
AirAsia X seems to be able to offer lie flat seats on low cost flights in a way that make sense to their business


But that's a whole different market. In Asia they're a very renowned airline and their service is pretty much on par with legacy airlines. Norwegian is very different, offering a lower service level on purpose so they can be cheaper. After all, service costs money and the way to save money is to cut back on service. AirAsia suits the Asian market, Norwegian suits the European/American market.

jetwet1 wrote:
Where DY did go wrong is the food, I have had some okay meals and some amazingly dire meals on my flights with them in premium. If they spent a couple of dollars more they could have offered a more premium meal service.


However the reason they don't offer better meals is obvious, they don't need it. As you said, a more premium meal would cost a couple of dollars more so in order to earn that money back they need to make their tickets more expensive. They don't want to do that as it would deteriorate their market position. So they settle for a slightly worse but cheaper meal, it's a way to keep their ticket price low which is their ultimate goal.

If it comes to meals, Norwegian has it all balanced out. Certainly in Economy, they make sure to let their customers know the costs of a meal. Unlike other airlines, meals aren't included by default on Norwegian. When making a booking, you get presented a list of meals and you can choose which meal you want. Be careful as all of these meals cost € 35 which comes on top of the ticket price. There is also an option for no meal which is free. Norwegian knows like no other airline that meals cost money and they need to earn that money back. And because you get to pick your meal at the point of booking, for each flight they have a list of meals and they load exactly the quantities ordered for that flight. There are no spare meals and everyone gets exactly the meal they ordered at booking.

Each time I've flown Norwegian I've opted for no meal which is easily doable. Have a good meal at the airport before you leave and bring a couple of sandwiches from home on board for during the flight. A meal at the airport is easily cheaper than a meal on board.

Over all, Norwegian is very much aware that service costs money and that's the reason they offer as little service as possible. That's the reason they can be cheap.
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:25 pm

Don’t know about lie flat seats but I wish they’d get rid of the leather ones
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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jetwet1
Posts: 2857
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: No flat bed on Norwegian

Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:51 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetwet1 wrote:
Where DY did go wrong is the food, I have had some okay meals and some amazingly dire meals on my flights with them in premium. If they spent a couple of dollars more they could have offered a more premium meal service.


However the reason they don't offer better meals is obvious, they don't need it. As you said, a more premium meal would cost a couple of dollars more so in order to earn that money back they need to make their tickets more expensive. They don't want to do that as it would deteriorate their market position. So they settle for a slightly worse but cheaper meal, it's a way to keep their ticket price low which is their ultimate goal.

If it comes to meals, Norwegian has it all balanced out. Certainly in Economy, they make sure to let their customers know the costs of a meal. Unlike other airlines, meals aren't included by default on Norwegian. When making a booking, you get presented a list of meals and you can choose which meal you want. Be careful as all of these meals cost € 35 which comes on top of the ticket price. There is also an option for no meal which is free. Norwegian knows like no other airline that meals cost money and they need to earn that money back. And because you get to pick your meal at the point of booking, for each flight they have a list of meals and they load exactly the quantities ordered for that flight. There are no spare meals and everyone gets exactly the meal they ordered at booking.



Let me be clear, I am a fan of DY's, I have used the premium product a lot over the last few years, however, I think you are wrong when it comes to the food in the premium cabin, if it comes down to VS premium economy or DY's premium cabin, if the prices are the same I am on a VS flight, simply because it's a 50/50 shot at having a semi edible meal on the plane, as this is a situation that is becoming more and more common (the VS-DY pricing) and a personal not I get to earn DL miles and status if I fly VS, there needs to be something that separates the two. Between LAX-LGW/CDG over the last 2 years, I have probably spent (doing quick mental math) about $30k on DY, this year I have flown them exactly zero times, i've flown LAX-LHR on VS 3 times, twice for work and once for pleasure, work paid for work, I paid for the other, on the work trips I was in Upper, however, I can very happily sleep in DY's premium as for me the seat is more comfortable than the Upper suite on the 789 (to short), again, it's a personal thing for sure and I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with you.

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